04/23/2007
Vatican Official Brands Gay Marriage "Evil"
The Vatican is really angry that Italy is considering giving rights to gays.
The latest in their litany of condemnations comes from Archbishop Angelo Amato, secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, who today slammed the media for what the Vatican perceives as abetting social advances it calls "terrorism with a human face":
"In an address to chaplains, Amato said newspapers and television bulletins often seemed like 'a perverse film about evil.' He denounced 'evils that remain almost invisible' because the media presented them as 'expression of human progress.' He listed these as abortion clinics, which he called 'slaughterhouses of human beings,' euthanasia, and 'parliaments of so-called civilized nations where laws contrary to the nature of the human being are being promulgated, such as the approval of marriage between people of the same sex ...'"
Amato's comments were a step beyond remarks made by Pope Benedict in mid-March that the church's position on gay marriage was "not negotiable."
More recently, Archbishop Angelo Bagnasco of Genoa compared gay rights to incest and pedophilia. Shortly thereafter the cathedral in Genoa was tagged with graffiti declaring "Shame on you Bagnasco" and the archbishop was placed under police protection.
In March, thousands rallied near the Vatican in support of the Italian gay rights measure causing such a fuss at the Pope's address. A group opposing it is planning a major rally in Rome next month.
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Posted 5:50 PM EST by Andy Towle in Gay Marriage, Gay Rights, Italy, News, Pope Benedict, Religion, Rome | Permalink
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Speaking of slaughterhouses of human beings, let's not forget the Vatican's support of Hitler and the Nazi party, shall we?
Posted by: peterparker | Apr 23, 2007 5:55:59 PM
Puhleaze, half of the clergy are gay. I can't recall where it was that I read a story about a guy who met a priest at the Vatican who was flambouyant as ever (even pushing aside a fellow black priest saying "out of the way Naomi"). I'm sure it was exagerrated, but with all the hoopla around the closet case Evangelists and such, as well as the countless closeted Republican homophobic politicians, a lot of the homophobia facing the gay community is coming directly from closeted, self loathing homosexuals. How did Bill Maher put it when Larry King asked him why this is? Oh yeah, "because Larry, the greatest love of all is hating oneself". Perfectly put...
Posted by: Cory | Apr 23, 2007 6:10:40 PM
A religion i don't practice in a country i don't live in, thinks i am evil... boo fucking hoo!
BTW: The Muslims don't like us much either.
Posted by: MARK | Apr 23, 2007 6:10:44 PM
hello andy ....
'Vatican Official Brands Gay Marriage "Evil"' -- presumably, that sounds better than calling the sacking of a constantinople a barbecue.
peace.
Posted by: ricardo | Apr 23, 2007 6:19:59 PM
“Slavery itself, considered as such in its essential nature, is not contrary to the natural and divine law, and there can be several just titles of slavery and these are referred to by approved theologians and commentators of the sacred canons. … It is not contrary to the natural and divine law for a slave to be sold, bought, and exchanged or given.”
This missive was composed for Pope Pius IX by the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith. This is the same “congregation” of Vatican bureaucrats who recently offered up the admonishment to Catholic politicians about supporting any type of legal recognition for same-sex relationships–everything from marriage to civil unions to domestic partnership statutes.
Says Ratzinger, “To give the support of one’s vote to such harmful legislative text for the common good of society is a gravely immoral act,” according to ZENIT [an international news agency].
As I understand it, natural and divine law is not something that can be changed by man. It is deity-given and thus immutable to the whims of man. The same group of celibate, dress-wearing patriarchs who says that it’s perfectly okay for people to be “sold, bought, and exchanged or given” is the same group calling the inclusion of same-sex relationships as legally recognized, a “gravely immoral act.”
I don’t know about anybody else, but I don’t think that a group of people who condone and support the buying and selling of people should be pontificating about gravely immoral acts. The fact that these celibate, dress-wearing freaks feel it perfectly okay lecture about the morality or immorality of human sexuality, while hiding for generations the abuse inflicted upon children by their membership, is an example of the deepest hypocrisy I can imagine.
Fuck them and the dresses they rode in on.
Posted by: djsaab | Apr 23, 2007 6:51:59 PM
twisted shits
Posted by: Chux | Apr 23, 2007 7:43:22 PM
Pope “Hitler Youth” condemned gay marriage today in Rome. After the announcement the festivities started with a treasure bath where the Pope was bathed in gold confiscated from the ignorant. His assistant Father Hottie McHot-Hot joined Pope Hate Monger at his soiree. The Entire College of Cardinals joined His Hatefullness in bobbing for altar boys. Then all in attendance played shatter the Ten Commandments bingo in the Vatican basement Jello shots and ethyl chloride were served as sacraments.
Posted by: ggreen | Apr 23, 2007 8:10:53 PM
I can think of no group more irrelevant than the Papacy -- *especially* on matters of sex and relationships.
With all due respect to the visually impaired -- I wouldn't seek advice on how to paint from the blind.
I could just as easily argue that celibacy -- the refusal to manifest the potential of God's gift of sexuality -- is one of the more abhorrent "evils" in the world.
Posted by: CF | Apr 23, 2007 8:24:09 PM
The blind know more about painting than Pope Benny Prada knows about life.
Posted by: David Ehrenstein | Apr 23, 2007 8:56:09 PM
Fuck the Pope and the Archbishop he rode in on.
Posted by: Bobby | Apr 23, 2007 8:58:58 PM
Thank you Djsab for posting that. DIGNITY and other such catholic gay brothers and sisters need to wake up and juust toss the entire baby out with the bath water.
Mark true but don't forget orthedox jews do not like us either....read a few threads down. conservative jews also recently allowed for synagougues to choose REPARITIVE THERAPY (drugs and in the olden days shock treatment) in dealing with gay jews.
All 3 monotheistic religions treat us like crap though they themselves are crap fairytales.
Liberal members of all 3 are to blame in that their refusal to toss the crap fairytale enables (they are enabelers) the milue / the environment for these wakos to continue
Posted by: pacificoceanboy | Apr 23, 2007 10:09:16 PM
Is it that suprising?
Posted by: FanGirlHater | Apr 23, 2007 10:18:46 PM
Whoa, on one side I'm called a Fag and a Fag enabler by the Phelps clan and on the other side I have my friend POB calling me a fairytale enabler and saying that I, and people like me, are to blame for fundamentalist hate.
FEEL the love.
Posted by: Zeke | Apr 23, 2007 10:31:41 PM
zeke you know I love you
love is caring for a person despite their differences from ones self
:-)
Think about this though, if all liberal religous people gave up on their respective faiths then the fundies would be seen as even more marginalized, crazy, etc because they would have less of a public soap box.
Posted by: pacificoceanboy | Apr 23, 2007 11:11:39 PM
Cory: the story about the flaming cardinal and the pope's red shoes is here:
http://www.out.com/detail.asp?id=21655
Posted by: John C | Apr 23, 2007 11:12:02 PM
The Vatican is unable to contemplate the love of God. I think there is nothing more clear than that.
Well, maybe God's creations and desires.
It is unfortunate that so many continue to look to the Pope for guidance, as a voice close to God, when he is neither a reflection of divinity nor a person of understanding, compassion and insight. The true Pope would walk amongst the people, know their hardships, and understand the reality of modern life.
Posted by: Rob (lrdarystar) | Apr 23, 2007 11:22:36 PM
perhaps the catholic church should clean up its own house before it starts making attempts to clean up mine.
Posted by: sean | Apr 23, 2007 11:35:31 PM
Well I suppose that "evil" is a new name for me!? I have never been called evil before, but coming from the Vatican, I will wear the badge with the same pride that Hester Prynne found in wearing her scarlet letter! Let the one without sin cast the first stone. Perhaps that was a scripture that our dear Vatican missed?
Posted by: RB | Apr 23, 2007 11:47:20 PM
Exactly. The Catholic Church (as represented by the conservative Ratzinger) engages in the same group-based prejudice that informs any ethnocentric or similar prejudice - discrimination without regard to the individual. Many citations of the new testament could strongly refute the current position of the Benedict led Catholic church.
As an ex-Catholic, its painful (but also predictable) to see the Church choose what types of scripture to apply to its judgements, and which not too (the Bible is hopelessley contradictory anyway - new & old testament are cut from different cloths).
At the end of the day this is politics. Ratzinger is a conservative, and is attempting to suppresss moderates within the Church. Many moderates are panicking - noting that Italy, and Europe as a whole are quite adrift from the moral vision espoused by the current pope.
Many self-professed Catholics care little for the pope's speeches and grand moral epiphanies. They might go to Church, but they often practice a more pragmatic, liberal way of life.
In the US, the (generally Catholic) Hispanic community is also going this way, influenced strongly by a powerful secular influence in American mainstream society. Religion it seems, becomes much less of a priority as affluence increases.
Posted by: Peter | Apr 24, 2007 12:26:24 AM
Yeah POB, and the fundamentalist Christians tell me I should just give up my sexuality so that I stop giving credibility to the radical homa-sek-shul agenda (what ever the heck that means).
With all due respect, I would appreciate it if they would keep their noses out of my sexuality and I would appreciate it if you would keep yours out of my personal faith.
You say you love me but you don't seem to respect me very much. Frankly, I'd rather be respected by a friend than loved. Some of the comments that you make here are not very respectful of me and other open minded, progressive people of faith who comment here. I don't push my faith on anyone and I don't judge the faith, or lack thereof, of anyone who treats people with kindness, compassion and respect. As long as I treat you and others with this same kindness, compassion and respect I can't understand why I should be negatively judged for my faith; EVEN if it IS a fairy tale.
I honestly understand how you feel about people of faith. I REALLY do. I also understand your frustration with the terrible things that have been done in the name of faith by "people of faith" but blaming liberal Christians for propping up the fundamentalists, when we fight them at every turn, is offensive and insulting.
I can handle your calling people of faith wackos and fairy tale believers. I laugh that off and don't take offense because you might very well be right. But when you start blaming some of us for the evils perpetrated by others, then I draw the line.
Posted by: Zeke | Apr 24, 2007 12:33:24 AM
Actualy zeke the thought wasn't original to me but rather something I found (and it made sense) on a website refuting pascal's wager.
For those that don't know pascal's wager is basicaly it is better to believe than not just in case said god does exist, who does it hurt.
After the site tore into pascal's wager via philosophy, logic, etc ( it really does have a lot of faults that philosophers of pascal's own day pointed out) the site mentioned how the non fundie believers of all faiths perpetuate the fundies. that if liberals turned away then society would be better able to defuse the whole thing and relegate the fundies to the nut farms.
I know I come off overzealously (a non believing zealot) and do appologize to you if my unkind words hurt and or offended you personaly . Everybody else not so much.
:-)
Posted by: pacificoceanboy | Apr 24, 2007 12:53:41 AM
Pacificoceanboy and Zeke : I've read both your posts and think you both have good points to make. I have mixed feelings about the subject, so I agree with you two equally. But, whatever the case, it's nice to see two guys disagree amicably for a change.
Posted by: MJ | Apr 24, 2007 1:53:14 AM
The church is always setting impossibly high moral standards for everyone, and the terminology they use is typically arcane and highly technical so as to make it all as clear as pea soup--as will probably be the case here. The laity almost never takes these messages to heart, particularly in Italy. Likewise, it appears they are in a panic because they are losing control of things in their own backyard.
Posted by: anon | Apr 24, 2007 2:39:48 AM
Pacificoceanboy - "Mark, true but don't forget orthodox jews do not like us either....read a few threads down. conservative jews also recently allowed for synagougues to choose REPARITIVE THERAPY (drugs and in the olden days shock treatment) in dealing with gay jews."
Not so fast POB - I'd like to put in a good word for the Jews. Do you believe everything you read in the press? I'll bet you know that we Jews don't have a "pope" or central doctrinal comittee. Any rabbi can say anything s/he wants (kinda like Islam - any mulla can issue a "fatwa".)
Yes, Orthodox Jews don't like us - some hate us - but as a matter of fact there is a discussion going on throughout Judaism (not the extremists in Jerusalem), about what exactly is prohibited in Leviticus: all gay sex or just male anal sex. Personally, I think the orthodox are full of it, in many ways, but they can - and will - believe what they want. Conservative and reform Jews are free to make up their own minds on matters of doctrine.
As a matter of fact, here is a quote from the conclusions of a survey (North American Jewish Data Bank, Center for Judaic Studies and Contemporary Jewish Life
University of Connecticut) of conservative Jewish clergy. "Reports in the press characterized one of the teshuvot as advocating “reparative therapy,” ..." "The notion of advocating reparative therapy is WIDELY REJECTED, with just 6% of the clerical leaders in favor and as many as 83% opposed. On another similar question, the vast majority rejected the idea that, ”With reparative therapy, many homosexuals can change their sexual orientation.” In like fashion, a wide margin (77% agree, 7% disagree) agrees that “homosexuality is in-born, not chosen voluntarily.”
Posted by: dave | Apr 24, 2007 6:04:15 AM
It must be so gailing for the Pope in the Vatican surrounded by all that history from a time when the Pope and the Catholic order ruled the lives of the plebians.
How dare the unwashed masses decide how the govern themselves. If the Pope, along with most other 'religous leaders', had there way, we would all be living under various theocratic dictorships!
Posted by: Evil European | Apr 24, 2007 6:38:02 AM