08/28/2007
Idaho Senator Larry Craig's Arrest Report, Plus Statesman Probe
The Smoking Gun has posted a copy of Larry Craig's arrest report, filed by Sgt. Dave Karsnia (above, left).
Here's a bit: "At 1217 hours, I saw Craig swipe his hand under the stall divider for a few seconds. The swipe went in the direction from the front (door side) of the stall back towards the back wall. His palm was facing towards the ceiling as he guided it all the stall divider. I was only able to see the tips of his fingers on my side of the stall divider. Craig swiped his hand in the same motion a third time for a few seconds. I could see that it was Craig's left hand due to the position of his thumb. I could also see Craig had a gold ring on his ring finger as his hand was on my side of the stall divider."
Craig claims his actions were "misconstrued."
Craig's arrest has prompted the Idaho Statesman to release the findings of a probe it conducted after blogger Mike Rogers exposed Craig's secret gay life last October.
"In an interview on May 14, Craig told the Idaho Statesman he'd never engaged in sex with a man or solicited sex with a man. The Craig interview was the culmination of a Statesman investigation that began after a blogger accused Craig of homosexual sex in October. Over five months, the Statesman examined rumors about Craig dating to his college days and his 1982 pre-emptive denial that he had sex with underage congressional pages. The most serious finding by the Statesman was the report by a professional man with close ties to Republican officials. The 40-year-old man reported having oral sex with Craig at Washington's Union Station, probably in 2004. The Statesman also spoke with a man who said Craig made a sexual advance toward him at the University of Idaho in 1967 and a man who said Craig "cruised" him for sex in 1994 at the REI store in Boise. The Statesman also explored dozens of allegations that proved untrue, unclear or unverifiable."
The Idaho Statesman has also demanded Craig give his constituents an explanation.
Recently
Larry Craig Releases Statement, Steps Down from Romney Campaign [tr]
GOP Idaho Senator Larry Craig in Lewd Conduct Men's Room Arrest [tr]
Posted 11:40 AM EST by Andy in Crime, Idaho, Larry Craig, News | Permalink
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Said it before and I'll say it again. There are more republicans in American closets than clothes hangers.
Posted by: Marco | Aug 28, 2007 11:48:39 AM
No Larry, dahling, your actions were misconscrewed... bless you Sgt. Karsnia!
Posted by: the queen | Aug 28, 2007 11:59:06 AM
Larry Craig, meet Bob Allen. Bob, this is Larry. I think you two will really hit it off, you have so much in common.
Posted by: davitydave | Aug 28, 2007 12:27:38 PM
Perhaps he was signaling that he was out of toilet paper...?
BWA! HA! HA! HA!
I smell... REHAB!!!!!
Posted by: Rad | Aug 28, 2007 12:42:30 PM
Cute Cop!! I can see why they use him as bait!
Posted by: Chad | Aug 28, 2007 12:48:48 PM
HOT COP!!!
Posted by: David Ehrenstein | Aug 28, 2007 12:48:54 PM
Hate to be off-topic, but am I the only one who's transfixed by the blonde dude on the cover of the DNA magazine shown in the ad?
Holy crap. That's super-hot even compared to other DNA models.
Wow.
Posted by: Brian | Aug 28, 2007 12:49:35 PM
What disturbs me about stories like this is that many gay people relish it when gay republicans get exposed in this kind of manner and we seem to approve of the methods in which this occurs. An example of that would be "The Queen's" comment "bless you Sgt. Karsnia!". We have to remember that the motives of those seeking out these men to expose them isn't to expose gay hypocrits, but to catch gay men in general and punish them by humiliation in some manner for being gay itself. We really need to be careful that our support of outing hypocrits isn't hurting ourselves in some manner. A closeted politician who supports gay rights in every way could be targeted in the same manner.
Posted by: Patrick | Aug 28, 2007 12:50:23 PM
You know what, Sgt. Dave Karsnia? Don't be trotting your hot ass around my airport bathroom stall and then act all police-like when a closeted, repressed Jesus freak wants some. Seriously, how cute is he? If I was the Senator's attorney, I'd pack the jury with gay men of the horniest kind and just be like, "Can you blame a brother for trying to tap this?" INNOCENT! P.S. I am in no way condoning anonymous sex in public - conservative republican lurkers, this means you!
Posted by: Joe | Aug 28, 2007 12:50:35 PM
Sorry Brian - I asked DNA not to use that photo of me.
I equate this story with the whole "ex-gay" movement - you can deny your innate desires all your want but they won't go away.
Posted by: ATLSteve | Aug 28, 2007 12:54:59 PM
"We have to remember that the motives of those seeking out these men to expose them isn't to expose gay hypocrits, but to catch gay men in general and punish them by humiliation in some manner for being gay itself."
Uh, sorry to burst that bubble but the officer was not seeking out gay men in general to punish them for being gay - he was seeking out men attempting to break the law by having sex in public restrooms. Any gay man in the restroom that day for legitimate purposes was in no danger of arrest or humilation from anyone.
Posted by: John | Aug 28, 2007 12:59:21 PM
Like I said before, if Mayor Naugle in Ft. Lauderdale would just be honest with the people of his city, he would tell them that the REAL culprits he is targeting in his crusade against toilet sex is straight identified, homophobic heterosexually married men with children (like himself).
The fact of the matter is Larry Craig and Bob Allen are the REAL face of men who have sex in public restrooms, rest areas and parks.
Anyone who doubts this should check the arrest records in their local area.
Out, proud, openly gay people SELDOM seek sexual release in public restrooms.
Naugle fits the profile of the kind of man who does this to a T.
This is an inconvenient truth that homophobic conservatives and gay bashing fundamentalists seem unable, or unwilling, to face up to. In spite of that, almost daily, there is another example of a high profile, homophobic, conservative, fundamentalist windbag getting busted for seeking homosex, in an illegal way. Yet their talking points, and their hypocrisy, never wavers.
Posted by: Zeke | Aug 28, 2007 1:00:10 PM
John, EXACTLY!
You took the words out of my mouth.
I go into public restrooms all the time and I have never been threatened with arrest. Of course I don't proposition other men in the restroom for sex.
To say that these officers are there to punish and humiliate law abiding gay people is laughable.
Posted by: Zeke | Aug 28, 2007 1:06:04 PM
I agree with Patricks comments above but have just one more thought to add. I feel that it is karmic justice for people like Craig, Foley, and Bob Allen to get busted for this. They are the ones, along with their Party, that make being Gay a shameful thing that must be done anonymouosly. They are the ones that make society think that gay people are less than human. They are the ones who, through their stereotyping and fearmongering, prevent gay people who might be struggling with their sexuality from coming out into the light of day and accepting themselves. They have created the environment that is getting them busted at the moment. The MSP airport is full of bars where heteros can meet or hook up (in the privacy of their hotel of course), but the GOP has created an environment where there could never ever be a gay bar at the airport. Really, the main problem is the closet that they have created. If you are out, you can just go to a bar or use craigslist like everyone else.
Posted by: Chad | Aug 28, 2007 1:08:04 PM
Joe, I was thinking the same thing about Craig's defense.
Craig needs to drop the whole "it was a misunderstanding" crap and just say "Look, I am 100% straight, but jesus christ, did you see this guy, he was HOT, not even a straight man can resist trying to get a lil' sump'n sump'n from hot number like THAT!"
Posted by: Zeke | Aug 28, 2007 1:13:23 PM
Word to John and Zeke. The vast majority of out gays aren't dick trolling in public cans. It seems a lot of closet cases are, and in the case of Craig and Allen - fuck them. You can't fuck some of us from the sanctity of your closet, then turn around and royally fuck all of us with anti-gay legislation and get away with it.
Posted by: Marco | Aug 28, 2007 1:19:24 PM
To be fair, he could have been signalling that his stall was out of toilet paper.
Posted by: thin mint | Aug 28, 2007 1:26:54 PM
Oh dammit, somebody got to the joke before I did.
Posted by: thin mint | Aug 28, 2007 1:27:58 PM
John and Zeke, I never suggested that law abiding gay men are targeted for arrest. But the law in this situation is targeted against gay men exclusively. Solicitation of consentual sex in a public place where money is not involved shouldn't be a crime at all. The act of having the sex in a public place should be. If a cop catches two people having sex in a public place, gay or straight, then the arrest is justified. Soliciting sex, without an offer of payment, should not be a crime, and if it is we should have undercover female officers soliciting unpaid sex in bars and clubs and arresting the men who agree.
Posted by: Patrick | Aug 28, 2007 1:36:44 PM
Dare I add that the cop is cute?
Police entrapment has been a problem in many towns--essentially being the cop's word against a closeted gay man worried about losing his job and family--it's a speed trap for gays. A lot of guys have lost their jobs for "loitering" and other vague crimes simply as a way of putting $ in city coffers. It hardly ever gets to sex in public. A decade ago you could have been arrested for sitting on a park bench or standing still on a path, etc. Civil rights attorneys have slowly managed to narrow the definitions of a lot of crimes to actual solicitation of public sexual acts. It had gotten to the point where asking someone to come back to "my place" would lead to attempted sodomy charges. This has at least been undone, though in many places it is still unwise to ask for private sex in a public place--it could lead to attempted sexual assault charges for example.
However, Craig is hardly going to rely on civil rights lawyers in his case.
Posted by: anon (gmail.com) | Aug 28, 2007 1:43:29 PM
Most men, with justification, view anonymous sexual overtures in a public restroom as harassment. It's not remotely the same thing as flirting in a bar - it's a lot more like flashing.
There are men facing violence and imprisonment right now for being gay or for having gay sex. They are not remotely in the same position as a Senator who is being embarrassed for making a public nuisance of himself.
Posted by: thin mint | Aug 28, 2007 1:52:04 PM
So, anyway...cute cop!
Posted by: thin mint | Aug 28, 2007 1:53:22 PM
Patrick, please.
While it is true that some municipalities have used public solicitation laws to single out gay men, I hardly think Craig's recent flameout can be used to support your argument that all public solitation laws should be banned. Are you honestly telling me that I don't have the right to privacy while relieving myself in a public facility? I have to just stand there and take it while some perv comes on to me while checking out my junk? Hey, he isn't touching me, so what's the problem, right? That's insane.
Admittedly, the law can be abused. But that's just the way the law works. That's why we have jury trials, so people can use common sense when applying those laws.
Posted by: tservo | Aug 28, 2007 2:12:10 PM
"Most men, with justification, view anonymous sexual overtures in a public restroom as harassment. It's not remotely the same thing as flirting in a bar - it's a lot more like flashing."
I would agree with you, but it isn't actually flashing. There is a line that isn't crossed, usually. I would also remind you that what Craig did in his own stall was countered by the cop making his own foot gestures, in the cop's own words.
As far as flirting in a bar, men can and do go well beyond that and a woman could find the slightest bit of over attentiveness as harrassment as well.
My point is that this kind of police arrest has nothing to do with anyone being a Senator, the accused just happened to be one. The fact that police are arresting men in bathrooms for hand gestures has more to to with anti homosexual agendas. I don't approve of men hanging around restrooms to have sex with strangers, I actually think it is rather pathetic, but I would like the crime to be worthy of an arrest. An actual assault, solicitation of prostitution, flashing or a public sex act would be justifiable. Coming on to someone shouldn't be...unless the person can't take no for an answer.
Posted by: Patrick | Aug 28, 2007 2:13:35 PM
Closet cases like U.S. Senator Craig, Florida fuckwit Bob Allen, Ted Haggard, Bush’s evangelist bosom buddy (who admits that he inhales drugs but denies inhaling dick), and U.S. Rep. Mark Foley are all textbook examples of why the antigay practices of police agencies who try to entrap gay men are immoral and should be made illegal. I have no sympathy for these swine because each of them has supported antigay legislation and bigotry and each of them is in part responsible for every beating and murder that comes our way.
The political price they’ll pay for their wretched hypocrisy is their problem, but it becomes our problem when the cops go after us, no matter where it is, and violate our human right to sexuality and our rights as citizens. We have a right to be promiscuous (observing safe sex guidelines) and a right to pursue sexual liaisons where and when we can. It’s something straights take for granted and we should have the same privileges. Prudes and prigs who claim the police should be able to entrap and arrest us aren’t doing us any favors.
Posted by: Bill Perdue | Aug 28, 2007 2:14:40 PM
OMG...the cop is NOT that cute! And he looks borderline retarded! And he was participating in a sting to harrass and humiliate gay men! Sheesh!!!!!
While I certainly find a great deal of glee in the fact that a gay bashing Senator has been outed as a t-room troll, it is tempered by the fact that police in Minneapolis are engaged in a campaign to harrass and humiliate gay men. You guys who are supporting the police and condemning anyone for seeking sex in a public place forget that straight people also engage in sexual behavior in parks, on beaches, in parked cars, etc..., yet where are the stories about them being arrested? The answer is: they aren't arrested...the police simply give them a warning and let them go...while gay men get hauled off to jail and end up with their picture (or at the very least, their name) in the newspaper.
And let me also say that I agree with Patrick that solicitation of sex should not be a crime.
I'll cheer the outing of a gay bashing Senator...but I won't cheer the police for the way in which he was arrested.
Posted by: peterparker | Aug 28, 2007 2:14:41 PM
"Most men, with justification, view anonymous sexual overtures in a public restroom as harassment. It's not remotely the same thing as flirting in a bar - it's a lot more like flashing."
I would agree with you, but it isn't actually flashing. There is a line that isn't crossed, usually. I would also remind you that what Craig did in his own stall was countered by the cop making his own foot gestures, in the cop's own words.
As far as flirting in a bar, men can and do go well beyond that and a woman could find the slightest bit of over attentiveness as harrassment as well.
My point is that this kind of police arrest has nothing to do with anyone being a Senator, the accused just happened to be one. The fact that police are arresting men in bathrooms for hand gestures has more to to with anti homosexual agendas. I don't approve of men hanging around restrooms to have sex with strangers, I actually think it is rather pathetic, but I would like the crime to be worthy of an arrest. An actual assault, solicitation of prostitution, flashing or a public sex act would be justifiable. Coming on to someone shouldn't be...unless the person can't take no for an answer.
Posted by: Patrick | Aug 28, 2007 2:13:35 PM
#########################################
good point, BUT who better to suffer from the law that someone who publicly supports the law. he can do nothing now since he voted against laws protecting gays like himself. so good, as long as he is suffering from his laws, all is fine with me.
Posted by: johnosahon | Aug 28, 2007 2:44:59 PM
Once again gay men argue tooth and nail over some perceived right to engage in sex in a public bathroom. You don't. I have no sympathy for these guys and even less for out gay men who always want to wallow in the lowest aspect of the culture (I believe the term is toilet queen). Go home, plug in your computer and pick someone up. If your too old to know how, then call one of those hotlines, I'm sure they still have them. Solicitation of sex is a crime (and I personally agree). Grow up people. It's gross.
Posted by: Dezi | Aug 28, 2007 2:44:59 PM
Dezi, solicitation of sex is not a crime. Solicitation of sex for money is a crime. Having sex in a public place is a crime. Solicitation of gay sex was once a crime, and these public restroom sting operations seem to be the only recourse to keeping solicitation of gay sex as a crime. Preventing sex in public bathrooms can be achieved by making those who loiter there leave, or by arresting those who are actually engaging in sexual activity.
Posted by: Patrick | Aug 28, 2007 2:57:56 PM
well said Peter!
Posted by: bigggnasty | Aug 28, 2007 2:58:06 PM
This is why I just LOVE T-road,
I didn't have to go to a separate picture file, I didn't have to waste time scanning other sites. It is one stop shopping and a gift with purchase!
BTW, any Tea Room trade always asks for a KISS first. The police will hem and haw over identifying themselves, but none of them will kiss you. And KISSING AIN'T ILLEGAL!
Posted by: chandler in hollywood | Aug 28, 2007 2:58:23 PM
ok. Craig was charged with disorderly conduct and interference with privacy. My point is I don't have an issue with it even if he were not a senator.
If in 2007 you need to troll a toilet to get your rocks off then you accept whatever consequences that come with that.
You want to make it a "they only target gay men" issue, but the behavior is gross and disturbing. This is bottom of the barrell behavior and it needs to be eradicated. Instead of defending it we should talk among ourselves and with those who still engage in this behavior.
Posted by: Dezi | Aug 28, 2007 3:10:40 PM
Oh SPARE ME this entrapment bullshit! It's illegal to have sex in public places. Period. It's a crime to solicit sex in public places. It is against the frickin' law. It's not a crime if ONLY gay men do it. EVERYONE knows it's against the law and almost all gay men know undercover cops frequent heavy cruising areas to bust people. Gimme a break, kids. He wasn't targeted for anything other than the fact that he was trying to score a quick suck down between flights from a cute blondie. Not because he's gay or assumed to be gay or in a gay area. He wanted a Dip 'n Unzip in a crowded airport and that's wrong, people. Just wrong. Get your ass to a secluded adult bookstore, at least there you'd have a case for saying "Um, anyone who comes here pretty much gets some, Mr. Policeman - fuck off!" But you can't really make that point in an airport. I hear security there has been pretty tight these last few years.
Posted by: Joe | Aug 28, 2007 3:14:14 PM
Patrick, Please keep in mind: HE PLEAD GUILTY. This is not a case of some poor, unaware, unsuspecting young gay man innocently flirting with a cute guy and falling into some police entrapment nightmare. It was a perv, in a bathroom, poposing public sex, with an undercover police officer - and he plead GUILTY.
No sympathy.
Posted by: John | Aug 28, 2007 3:42:26 PM
For all this talk about protecting the rights of gay men, maybe some of you should go ask Craig and Allen if they think their rights as gay men have been violated. Ask them if they feel they were targeted because they are gay men.
The vast majority of men who have sex in public toilets don't self identify as gay. They would be VERY offended if you insinuated that they were gay. WE know that they are, at the least Bi, but THEY think of themselves as straight. The same delusional mindset that allows them to believe this lie is the very same mindset that causes most of these assholes to be virulently anti-gay in their every day lives.
So what some of you are defending here is not the right of gay people to express themselves or to find "dates" but the right of rabid homophobes to use men to get their rocks off on the side while playing straight and gay bashing when they get home to the wife and kids.
Using the argument that these men are doing nothing different than what straight people do is a straw man conflation of two totally unrelated scenarios. It just doesn't hold water.
Sorry, I don't see this as an issue of gay rights, gay oppression or an issue of freedom of expression. I don't like getting hit on in the bathroom of a gay bar much less in a bathroom at a park. Is anyone here thinking about the privacy rights of the people who are propositioned while trying to take a dump?
Sorry, I don't share the concerns of those here who see this as a violation of gay rights.
Posted by: Zeke | Aug 28, 2007 4:02:28 PM
The moral of the story is don't mess with the MN airport police 'cause they're fierce.
Another story involving Sgt. Karsnia is at http://greencycles.blogspot.com/
Posted by: the queen | Aug 28, 2007 4:35:24 PM
Zeke: I think you are making the mistake that whatever you don't like should be illegal. Laws have to be based on a rational need and not be either arbitrary or capricious. Likewise, under various due process and equal protection clauses, they need to be enforced equally. For example, if only black shoplifters were arrested it would be a violation of due process and equal protection. What I think needs to be made clear is that the boundary between criminal acts and "intent" has been used to specifically entrap gay men over the years. For example, for a long time it was illegal for men to discuss opera in NYC together in a public/non-academic setting because under NYPD policy this was considered "code" for soliciting sodomy. Now tell me if you would like that policy to come back into force.
Posted by: anon (gmail.com) | Aug 28, 2007 4:54:44 PM
that argument would make sense but for the fact that only gay men are going to have sex in public bathrooms (and i imagine lesbians to some extent). Because you don't know about arrests of straight people having public sex doesn't mean it does not occur. You just don't know about it.
The fact is, this is but one known source of public sex and it happens to be in the bathroom and the only people having it are people with access to the bathroom. Gay men. It's like that ridiculous argument people use when they want to have sex in the sauna "well is straights could do it they would". Have you done a study of the number of straight people arrested for public sex and contrasted it with gay people? you are just making assumptions and rationalizing gay male behavior.
Posted by: Dezi | Aug 28, 2007 5:25:23 PM
Anon, with all due respect, this has nothing to do with what I think should be illegal; this is about what is illegal.
If these guys met in a park and decided that they wanted to go somewhere private and have sex; more power to them.
I'm a big supporter of holding hands and kissing in public. I expect the same rights to PDA's that my straight counterparts take for granted.
This is all together a horse of a different color.
No one will ever convince me that I'm being a prude because I don't think people should be subjected to being propositioned for sex when they are on the shi**er, or at the urinal in a public bathroom. No one will ever convince me that people don't have a right to go to a PUBLIC park and not be subjected to seeing people (of any sex or orientation) having sex. No one will ever convince me that parents, who don't want their children exposed to this when they to the park, are all anti-gay fundamentalist tight asses (I'm definitely not).
There is a huge difference between meeting in a public place to arrange a sexual rendezvous and having sex in a public place or soliciting sex in a toilet.
Does my having a sense of public decency automatically put me in jeopardy of having my pink card revoked?
Posted by: Zeke | Aug 28, 2007 6:00:55 PM
No offense to anyone here. We are all entitled to our opinions and free speech but did anyone read the arrest report. My God, although I think Allen knew what he was doing and looking for, what did he actually do? Tap his foot, run his hand under the stall, peek to see if the stall was empty or the guy was finishing his business. Whatever he did in this report, how is this solicitation? I agree he knew what he was doing and we all know to ourselves what he probably wanted but from a legal prespective, what did he really do? Did I miss something, did he speak or offer money or grab a piece? Not that I can tell. Trolling a restroom is trashy but without an overt act, can a stare at a large member at the urinal next to your's be considered solicitation? Maybe the thing was just that freakin' big.
Posted by: Bill | Aug 28, 2007 6:14:24 PM
He wasn't charged with solicitation...he was charged with interference with privacy and disorderly conduct...if you read the counts they describe the behavior (peeping to the stalls where someone would have a reasonable expectation of privacy).
These are misdemnors which, had he not been a Senator, he would have paid a fine and no one would have been the wiser. The charge is actually the equivalent of "jay walking" except he was a Senator (with a sketchy past)
Remember this was a sting type operation.
Posted by: dezi | Aug 28, 2007 6:31:42 PM
If solicitation of sex in public is a crime then how does one meet in a public place and arrange to go somewhere private for sex? I mean, you could be propositioning a cop...
Posted by: John | Aug 28, 2007 7:27:09 PM
Am I the only one that thinks the cop is cute?
Posted by: Travis | Aug 28, 2007 7:29:42 PM
Zeke: your pink card is fraying a bit. Please read up on administrative law regarding the establishment of intent. The wide latitude given police to establish intent has been the bane of gay men for years. Craig was able to plead down to crimes that no one is ever charged with because it was simply easier to process the whole matter pleaded down. You might ask yourself where you would find it acceptable for gay men to solicit sex from each other: bars? gyms? the theater? towleroad? not parks though? I'm not talking about for having sex in public. What if they passed notes? You see, the law in practice doesn't distinguish between various types of solicitation, as in either for public or private sex. Oh, and in many places still, two men kissing will not pass community standards and lead to charges of lewd public behavior.
Posted by: anon (gmail.com) | Aug 28, 2007 11:31:01 PM
The fact that anyone is trying to defend this TROLL is unbelievable.
Rogers at blogactive reported on Craig's t-room proclivities 8 months ago. The Idaho Statesman did a follow-up investigation and interviewed Craig about it. Now, he just happens to be "entrapped" into this? Bullshit. Read the arrest report and Craig's subsequent lies about trying to pick up paper with his right hand vs. the officer's mention of the ring on his left. Let's also remember that Craig was peeking through the stall at the officer before playing footsie.
The myriad excuses that Craig has tried to use (WIDE-STANCE!?!) all ring hollow. He was trolling for sex in a bathroom. I'm all for personal freedom, but his actions were overt and reprehensible.
Posted by: theo | Aug 29, 2007 12:45:07 AM
Yet another hypocritical,shithouse cocksucker bites the dust (instead of his intended target). Seems like every other day one of these married "family values" homophobes with a squad of brats and a Bible gets caught drooling over penis in a public restroom. AND...they're all Republicans!
Posted by: Paul the Cynic | Aug 29, 2007 3:37:52 AM
Yet another hypocritical,shithouse cocksucker bites the dust (instead of his intended target). Seems like every other day one of these married "family values" homophobes with a squad of brats and a Bible gets caught drooling over penis in a public restroom. AND...they're all Republicans!
Posted by: Paul the Cynic | Aug 29, 2007 3:38:50 AM