09/26/2007
Ahmadinejad’s Official Website Omits Columbia Comment on Gays
The International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission (IGLHRC) has taken a look at the transcripts of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s comments at Columbia University published on his official website.
What they found is that his remarks about gays ("In Iran, we don’t have homosexuals like in your country. We don’t have that in our country. In Iran, we do not have this phenomenon. I do not know who has told you that we have it.") do not appear in the Persian transcripts, which is what the Iranian news agencies base their reports on.
Writes the IGLHRC: "The English version of the President’s official website (www.president.ir) provides a full and complete transcript of his speech and the Question & Answer segment where he claimed that homosexuality does not exist in Iran. However, the Persian-language transcript has excised both the question about treatment of lesbians and gay men in Iran and President Ahmadinejad’s soon to be legendary response. The President’s website purportedly provides the authoritative transcripts of his speeches and is relied upon by the news media in Iran. To date, not a single Persian-language media outlet in Iran - including Iran’s official news agency, IRNA, and the semi-independent news agencies, ISNA, Mehrrnews and Farsnews, and the Wednesday morning newspapers - has reported on the President’s comments."
Homosexuality does not exist in Ahmadinejad’s Iran. God forbid there be any discussion of it either.
Recently
Ahmadinejad: "In Iran, we don’t have homosexuals" [tr]
CBC Takes a Look at Iran's Underground Gay Community [tr]
Posted 10:00 AM EST by Andy in Iran, News | Permalink
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Posted by: David Ehrenstein | Sep 26, 2007 10:17:46 AM
Well, if the Iranian news media is only going to rely on the President's website to get their information, then of course they are going to be misled. Duh!
Posted by: Gregg | Sep 26, 2007 10:53:21 AM
C'mon David Ehrenstein, congratulations on being able to reproduce the words to a pop song, but you've wasted your time and ours with this posting - go to a chatroom for teenage girls if you want to trade lyrics - do you have anything to say that's worth reading?
As for Ahmadinejad, why have we not seen an officially translated transcript of his speech? The interpreter clearly wasn't up to professional standards - how can we criticise what he has to say until we know exactly what he said? When he says "we don't have that in our country", what exactly does he mean by "that"? Homosexuality tout court, or the prominent homosexual culture of Western countries? He can hardly be mocked for asserting the latter...
And OK, this is gonna get me flamed big time, but Ahmadinejad is my shameful crush (physically, not ideologically) - something about big-nosed Arab men with beards - tasty...
Posted by: johnnzboy | Sep 26, 2007 10:55:25 AM
To think that he actually runs a whole country. Sad!! JOHNNZBOY, you're not the only one,boo. I think he's attractive too, and so is Afganistan's Karzai. Middle Easterns just do it for me, point à la ligne!
Posted by: Shabaka | Sep 26, 2007 11:02:37 AM
JOHNNZBOY,
Um, Ahmadinejad is NOT Arabic, he's Persian. There is a difference.
Calling him Arab to his face in Iran would certainly buy you a place at the end of a rope.
Posted by: Zeke | Sep 26, 2007 11:03:29 AM
I have to say, even though I think this man is a scumbag and a tyrant he is, at least in one way, more courageous and democratic than the President of the United States.
He, unlike our President, was willing to go into an OPEN forum, in front of a crowd that wasn't hand selected by him and take unscripted, un pre-approved, tough questions from a hostile audience.
Has anyone EVER seen our President do that in HIS OWN country, much less in another country?
Posted by: Zeke | Sep 26, 2007 11:09:08 AM
Zeke...a letter to the editor in today's NY Times also mentioned that. Good point.
Posted by: Myackie | Sep 26, 2007 11:23:58 AM
My boyfriend thinks he's hot too, Johnnzboy.
Posted by: David Ehrenstein | Sep 26, 2007 11:26:04 AM
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad hot?!?! Eeewwwwwwww!!!!!!! He's fugly. And his politics make him even fuglier. Eeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Has anyone seen any debate about whether his comments at Columbia were intended to communicate that Iran doesn't have homosexuals...or that Iran doesn't have an out, semi-organized, politically powerful (well, sort of) gay community? And if you havne't seen any debate about that, I'd love to hear what towleroad readers think he meant. I, for one, think he meant no homosexuals live in Iran.
Posted by: peterparker | Sep 26, 2007 11:37:40 AM
PParker: i think he was misinterpreted, and meant Iran has no homosexual culture... which it doesn't.
as for the skuzzy shrimp being even remotely hot... egads, what a painful thought.
Posted by: A.J | Sep 26, 2007 11:55:25 AM
I had posted this comment previously which none of the Gay blogosphere has brought up or questioned. The comment made by Ahmadinejad seems to be the rallying cry by the rightwing blogosphere. I expect this type of comment from Ahmadinejad. But the rightwingers using this particular statement to ridicule him bugs me just as much. The rightwingers care about gay rights since when?
Posted by: Dave Z | Sep 26, 2007 12:20:09 PM
Yeah, he is good looking, which can be dangerous when you're also a charismatic tyrant. But by the discussion here, I can tell we don't really know enough about him. We're told he's dangerous, but look who says so. I'm not saying we should give Ahmadinejad a chance, because we do really know what he does to gays. There aren't gays in Iran? He kills them, duh!
Posted by: justincredible | Sep 26, 2007 12:28:26 PM
And I forgot to say...
I have an oppinion of him, and I've decided not to live in his country. But his criticisms of the West at times are poignant. I emphasize "at times." He's not brave or anything for coming to our country to blame us for the evils of the world, either. He's taking advantage of the "free speech" that doesn't exist in his own country. He didn't say anything new this week, he just said it to a new audience and you happened to hear it.
okay, I think I'm done now.
Posted by: justincredible | Sep 26, 2007 12:33:35 PM
Zeke: I think you are exaggerating the moral equivalence between Bush and Herr A., as Bush was subject to an entire presidential election process twice, both of which included debates with unscripted Q/A (within limits), constant Q/A from the press for his spokespeople and lots of commentary online and in newspapers that the Admin can't control. Likewise, while A. was willing to take questions from the audience, it was not a freewheeling debate, nor were his answers very forthcoming or elaborate. I think the best you can say is that in some ways all leaders are alike.
Posted by: anon (gmail.com) | Sep 26, 2007 12:40:18 PM
i find ahmadinejad kind of sexy, too. when he took iran's national university entrance exams as a young man, he scored 132 among over 400,000 participants. this, from the son of a blacksmith. compare that to our patrician pansy in chief -- a yale legacy and a complete idiot.
i agree with zeke. our draft-evading, hawkish president has always been too cowardly to speak in all but the most controlled situations.
i wondered about his statement regarding homosexuality not existing in iran, as well. did he really mean there is no homosexuality, or that there is no homosexual movement or culture as it exists in the u.s. and other western societies? this man is clearly very intelligent. on the other hand, he IS a holocaust denier. it would be interesting to know the answer.
now for the obligatory disclaimer: the man is a tyrant and human-rights abuser. iran, and the world, would be better off if he were not in a position of power or influence.
Posted by: nic | Sep 26, 2007 1:52:39 PM
Zeke... what the fuck are you talking about? Bush is constantly giving talks at Universities, and is asked questions by college students. While I disagree with practically every single Bush and Republican policy, your branding Bush less open to criticism than this real tyrant is the typical super left wing bending of the facts that ruins the left's reputation... in other words your stupidity reflects poorly on our intelligence.
Posted by: eli | Sep 26, 2007 2:22:40 PM
Eli...those "audiences", even at universities, are carefully screened. Nobody carrying an anti-bush sign or wearing an anti-bush t-shirt will be permitted. In fact, I think they also screen questions in advance, so bush can be briefed.
Posted by: Myackie | Sep 26, 2007 2:46:07 PM
ELI, first off it is clear that you are very unfamiliar with me based on your baseless and incorrect accusation that I am in any way "typical super left wing". Most people here who actually know me would certainly challenge this statement.
Now on to your other assertion: Could you give me a link to some (or at least ONE) of those open forum talks at Universities that President Bush has attended? And when you do could you try to address me in a polite, civil and respectful way just I as do you.
ANON, I made no claim or comparison whatsoever of moral equivalence between Bush and Ahmadinejad. Perhaps you misread or misinterpreted my statement. I hope you’ll consider reading it again. My only point was that Ahmadinejad, though a total scumbag, at least faces his detractors and answers non pre-approved questions from hostile audiences. I would LOVE to see our President do that. I don’t know how that got interpreted into being a moral judgment.
Does anyone really think that any of the questions in 2000 or 2004 debates were random and uncensored? Does anyone really think the audiences at those debates weren't pre approved and screened? I certainly hope not.
Posted by: Zeke | Sep 26, 2007 3:10:23 PM
zeke.
my apologies for the harshness. seriously though, here's a link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6Z1tevub9I. as you can see, there he is, Bush in the flesh, at a university, answering an uncensored question. second, speak to any iranian academic and find out what the situation in iran is for them, and you will find out that whatever you think about Bush (and i cannot believe i am defending your president), he pales in comparison to the control, tyranny, and murder within his own country that A promotes towards academics and intellectuals. just because this arrogant man decided to come to NYC and Columbia does not mean he is so brave. He said homosexuals don't exist in his country, he believes Israel does not have the right to exist and has said that many times, and he imprisons academics routinely. I know you hate Bush, but seriously, know A. before you say he's better than him in some regard.
Posted by: eli | Sep 26, 2007 3:43:59 PM
it would seem that some of you have very short memories or simply weren't paying attention. do you not recall the loyalty oaths audience members needed to sign before being admitted to any rnc sponsored bush campaign speech? all you have to do to refresh your apparantly flagging memories is do a search under "bush loyalty oaths" to get you started.
i've never known ZEKE to make any ill-considered statements on this blog. i thought at least you, ANON (GMAIL.COM), would know better. bush has been the most "handled" president in u.s. history, not counting when w. wilson had a stroke.
jeez, it's enough to make one throw up both arms in exasperation.
Posted by: nic | Sep 26, 2007 3:58:08 PM
bush is extremely 'handled'. i agree, NIC. but it's the comparison of Bush to Hitler (which Zeke does not make but many do), or to Hilter-lite (the Iranian leader, which Zeke makes) that is the abhorrent comparison. Millions of Jews, Gay people, academics, and so forth died at the hands of Hitler. I have watched from Canada as your country flounders under your current leader. I agree, Bush is awful for free speech, Bush has destroyed many of the rights Americans have enjoyed and don't even realize are even there to protect them from people like him and the RNC, but, and here's the big BUT, he is not Ahmadinejad. The comparison to - both implicitly and explicitly - makes Zeke's comments seem silly (sorry Zeke, again). I don't know Zeke at all, but go back and read his comments... Zeke, you ask us to read them over, you should too. Read them, and realize that the comparison is illegit. He is by far not MORE COURAGEOUS nor MORE DEMOCRATIC than Bush. Have you in any way been following Ahmadinejad's policies over the past several years since he was elected?
Posted by: eli | Sep 26, 2007 4:19:08 PM
ELI, I don't want to beat a dead horse here but I do have to address a couple of points in your last comment, including the glaring and obvious straw man that you proffered.
First off, did you actually watch that video clip before you sent it to me as an example of Bush taking an unscripted, un pre-approved question from an unscreened guest in a hostile environment? You have seriously got to be kidding. Jeff Gannon asked more pointed questions. The girl could hardly get the question out without giggling herself to death.
Here’s a helpful hint, just in case you try to find another example to make your point, most people who intend to ask Bush a hard hitting question won’t begin their question with a fawning, doe-eyed introduction where they explain what an honor it is to have him in their presence.
I am so stunned that this is the best proof that you could offer I really want everyone here to take a look at it to see how ridiculous it is.
Check it out boys and girls:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6Z1tevub9I
I’m starting to seriously question your claims that you aren’t a Bush fan.
Now onto your straw man argument. Please refrain from making statements that indicate, erroneously, that I said, or that I believe Bush and Ahmadinejad are moral equivalents by listing all of the bad things that A’jad has done that Bush JUST so that you can act indignant that I would have made such a claim (In spite of the fact that I never made such a claim) in a clever attempt to make me seem like some crazy Bush hating radical leftist.
Straw man tactics are the tools of a clever debater who lacks the luxury of facts. If ya can’t convince ‘em, confuse ‘em!
And again, please refrain from making statements about what you know, or think you know about me, when you have no historical or presentable evidence to back up your claims.
I in fact DO NOT hate Bush. I don't hate anyone. I hate what he has done to our country, I hate what he has done to our Constitution, I hate what he wants to do to my family, I hate what he has done to our military (I am a combat veteran) and to the Iraqi people and I hate what he has done to our reputation around the world but I don't hate him personally. I'll be the first to say that he won't be on my Christmas card list but that's a far cry from hating him.
I you want to have a debate with me using facts rather than tactics and false accusations I will welcome it; otherwise this will be my last response to you.
Have a nice day.
Posted by: Zeke | Sep 26, 2007 4:37:53 PM
Make that:
"...listing all of the bad things that A’jad has done that Bush HASN'T just so...
Posted by: Zeke | Sep 26, 2007 4:43:10 PM
ELI,
i didn't infer what you inferred.
i'm w/zeke on this one.
glad to hear from our northern friends anytime, though.
Posted by: nic | Sep 26, 2007 4:49:24 PM
"...but it's the comparison of Bush to Hitler (which Zeke does not make but many do), or to Hilter-lite (the Iranian leader, which Zeke makes) that is the abhorrent comparison." -- ELI
Whaaaaa? Where the heck did you get that from.
First of all I didn't compare the two men I contrasted them.
ELI, you seem incapable of having a discussion or a debate without resorting to straw man arguments and mistating other people's opinions.
I don't come here to spend my time correcting other people's misinterpretations of my comments or defending people's mistatements of my opinion.
I'm out.
Take care.
Posted by: Zeke | Sep 26, 2007 4:51:54 PM
seriously, you dont get the point. you started off with straw man arguments about your own leader, then accuse me of the same tactics. As i said, i do not support your president, and not a single one of his policies. When he was elected your president, i told my friends he will practically destroy your country, and 7 years later they tell me i was right. i have tons of facts for you, which i could go on and on about, so dont test my debating skills.
second, the fact that the student said it was an honor to have him there, does not mean he still looked like a bafoon trying to answer her question.
third, you did claim him to be more courageous and democtratic than your president. live up to your comments, if you dont want to be attacked. come on. you're not the smartest around, and stop trying to showcase that you are.
dont reply to this comment, as you claim. You're as typical as Bill O'Reilly.
Posted by: eli | Sep 26, 2007 4:54:03 PM
NIC, don't waste your time my friend.
It's clear that ELI has absolutely no need or desire to actually hear our opinions in order to inform himself as to what we feel or believe.
He clearly feels that he has the ability to know our thoughts and opinions even when his clairvoyance doesn't match our written words. Or, he can just take those written words and mold them and shape them like Play Dough into just about any animal shape he wants.
For example, according to ELI I said that Ahmadinejad is by far MORE COURAGEOUS and MORE DEMOCRATIC than Bush in every way whereas what I actually said was, and I quote, "...he is, at least in ONE way, more courageous and democratic than the President of the United States."
I think most intelligent people without an agenda can see the difference between those two statements. In fact I betting on it.
Posted by: Zeke | Sep 26, 2007 5:08:29 PM
ELI, you are not to be taken seriously.
I most definitely will challenge your debating skills.
Anyone who tells me that I am like the "typical super left wing" AND "as typical as Bill O'Reilly" in the SAME damned thread is worthy of scorn and ridicule.
Really bubba, that is frickin HY-sterical!
Yeah, sure, you're no fan of Bush. You don't like a thing he does. Yeah, right!
Neither was Jeff Gannon.
Bwaaaaa!
Posted by: Zeke | Sep 26, 2007 5:15:44 PM
honestly, Zeke, why are you allowed to throw around insult, comments about my debating skills, and my sheer comparison of your skills throw you into a frenzy. question that for yourseld. while my initial comments were over the top, and i immediately apologized as soon as you pointed out your insult, you have become more and more aggressive... JUST LIKE BILL O'REILLY does, so if anyone deserves ridicule, it is you Zeke.
If you knew my politics then i would respond to you baseless comments about me being a fan of Bush. It seems anyone who disagrees with you must be a fan of Bush. Grow up, you know. you dont always have to be right.
now, that's my last reply. i thought you were going to stop?
(p.s. i am enjoying this, by the way... i dont know why you are so mad, really... i am just engaging in typical comment board exchanges, as you are... the over the top comments, the hearsay, the biting insults... you are as much to blame for this behavior as i am).
Posted by: eli | Sep 26, 2007 5:34:13 PM
Surprise, surprise, now you play the victim card.
Good night Gracie.
Posted by: Zeke | Sep 26, 2007 6:14:12 PM
I'm not defending the President of Iran...BUT!
I think its important that people stop choosing to focus on the sensationalist aspects of his rhetoric. At the heart of his comments made today at Columbia University and in his interview with 60 Minutes, Ahmadinejad essentially states that his country does not support terrorism and that the basis of their foreign policy is diplomatic relations with everyone. He posited that he would be willing to...in fact he actively DESIRES to reopen diplomacy with the United States. He stated that he DENOUNCED the 9/11 attacks innumerous times at that he has no idea why American media is choosing to propagate the notion that somehow, the Iranian government is rejoicing the loss of innocent civilian life here in the states. He concluded by saying that despite anyone's political ideologies or beliefs, that all the nations in the world have the ability to be at peace, but it would require all governments to treat each other with respect and dignity, despite their differences and political ideologies. He acknowledges developing nuclear power but also insists that there are other reasons for developing weapons of mass destruction, and blames American media for propogating a notion which he views as absurd....and so do I.
So yes, the President of Iran subscribes to the insane notion that the Holocaust never happened, that gays don't exist in his country, and yes he supports Palestine. But these are the outrageous elements of his rhetoric! Shouldn't we be looking what is important here, in that HE DOES NOT SUPPORT STATE SPONSORED TERRORISM and hopes to open diplomacy between our countries. I'll be the first to admit that he is TOTALLY CRAZY, but we do not have to agree with everything he believes in order to strive for peace between our nations.
There are fundamental differences in our culture, but the American media and the Bush Administration are hellbent on keeping our countries at odds. Why?
Posted by: Alex | Sep 26, 2007 11:06:11 PM
No gays in Iran? Sounds like the perfect country for Michael Savage
Posted by: mike | Sep 27, 2007 2:43:25 AM
dont forget alex, he also did go into an OPEN forum.
Posted by: eli | Sep 27, 2007 2:53:40 AM
I posted earlier without reading the earlier posts. Any gay man that can find any atraction towards Ahmadinejad is disgusting. He is the leader of a country that hangs, stones, and beats to death homosexuals. The Iranian people have a long and vibrant history, I do not judge them, but this carcase of a person needs to die. Would a jewish person find Hitler Sexy. This whole line discussion is abhorant.
Posted by: mike | Sep 27, 2007 3:33:22 AM
Dave Z,
Please don't confuse conservative with Christhion Right. I have heard in person Bush speak, and I think he is trying to be a good leader. No one can make everybody happy. I have good friends in Iraq and Afganistan, and they all speak of the good they are doing. Lets support our Country instead of having our Hollywood Actors go to Venesuellia (Yah, I know I spelled that wrong) and tell us How Bad Of a People WE are.
Posted by: mike | Sep 27, 2007 4:04:22 AM
mike,
i was going to explain why bill o'reilly is a paternalistic moron to you on another thread, but it is clear to me that you look at things only on the most superficial level. bush is trying to be a good leader? in whose eyes? the religious right's? and how? by invading a country that did nothing to us and, hence, causing the deaths and maiming of tens of thousands of innocent civilians?
and, by the way, a person can be attractive physically (and otherwise) while being evil. why do you think milton portrayed lucifer the way he did?
oh, why bother. one can't teach a perpetual pollyanna the ways of the real world. go away little girl.
and c'mon you don't really have friends in those countries. who you kiddin'?
Posted by: nic | Sep 27, 2007 11:52:35 AM
UMMMM, Alex, trying to be a good leader doesn't actually make someone a good leader. Don't confuse the two things. I try to be a nice person, but that doesn't mean I actually am a nice person.
Posted by: eli | Sep 27, 2007 1:19:36 PM
UMMMMM, Nic, your argument is flawed in that I never asserted that he was a good leader. Actually the point is that despite our disagreements with the way he runs his country, we should heed his call for peace and diplomacy between our countries, rather than bury that aspect of his rhetoric to focus on the headline fodder (holocaust denier!, believes there are no gays!) etc.
Posted by: Alex | Sep 27, 2007 5:19:51 PM
Alex,
you got the wrong guy. i didn't address a comment to you. i think you meant ELI, maybe?
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