03/06/2008
DNC Chair Dean Urges Florida and Michigan to Re-do Contests
DNC Chair Howard Dean is urging officials from Michigan and Florida to propose plans to re-do their state primary contests, the AP reports:
"The two state parties will have to find the funds to pay for new contests without help from the national party, Dean said. 'We can't afford to do that. That's not our problem. We need our money to win the presidential race,' he said. Officials in Michigan and Florida are showing renewed interest in holding repeat presidential nominating contests so that their votes will count in the epic Democratic campaign. The Michigan governor, top officials in Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign, and Florida's state party chair all are now saying they would consider holding a sort of do-over contest by June. That's a change from the previous insistence from officials in both states that the primaries they held in January should determine how their delegates are allocated. Clinton won both contests, but the results were meaningless because the elections violated national party rules."
The Detroit Free Press reports: "Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm, a Clinton supporter, said the victory in Ohio changes "the landscape a bit" and could open the door to a Democratic caucus -- not a primary -- in Michigan, though it would have to be privately funded and both candidates would have to agree. 'Michigan and Florida votes should count. To not count them at all would alienate these states in the general election,' she said."
And according to the Tampa Bay Tribune, "Florida Sen. Bill Nelson, the state's senior elected Democrat, called Gov. Charlie Crist on Wednesday to discuss the possibility, according to a spokesman. The two agreed that Florida taxpayers shouldn't pay the tab, and Nelson thinks the Democratic National Committee should bear the cost, said Nelson spokesman Dan McLaughlin. A statewide vote would likely cost into the double-digit millions. Meanwhile, Crist, a Republican, issued a joint statement along with Democratic Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm calling it 'reprehensible" and "intolerable' that both national parties are penalizing Florida and Michigan over their primary dates. 'Seat our delegates,' Crist and Granholm demanded."
Howard Dean's appearance on MSNBC this morning, AFTER THE JUMP...
Posted 11:30 AM EST by Andy Towle in Barack Obama, Charlie Crist, Democratic Party, Election 2008, Florida, Hillary Clinton, Michigan, News | Permalink
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There's been a lot of talk in this campaign about "grassroots." There's more and more talk of the benefits of a combined H&O ticket. Some have said one or the other of them would never agree, but I've not seen anyone say it is a bad idea.
This morning's bombing in NYC, no matter how unrelated it will probably turn out to be to "organized terrorists," reminds us of the kinds of things that could happen between now and November to convert a doddering old warmonger like McCain into someone the majority of voters, regardless of any present support for a Democrat, think is the best person to "protect us."
I respectfully urge each of you to start e-mailing both the Clinton and Obama camps, as well as the DNC, and demanding a joint ticket. You can state your preference for which would be better "on top," but the important thing is the two together—combining their unique strengths and huge groups of supporters to defeat anything that Fate and the Rovians might throw at us.
Here are some e-mail/contact addresses:
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/help/contact/
http://my.barackobama.com/page/s/contact2
http://www.democrats.org/page/s/contact
You have nothing to lose but a few minutes of your time—and a new world to gain.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." - Margaret Mead
"Human progress is neither automatic nor inevitable... Change does not roll in on the wheels of inevitability, but comes through continuous struggle. History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
"We must be the change we wish to see in the world." - Gandhi
Posted by: Michael Bedwell | Mar 6, 2008 5:51:48 PM
Why in the world would Obama want to be her veep? He has got more votes than she has, and, why on earth would he want to play second fiddle to her after all the smearing of his name and other nasty acts by her camp? I already would not have voted for her as I just don't like her at all, but, her quip on his faith was the last straw, and, I'm hope he taks the gloves off and exposes her for what she really is, same old tiresome DC insider.
And, just who is to pay for a re-vote, or does she by being "the Hillary Clinton" just get the votes, that were in a violation of the party rules? Yet another exapmle of why she isn't qualifed, as big a flip flopper as Mitt.
If, she is anywhere near the Democratic ticket, I will vote for anyone else on the ballot.
Posted by: Sebastian | Mar 6, 2008 6:04:54 PM
Sebastian because she ha a huge following
simle politics
1 obama supporter+ 1 Hillary supporter = 2 against 1 mccain supporter
Hillary can't dismiss Obama's peole and Obama can't dismiss Hillary's people. Too many hurt feelings on one side or the other and we all end McCain pod people and pray for the day for Canada to liberate us
YIKES!
Obamahaded Clintonistas
Clintonheaded Obamamaniacs
It is time to unite the party
Posted by: Jmmyboyo | Mar 6, 2008 6:29:54 PM
'Seat our delegates,' Crist and Granholm demanded."
-----------------------------
If they demand it they should pay for it. This is grandstanding of the worse kind. Crist is somehow trying to gain points in dragging this out, perhaps with a post in a McShame White House. No way they are putting a closet case on the ticket, especially with the trouble with the conservative base.
Granholm is trying to gain points with Hillary, maybe again for a spot if she gets in. Either way the people should not have to pay for these idiots to figure it out, it's bad enough that we have to watch their incompetence, without having to foot the bill.
Posted by: patrick nyc | Mar 6, 2008 6:58:39 PM
As an outsider to this whole problem (I'm actually a Libertarian) let me suggest to you dueling Democrats a very simple solution to your current dilemma.
And one that won't cost a nickel to the taxpayers of either Florida or Ohio to boot.
Here's the idea: Arrange for the superdelegates to split their votes in such a way that neither Clinton or Obama gets the needed majority on the first vote. This should be mathematically do-able, as a small number are committed to Edwards anyways.
The result? Yep...a brokered convention.
It's now a free-for-all! First order of business: vote to seat the Florida and Ohio delegates.
On the second (and quite possibly additional) rounds of voting, NO delegate, super or regular, would be bound...and EVERY state would now get a vote. In fact, it need not even be Hillary or Obama...you guys might have second thoughts on both of them at the last minute, and would now be free to choose a "dark horse."
An additional side benefit of this plan: Undoubtably, it'd be the most highly entertaining political convention in the past 50 years! Personally, I'd stock up my house with salty snacks, and remain glued to CNN gavel to gavel for such a spectacle!
Posted by: Cassius | Mar 6, 2008 7:15:17 PM
edit: change "Ohio" to "Michigan" above.
Posted by: cassius | Mar 6, 2008 7:23:38 PM
Well, I just got off the phone with Gallop poll. I have been polled
Some interesting questions
- they asked about the FL and MI revote
- they asked about a united dem ticket of Obama/Clinon ....Clinton/ Obama
- they asked if I was single or married and I tore into them a bit about their suck questin since I am gay and not allowed to mary
Anyway; expect the poll to come out soon and it is already in the political sphere about a united ticket
Posted by: Jimmyboyo | Mar 6, 2008 8:22:16 PM
So why "redo" the primaries in Michigan and Florida? The DNC wanted to punish the states and now they are asking for a recount?! And how much money have Obama and Clinton spent? So we have a dem party that is deeply split, confused and cannot make up their minds on whose votes to count and whose to throw out? WOW! So why again are they better for us? Just a thought....
Posted by: RB | Mar 6, 2008 9:41:54 PM
The Democrats are always confused.
GOP primaries are winner take all affairs. That's how McCain became the presumptive nominee on Super Tuesday even though he had only won only around 10 states at that point.
McCain got all of the delegates in places like California and New York according to GOP rules, even though he barely broke 50% (because Romney and Huckabee split the other half).
Which is why Hillary wishes she were a Republican right about now. Heh.
Posted by: John | Mar 6, 2008 10:48:36 PM
Let's get some BS out of the way. The FL State Democrat party decided how and when its primary would be held and NO ONE ELSE. Happened the same in other states. In some cases the major parties held votes or caucuses on different dates.
Check the FL Dem website for the options they considered and reasoning for selecting or rejecting it: http://www.fladems.com/page/content/makeitcount-selectionanalysis/
The rules were set, now some folks want "do overs" after votes have been cast and rules followed. If you throw out the rules, what is the fall-out? Why does the Democratic Party always want to eject the voting rules after the fact? Thanks, Al Gore.
Hillary broke her pledge NOT to campaign in MI or FL. The other candidates KEPT their pledges. Why should she benefit for this breach of oath? She was the ONLY candidate on the MI ballot. Nothing fair there. She wants the nomination at ANY COST.
The Democratic Party, DNS and in the states, only have themselves to blame for the chaos they're having in coming up with a nominee. No one else is to blame (not even the GOP scapegoat). They decided the dates, they decided to have superdelegates, they decided the primary or caucus setups, they decided the punishments, they decided whether they were proportionally allotting delegates or not.
Posted by: queendru | Mar 7, 2008 1:02:04 AM
well, what happens when BEDWELL's truth and mine blows up in your faces? what is to be done after hillary has won the major Democratic states of CA, NY, NJ, OH, MA, and MI and dem-leaning FL? and the state of tx, to boot. how can the party leaders defer to obama, who has won a bunch of red (not even purple) state caucuses?
why aren't the people of Massachusetts not outraged that, though the state went for hillary, the bloated kennedy (trying to remain relevant), the loser kerry, and the failed governor -- super delegates all -- have endorsed obama?
the soul of the democratic party is doing well: a woman and a black man competing for the presidency of the world's most powerful and most dangerous country!?... give me a fucking break. but, the dem party needs to do some serious soul searching. what is unfolding is not what party leaders had in mind with the super delegate system and placing so much importance on the small caca-, sorry, caucusing states.
the dem party needs to reevaluate the process almost as badly as our country needs a change of leadership and a return to our collective sense of self: to wit, no torture, no invasion and occupation of countries, human and civil rights for all, and the washing of the body politic from all things rovian and machiavellian.
Posted by: nic | Mar 7, 2008 7:12:30 AM
Caucuses are just plain wrong and violate my rights as a voter. I want to show up and pull a lever and be in and out in 15 minutes, I DONT want to stand around and be preached to in the effort to persuade me to vote one way or another. Caucuses are biased toward the fervent voters who have time to spare.
Posted by: qjersey | Mar 7, 2008 7:26:34 AM
QJ
There are benefits and problems with both.
Primaries can be hacked and votes altered or erased, hanging chads, etc.
Not very democratic
The benefit of a caucus is that all votes can pretty much be seen by everybody else in the district "eyeswitnesses"
You mentioned the problems with cacuses that primaries balance out.
Both are good and bad for diefferent reasons. Both support and detract from democracy.
Posted by: Jimmyboyo | Mar 7, 2008 10:11:57 AM
NIC
Slight problem
NPR National Public Radio is now reporting that TX finalized counts has Obama winning popular vote by 8,000 and 3 delegates more than Hillary.
http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/7/11339/50182/559/471347
That isn't even a full hair width's difference it is so slim, but the final results ae Oama won TX
Posted by: Jimmyboyo | Mar 7, 2008 2:44:56 PM
jimmyboyo,
it is never a solution to rend the baby.
FL and MI have to be acknowledged. those people showed up and did their duty. it is beyond stupid in this critical time to discount anyone's vote.
Posted by: nic | Mar 7, 2008 2:48:48 PM
NIC
I totaly want them sat, but the revote delegates.
Many MI people stayed home knowing it didn't count per the rules. Many non home owning (big drawer was the home owner tax thingy on the ballot) FL people didn't show up for the same reason.
I know FL will go Hillary in a revote, but I can live with that as long as it is offical and by the rules.
Seat them by all means, but the revoted ones.
The clinton camapign seems a bit confused on their offical stance at the moment.
Terry McAuliffe for the Hillary campaign the other day said they would accept firehouse caucues, Hillary now says no on caucuses. The latter being bad PR. In another couple of days I would expect them to be gung ho about it after hamering out the details.
Posted by: Jimmyboyo | Mar 7, 2008 3:23:26 PM
Clinton has wanted it both ways since the inevitability cloak in her campaign wore off and like her husband has begun the negative attacks without much prompting. She is willing to ensure that the repugs gain another 4 years in the lily white house because she wants it her way. If she wants FL & MI badly enough to destroy her party and lose the lily white house because she backs the rules-breakers, she should also realize that there are more Clinton haters than Obama lovers. The repugs are wishing she wins the nomination because they know how to beat her, Obama is another story altogether.
Posted by: DC ARNOLD | Mar 7, 2008 8:00:52 PM