07/14/2008
John McCain on Gay Adoption, Marriage, the Internet
In an interview with the NYT on Sunday, John McCain said flat out that he doesn't believe gay couples should be allowed to adopt children:
"I think that we’ve proven that both parents are important in the success of a family so, no, I don’t believe in gay adoption."
Forget all the same-sex couples who have successfully raised children. He and Cindy set the standard.
He also spoke on the subject of same-sex marriage: "Many social conservatives strenuously oppose California’s decision to allow same-sex marriage. But Mr. McCain, who also opposes same-sex marriage, has always said that the issue is up to the states, and in the interview he said he would stick to that position as president even if California chose to continue allowing gay marriage after putting the matter to a statewide vote in November. 'I respect the right of the states to make those decisions,' he said."
McCain also talked about his use of the internet (clip from the Personal Democracy Forum 2008 in late June): "He said, ruefully, that he had not mastered how to use the Internet and relied on his wife and aides like Mark Salter, a senior adviser, and Brooke Buchanan, his press secretary, to get him online to read newspapers (though he prefers reading those the old-fashioned way) and political Web sites and blogs. 'They go on for me,' he said. 'I am learning to get online myself, and I will have that down fairly soon, getting on myself. I don’t expect to be a great communicator, I don’t expect to set up my own blog, but I am becoming computer literate to the point where I can get the information that I need.'"
In other news, following the reports of Alabama Attorney General Troy King's possible resignation over a gay affair, the McCain campaign scrubbed all references to King from its website.
And Michelangelo Signorile discusses McCain's sham marriages, responding to an L.A. Times article over the weekend which reported on the fact that McCain had obtained a marriage license for Cindy while still married to his first wife: "Although McCain suggested in his autobiography that months passed between his divorce and remarriage, the divorce was granted April 2, 1980, and he wed Hensley in a private ceremony five weeks later. McCain obtained an Arizona marriage license on March 6, 1980, while still legally married to his first wife."
McCain’s Conservative Model? Roosevelt (Theodore, That Is) [nyt]
Posted 11:30 AM EST by Andy Towle in Election 2008, Gay Adoption, Gay Marriage, John McCain, News | Permalink
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PS
I wonder if Zeke is out shopping for a vodoo doll of mccain as we speak.
This latest bit from mcshame has got to have hit too close to home for zeke.
Zeke, Kiss your family for all of us!!!!!!!!!!!! (have you ever mentioned if you adopted or birthed?)
EPIPHANY moment......gay familys should stage a march on mcshame campaign headquarters. Al of the USA's gay couples with their loved children should get prime time coverage
Posted by: Jimmyboyo | Jul 14, 2008 1:53:41 PM
Obama is a very junior senator, which makes it hard for him to propose legislation. If the words are useless, as you say, at least Obama says the RIGHT words, while McCain's words AND actions are consistently WRONG for gay rights.
As President Obama has pledged to use the office as a bully pulpit to, among other things, overturn DOMA. A quick internet search reveals that this position has the right wing family values people's panties in a twist. They believe it, why don't you?
Posted by: Kevinvt | Jul 14, 2008 1:58:06 PM
I want a t-shirt that says,
McCain
Boo, He Sucks
Posted by: walker | Jul 14, 2008 1:58:16 PM
McCain's such a pro-gay moderate Maverick, right Log Cabinites?
Posted by: MAJeff | Jul 14, 2008 2:02:56 PM
Talking through your ass isn't going to help you, Banne, which is exactly what your assuming you know what McCain's actual feelings are, as well as asserting that NO ONE opposes gay adoptions because of homophobia amounts to. Yes, there are exceptions—even among some gays. As I recall, Andy reported months ago that one of those two Italian trailer trash "designers," Dolce & Gabanna said she was against it. But most nongay "think of the children" arguments are just homohatred in "compassionate" clothing. Homohatred primarily out of sexism, as do the scientifically meaningless concepts of "mother role" and "father role."
Further, your assertion that single parent adoption is a rarity, even more that "gay adoption" is a broad brush not supported by the facts between the bristles that vary greatly in the details.
"According to the U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services, 33% of children adoption from Foster Care is by a single parent (U.S. DHHS, 2000)."
"Approximately 25 percent of the adoptions of children with special needs are by single men and women."
One of the problems with definitively stating what reality is vis-a-vis gay adoption is that virtually all states allow INDIVIDUALS to adopt [without specifying that they must be NONGAY individuals] but it's not been tested in every states. In general, all but a few states allow gay INDIVIDUALS to adopt which, by definition, would also legally count as "single parent adoption." The trickier, more restrictive variation is "joint adoption" by a gay couple. Only about 10 states and DC allow that. In several states, you can petition to adopt the child of your partner or a child of the relationship. [About half allow adoption of a partner’s child at least in some JURISDICTIONS—location, location isn't just important in real estate]. These are usually called second-parent or stepparent adoptions. Of course, petitioning does not guarantee approval.
Such disparities—individuals even if gay more often approved for adoption than gay couples—further reinforces the idea that homophobia is the primary factor behind such opposition.
Though it happens less than in the past [but still too often] there is a long history of court custody/visitiation rulings demonstrating this, too. Everything from the divorcing gay parent being told by the judge that their children cannot visit them if they now have a same gender partner even if the share custody with their opposite gender ex to being denied shared custody entirely.
McShame's motive isn't any more the "welfare" of the child than his opposition to even civil unions is "the sanctity of marriage."
Posted by: Michael Bedwell | Jul 14, 2008 2:13:16 PM
Yes, I base my beliefs on what the religious nut jobs think. They also think Armageddon is going to occur in our lifetime. Should I start stocking up on my canned food and holy bibles?
I agree he is a junior senator, but he has certainly taken zero initiative to in any way impact gay rights ona federal level as a senator. I understand he's been very busy running for President for most of his term, but pardon me if I don't get my hopes up yet.
Oh and while I do think McCain is pandering to the right on gay issues, which yes, disgusts me, he did vote against the Federal Marriage Amendment...twice. I think by endorsing the idea a state has the right to define marriage, you tacitly support DOMA. So Obama can want to overturn it if he chooses, but his words indicate that he is not willing to force one state to recognize a marriage in another state either. By all means, I hope he lives up to his word and fights to have DOMA overturned. But if you think he's not got the influence as a junior senator to get anything done in Congress, it makes me wonder why you think he's our nominee. I'd say he's sitting pretty damned high right now to propose as he sees fit in Congress. Of course, he won't, because proposing to overturn DOMA now will only ignite the right against him, so he appeases you and most gays enough to say he will after he is President. We'll see.
Posted by: Banne | Jul 14, 2008 2:15:30 PM
Sould have read: Homohatred primarily evolves out of sexism, as do the scientifically meaningless concepts of "mother role" and "father role."
Posted by: Michael Bedwell | Jul 14, 2008 2:15:43 PM
MB -
I never asserted that McCain didn't think it was immoral, I simply said that isn't what he is arguing. It's much easier to point out that single parent adoption is successful so the notion he is presenting that children should only go to a man/woman relationship is wrong. We are arguing the same thing, I'm just being a lot less emotional and more rational about his argument. His motives are clear to all of us, of course, but there is a much easier way to refute his position than to say he's being mean to gay people.
Also, you cannot really compare statistics on single parent adoptions versus gay couple adoptions percentage wise since you have no idea how many single parents are turned away versus gay couples. Obviously there will be more single parent adoptions than gay couple adoptions since gays make up about 2% of the population and you figure a very small percentage of that 2% is actually in a relationship and looking to adopt. I'm not arguing that it is not more common than gay couple adoption, I'm simply saying it certainly is not as easy as a straight couple adoption. I was simply pointing out that according to McCain's argument, single parents shouldn't be allowed to adopt. It's been shown that having two parents isn't necessary or required, so his argument is complete BS. And I think you get more widespread support from straight people by arguing that point.
Posted by: Banne | Jul 14, 2008 2:28:16 PM
Please people, he is speaking of his own belief, just as each person commenting on this website and in the rest of the world is. What is the big deal? I also believe their needs to be an equal and morally correct role models of a man and woman in a childs life, however if a person whom is in a same sex relationship can give a child those equal needs than more power to them. Yes, there are crappy people in the world, but you can't look down on the entire straight or gay community for the way the choose to live or believe, as they do. If he goes back on any of his beliefs, people will call him a hipocrite. He can't win for loosing. He could just say what people want him to say to trick you into getting him into office, as alot of democrats and other canidates have done. You have to at least respect his truthfullness on a very difficult question to answer and it is difficult! Everyone has to answer to God one day, straight and gay, religious and athiest, so what's it to you to judge someone else for believing differently, which judging is one of the things Christ told us not to do any way. Also don't even bring up the hipocrisy in christians or religions, etc... because an actual christian goes to Christ because they know they are not perfect, not because they think they are. If they think they are, then, pride comes before the fall anyway, so ignore them and don't worry about it.
Posted by: Joy | Jul 14, 2008 2:46:03 PM
The more I see and hear from McCain, the more he is, unbelieveably enough, starting to come off as possibly less competant than Bush. It's actually shocking.
Posted by: paul | Jul 14, 2008 2:54:00 PM
OK, so bottom line is we've got an old, old man who can't use a computer, can't communicate, doesn't respect single parenting, doesn't want gays to marry or adopt, didn't hold his own marriage vows sacred, wants a hundred more years in Iraq...and has anger management problems.
YIKES!
Wow, just when I thought it couldn't get any worse, it actually CAN.
Posted by: johnny | Jul 14, 2008 3:32:21 PM
While there's merit in your suggestion of challenging the claims that single parents, whether gay or nongay, can be just a good a parent as a nongay couple, Banne, your pulling statistics out of your ass again and declaring them Truth.
Only 2% of the population is gay? POSSIBLY true but NO ONE knows. There are NO estimates that are universally accepted .... both because of the inherent challenge in counting how many are, e.g., from reluctance of many to self-identify to the wide disparity in defining what constitutes "being gay." Is it behavior alone? Is it attraction alone? Is it both? And how much for how long of each? What about those bisexuals who spend most of their life with one gender rather than the other?
So the closest to honesty that anyone can come is to say that they agree with such and such study that claims the percentage is X.
Posted by: Michael Bedwell | Jul 14, 2008 4:07:38 PM
"he [McCain] did vote against the Federal Marriage Amendment" -- yes, and so did Obama.
McCain, by the way, also voted FOR DOMA.
And once again, by saying he will work to repeal DOMA, Obama HAS already incurred the ire of the rabid right. Anyone who thinks he will introduce controversial legislation as a candidate now as a candidate is living in a fantasy world. Will McCain introduce legislation to ban gay adoptions? I don't think so, whatever he believes.
Posted by: Kevinvt | Jul 14, 2008 4:16:25 PM
" You have to at least respect his truthfullness on a very difficult question to answer and it is difficult! "
Nonsense. This question is not difficult at all. One can trust every single scholarly study, take the word of the APA and the Canadian Ministry of Justice survey of literature... or one can trust one's own bigoted lies with no proof whatsoever. Difficult choice?
It may be "just his personal belief," but we don't need anyone with such dangerous and outdated personal beliefs in the White House. In case you haven't noticed, he's a presumptive nominee for President. That's why we care more about his "belief" than the rest of the morons.
Posted by: Kevinvt | Jul 14, 2008 4:21:44 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/06/27/poll.gay/index.html
57% of america thinks gays should be allowed to adopt. Unlike mcshame who thinks children should remain homeless in the foster care system their entire young lives.
You have to scroll to the bottom past a lot of other poll info at the link that is also interesting like
79% support openly gay people serving in the US millitary
Posted by: Jimmyboyo | Jul 14, 2008 4:32:10 PM
McCain's lack of support for gay adoption is but one more in a long list of reasons not to vote for him. Go thru all the acrobatic arguments you want (Banne) justifying his position on this and other issues important to gay people, but that doesn't change the fact that Obama is essentially a pro-gay candidate and McCain is essentially not. To pretend otherwise at this point is willful ignorance and denial. Fortunately, all but the deluded few who seem not to mind jumping in bed with the right wing, see McCain for what he is: anti-gay and hopelessly out of touch with the reality of our lives.
Posted by: Ernie | Jul 14, 2008 4:57:46 PM
Every SERIOUS study of childrearing by different family types shows that kids with two parents typically do better than kids with one parent. Turns out, it DOESN'T MATTER whether those two parents are of the same sex or the opposite sex. And since kids are not raised in a nuclear family vacuum, they will always have access to role models of the other sex than their parents (e.g., my son has lots of women in his life).
Both the American Psychological Association and the American Academy of Pediatrics supports equal adoption and marriage rights for gays and lesbians.
Posted by: David R. | Jul 14, 2008 5:08:31 PM
LOG CABIN, keep up the good work. your party think you are perverted creature who would molest your kids.
Posted by: johnosahon | Jul 14, 2008 6:02:30 PM
I don't need some sleazebag who couldn't keep his cock outta SkeleCindy while still married to his first wife to tell me or my friends how to live our lives.
He's a Senator from my state and and can you say USELESS. He does nothing for the state of Arizona.
Posted by: homer | Jul 14, 2008 6:18:50 PM
I don't need some sleazebag who couldn't keep his cock outta SkeleCindy while still married to his first wife to tell me or my friends how to live our lives.
He's a Senator from my state and and can you say USELESS. He does nothing for the state of Arizona.
Posted by: homer | Jul 14, 2008 6:18:51 PM
Ernie, I was never justifying his position. In fact, I said several times he is wrong. I merely countered his argument based on the evidence he cited, which was in regards to two genders raising a child instead of one. I never supported his argument, argued for it myself or said he was in any way correct. I merely pointed out that he is wrong reason other than "he sucks." Please READ comments before blabbering off saying I have said something I have not.
MB - actually most gay organizations I have read estimate it at 2%. You're right, one can never know how many there are, however there are mathematical estimates that are made and fairly accepted. Even if it's 5% or 10%, I don't see how that invalidates the point that your comparison was illogical.
Posted by: Banne | Jul 14, 2008 6:36:34 PM
Ok, Banne, let's call it spin instead of justification. Saying "I don't believe in gay adoption" is unambiguously anti-gay, however McCain or anyone else might try to dress it up. It's amusing to be accused of blabbering when your comments are so full of misinformation others have already called you on, and I never said that McCain "sucks," but that's beside the point.
The fact remains that McCain's views on gay issues, including gay unions and gay adoption, are FAR to the right of Obama's. It's not simply a parsing of words. Their on-the-record positions are substantially different, and these differences will substantially matter once one of them becomes President. How is that not obvious? I'm still waiting for anyone to give ONE positive reason to vote for McCain instead of Obama on gay issues . . .
Posted by: Ernie | Jul 14, 2008 7:20:56 PM
McCain is a man with adultery and bigamy in his past. He has no room to speak about "traditional" marriage -- or any morals, for that matter.
Posted by: Bossman Pitbull | Jul 14, 2008 8:15:36 PM
McCain is a man with adultery and bigamy in his past. He has no room to speak about "traditional" marriage -- or any morals, for that matter.
Posted by: Bossman Pitbull | Jul 14, 2008 8:16:00 PM
Homer
Teh latest polls from your state show that mccain isn't a sure thing. Only leading by 5% in his home state. Mccain is having to go to AZ to campaign because it would be the height of embaresment to loose his home state.
LOL
keep up the good work in AZ you libs, make mccain a least waste a lot of money there if not out right loose AZ
Posted by: Jimmyboyo | Jul 14, 2008 8:19:28 PM