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1. I love Christina. Also

   In her 2006 Advocate interview she said:
   In 2003, you were honored by GLAAD for your music video for “Beautiful,” which incorporated images of a gay male couple kissing on a public bench and a man transforming himself into a woman. Where did the idea for the video come from?
   The lyrics are based on loving things about you that other people might be opposed to or make fun of you for. A lot of the gay people that write me say that me being true to myself and putting that in my songs is inspirational to them. So it’s almost my tribute to them, to let them feel that the turmoil they might be feeling because they feel like outsiders is OK.

   Given that you’re a newlywed yourself, is marriage equality for gay people something you believe in?
   Yes. My trainer married her girlfriend last weekend and we went. It was beautiful. I was so touched by their vows to each other, I totally cried. They have some disapproving family members who actually decided to be present for the wedding. Afterwards, I wondered, Did they get it? Did they see the love? I never get people that think [being gay] is some kind of choice. You might be able to suppress it, but why would you live life that way? It really saddens me. I’ve heard stories of parents saying, “I’ll be there, but I can’t treat it as a real marriage.” Legally or not, it’s still a unity of two people’s love for each other.

   Posted by: Madeline | Nov 7, 2008 2:49:01 PM

   
   

2. It's a shame so much commentary is focusing on it being "the blacks' fault." Sure, it sucks that that community voted in such high numbers for, but other communities did, too (older people, Hispanics and, of course, whites narrowly). I've been reading some blogs where people are alleging racist insults being hurled at NO ON 8 rallies and he like. How can anyone take your case about discrimination seriously if those are your true feelings? I think those people are in the minority (ironically!) but still, can you imagine how disturbing it would be and what kind of press it would garner if a white gay person were filmed hurling epithets at a black person over this issue? I hope the right will not succeed in using gay marriage to pick off minority "values voters" in the near future.

   Posted by: Matthew Rettenmund | Nov 7, 2008 2:50:41 PM

   
   

3. where is new york city during all this? i know nyc has its own fish to fry, but seriously. what happens in california will DIRECTLY impact new york state.

   Posted by: jack | Nov 7, 2008 2:53:44 PM

   
   

4. Andy, any word if there are gonna be protests around the country? There are mormon temples al over.

   Posted by: Mike | Nov 7, 2008 2:57:46 PM

   
   

5. Yeah, I was wondering about protest across the country. Surely there's one here in Atlanta. Hopefully.

   Posted by: Tom S. | Nov 7, 2008 3:13:06 PM

   
   

6. In New York State, the Governor has made gay marriages from other states legally recognized in the state of New York.

   Not sure what you mean as to the California thing affecting New York.

   Posted by: Madeline | Nov 7, 2008 3:13:25 PM

   
   

7. I too find it misleading to attribute the passage of 8 (a campaign I personally volunteered for and for which invested a lot of blood, sweat and tears) on blacks. While the numbers do not lie, as a voting block they did overwhelmingly vote for its passage, the same data will reveal that they were a small block of the overall electorate and voted largely for the democratic ticket. Had they suppported No on 8, it would not have passed, the numbers support that, but the REAL issue was that an overwhelming number of "small government" republicans supported 8, and it is the republican party whom we must look most closely at for the oppression that we are now experiencing to day. We also must take a lesson from othher civil rights movements and stop playing nice with the religious community who wish to take away our freedoms. These people lie and use hate and fear to keep us down. They hate freedom, just as surely do the Fundamentalists who crashed loaded passenger planes into occupied buildings in the name of their God, as a mission of their God, Allah.

   Before anyone criticizes that comparrison, think of all the other freedoms and protections they wish to rob from us: a federal hate crimes bill, employment and housing protections, they were able to rescind the right to adopt or foster care in Arkansas. The religious right hate the very principles upon which our country was founded. They hate a free America, and if left unchecked, if we continue to be quiet and respectful, they will surely whittle away at the few rights we do possess...like our right to privacy (Lawrence vs Texas...the sodomy case).

   We need to speak in a language that they and those who would follow them speak in, which means calling them out on their agenda or erroding the notions of equality, rights, liberty and freedom. We must draw a stronger link to Fundamentalism, and tie it to the larger global human rights issues we see in Iran, Uganda, Saudi Arabia, etc.

   We are going to have to attack people's religious beliefs, simply because Fundamentalism is so very dangerous, and not just to the gay community, but to America as a whole.

   I urge everyone to stop being so darned respectful and direct that anger in a beneficial way for our community and for our very rights, please!

   Posted by: Mike | Nov 7, 2008 3:15:15 PM

   
   

8. Matthew I agree. This has the makings of a gay PR disaster. I have already seen one article saying that it was a bad thing that so many black people voted in California. After all of the struggles that African Americans went through to vote, someone suggested that it was a bad thing that black people actually voted. And this, not even two days after an election that might be the most symbolic moment in the history of black America. I cannot imagine a time when this, "it's your fault" message is less likely to be well received. When this hits the mainstream black media, there will be hell to pay. And, there should be. Why? Because now "ALL" black people are the enemy. We've forgotten about all the black people in California that actually VOTED no. Gay people should be upset, but spewing all that anger at black people may not be helpful for Round 2 of this fight.

   Posted by: Brandon | Nov 7, 2008 3:23:00 PM

   
   

9. Pop stars speak out against the implementation of this.......but where is Dianne Feinstein now? Barbara Boxer? Henry Waxman? There are huge protests in the street and they silent. Why should gay support them while they abandon us?

   Posted by: Chris | Nov 7, 2008 3:23:10 PM

   
   

10. I'm confused. At what point did Christina bring up "the blacks"?

    Posted by: gabriel | Nov 7, 2008 3:23:54 PM

    
    

11. Look, it's not racist or bigoted to point out that most african americans and mormons in CA voted for this. Those are facts. Those communities should be ashamed of themselves. We need to convince them to change their attitudes.

    However, it IS bigoted to make racist remarks at rallies and to say things like we should ban all religions. I understand the frustration, but even if you don't respect blacks or religious people, at least realize that you're playing into the bigots' hands by making such extreme statements.

    Posted by: Um no | Nov 7, 2008 3:25:01 PM

    
    

12. where is New York City in all this? We've been giving $$ tto the cause, no one has done more in giving exposure to the cause more than some NY based bloggers (thanks Andy, Matthew, et al). Many of us are in contact with all of our friends in Cali to make sure they vote and do what they can. You're not alone, we're behind you.

    Posted by: Mark in NYC | Nov 7, 2008 3:26:34 PM

    
    

13. I agree, Mike. As that Prop 8 sign at a rally said: "No more Mr. Nice Gay!" they attack us, they get venom back!

    Posted by: CK | Nov 7, 2008 3:29:58 PM

    
    

14. "We also must take a lesson from othher civil rights movements and stop playing nice with the religious community who wish to take away our freedoms."

    Except this isn't what happened at all during the era of civil rights.

    For starters, religion was a key part for many blacks during that time. I think the emphasis needs to be less on anti-religion and more on compassionate, loving religion, just like during those days. We're needlessly dividing people when comments are made about burning churches.

    More importantly, when people did protest, they were careful not to let it get out of hand. Why? Because then it would justify everything the liars were saying about them. Part of the key to the success of the civil rights movement was that it was clear to many people that the aggressive whites really were the aggressors. They were trying to kill people who were just eating at a restaurant or going to school.

    Peaceful marching, sit-ins that didn't get out of hand, and similar forms of protest won the day. Yes, some blacks did get more in your face, but the main civil rights movement was very calm.

    Posted by: Um no | Nov 7, 2008 3:39:12 PM

    
    

15. Andy, is there anything we can do to organize a vigil/protest here in NYC tomorrow?

    Posted by: chad | Nov 7, 2008 4:15:30 PM

    
    

16. Um, horses, barn doors, etc.

    Posted by: anon | Nov 7, 2008 4:26:59 PM

    
    

17. Hello folks,

    Let's be productive! I'm going to the rally tonight in SF and need a sign. Anyone want to volunteer some clever suggestions?

    Love the "No More Mr. Nice Gay"

    Posted by: Kyle | Nov 7, 2008 5:11:36 PM

    
    

18. It is wrong to "blame" blacks for its passage (let's blame the Mormons instead), but it is not factually inaccurate to point out that they voted against it by nearly 20% more than any other racial group. I'm not sure where people are getting the Hispanic numbers from but exit polling showed they only slightly favored banding more than allowing gay marriage (53/47% I believe). Whites supported it as did Asians. That aside, what the focus needs to be is not on blame but on understanding WHY black people do not support this issue. Until we answer that, casting blame is pointless.

    Posted by: Banne | Nov 7, 2008 5:14:57 PM

    
    

19. I think people are blowing the "you're blaming blacks" thing out of proportion. Most articles I have seen have not suggested blacks should not have voted, or that Obama made this happen. That's absurd. It is not racist or ignorant to point out that 70% of blacks voted against gay marriage and to make that a talking point. I don't see people casting blame but questioning the logic of how a race that has suffered tremendous inequality could cast a vote for their first black president while casting a vote for inequality at the same time.

    To me it is because being gay is considered something you do rather than who you are and that is where the education starts. But it isn't ignorant or a "PR disaster" to be mad about it. It's simply unproductive. Plus it is clear in CA, most of the gays marching are far more angry at the Mormons than anyone who voted.

    Posted by: Caleb | Nov 7, 2008 5:25:38 PM

    
    

20. Um Caleb, you post proved my point when you said that people were questioning the "logic of how a race that has suffered tremendous inequality could cast a vote . . . for inequality." Another poster said that the African American community should be ashamed of voting for Prop 8. Where do I start here. First, scientists have pretty much debunked the concept of race. Second, a race of people didn't vote. Some black people in California voted. So even if you believe in race, the black race didn't vote. Third, if you believe in race, 30% of the race voted against inequality. If 30% voted for gays, how did the black "race" vote, in your words, for "inequality." Fourth, why are we just asking this about black people? Have people asked why the Jewish Orthodox Church in CA supported the ban when Jews have been discriminated against. (There was that little thing called the Holocaust.) Are they being called out? What about Catholics? What about Mormons? Both of these groups have been discriminated against and were leaders in the Prop 8 battle. Oh we're mad at them, but for some reason we're not holding these groups to the same standard as blacks. It seems suspicious that the same questions are not being asked of those groups. Fifth, why is there this assumption that black people, because of their "race" should see gays not being able to marry as discrimination? A Republican that opposes affirmative action will tell you in a minute that he's not racist or sexist. The fact that someone disagrees with you does not necessarily mean that they see themselves as casting a vote for inequality. Black voters, like many Hispanics, are socially conservative. It is not a surprise that a disproportionately church-going community is not going to be pro-gay marriage. You see the vote as a vote for inequality. I doubt a church-going black person saw it as that. They were taught that marriage is between a man and woman. My point is instead of trying to make this about race, we make it about values. If we do that, we can begin to figure out how to make the case for gay civil rights. Sixth, if the entire black community should be ashamed or should pay the freight because SOME-- not even all-- black people voted for Prop 8, then I guess all white people get blamed the next time something racist happens. Most gay people that I know don't want to be lumped in with other gay people just because they share the same sexual orientation. Why then are gay people so willing to do it with blacks? Bottom line: the prejudice is imbedded in this discussion and so many gay people refuse to see it. Sixth, as for the blaming the blacks thing being out of proportion as someone that DONATED to the No on 8 fight I just got a letter in which the leaders said:

    "We achieve nothing if we isolate the people who did not stand with us in this fight. We only further divide our state if we attempt to blame people of faith, African American voters, rural communities and others for this loss."

    If there weren't attempts to scapegoat black people, I doubt they would have felt the need to single out African Americans. This is happening far too often. It is happening on this blog. It is happening in California.

    I think a lot of gay black people are pretty upset about Prop 8, but also about being blamed a part of the "race" that voted against Prop 8.

    If the larger gay community alienates black gays, I am not optimistic about overturning Prop 8.

    Bottom line: I am trying to convince folks to stop treating this as a racial issue and treat blacks as we treat other socially conservative communities. I think that will help to put together the right strategy. But if folks cannot see the faulty assumptions and prejudice in this discussion, fine.

    Good luck getting Prop 8 overturned.

    Posted by: Brandon | Nov 8, 2008 1:46:57 AM

    
    

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