11/11/2008
Prop 8 Update: News, Protests, Supreme Court Status, Video
New Yorkers, there is a peaceful demonstration outside the Manhattan Mormon Temple tomorrow evening at 6:30. This weekend, groups nationwide are protesting in an action called JOIN THE IMPACT. Look HERE for your city. Here's a list of upcoming California protests this week.
In addition to the 44 state legislators I posted about this morning, more groups have asked the California Supreme Court to overturn Proposition 8: "In letters to the court, the Anti-Defamation League and other groups sided with lawsuits that said Proposition 8, which reinstated a ban on same-sex marriage, amounted to a sweeping revision of the state Constitution instead of a more limited amendment...Another letter from the Bar Association of San Francisco and other groups also urged the court to strike down the measure. 'Because Proposition 8 would shatter existing principles of equal protection and fundamental rights, as well as the judicial branch's role as final arbiter of these constitutional guarantees, it constitutes a revision of the Constitution,' wrote the bar, joined by the Legal Aid Society-Employment Law Center, the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights of the San Francisco Bay Area and the Impact Fund."
A home in SF's Noe Valley. This is loud, but is it helpful?
Nate Silver at fivethirtyeight.com has quite a good post that debunks a lot of the racial finger-pointing that is going on: "At the end of the day, Prop 8's passage was more a generational matter than a racial one. If nobody over the age of 65 had voted, Prop 8 would have failed by a point or two. It appears that the generational splits may be larger within minority communities than among whites, although the data on this is sketchy. The good news for supporters of marriage equity is that -- and there's no polite way to put this -- the older voters aren't going to be around for all that much longer, and they'll gradually be cycled out and replaced by younger voters who grew up in a more tolerant era."
Posted this earlier, but it's worth repeating here. Michelangelo Signorile talks to a Mormon from Texas who donated to 'Yes on 8'. Definitely worth a listen.
Reverend Irene Monroe in the Huffington Post: "The present-day contentious debate between black and queer communities concerning what constitutes a legitimate civil rights issue and which group owns the right to use the term is both fueled and ignored by systemic efforts by our government that deliberately pits both groups against each other rather than upholding the 13th and 14th Amendments to the U.S. Constitution that affords each of these marginal groups their inalienable rights. While it is true that the white LGBTQ community needs to work on its racism, white privilege, and single-issue platform that thwart all efforts for coalition building with both straight and queer communities of color, the African-American community needs to work on its homophobia."
L.A. Times: Prop 8 wars rage on Facebook.
This morning I posted about the boycott of the California Musical Theatre by composer Marc Shaiman because of its artistic director's donation to Prop 8. A similar thing is happening in L.A. after it was revealed that the family manager of the popular El Coyote mexican restaurant had donated $100 to 'Yes on 8'. Word spread quickly over the internet and the manager Marjorie Chrisoffersen came forward and issued this statement: "I have been sick at heart that anyone has been offended by me. I have family, friends, employees from the gay community who are treasured people in my life. I have been a member of the Mormon church all my life. I responded to their request with my personal donation. For years the El Coyote has financially and generously supported the gay community and its charities. Please be my guest for an early lunch Wed., Nov. 12th, @ 11:00 am and allow me to personally speak with you. Please call and make a reservation as seating is limited. (323) 939-2255. Margie."
TIME weighs in on activist tactics following the passage of Prop 8.
Aaron Ruell from Napoleon Dynamite ain't so dynamite.
Here are today's earlier Prop 8 posts:
Eyes Turn to California Supreme Court in Proposition 8 Battle [tr]
Hollywood's Gay 'Powerati' Pissed Over Prop 8 [tr]
Musical Theatre Under Fire for Artistic Director's Prop 8 Support [tr]
Equality Utah Calls Bluff of Mormon Church on Gay Rights [tr]
Protect Marriage, Prohibit Divorce [tr]
And last night's big update: Massive Proposition 8 Update: Protests, News, and Video [tr]
And AFTER THE JUMP, a VERY unfortunate incident that happened in Palm Springs at a rally where a cross was torn from a woman's arms and stomped on the ground. This kind of behavior is deplorable imho and not the way to win hearts and minds. It's also an example of how things can get out-of-control at a demonstration — those of you who are going to protest, keep it in mind.
Watch it, AFTER THE JUMP...
(via joe.my.god)
Posted 6:53 PM EST by Andy Towle in California, Gay Marriage, Mormon, News, Proposition 8 | Permalink
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This about the manager of El Coyote. Isn't it just typical. She said, in effect, "I really like my pervert friends. I only supported bigotry because I was asked to." If she's smart enough to run a restaurant, she's smart enough to look at the election issues herself. She just wants to have it both ways. Typical!
Posted by: Luddite | Nov 11, 2008 10:24:16 PM
Ugh. I'm Jewish and if someone tore a Star of David out of my hands and threw it on the ground and stomped on it, that asshole would be dead before he could take another breath.
Posted by: LightningLord | Nov 11, 2008 10:27:03 PM
That analysis by Nate Silver is based on a lot of presumptions that aren't apparent by the data, which he basically acknowledges.
Posted by: LightningLord | Nov 11, 2008 10:33:24 PM
Ooh, you butch Jew, you.
Posted by: jmg | Nov 11, 2008 10:49:49 PM
Fuck all religion.
Posted by: Ronald Reagan | Nov 11, 2008 10:52:14 PM
The article of Time says the case for same-sex marriage is hurting other gay rights:
Longtime gay rights advocate Dean Trantalis of Fort Lauderdale, Fla., and others on the conference call expressed concern that the gay rights movement had become too focused on marriage, and is now paying the price in other more critical areas. "Marriage was never our issue," Trantalis said. "It was thrust upon us by the other side, and they've done a very good job of beating us up over it."
The concern is that conservatives will use those same tactics — statewide referendums aimed at overruling court decisions or rebuffing reluctant legislators — to restrict other rights. In Arkansas, for example, voters easily passed an initiative that did what state legislators had refused to do: ban adoptions and even foster-parent roles for unmarried couples, including gays. Now the state joins Utah, Florida and Mississippi as a place where gay couples cannot adopt. Trantalis and others are worried that even as the gay rights movement continues to win court victories, those very victories may prompt stronger and stronger backlashes, jeopardizing hard-won rights from local governments and the workplace, including adoption and antidiscrimination measures.
Posted by: Fernando | Nov 11, 2008 11:00:50 PM
>>Ooh, you butch Jew, you.
Posted by: jmg | Nov 11, 2008 10:49:49 PM
"Never again" Mary. You can get in line behind the Palestinians and Iranians.
Posted by: LightningLad | Nov 11, 2008 11:16:51 PM
How do we distinguish between the black people who don't get a pass versus those that do?
Or, does the entire community not get a pass because some black people in California didn't vote no?
I'd like to understand how this works.
Posted by: Brandon | Nov 11, 2008 11:16:57 PM
Is the "Fuck Mormons" sign helpful? Fuck, yes!
Should we play the blame game, whether it's aimed at churches, companies, or individuals? Fuck yes!
Should the owner of El Coyote suffer the consequences of her actions? Fuck yes!
Should you accept her apology and continue to eat her canned food? Fuck no!
Should the LGBT shine the same light on the bigoted African American churches as it does on others? Fuck yes!
Should the LGBT community take the blame for the African American support of Prop 8 because we didn't spend time telling them that discrimination was wrong? Fuck no!
Do you think that any minority that was once legally discriminated against but now enjoys full equal protection under the law wants its civil rights struggle identified with the LGBT's? Fuck no!
If anyone thinks that anger, bridled or not, has no place in the fight for equality, then you are a newbie to life and history.
Posted by: John | Nov 11, 2008 11:24:25 PM
White people are so cute when they get angry.
Posted by: LightningLord | Nov 12, 2008 12:08:46 AM
I hope Nancy and El Coyote are forced to pay for their hateful decisions by suffering from a lack of business that results in their closures.
Posted by: New 2nd Class Citizen | Nov 12, 2008 12:10:36 AM
stomping cross is ok, what's the problem?
The problem is religions !
fuck all religions bigots, that's right !
Posted by: willyag | Nov 12, 2008 12:15:27 AM
That Time article is depressing the sh*t out of me if a) it's in any way representative of the truth or b) if anyone reads and believes it.
It's seemed clear that there is strong momentum for justice everywhere for gay people.
The article flat out says it wasn't close, even in CA, where gazillions of dollars were spend to defeat prop 8.
Who wrote that thing? Rush Limbaugh?
Posted by: MammaB | Nov 12, 2008 12:25:40 AM
Wow, RJP3 agrees with Caleb 100%. What a shock.
@ Cameron Johnson, Can you read Caleb's comment and tell me that you really agree with everything he is saying?
Also what do you mean "as a token Black person"??
@Caleb since you seem to be an authority on "DL" then explain to me all the "DL" white people who go to truck stops, bathroom stalls, movie theaters, bathhouses, and male hustlers/masseuses. Do they see homosexuality as a "Black thing"? No? Then what could possibly be the common thread between the DL Blacks and whites? Hmm...could it be religion?
If you believe all that shit about Blacks, then how the hell could you POSSIBLY believe that it is not important to reach out to them? How stupid is it to believe that they would miraculously become sensitive if you are convinced that they insensitive? Were the Mormons supposed to denounce their religion at the polls, too? African American blogger Ernest Hardy put it this way:
"The No On 8 groups did a shitty job getting their message out to various minority groups whose votes hung in the balance and who collectively might have swung the vote a different way if they’d been approached in the first place. By contrast, the Yes On 8 folks rolled out well beyond their natural constituencies, networking with all sorts of folks, being sure to create imagery and to reference cultural signifiers in multiple languages that would play with Black, Latino and Asian voters. Yeah, they lied their lying asses off… but they also did the ground work that No On 8 simply did not."
Even Gloria Nieto, a lead organizer for No on Prop 8 had problems with getting support for community outreach:
"When Nieto, a lead organizer for the No on Proposition 8 campaign in San Jose, wanted to distribute campaign signs in Spanish and Vietnamese this fall, she had to get them made herself because the statewide campaign only had signs in English."
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_10909847?source=most_emailed
She had to make the signs herself?! Really? How is that productive?
This isn't about issuing "passes" to Blacks; this is about you using race to place blame on Blacks for the failure of Prop 8. There is nothing even remotely evenhanded about your rant.
Everyone has as part of the blame. Not just Blacks. Not just whites. Not just gays. Not just Mormons. EVERYBODY!
Posted by: Q | Nov 12, 2008 12:28:31 AM
fuck her free lunch and fuck the mormons.
Posted by: wtf | Nov 12, 2008 12:29:41 AM
Lightninglord: U r crazy. Funny though. I do have to ask myself what would have happened if MLK & the boyz had started acting this crazy. They'd NEVER have won. Does anybody think those guys weren't angry? However, they had enough sense to understand how to play it when they were hopelessly outnumbered.
In terms of resources to make your case, gays are better off than black people were in the 50's and 60's. There are lots of gay people with power in the media. Gays don't have to worry about not being allowed to vote. So, the "anger" needs to be channeled effectively. F Mormon signs? If that's the picture you want in a PR War, great. I'm not sure how that's going to help you win over a majority of voters. You can be sure that those images are going to be used in the next right-wing ballot measure.
Oh, and let's not talk to the Mormon woman at El Coyote that knows gays but donated because her church told her to. If she isn't going to reach out to her Mormon bretheren, who is? Maybe talking to her won't get her to see why gay marriage is important, but maybe it will. At least we can learn why she didn't make the discrimination connection so that we come up with more effective ways of making the case for gay marriage.
There is a reason why MLK has a national holiday and Malcolm X, even post Mecca, doesn't.
Think about it.
Posted by: Brandon | Nov 12, 2008 12:36:50 AM
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THERE IS A PROTEST AT THE MORMON TEMPLE WEDNESDAY AT 5PM. NOT THE SAME OLD PROTEST. THIS TIME WITH A NICE SURPRISE :) SHOULD BE FUN! PLEASE HELP GET THE WORD OUT AND CHECK OUT THE GRASSROOTS ORG THAT FORMED AFTER THE PROTESTS BEGAN...
http://www.endH8now.com
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Posted by: dave | Nov 12, 2008 12:43:02 AM
The problem is that blacks got their civil rights and do not want anybody else to have any.Blacks deem themselves to be very christians but they are so dumb as not to know the Gospels where Jesus do not condemn anybody.If one follows Christ and calls oneself christian, to follow Paul is to be a paulist not a christian.Paul is not Christ but blacks cannot understand the difference.Also if they follow the Old Testament they are following jewish laws but they are not jews. They are blacks, but I guess people without roots will following anything.By the way,Barack Obama has no link to american blacks.Absentee african father,white mother,white grandparents that raised him and white education both gramar and high education.He looks black, but does he feels and thinks black?.American blacks are in for quite an awakening and unexpected surprice.Maybe Michelle will help but to what extent.We'll see...
Posted by: Oscar | Nov 12, 2008 12:53:59 AM
Sign that someone is a racist:
I do not care what the numbers say. I know its the black people's fault.
Many of you are quite sad.
Posted by: The Gay Numbers | Nov 12, 2008 1:25:56 AM
we mustn't upset the people of faith because they might not like us and will take our rights away - oh wait, they already did.
Posted by: wtf | Nov 12, 2008 1:34:14 AM
Appeasement is only good if you suppose that you can convert enough people to make up for the depressed turnout on your side (which public displays of weakness tends to encourage). It is a strategic move and a trade off.
So, to those who say the protestors should just go home, I can't say if that's the right move or not. And neither can you. We simply don't have enough information to know definitively what the consequences of suspending this protest campaign would be.
If everyone went away and act as if nothing has happened, it might be less "offensive" to the religious. And it might create a new sense of calm and civility that's conducive to renewed dialogue. But then again, can you really convince those folks to vote for us? Or are you just wasting time better spent registering voters who are already on our side (and gathering signatures for another election)? That's a big question mark.
And what's the affect of purposefully dampening what's clearly an energized and angry group of potential voters? The gays and straight allies protesting today might sit out the next election because you lowered their morale to the point where they don't care anymore. Ask Tom Daschle and Richard Gephardt about that!
Posted by: John in CA | Nov 12, 2008 2:30:24 AM
Brandon, the reason MLK has a national holiday and Malcom X does not, doesn't take any "thinking about it". Old white men make these decisons for the rest of us. Malcom scared 'em. MLK didn't. Both were soldiers on the side of right.
It takes all efforts to gain rights. There's no Peace if there's no Violence. There's no Order if there's no Anarchy.
Lambda and ActUp both achieved success for you and me.
Posted by: John | Nov 12, 2008 2:55:29 AM
A Mormon making money by selling booze to gays. Now that's Hypocritical! Maybe her church will help support her now. BOYCOTT El Coyote!!!! It has always been way over rated anyway!!!
It will not be missed!!!
See you at Marix!!!
Posted by: Geo | Nov 12, 2008 2:57:20 AM
Wow, that Margie idiot isn't doing herself any favors with her "apology".
"Oh, I feel so bad that I have offended people. I have friends and family who mean the world to me who are gay." - Well, then, why the hell did you donate money to and vote (I assume) to revoke their right to marry, you idiot?!
It's one thing to just be ignorant and bigoted if one doesn't have much exposure to a world and hasn't learned that it's normal and, etc., etc. It's a whole other thing altogether to actually have that exposure, to claim to have beloved and cherished gay friends and family members and still be a bigot!
I hope her friends and family disown her.
Posted by: Philip Wester | Nov 12, 2008 5:43:54 AM
CHICAGO: Speak out against Propostiion 8 which has stripped the California LGBT Community of their recently granted right to marry.
Where? Federal Plaza, Chicago (Dearborn + Adams)
When? Saturday, November 15th @ 12:30pm
Posted by: New 2nd Class Citizen | Nov 12, 2008 6:14:11 AM