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1. I'm in an interracial relationship. My partner is a person of color. He's a double minority. That means he has to deal with racism from stupid white people, and homophobia from BOTH stupid white people and stupid people of color.

   Blacks alone shouldn't be singled out and blamed for passing Prop 8.

   But the blacks who voted yes should damn well know better, and they should be called out as the ignorant, selfish, homophobic hypocrites that they are.

   Posted by: Eshto | Nov 7, 2008 10:12:41 PM

   
   

2. Hit the nail on the head with that one, Eshto.

   Posted by: Derek in Madison | Nov 7, 2008 10:28:30 PM

   
   

3. I have proudly added "I am a fighter of H8" to my business website.

   Posted by: Rad | Nov 7, 2008 10:45:51 PM

   
   

4. I just got home from being a part of the vigil in Santa Barbara...about 500 people turned out to state loud and proud that Santa Barbara county voted no on 8. People of all walks shared their stories and opinions in an open forum that included heteros, gays, lesbians, clergymen, elected officials, married couples, parents...it was an inclusive group on citizens. After an hour or so of sharing our points of view, we took the vigil to a State Street and marched in protest of discrimination...in front of the quaint cafes, the lines at the theaters, the tourists and the locals, we chanted, we cheered, we let everyone within eyesight or earshot that 8 is hate and it is wrong.

   We urge everyone here in California to keep your bumper stickers on, to keep your yard signs up...because for us, this fight is not over, the fight for equality.

   Posted by: Steven Dawson | Nov 7, 2008 10:51:00 PM

   
   

5. The fact that you say " blamming us (gays) for the black vote against us?" is so separatist and divisive as if I or others aren't even included as gays - we are!

   Cut the sole victim shit as if gays of all colors didn't suffered at the hands of their own communities and 52% of white Californians. We hurt too that some members of our black community voted YES as disadvanted people of the struggle.

   Blacks are being separated from the gay community as scapegoats for a disjointed front LACKING UNITY to stop this measure when many factors are to blame: One being the lack of gay votes of up to 1,000,000, misleading mailers to Barack supporters & higher percentages of support from larger populations like pentecostal Korean-Americans. It should be restated that BLAME IS FUTILE.

   So please take pause as you continue to commit yourself to the idea that all blacks voted this way cuz the news says so - I could name plenty blacks right now that would prove we don't vote as a monolith.

   The fact that you shaped your mouth to say snidely "well, sh*t...with friends like you..." makes it clear that you, not knowing most black people in CA let alone on the blog, have decided that blacks are not your friends and gays are white. Sad & divisive.

   This was religious, not racial - get your facts straight so we can all learn from this and REGROUP to make marriage for all.

   I also agree with ESTHO.

   Posted by: Supporter of NO H8TE | Nov 7, 2008 10:54:09 PM

   
   

6. "well, sh*t...with friends like you..."

   K

   Broad strokes are the sloppiest! You clearly don't have any close gay black friends (if any at all) because if you did you would have a more nuanced opinion as well as some semblance of empathy for someone other than yourself.

   Gay people of color are suffering just as much as you are - and now they are suffering because of you as well.

   With brothers like you...

   
   

   Posted by: Giovanni | Nov 7, 2008 11:04:31 PM

   
   

7. Hey, all this flailing about casting aspersions on groups for voting YES conveniently ignores the fact that the NO campaign pu-bas ran a reletively lackluster and weak campaign! Where was the outreach to the black and latino communities? Why was there no emphasis on the civil rights implications of the proposition, and absolutly no reference to the Supreme Court's "Loving" decision of 1967 which outlawed all laws against interracial marriage. There is moral equivalence between that decision and what is trying to be accomplished with gay marriage today. Those might have been more effective strategies for advancing the cause of American civil rights and would have dovetailed nicely with Obama's message of this election moving the country toward "a more perfect union." So easy to blame this group or that for the outcome, but when it comes right down to it the nut of it echos McCain. A weak campaign strategy, ineffective rhetoric.
   It might also have something to do with the fact that "gay marriage" was originally a comformist Log Cabin Republican agenda item intended to help gays ascend to normalcy vis a vis straight society. A lot of queers could really give a shit about that, myself included, so in reality that might have tended to dilute interest in and commitment to this effort.
   Fuck marriage. That's really church domain. A focus on civil unions for all, domestic partnership, civil rights and equality before the law is at the heart of this struggle, so why not fight the battle on that turf.

   Posted by: Tim | Nov 7, 2008 11:07:20 PM

   
   

8. Isn't this the perfect time to organize another march on Washington?

   Posted by: Brett Huaton | Nov 7, 2008 11:19:04 PM

   
   

9. @Giovanni:

   A WEDDING is a religious ceremony. It carries no legal weight whatsoever.

   A MARRIAGE is a civil contract with the government. It is purely secular.

   A CIVIL UNION is another kind of civil contract, with less legal standing than marriage.

   There are thousands of laws in this country that use the specific legal term "marriage". Not civil union.

   Posted by: Eshto | Nov 7, 2008 11:35:20 PM

   
   

10. I think it's time to burn a few of those African/Methodist/Baptist churches down. And they should burn down the local HRC while they're at it for doing such a TERRIBLE job. Ellen Degeneres is a coward. Apparently they all deserve each other.

    Posted by: Kevin Cahill | Nov 7, 2008 11:57:55 PM

    
    

11. I haven't seen anyone here saying that the passage of Prop 8 was SOLELY because of Black people. That would truly be scapegoating.

    What I have seen is people expressing astonishment that 70% - SEVENTY PERCENT! - of African-Americans voted to eliminate the civil rights of another group and enshrine discrimination into the state constitution.

    What I've also seen is whenever someone points out their astonishment, anger, and dismay at this fact is the attempt to shut them up through shrieking accusations of racism.

    Look people, this is a fact and it is supported not only by the exit polling for Prop 8 but in many reputable public opinion polls related to public attitudes towards gay marriage and homosexuality in general: by and large, African-Americans are, at best, unsupportive of gay rights and, at worst, actively hostile.

    It is not racist or scapegoating to point this out. You can deny it all you want, put your hands over your ears and scream "I can't hear you!" but it won't deny that fact.

    The fact that our so-called leaders in the gay community and their lemming followers who would follow them off the edge of a cliff into the abyss of political correctness choose to ignore this basic fact does not make it any less real.

    You can choose to ignore it and continue to face difficulty convincing a portion of the electorate who is motivated more than ever to go out to the polls now that they have experienced what they can do by electing an African-American as President of the United States, or you can acknowledge and address the issue head on by initiating an ongoing dialogue with the African-American community and talking to them in their own language, which, in the area of family and sexuality, is often not spoken about or understood in the abstract language of rights but in the lived experience of religion and morality.

    The choice is yours. Don't hate the messenger just because you don't like the message.

    Posted by: LightningLord | Nov 8, 2008 12:17:16 AM

    
    

12. Right now I don't have an answer --- but there are a million questions going through my mind. How was same-sex marriage passed in other countries? What exactly made people realize that it was a human equality issue, even though they may not have 'approved' of men marrying men and women marrying women? Some of those countries were not founded on Judeo-Christian values like the US(90% of people believe that), but yet some of them have religion deeply rooted in their society.

    Protests and marches are important because they serve to keep the fight alive, and let the opponents know it is NOT over, even though they are basking in their so-called victory.

    But there is more that needs to be done. I'm not sure that it will be possible to change people's minds who make their decisions based on what they perceive the Bible to say. I consider the Bible to be irrelevant when it comes to making the laws of this country, but there is a huge majority who don't think that way.

    There has to be even more separation of religion and the government. If civil unions were made legal (nationally), would that at least be a step toward what we want to achieve? Some people say that it should be marriage equality or nothing, but I just don't see that happening. I was not surprised at all that Prop 8 passed. So if the focus is shifted to a government recognition of a partnership (civil union, so to speak), is that what we should fight fot?

    Again, just a lot of questions... no solutions tonight.

    Posted by: k | Nov 8, 2008 12:28:06 AM

    
    

13. Right now I don't have an answer --- but there are a million questions going through my mind. How was same-sex marriage passed in other countries? What exactly made people realize that it was a human equality issue, even though they may not have 'approved' of men marrying men and women marrying women? Some of those countries were not founded on Judeo-Christian values like the US(90% of people believe that), but yet some of them have religion deeply rooted in their society.

    Protests and marches are important because they serve to keep the fight alive, and let the opponents know it is NOT over, even though they are basking in their so-called victory.

    But there is more that needs to be done. I'm not sure that it will be possible to change people's minds who make their decisions based on what they perceive the Bible to say. I consider the Bible to be irrelevant when it comes to making the laws of this country, but there is a huge majority who don't think that way.

    There has to be even more separation of religion and the government. If civil unions were made legal (nationally), would that at least be a step toward what we want to achieve? Some people say that it should be marriage equality or nothing, but I just don't see that happening. I was not surprised at all that Prop 8 passed. So if the focus is shifted to a government recognition of a partnership (civil union, so to speak), is that what we should fight fot?

    Again, just a lot of questions... no solutions tonight.

    Posted by: k | Nov 8, 2008 12:30:13 AM

    
    

14. HERE HERE TIM!!!!

    Common sense would have told HRC and others to do at least 1 prominent commercial on the Loving case tieing our plight together with the racism of the past (sadly quite a part of present day gay community it seems . Our current supposed gay leaders failed us completely.
    ------------------------------

    That said, the raicism flaring up within our community is shameful and appears to be coming mostly from log cabinites feeling it is now ok to let loose their racist BS due to current circumstances.

    Almost every example of racism from a gay man all seem to be coming from those who in the past praised mcshame and the whole neo con agenda.

    Well it is not OK you small minded fucks. OUR gay leaders in CA failed us, WE failed ourselves, etc End of story.

    The Black church folk are only going to solidify their opinions of us due to your attitudes and BS.

    Our own fucking brothers and sisters of color are becoming afraid to walk freely, safely, and happily through our areas. That is despicable. This white boy won't stand for it

    We the gay community failed on prop 8.......... end of subject. Time to fix that by going to the courts and prepping our GOTV ground game for 2 yrs hence when we can put our own initative on the ballot if the courts fail us.

    Take the racism and shove it back up your neocon racist asses.

    
    

    Posted by: Jimmyboyo | Nov 8, 2008 12:34:37 AM

    
    

15. LIGHTNINGLORD: Your words should be sent out in a mass email to every gay blogger. So well said, so articulate, so factual, and so needed.
    I resent being made to feel guilty over someone else choosing to vote on hate.
    There is wide spread dismay of the gay community in the African American community, and it's not because of anything we've inflected on the African American community (more so than any other group of people). The frustration toward that 70% is well reasoned and justified.

    Posted by: Compec | Nov 8, 2008 12:45:39 AM

    
    

16. make the bigots defned themselves. go chat with a mormon missionary at www.mormon.org

    Posted by: dennis | Nov 8, 2008 1:08:38 AM

    
    

17. Ok Folks,

    Here's the deal; I know that there are hundreds of thousands of people [perhaps even millions] who are outraged at the legislation of discrimination that Prop 8 and it's supporters have brought about. So....

    [Preface] have any of you seen the movie "A Day Without a Mexican" ?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8t8DCSP020

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0377744/

    What if WE [the LGBTQ population] took a REAL STAND HERE and used this as an example of what WE CAN DO?

    What if WE LIVED the Obama creed "YES WE CAN" and took matters into our OWN HANDS and organized a day in which EVERY [LGBTQ Person] took 24 hours off of work, closed down businesses, ceased using credit cards, ceased shopping, etc.....to show our solidarity and to show that this state and this country CANNOT do without us.

    *Of course there are long-term things that we can do as far as boycotting businesses, etc. are concerned. This idea is just one more thing that we can add to the arsenal*

    If the rest of the population wants the services that we provide as a population, then they need to GIVE US OUR RIGHTFUL equality.

    I think that we CAN and SHOULD do this.

    What do you all think?

    Pass this on to EVERYONE THAT YOU KNOW WHO YOU FEEL SUPPORTS OUR RIGHT TO EQUALITY
    [In other words your friends...because let's face it. If someone you know thinks of you as a second or third-class citizen, then they are NOT your friend]

    Peace and Love to All

    
    

    Posted by: sfnative64 | Nov 8, 2008 1:19:55 AM

    
    

18. Right now all we are doing is the same thing the Republicans are doing. Creating a circular firing squad and shooting ourselves. This is not my idea of how to run a railroad or a grassroots protest movement. Let's get some facts and solutions into this discussion and get away from the mutual nastygramming.

    1. The African-American community (and the Latino community) need more grassroots outreach. Education is the only thing that is going to thaw this iceberg and driving a wedge in between gay people of color and others is not a really good idea.

    2. The HRC style of management of our rights and issues has merit in some areas, but I view their efforts over the years to be wholly inadequate in getting the average LGBT person fully involved in the process of securing our rights. HRC, GLAAD and the like are terrific at addressing the "insider" approach, but they cannot haul the freight for us. We have to be active and involved, just writing a check and putting a bumper sticker on a car is not nearly enough for this.

    3. An embarassing number of LGBT folks did not even bother to get out and vote. How can we say we are repressed whenever we don't get out and defend ourselves? As much as it pains me to say this, it took something like this to galvanize our community.

    4. I KNEW we were in trouble when the No on 8 campaign, couldn't even come up with a coherent message and changed tack less than two weeks until the election. What makes this even worse is that EVERYONE gave their spare dollars to the Obama campaign, and this left not a lot in the pot for fundraising our self-defense. I do not begrudge us the effort to elect Barack Obama, he is the first candidate I have felt a genuine sense of pride in voting for, but we need to prioritize better.

    5. We need to target the LDS Church and make them pay a heavy price for their actions, not only that but tactically boycott every Church and Mormon owned major corporation.

    6. We need to hold our politicians collective feet to the fire, we have some pretty good allies here like State Sen-Elect Mark Leno and LA Councilman/Council President Eric Garcetti, but we must make clear that half-measures are no longer acceptable. I am sick of hearing equivocating on their part. Civil Unions are NOT acceptable anymore. It gives legislatures and elected officials the opportunity to not give us all of the rights we are LEGALLY and CONSTITUTIONALLY entitled to. This is a civil rights issue and I don't care how bad certain evangelical and organized churches get their feelings hurt.

    This is nothing less than an attack on us, ALL of us. Pointing fingers at subgroups inside the LGBT community is pretty darn foolish. This fight will be hard and we need everybody to pull their weight.

    A final note, we need to hold our interest groups accountable for their actions. From now on, I will be insisting on a report of how they are spending the money I donate. I encourage you all to do so as well.

    Please think about what I have posted this morning. I think we have the chance to advance this fight onto their side of the field, and we can't do that fighting each other.

    JC
    Los Angeles, CA

    Posted by: JC | Nov 8, 2008 3:26:28 AM

    
    

19. I think the protests are great, it is bringing the gay community together, which it hasn't been in a long time. However, even though the Mormon's orchestrated the movement for the passage of proposition 8, they were not the only church involved. There are those saying we need to protest against black and latino churches, they are correct in a way, but don't throw race into the fight, keep it at the churches, like the Baptist, Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, etc. they were the ones preaching from the pulpit. They are the ones that need to be protested against. There is no such thing as the black or latino church; that might be the congregations make-up, but the clergy are the ones who drilled it into their congregations head. The congregations were told that this came down from GOD!!!

    Posted by: MP | Nov 8, 2008 3:52:00 AM

    
    

20. If you are gay and living anywhere in the United States and you did not vote in this election, what is is your problem? I suspect you are not reading this because you must not have access to a computer.
    Get access, get off your butts and do something meaningful for yourself and the other people in this country who consider you a family member. The problem with the failure of No on 8 in CA was not the AA vote, the problem was the voter turnout of the gay vote.

    Posted by: dennis | Nov 8, 2008 4:12:16 AM

    
    

21. I will be in front of the Public Affairs Office of the LDS Church at noon today, Saturday 11/08/08 at 125 columbus and 65th St. with a sign. Anyone is welcome to join!

    Posted by: Bading | Nov 8, 2008 4:50:34 AM

    
    

22. "LIGHTNINGLORD: Your words should be sent out in a mass email to every gay blogger. So well said, so articulate, so factual, and so needed.
    I resent being made to feel guilty over someone else choosing to vote on hate.
    There is wide spread dismay of the gay community in the African American community, and it's not because of anything we've inflected on the African American community (more so than any other group of people). The frustration toward that 70% is well reasoned and justified."

    Many of the gay blacks on here have repeatedly denounced black homophobia but whenever anyone has mentioned gay racism toward ethnic minorities...nothing but rancor.

    There's been reports that black people have been called racial slurs and threatened with violence at anti-prop 8 rallies...and what is there from all of you? Silence.

    I plan on writing a lengthy essay on the history of racism in the gay community. I think sending it to every right-wing columnist, conservative organization, anti-gay groups, large influential churches, is going to be the only way to get us talking about it.

    Is there anyone else out there who'd like to join me in constructing such a project?
    

    Posted by: DamonMD | Nov 8, 2008 5:13:54 AM

    
    

23. From my limited observations, I think that the reason the AA community is so offended that we compare our struggle to theirs is because they feel that our sexuality is a choice whereas their skin color is not. Perhaps we need to try to educate.
    Also, the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms lists sexual orientation as a protected class. This was the legal premise that our Supreme Court used to legalize same-sex marriage. Maybe gay Americans could/should be fighting for sexual orientation to be added to the Constitution as a protected class. A "back-door" approach, pardon the pun.

    Posted by: D.R.H. | Nov 8, 2008 8:09:34 AM

    
    

24. Damond, then you are absolutely no better than someone who gay bashed, used the word faggot toward a gay individual and voted YES on 8- all in same day. To throw another dart at a community...YOUR community...that is already down, shows the level of spite you must have trapped inside you. We are an angry people (with every right to be). We're not angry at black people, but the black people who voted against gay rights. We're not angry at white people, but the whites who voted against us. We're not angry at every person who attends church, we're angry at churchgoers who strip our rights. Put it in pespective and stop trying to play victim toward a minority group who truly ARE victims of hate this week. Gays do not have any resent for our gay black brothers & sisters. We love you, need you, want you to fight with us. But you going and threatening to email Fox News some selacious sketchy piece on how shady we are? In the infamous words of our greatest detractors "I'll say a prayer for you"

    Posted by: K | Nov 8, 2008 8:27:33 AM

    
    

25. I was overjoyed about Obama's victory but prop 8 was a bitter pill in deed. It's ironic that what put him in the Whitehouse - the swelling of African American votes - also helped prop 8's success. It's an important lessen for us. While we had to get the rats out, the Democratic party is not necessarily any better than the republican on what's best for gays. I believe we would have fared just as well in a room of red necks or republicans as with African American voters --I'm sure we could find 3 in 10 rednecks or republicans that would support gay marriage. I can now see the Log Cabin perspective and no longer call myself Democrat (instead independent) and my best self interest will dictate future voting.

    Posted by: P in Hartford | Nov 8, 2008 9:14:47 AM

    
    
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