11/17/2008
No More Mr. Nice Gay? Christians Chased from Castro
On Friday night, before the day of protest we saw across the nation, a conflict erupted in San Francisco's Castro District between a group of residents and a group of Christians who reportedly meet every Friday on the same corner to preach to gays and lesbians about 'converting' into heterosexuals. This time, they were met by an angry mob and the conflict grew so large riot police were called to the area as the Christians were basically chased out of the neighborhood.
KTVU reports: "'Their rights were respected,' said Joe Schmitz, an opponent of Prop 8. 'They got a chance to go ahead and pray on the sidewalk and I had the opportunity to express my freedom of speech which is telling them to get out of my neighborhood.' San Francisco Police officers in riot gear formed a line and escorted the religious group into a van to safely get them out of the area. Members of the gay community insisted that their reaction to the Christian group was spontaneous. 'It was not an organized thing. We're tired of it. It's not religious. It's not a racial thing. It's about hate. We're trying to send a message across the world that we're standing up and we don't want this to go on anymore,' said Adam Quintero."
According to Joe.My.God, the religious right is already using the video (which you can see AFTER THE JUMP) as an example of the "intolerance" the gay community has toward the religious. While most of us know the hypocrisy behind that accusation, no doubt their followers eat these kinds of incidents up (just like this one).
Watch it, AFTER THE JUMP...
Posted 7:27 AM EST by Andy Towle in Activism, Evangelicals, News, San Francisco | Permalink
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Well this was nice to see, and I don't feel bad for that Christian group, for a couple of reasons. First of all, even the average straight Californian or San Franciscan knows the Castro is a special neighborhood for gay people, it's really one of, if not the, biggest centers of gay life and culture in America, like Provincetown, or Chelsea in Manhattan. And these people have the audacity to come into this neighborhood that they know holds special significance and start "praying" and whatnot for people to change. Is this an example of Christian compassion? To me, probably like most other gay men, it seems like a slap in the face. Gay people don't try to "change" Christians by protesting and praying and making out outside the Vatican. It's insulting, condescending and in a way, it's harassment. It's an organized group of people going to the heart of the most special gay neighborhood, telling them they need to change or what...I guess be doomed to hell? And people wonder why gay people are angry? Enough of this crap. Enough! Our civil rights were put up for a referendum...a popular vote. And we lost the marriage battle, again. Just a set back, I believe, as we will win the war. But imagine if the civil rights of people who wanted desegregation, say in the South, in the 1950s, were put up for a popular vote. It would have been crushed! A popular vote doesn't mean it's the moral vote, or even remotely correct. Gay people can and should be angry. Both sides simply exercised their free speech.
Posted by: Matt | Nov 17, 2008 11:59:38 AM
RE: A's comment... Please don't feed the troll.
Posted by: Marc | Nov 17, 2008 12:01:05 PM
The people that might be using this video to point out how intolerant we are are going to hate us no matter what we do, and I'm tired of some members of our community thinking that if we just didn't act so wild at Pride events, or hid some members of our community, or act this way or that way then the religious right would suddenly wake up and see that we shouldn't be second-class citizens, or even wiped from the face of the planet.
We can't be worried all the time about what we'll look like in every YouTube video.
These people are so insensitive and deluded that they don't realize that coming into a gay neighborhood after Prop. 8 and proselytizing is about as smart as the KKK going to an African-American neighborhood and trying to recruit new members.
Posted by: Mike | Nov 17, 2008 12:05:14 PM
I'd love to see what the Christian right would think of groups of people preaching outside of churches for people to "convert to heterosexuality" or another religion (or atheism), saying it's sinful to make the choice of becoming a Christian and a heterosexual.
I'm sure they'd looove that.
Posted by: Philip Wester | Nov 17, 2008 12:06:51 PM
In response others who have posted about freedom of speech, I agree that all americans have the right to freedom of speech.
But there is a difference between freedom of speech and freedom to harass. These groups are like the groups that protest at the Planned Parenthood clinics and block the entrances forcing the women seeking the service to run the gauntlet pass them.
The group here in Philly has protested only a few feet from the entrance of our bars. The night of the one protest was the first someone a friend of mine had come out and running past these people to get inside was traumatic to say the least.
There is a difference between freedom of speech and freedom to intimidate. I firmly believe that goals of many of these people is to intimidate people and frighten them. These groups are trying perform outrageous intimidation while cloaking it in the blanket of protected speech.
While I will defend everyone's right to free speech, I also believe that you free speech is not a free pass to block, intimidate and frighten people.
Posted by: Ed | Nov 17, 2008 12:07:09 PM
HRC is the Neville "Make Peace" Chamberlain of gay civil rights. Ask the English how pacifism and appeasement and tolerance worked with the Nazis. How has pacifism, appeasement, tolerance worked for us since Stonewall? Not very well since we keep losing rights left and right and more and more vicious hate crimes are being committed.
NO MORE MR/MS NICE GLBTQ!!!
The time to be polite, tolerant, and quiet are over with. It is now time (and past) to get loud and get in their faces. The only way to get a bully off your back is to kick 'em in the nuts and then kick 'em in the teeth. I know this from personal experience. You don't give the bully your lunch money.
Posted by: Wheezy | Nov 17, 2008 12:31:57 PM
Dude, fuck tolerance. I'm so over being tolerated by a group of people who not only think that I'm going to hell, but that I "chose" to be a part of a much maligned minority group because it's fun. We've been tolerating their antics, lies and and bigotry for years, and I, for one, am tired of it.
I accept that these so-called "Christians" (though there is nothing Christ-like about them) have the right to say whatever they want, but standing judging people is just plain rude, and I'm quite pleased that their venom was finally met with a show of strength.
Posted by: Cameron | Nov 17, 2008 12:43:18 PM
Seeing as how I can seen that corner from my living room window through which has passed the sound of their arrogant hatred in the center of the community's living room for years, I was THRILLED that this happened!
My only regrets: it didn't happen at least two years ago about the time this particular group started show up [they aren't there every Friday but I was shocked to seem them there after Prop H8TE; and that I missed the actual confrontation.
I passed them on the way to the Sausage Factory with a friend and yelled, "Go fuck yourselves," frustrated that I, like the other sole challengers I've seen confront them in the past are essentially helpless. Then, walking back to my apartment I was stunned upon seeing eight...count them...EIGHT police cars, lights flashing, in the intersection and the PHONY Christians gone.
NOTA BENE: This is NOT about trying to educate THEM except in the sense that we finally AS A GROUP stand up to them and denounce them TO OTHERS for what their are: dangerous, fascistic bigots, who just used their organizational strength and wealth, much of it TAX FREE, under the SHIELD of "religious freedom" to pass the 21st Century equivalent of the Nuremberg Laws ..just as they have in several other states.
Instead of German Nazis ripping the civil rights away from Jews with those laws, and American racists ripping rights away from blacks with Jim Crow laws, we're the target now, and just as the world condemned the Nazis EVENTUALLY and American racists EVENTUALLY, we much teach THEM to condemn THESE BIGOTS.
Short of physically attacking them, I totally support this. And DENOUNCE those gays who want us to do nothing more than sing "Kumbaya" to our graves. And that includes the Seattle lesbian who organized Friday's nationwide protests but doesn't get it herself. She believes [according to 365gay.com] we should leave the Mormons alone AND that churches SHOULD have the right to DECIDE what OUR relationships are called!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We MUST disrupt the lives of our enemies the same way blacks did with the bus boycotts and lunch counter sit ins. And if you don't think fear of the consequences of perpetuating Jim Crow laws did not play a significant role in their elimination then you know nothing of history.
And if the gay and lesbian pansies in the Bay Area hadn't succeeded in virtually erasing the White Night Riot in San Francisco after Dan White got away with TWO murders Prop 8, even 22, might never have dared be put on the ballot; even Matthew Shepard, Gwen Araujo, ad infinitum might still be alive.
Do I mean I want straight bigots to be afraid of us. DAMN FUCKING RIGHT, I do!
Posted by: Michael Bedwell | Nov 17, 2008 12:53:26 PM
Outstanding! It's time we stood up for our rights, too.
We had the same thing at our protest in Tucson. Same well behaved crowd on our side, one nut on their side: a homeless guy in a motorcycle jacket that said "Jesus", screaming at us. One person yelled back, and we all just started our peaceful march away from him.
What would have been the reaction in a African American or Hispanic neighborhood if a bunch of bigots started there? Why are we vilified for having a pretty calm reaction like this?
Posted by: Craig | Nov 17, 2008 1:04:47 PM
Way to go! Let's fight back. Let the 2nd Stonewall Riots begin!
Posted by: James Ashburn | Nov 17, 2008 1:10:41 PM
I don't feel sorry for these people at all. Boo Hoo, Where's my tiny violin?
Posted by: MissNee | Nov 17, 2008 1:35:01 PM
The only christian anyone should welcome into their neighborhood is Christ himself. Anyone else enter as a christian, enter at your own risk. These weren't christians, they were impostors, like the schmucks that sent them.
Posted by: paisleyface | Nov 17, 2008 1:52:25 PM
This is what has to happen. Fight back! Make those evangelical assholes quake in their bigoted little boots.
Posted by: mike | Nov 17, 2008 2:32:01 PM
I live in Alabama, outside of B'ham, and from a family that is Church of God (on my dad's side).The strange thing is that this is the side with the "gay" gene. I agree, it's time we start getting back in their faces when they(religous fanatics) start talking their crap. I do it all the time with my family, I'm so tired of hearing how I'll burn in hell for being gay (not to mention the fact they all know I have AIDS). The only thing those comments have made me do is turn away from all things religous and I have even told them I do not believe in God (got some really nice looks then). But I will not stop going to family events, i like to represent my cause in person. Gotta love the deep south with all their religous intolerance. I told them recently that if we should "preserve the sancity of marriage", then we should outlaw devorce. After all, straights have been messing up marriage since day one!! What would their Jesus do? He would tell them to shut up their hate and stop judging people!!!
Posted by: Stephen | Nov 17, 2008 2:45:55 PM
Confront the straight supremacists? Absolutely. The days when each of us, seemingly alone, must silently suffer this affront to our dignity and rights are over. None of us is alone--we are united. And we are right. We oppose the organized anti-gay bigots who invade our communities just to defame our souls, our families, and our community.
But next time, let's organize and plan. Let's confront the bigots in a way that cannot be used against us on youtube. I think we can be even more effective if we were to, say, hold a mass sit-in all around them and drown them out with singing, chanting, etc.
We can make a path for their exit, should the cops wish to rescue them from their predicament, and we can turn our backs to them as they leave. After we've liberated our neighborhood from anti-gay bigotry masquerading as religion, we can holler and whoop and whatever. That would make for good youtube.
Posted by: leschuck | Nov 17, 2008 3:04:43 PM
Please everyone look at A's comment above: the hyperlink is to www.armyofgod.com. Seems to be a Rev. Spitz out of VA.
You know, Reverend, it seems awful funny that a man of the cloth such as yourself is looking at a gay website. I have a couple questions for you:
1) Is that paroxysm of hate you wrote in the comments here your way of getting back to "straight" after viewing lots of pictures on this site of half-clothed men that got you hot and hard? I bet it III-IS...
2) Did your Lord ever use the word "faggot" in his sermons? Seems all I can remember is a bunch of nice things about love: loving your enemy and your neighbor, etc. He was such a nice guy, too bad filth like you is here to represent him now.
3) I'm pretty sure you're a homo, your words reveal you as a hypocrite, and it is certain that you are a coward. That's all.
P.S. I love this video. Ever notice how Christian protesters are generally really unhealthy looking? Like, either really fat and out of shape, or really thin and malnourished? I can't wait till the riots in the streets between the gym-sculpted queers and the softball-hurling lesbians on one side, and those "fine" specimens of Christian America on the other. Cage match, anyone?
Posted by: Andalusian Dog | Nov 17, 2008 3:08:01 PM
Intolerance the gay community has toward the religious community? What a joke! They brought their propoganda to the Castro. The got what they deserved.
Posted by: Harry | Nov 17, 2008 6:22:29 PM
while i am never one to espouse violence, when i hear of X'tian H8, i am reminded of Woody Allen's quote from "Manhattan":
Has anybody read that Nazis are gonna march in New Jersey? Y'know, I read this in the newspaper. We should go down there, get some guys together, y'know, get some bricks and baseball bats and really explain things to them.
Posted by: nic | Nov 17, 2008 7:54:12 PM
It's about time. Guess what? The so-called religious right has been bullying us for a long time. We have to get over not being "liked" all the time.
Posted by: mtg | Nov 17, 2008 8:42:29 PM
About damn time SOMEONE took out the trash! BEGONE Bible thumpers!! Away with thee and your lies!
Now if I can just get rid of those damn pesky Jehovah's Witnesses that freaking bother me when I am @ the Laundromat!
Posted by: Mike | Nov 17, 2008 10:28:05 PM
I'm so sick of these assholes thinking they deserve any respect after their actions of ultimate disrespect and dehumanization. Showing up in THE gay neighborhood and preaching their tired shit after recent events is inching close to yelling fire in a crowded theater. I'm all for free speech, and I don't really care what their religious, political or other views are, but no one has a right to incite, and this kind of thing comes close enough that I don't blame those challenging them and booting them out of the Castro. If I had been there I probably would have joined in.
Posted by: So Left I'm Right | Nov 17, 2008 11:45:54 PM
Back in the days of Queer Nation there was a christianist group that would come to West Hollywood and prosleytize and tell us that AIDS was god's punishment. Queer Nation decided to meet them on Santa Monica Boulevard every Friday night and counter their claims. One night, someone asked them how they'd feel if we went to their church and told them they were going to hell. Someone else said, "Hey, that's a great idea!" So a few weeks later we infiltrated their church and brought a few hundred protesters down to Orange County to demonstrate in front of their church on Sunday morning. It was great! They never came back to West Hollywood and we got to give them a taste of their own medicine. I think we should do this kind of thing more often!
Posted by: Hamp | Nov 18, 2008 12:13:43 AM
That KTVU report did not do a good job of reporting what really went on. A better report was posted here: http://voiceofrevolution.askdrbrown.org/2008/11/18/kingdoms-in-conflict-castro-district-mob-assaults-group-of-young-christians/
Posted by: Marcus French | Nov 18, 2008 1:12:43 AM
@MARCUS FRENCH,
you are so full of sh*t.
Posted by: nic | Nov 18, 2008 11:44:52 AM
The video this post links to is posted by user "Intolerant People" and this user is creating a pretty poisonous environment for anyone that wants to reasonably debate the issues provoked by the video.
Therefore I've downloaded it and posted it myself at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS8QCd5b2mU
'Intolerant People' is censoring responses to homophobic comments. A couple of my responses (using reasonable arguments) have been deleted but comments like "Fucking Faggots" have not been touched.
Please edit this post to include the new link (if you want). Thanks.
Posted by: UnionStayshyn | Nov 18, 2008 12:56:51 PM