12/22/2008
Rick Warren Defends Inauguration Invite, Engages Melissa Etheridge
Pastor Rick Warren defended his invitation to Obama's inauguration at the 8th Annual Convention of the Muslim Public Affairs Council in Long Beach, California Saturday, according to the AP:
"Under fire for opposing gay marriage, influential evangelical pastor Rick Warren said Saturday that he loves Muslims, people of other religions, Republicans and Democrats, and he also loves 'gays and straights.' The 54-year-old pastor and founder of Saddleback Church in Southern California told the crowd of 500 that it's unrealistic to expect everyone to agree on everything all the time. 'You don't have to see eye to eye to walk hand in hand,' said Warren...Toward the end of his speech on Saturday, Warren also talked about singer Melissa Etheridge, who performed earlier in the evening. Warren said the two had a 'wonderful conversation' and that he is a huge fan who has all her albums. The openly lesbian gay rights activist even agreed to sign her Christmas album for him, he said."
More on that meeting from Juan Cole:
"I was told that Warren's friends among the MPAC Muslim community had urged him to call Melissa Etheridge Friday night in the run-up to their being (serially) on the same stage Saturday night, and that he did so and they talked for half an hour. During his address, Warren mentioned also seeing Etheridge backstage on Saturday. Local television in Los Angeles showed a short clip of Etheridge after the event asking gay leaders to reach out to Warren, just as they wanted him to reach out to them. This stance was big of her, since she and her partner had planned to marry but were prevented from doing so by the same Proposition 8 that Warren worked for, and she was so upset she suggested she would refuse to pay California taxes since she is obviously not considered a full citizen by her fellow Californians."
Meanwhile, Etheridge's partner Tammy Lynn Michaels, seems to have bought Warren's bullsh*t hook, line, and sinker.
Gay Episcopal Bishop Gene Robinson, who advised Obama several times during his campaign, weighed in on the invitation to Rick Warren, and said that hearing about the selection was like was like "a slap in the face.":
"I’m all for Rick Warren being at the table, but we’re not talking about a discussion, we’re talking about putting someone up front and center at what will be the most watched inauguration in history, and asking his blessing on the nation. And the God that he’s praying to is not the God that I know."
Richard Socarides, former special assistant to President Bill Clinton in charge of gay and lesbian policies, also spoke to the NYT:
"[The decision is a] serious miscalculation that will anger a lot of people and will be hard to undo. It’s not like he’s introducing Obama at some campaign rally in the South. He’s been given this very prominent, central role in the ceremony which is supposed to usher in a new civil rights era."
Also, doughnut campaign underway: "So one gay rights advocate is encouraging supporters of gay marriage to “return the favor” by sending Mr. Warren gift cards to Dunkin’ Donuts. The gift cards, which cost a minimum of $10, can be personalized with pictures of gay couples and supporters. The effort was conceived by Tom Leonard, an Internet marketing consultant in Burbank, Calif., who also created ZeroH8.tv, which is working to place ads in support of gay marriage on cable networks in the wake of a new gay marriage ban in the state."
Melissa Etheridge made remarks after the MPAC event. Watch them, AFTER THE JUMP...
More
Katha Pollitt in L.A. Times: Rick Warren is an insulting choice.
Posted 11:03 AM EST by Andy Towle in Barack Obama, Inauguration, Melissa Etheridge, News, Rick Warren | Permalink
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I'm an Obama fan (not a maniac) but it REALLY disturbs me that a professor of constitutional law from the UofC (my alma mater) can't understand that civil marriage is a civil rights issue, not a social issue and not a religious issue.
Can't someone at least near the top say something sensible about this?
And yeah, who cares what Robinson says. He should recuse himself from discussions of civil marriage when wearing his fancy clothes since it's IRRELEVANT to his job.
Posted by: David R. | Dec 22, 2008 12:58:27 PM
I've agreed with most posts the last few days on this douche bag Warren, but enough of him.
ANDY lets ring out the year and ignore his sorry ass, since it is clear Obama does not give a shit, lets not give him a forum.
Posted by: patrick nyc | Dec 22, 2008 1:13:02 PM
"We have to engage with him and people like him to try to change them. It won't happen overnight and it may not happen at all, but we MUST try."
Angel, that's sweet. Naive and utterly devoid of a sense of historical understanding, but sweet.
There's a difference between "engaging" a bigot and rewarding said bigot with a pulpit in front of an historic and international audience. Our people have been engaging Warren's ilk for a long time. The problem is that evangelicals like Warren don't work from a position of evidentiary support. We can't use reason and facts and double-blind placebo-controlled studies to convince these people of our equal humanity. It doesn't work because the bigotry we're talking here isn't based on opinion, but on belief. Opinions are easily changed, comparatively. When the mountain of evidence reaches a critical mass, opinions usually change. But beliefs? No. Only paradigm-shattering personal experiences can change a belief, and even that is questionable. The know-nothing bigotry of this man and his ilk, even if it is cloaked in blissful and "love"-filled ignorance, is almost impossible to break through.
The only choice is to wait for continuation of the already-progressing decline in right-wing religious ideology, and work to decrease the bigots' political influence in the interim.
And please just type out the word "God". Unless you're orthodox jewish, it's just irritating.
Posted by: The Milkman | Dec 22, 2008 1:14:37 PM
Oscar: I don't know your life experience, but I think I do understand what it is like to be discriminated against. You are upset. I understand. My question to you, and to anyone else that says we don't engage is, what's the alternative? Do we pick up arms?
I imagine that what I'm saying is not what most people want to hear, but which is exactly why I'm saying it.
African Americans did not achieve legal equality by simply ignoring anyone that disagreed. Right now 44 states have constitutional amendments or laws against gay marriage. Gays are a distinct minority.
We have to engage with the Rick Warrens all over America if we want to change opinion.
And as for people changing, I'll cite Malcolm X. Malcolm X hated white people. They were "devils." He advocated the separation of the races. Malcolm, when speaking at a college campus famously told one white woman who said that she wanted to help black equality, that there was nothing she could do. Malcolm went to Mecca and saw that it was possible for different races to live together. He began to CHANGE. He expressed regret for telling the white woman there was nothing she could do.
I am not suggesting for one minute that you tell Warren his opinion is ok. You don't. I am suggesting that you engage with him and the others that disagree with you.
Posted by: Brandon | Dec 22, 2008 1:39:37 PM
I agree with most of the comments. There is no way to "engage" these people. How can you reason with belief? It is their way or no way -- the bible tells them so.
The Warren choice is a colossal blunder and a perfect ilustration of yet another Democrat taking us for granted.
Posted by: Matt | Dec 22, 2008 1:41:10 PM
Oh for Pete's sake... no one's suggesting we take up arms and storm the castle. And no one's saying we should give right wing bigots the "silent treatment", hoping they'll go away. Are we junior high school girls? No.
I keep hearing "engage". What does that mean?
Yes, we can talk with them. Yes, we can even have high-level group meetings. We can try to find areas in which we agree, such as caring for the poor and the sick. (Funny how most of Saddleback's and Bush's AIDS support has been for Africa... and mostly based on abstinence... but whatever.) But there's a difference between engaging the enemy and letting them have a major (if symbolic) role in this historic inauguration. If Warren has the ear of the President, then we and everyone else who cares about equality have a major stumbling block ahead... and we also have a huge axe to grind after all this talk of "hope" and "equality".
Posted by: The Milkman | Dec 22, 2008 1:54:53 PM
Knock yourself out, Brandon. Keep "engaging" these people who call you a pedophile; who strip you of your civil rights, who create an atmosphere where it's deemed appropriate to beat or kill you; who look down upon you as a sinner... as an inherently lesser person.
Seriously, good luck.
Posted by: Oscar | Dec 22, 2008 2:03:16 PM
MIKEMICK and YEEK, perfectly said.
Posted by: nikko | Dec 22, 2008 2:40:27 PM
Brandon, the word "engage" simply means "initiate a meaningful interaction." It does not mean that this interaction has to be inherently respectful. Examples include engaging in debate, engage to be married, engage a transmission, or....engage in battle.
As Dan Savage pointed out, Rick Warren asking people to "disagree without being disagreeable" after he's got what he wanted is like announcing that 'violence never solves anything' right after you've punched someone in the face.
And remember, Warren is not engaging in a dialogue - he's delivering a monologue where there is no counterpoint, no one to challenge his statements, no option for a response. Let "person of faith" Obama set up his dialogue on equal terms for a change, and just maybe I'll give him my attention. Until then, he can get bent.
Posted by: Yeek | Dec 22, 2008 2:42:48 PM
YEEK is my new boyfriend. Y'all bitches better step off.
Posted by: The Milkman | Dec 22, 2008 3:18:11 PM
Thank God! I thought I was the only one choking on my vomit over the Etheridge-Michaels-Warren threesome.
I've been a non-fan of Michaels since her Oprah appearance, and when I think of it still I suddenly long for the time when women were seen and not heard. That she has access to a computer is frightening.
And for the record, I thought Etheridge did a piss-poor job handling Hasselbeck on The View. Any homo with a brain ought to be able to slam dunk that dingbat and all Melissa could do was get tangled up in a pitiful virtual tie with her because she was too darn concerned with being nice.
Bottom line, human dignity has a pretty low selling price in the Etheridge/Michaels household and so I'm not interested in being spoken for by either of them.
One thing I would like to know is -- why, if the word "marriage" doesn't matter to Michaels, does she insist on calling Etheridge her wife? She's not her wife, they didn't get married (and I've about had it with the line that "they can't because of Proposition 8" -- they didn't meet on November 5! They've got two kids, they chose not to get married. 36,000+ of us did). These are the last two people who ought to be acting as spokespeople for gay marriage.
Words like "marriage" may not matter to Michaels, but they matter to me, they matter to my wife, and to our children -- and they sure as hell matter to the Rick Warren's of the world. I'm not conceding anything to these people anymore--least of all my dignity.
Besides, nobody wants my autograph.
Posted by: Anastasia Beaverhausen | Dec 22, 2008 4:42:03 PM
You'll have to fight me for him MILKMAN.
I have the feeling (silly hope?) that Warren is not actually that smart and is too rabid to be hugely popular, esp. after the last 8 years for right wing crap, and that he will flame out (no pun intended?). Yes, he's charismatic, but I don't think he's Billy Graham material.
Posted by: David R. | Dec 22, 2008 4:50:01 PM
Shucks, thanks Milky. But you don't want me. I'm a horrible person most days of the week.
Posted by: Yeek | Dec 22, 2008 4:56:12 PM
I dunno Yeek, being "a horrible person" can be hot sometimes. Depends on how you define that. :-)
Seriously though, Anastasia Beaverhausen has a point (and a thoroughly awesome screen name to boot). "I'm not conceding anything to these people anymore -- least of all my dignity." I see this statement as being indicative of the feelings of most of the GLBT people I know... and I hope that it also means that our people are ready to rise up and fight.
And we will fight whether the foe is Mr. Warren or... surprisingly... Mr. Obama. We may not win, but with the statements I'm hearing from GLBT people all over the place, I'd count on a scorched-earth policy. No more Mr. Nice Gay.
Posted by: The Milkman | Dec 22, 2008 5:47:12 PM
There are some delusional queers on here who would jump in the oven if Obama told them to do it. He's a sick cult leader... have fun drinking the kool-aid!
Posted by: j | Dec 22, 2008 6:00:33 PM
I don't think Rick Warren is cognizant of the pain he has caused and the difference in having a round-table discussion about religious beliefs and taking taking that religious belief and denying people happiness and a civil right. We're not asking him to change his beliefs just don't use them to fuck us over.
Posted by: James Poppinga | Dec 22, 2008 7:03:34 PM
@KJK: the idea to send donut coupons to Warren/Saddleback arose after he was quoted as saying members of Saddleback Church served ice water and donuts to GLBT activists who showed up at Saddleback Church to protest his views on gay/lesbian relationships and on Prop 8.
Posted by: peterparker | Dec 23, 2008 12:25:48 AM
Why are you people ignoring Rev. Lowery? Is he somehow invisible to you or does Warren allow you to feel like a victim and you prefer that.
I love this site but cripes these tears over Warren mark the end of the legitimacy of the American Gay Rights movement.
GROW UP!
Posted by: UnionStayshyn | Dec 23, 2008 12:49:37 AM
Rick Warren is so full of hot air. He just LOVES everyone, when he's not demeaning them.
As for Etheridge, your Christmas song sucked and so does your willingness to ignore a man who helps fuel homophobia through lies and alarmism.
Rick Warren: No donut left behind.
Posted by: SteveDenver | Dec 23, 2008 2:10:16 AM
I hate to tell you so, but I said that Obama is just another politcian, just because he talks more about the Gay community doesn't mean he's going to do anything more than the rest.
Hence his choice of Warren.
If you want to get more done, do with as would any other politician, money speaks volumes.
The calling in Gay day was interesting idea, but wouldn't work, it would just give the rednecks a reason for firing a fag.
Now if the Gay community started closing their purses and pull their money, you would see something happen.
Hit them where their god is, the almighty currency!
Posted by: GaryJ | Dec 23, 2008 9:35:27 AM
No one can take Tammy Michael's seriously as an intellectual....Here is her blog about
Melissa's revelation that Warren may be their friend:
Friday, December 19, 2008
as the universe laughed at me, i got a little spittle in my eye
aw, dammit. so then the universe kicked me in my ass. i was hustling through the back door with arms full of solstice gifts when honey approached me, almost breathless.
"you'll never guess who the keynote speaker is at the Muslim [blah blah] tomorrow night." her eyes were round as my fist, and her glasses were sliding down her nose. multiple names ran through my mind. and then i knew. i knew in a moment. i knew in a moment the way a train can barrel through a car in a moment. not even enough time to inhale.
"fucking rick warren," i stated.
she nodded.
"shit. i just called him a dick in my blog."
she nodded faster. then she grinned a grin like only honey-with-an-idea can grin. that grinch grin when he thinks who-ville is screwed out of christmas, and they're all miserable? that kind of grin. "i've asked to speak to him for 10 minutes. we're all in this together-- i want to reach out and be in this as one. if we really ARE supposed to be tolerant, then we'll talk."
i was agape. i hear about this guy, and i'm calling him crude names of male anatomy parts. honey hears about this guy, and she's all peace-pipe-hold-my-hand-and-sing about it. we need more people like honey. i digress.
which is sometimes better than the point at the time. a digression.
dammit.
posted by Tammy, midwestern girl/Mom | 19.12.08
<< Home
Posted by: Brothermilk | Dec 24, 2008 1:01:30 AM
Tammy is a woman with deep thoughts.
Here is one of my favorite ones:
posted by Tammy, midwestern girl/Mom | 21.12.08
peace, fuckery, and good tidings to all!
i was trying to think of more ways to use "fuck". i just am really enjoying the use of that word in life right now. let's find some more variations of the expressive word, shall we?
fuck
fuckity
fuckerson
fucksonian
fucktard
fuckit to me
fuckdick
fuckhat
fuckwad
fuckification
fucktified
fucktonian
fucklegard
fucknob
fuckhead
fuckshitwad
fucknolia
fuckeronia
fuckeria
fuckteria
fucketting
fuckersoo
fuckwood
fuckidge
fuckridge
fuckolia
and so on... geez, i could go on forever. so fun. i'll add more later as i think of them.
the reason for all things "christmas" is today- winter solstice. happy winter solstice.
oh- and i don't speak for the complete lezzie bean population AT ALL. i don't attempt ta, don't want ta. you's gonna wanna walk right out the door if you's here ta read yerrrrr feelin's/thoughts in my blog, expressed the way YOOOO would express 'em. heh heh. git your own blog, toots, if m'fuckery is too foul-mouthed fer ye. heh heh. and, in spirit of the season: here's a tongue-kiss for anyone who wants one. :-)
Posted by: Brothermilk | Dec 24, 2008 1:05:38 AM
.. that ANYONE be they Etheridge, Obama, or Liberace's ghost would buy this horse manure now-coming out of Warren's camp defies comprehension. WHAT CAN ANYONE who thinks this "reaching across" horseshit is valid be THINKING??
It appears that the legacey of self-loathing we as gay men and women have allowed to subliminally affect our thinking is considerably more profound than previously thought.
HEY MELISSA? He thinks you're a big dyke and that you have no right to marry your partner! GOT IT?
Make no mistake Ms Etheridge is a light weight.
Hey Rick Warren? "Reach across the aisle" and TOUCH THIS!! No wait. Get your fucking hands away from me you glib motherfucker. Even in your teens I bet you were one mealy-mouthed overweight little asshole. I will say, however, I enjoy wathcing you speak from both sides of your face. Quick! Cover those tracks..
"Reach out" my arse.
Posted by: Richard on Cape Cod | Dec 25, 2008 7:12:55 PM
Etheridge is a Quisling or even a Chamberlin. Either way she is a rich Gay who has everything she needs and wants. Because of this she has no clue what goes on at the street level.
Hopefully, I'll never be subjected to her screechings at my lesbian buds parties ever again! That alone would make Warrens invitation worth it.
Posted by: Derek Washington | Dec 28, 2008 12:08:13 PM