White House Considers 'Nuclear Option' Go-It-Alone on Health Care?
The "public option" may yet live as there is talk that the Dems may go-it-alone on health care reform even if it passes by only a single vote.
Anderson Cooper reports on that news, and Rachel Maddow presents a parable on the Republican strategy on health care, AFTER THE JUMP...
And Rachel Maddow with a parable:
Posted Aug. 19,2009 at 8:27 AM EST by Andy Towle in Barack Obama, Democratic Party, Health | Permalink
How is this the Republicans fault? Didn't Obama just say in a town hall the other day it's the far left's fault too? Also, you have a Democratic President, and both houses are democratic majorities, so why haven't you just passed a bill. I'm all for blaming the Repubs when blame is due but this is clearly infighting within the Democratic party.
Posted by: Matt | Aug 19, 2009 9:18:50 AM
Oh come on.
This is SO the Republicans fault.
Obama faukted the far left also in the last hopes of mending bridges and trying to get some bi-partisan support.
But they have finally realized that that isn;t going to happened and they realized it when before they oficially mentioned C0-OPS the Republicans and FOX NEWS was already shooting it down.
And yes WE DO have a Democratic President, and both houses are democratic majorities. But unlkike the past 8 years under the TRUE NAZI's Bush/Cheyny Obama tried to make compromises and try to at least make it bipartisan and ram it through. I know its a but of change and all from Bush.
And I just really want everyone to know I am FAR from an Obama apologist. I am way pissed at him on GLBT issues etc.I believe they waited too long to go the Dem only route. It became obvious weeks ago the Republicans were just beiung douchebags.
But when asses come on here and try NOT TO BLAME The Republicans for all this shit. Then I have to stand up and say something and defend Obama even though I have some major issues myself.
Thank you.
Posted by: Wolfie | Aug 19, 2009 9:56:03 AM
It's not the left-est side of the Dems that is to blame, it's the Blue Dogs. But the Republicans are very much to blame for intentionally muddying the waters by encouraging talk comparing health care to something the Nazis would dream up and Socialism (which, as we all know, is pure evil, snark).
I would be in favor of the nuclear option. The only problem is it will be spun as OMG THE GOVERNMENT JUST GOT HIJACKED!!! And of course every tiny issue that comes up re health care in the future will be blamed on the Dems entirely. That is why bipartisanship, even loosely, is desirable—blame.
Posted by: Matthew Rettenmund | Aug 19, 2009 9:57:39 AM
Matthew let it be Hijacked.
In my opinion it needs to me. So much damage has been doone since REAGAN.
Let the Right Wing Freaks move to compounds in Montana. Thats where they belong anyway
I am fed up with them.
Posted by: Wolfie | Aug 19, 2009 10:00:45 AM
Even with this scenario people keep saying "...need only 51 votes...."
NOPE! only need 50 votes in the senate
the tie breaker/ 51 st can be the VP Biden
If Obama via Rham can't twist 50 Dem senators to vote with the leader of their party/ the president then we dems don't deserve to be in power
Posted by: jimmyboyo | Aug 19, 2009 10:09:10 AM
It probably won't come to it. The White House was shrewd in suggesting they would be amenable to dropping the public option; it outraged the progressive base enough to get them to hit the townhalls and their representatives. I think the Administration realized that they had gravely underestimated the lunacy inherent in the present Republican party and its mobs, not to mention the corporate interests arrayed against reform. There should be more tough talk; the Republicans have no intention of allowing any kind of reform to take place, and the Blue Dogs need to realize that they are not in charge.
Posted by: Zach | Aug 19, 2009 10:10:33 AM
Frankly, I think there's plenty of blame to go around on both sides. First, Obama should have been hands on during the negotiation of the various bills coming out of the house and senate. Instead, he distanced himself expecting the leaders of each chamber to swiftly move this through. Next, instead of getting out in front of this with a clear and concise unified message to the American people (especially seniors) we ended up with a bunch of bits and pieces extracted from various drafts which allowed the Republicans to define it for us before the bills even go into reconciliation. Finally, this whole notion of bipartisanship on an issue this big is idiotic. Even if the Republicans got everything they wanted in a health care reform bill, they STILL WOULDN'T VOTE FOR IT. As for the Blue Dogs, screw them. Go nuclear and get this damn thing passed already.
Posted by: Keith | Aug 19, 2009 10:15:31 AM
Lord you guys crack me up. You guys can't see the forest for the trees.
If the Republicans were in power and were having this mess they would be blaming the Democrats for muddying the waters and planting people at rallies. I mean this goes on all the time on both sides. It's politics.
I swear you liberals are just as blind as the conservatives are to your own party. The reason the Democrats can't get their "blue-dogs" on bored is because 1) they live in more conservative districts or 2) they are up for re-election and don't want to have their vote on health care used against them. Either way it's about them staying around in Washington and not losing their power.
Sure the Republican's are fighting against this but not for the American people. It's about them regaining power.
I just wish everyone on both sides would open their eyes and realize that both parties are not for the people they are for themselves and amassing power.
Posted by: Matt | Aug 19, 2009 10:20:24 AM
Both parties are not for the people they are for themselves and amassing power.
True. They both SUCK
But WHICH is the lesser of two evils?
Posted by: Wolfie | Aug 19, 2009 10:30:45 AM
The Dems will likely retain their majorities in 2010; the Blue Dogs's fears are largely unfounded and irrelevant. Most Americans won't care about reform once something is passed. The Dems will receive far less political damage if they get something through quickly, as opposed to slowing or obstructing the process. By doing so, they are demonstrating that the Democratic Party as a whole is weak, divided, and spineless.
Posted by: Zach | Aug 19, 2009 10:36:42 AM
Wolfie,
The third party candidates or whomever I chose to write in. I understand that third parties hardly, if ever win, but I truly believe this country needs new viewpoints. What's sad is that these guys usually have good/great ideas but they lack the funding to win. Let's face it, in our system today, the golden rule usually prevails. Whoever has the gold makes the rules.
Posted by: Matt | Aug 19, 2009 10:39:11 AM
Who isn't smart enough to look at this comments section purely for the entertainment value and not for any political insight? Yet here is leeennngggttthhhhyyyy propaganda from the cons, posted first and often, maybe paid for, maybe not, but insane all the same.
How desperate are the cons to destroy this country if they even troll this website to make sure they get to do it?
Posted by: ohplease | Aug 19, 2009 10:58:59 AM
ohplease
The mccain campaign and the RNC openly courted internet users to post their spin/ bullet points everywhere and often while getting points for doing so which could be exchanged for merchandise
What makes one think they stopped
Posted by: jimmyboyo | Aug 19, 2009 11:12:17 AM
I agree with Zach. There's no reason to expect anything helpful whatsoever from the Repubs; they don't want any type of reform and will block all efforts to do so because they want to win back some midterm elections. This is probably the only time for a long while the Dems have a chance of actually getting something done, and it's been shown that "compromising" with the Repubs makes the Dems look weak and achieves watered-down, useless bills.
How often did Repubs give a crap what Dems wanted under Bush? Even when they had much smaller majorities? Politics is bloodsport, and voters gave Dems free reign. They should use it.
Posted by: Paul R | Aug 19, 2009 11:29:46 AM
Blue dogs will get in line if they realize that there will be no DNC funding of their next election and that the DNC will run candidates to oppose them. Pull an LBJ and start twisting arms!
Posted by: Mike K | Aug 19, 2009 11:30:37 AM
Ram it through by reconciliation if you have to, Mr President.
Your legacy will thank you for it later.
Posted by: Wes | Aug 19, 2009 11:31:01 AM
Well its about freaken time. Obama and the Democrats were elected to change things- not go hat in hand to the god damn Republicans for support. Just do it.
Posted by: charley | Aug 19, 2009 11:56:37 AM
HEALTH CARE REFORM NOW!
The republicans are screaming "it is not a right to have health care" ... how DARE they believe some people should have to right to be healthy before others. This is truly disgusting. They want to reserve health for the wealthy. I believe everyone born in this country should have the right to be healthy.
Posted by: KFLO | Aug 19, 2009 12:13:17 PM
Once again, as a former Hillary Gurl I watched as Obama played us like fiddles. We got our asses tapped again and again. I realized a long time ago, the man is a master class political chess player. He knew what he was doing all along. I bet the Blue Dogs are being told at this very moment to get in line or else.
I also feel he is doing the same thing on LGBT rights. He better be.
Posted by: Derek Washington | Aug 19, 2009 12:29:33 PM
Although I am in favor of the so-called "nuclear option" on this one, last chance Americans will get to reform our corporate-bloated, insurance-run, abominable health-care system, I can guarantee you this: if it were to happen, I honestly believe that the right-dominated media, particularly talk radio, would incite their unthinking minions to hit the streets with their guns cocked and loaded. There would be open and armed rebellion because the idiots of the right would be able to say: "See! He's a socialist dictator and he's stealing our Constitution! We gotta stop him!" Anybody who can't see this hasn't been REALLY paying attention the last two weeks.
Posted by: mike | Aug 19, 2009 1:22:11 PM
The Blue Dogs will not allow this. The recent polls show the majority of Americans still say they are "Conservative". Given that; the definition of conservative is obviously varied. I hope any government option is stopped as it will be impossible to get rid of after its passed.
The primary issue with a "Public Option" is the COST. Those of us that live in Florida have seen what the "Public Option" has done to private insurance regarding property. When Florida attempted to force folks into the private option the cost went up by 2.5x. My insurance went from $1.9k to $5.8k. Chriss stepped in and allowed us to go back to the "Public Option". Is this a good solution; probably not. As much as I like Citizens; as I am a user; the reality is the program does not generate enough money to cover another Andrew. Ultimately, the taxpayers across the U.S. will pay for any un-covered amounts. I don't know what the answer is; as the SCUM bag private folks made record profits during the largest hurricane season in recorded history but ultimately the "Public Option" has driven them out of the state. This is especially true for those of us within a mile of the coast. Anyhow, this is a small example of what a "Public Option" will do to the majority of health insurance companies. If that is our goal then we must accept the very real likelihood that taxes will increase a lot.
In Germany, they use a combined system of Public/Private, 75/25% respectively, it is paid for via a 15% tax. Assuming our tax increase would be similiar; Americans need to be willing to accept a marginal tax rate of 56%(29 income +12 SS +15 Health) on a person making $100k. Personally I believe that level of tax is worthy of an armed revolution. That doesn't even consider 6% sales(FL) + 2% property and all the other sundry taxes. You could end up pulling home $40k at the end of the day. Keep in mind that if there is a private option I can guarantee that you will be able to buy a much better plan for a lot less than 15k a year for a family of 4 not to mention those of us that are a family of one. I am all for a Public option as long as the tax is optional.
Posted by: Jason | Aug 19, 2009 2:14:20 PM
The Blue Dogs, if pushed hard enough, will have no choice. The party can do far more political damage to them than the Republicans or the electorate can.
Let's be clear as to what happened: the Administration adopted a hands-off approach in order to strengthen Congressional leadership and to separate Obama's personal popularity from contentious health reform. Neither of those goals were successful. Democratic leadership is as it has always been: weak and indecisive. Conservative democrats seemingly hijacked health reform, and the Republicans eagerly fanned hysterical discontent. Reeling from these blows, the White House implied it was willing to accept a compromise that wasn't actually a compromise. Two things then happened. The progressive base rallied around the public option and muted some of hysteria, and Republicans confirmed what most already knew: they had no interest in health reform. Zero. Nothing. They would oppose any and all reform legislation. Now this obstructionism won't really damage their standing with the American public, since battle lines are already drawn. But it made the narrative in the media and in Congress much clearer, and it's disrupted the grip that conservative media outlets had on formenting the discontent.
I give points to the Obama administration for deftly manipulating things these past few days. But things are the way they are because they didn't grasp Republican intransigence, or the media's constant hardon for a good fight.
The lesson to take from this is to treat the Executive as a pendulum when crafting policy. Sometimes it should swing away from the debate, sometimes it should swing directly into it.
Posted by: Zach | Aug 19, 2009 2:53:40 PM
All the poling indicates that Democrats will lose control of Congress if they pass a public option plan, particularly if there are any tax increases associated with it. They will lose moderates and seniors in the election in all districts where those two groups hold the balance of power--about 50-60 seats.
Posted by: anon | Aug 19, 2009 5:52:29 PM
anon
the opposite in fact
all polling shows the majority support choice for public option from 59-73%
the single NBC poll has already been dismissed by even repub LUNTZ because they dropped the word "choice" as well as one of those involved managing the poll has been a paid lobyist of Health Insurance companies
NBC even walked it back today over at MSNBC this afternoon
the majority are against health reform without public option choice at 56%
Try again
The only tax will be repeal of the bush tax cuts on the top earners who did quite well under the clinton era tax numbers
Wake up
Posted by: jimmyboyo | Aug 19, 2009 7:48:43 PM
I certainly hope the White House will refine their strategy. Because if Obama's offer to drop the public option is genuine, then the prospects aren't any better than they were before. In fact, I think he'd have an even harder time without a public option.
NO PUBLIC OPTION:
Sen. Bernie Sanders (Socialist) and around 3-4 Democratic Senators have said they will not vote for a bill with no public option. Republicans remain mostly unmoved. Maybe 3-4 GOP votes are possible if the White House goes with co-op. The problem is that only offsets the Democratic defections. It doesn't do anything to Sanders. And with Kennedy and Byrd gone, there's no way they're going to get to 60 votes. Even if they use reconciliation, having no public option is kryptonite in the House.
I presume all 178 House Republicans will vote against health care reform regardless of what's actually in the bill because they're hardcore obstructionists who roll like that. So, if those 60-65 declared liberal "rebels" go through with their written threat to sink the whole project, and there's every reason to believe they will, that's 238-243 votes against it right there. More than enough to kill it.
Posted by: John | Aug 19, 2009 8:29:49 PM