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11/17/2009
Five New Initiatives Filed to Repeal Prop 8?
Posted 11:22 AM EST by Andy Towle in California, Gay Marriage, News, Proposition 8 | Permalink
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I wish we would work harder to repeal DOMA and work to get full Civil Unions with all the federal benefits of marriage. This fight for the term marriage is going to be neverending. We could end it all by just taking Civil Unions. Wake Up people, it doesnt have to be called a marriage to be a marriage. I am gay, I am against gay marriage and for Civil Unions!!!!!
Posted by: David | Nov 17, 2009 11:57:49 AM
It's sad that we have to spend another $40 million dollars for another battle for the public to vote for our rights. This is getting very old. Why can't we use this money to repeal DOMA or push for civil marriage or civil unions recognition at the federal level? Say prop 8 is repealed in 2010. LGBT Americans still cannot sponsor their foreign spouses or partners to live America. We still can't file joint taxes or get health insurance for our partner. Sigh.
Posted by: Wit | Nov 17, 2009 12:14:20 PM
Well David,
I'm not for the term civil union because it's not so I guess we cancel each other out.
I'm not going to bother justifying your idiocy with a step by step rebuttal as to why they are not the same. You seem intelligent enough to figure out what the differences are and why it should not be acceptable. But then, you probably hang out at the parks and baths when your beloved isn't around anyway. That is if nayone would be foolish enough to embrace a relationship with you.
Posted by: Marc C | Nov 17, 2009 12:21:31 PM
Well Marc, just because I am not for gay marriage does not mean i troll the parks and baths. Actually, I am 31. I am a RN at a very well know hospital. My partner is 45 he works as a police officer. We have been together 9 yrs. And we support full Civil Unions! And if you followed my previous post, you will see that I said I support full civil unions with ALL the same benefits making them the SAME.. Are you following me? Ok, so the main reason we don't have marriage is because marriage has always been a man and woman, as it should be. If we quit trying to force marriage on people and go for Civil Unions and repeal DOMA. We will win. Marriage has a divorce rate of 50%, a joke! I don't want any part of that. I want Civil Unions!
Posted by: David | Nov 17, 2009 12:34:26 PM
If we had federally recognized civil unions it would solve all the problems we have in places like NJ, where companies whose benefits fall under federal rules refuse to recognize civil unions.
Posted by: qjersey | Nov 17, 2009 12:38:36 PM
Marc, there's no need to degrade someone just because they don't agree with you. You know nothing of David, do you?
I'm gay, have been in a committed relationship for over 27 years, and live in California. My partner and I didn't get married when we had the chance in California because we have committed not to take that legal step until all people can marry throughout the United States.
I really don't care what you call the legal joining of two people: marriage, civil unions, a clam bake. But a lot of people do. My bottom line: give my partner and me the legal rights of any straight married couple in the United States! Who cares if it is called marriage, civil unions, domestic partnerships, whatever!
Posted by: Paul | Nov 17, 2009 12:42:50 PM
Why not be for BOTH marriage equality AND civil unions?
Marriage is a civil status conferred and regulated by the states and RECOGNIZED by the federal government.
It's very unlikely that there could exist a federal law which could provide all the rights, responsibilities and benefits of marriage by calling that new legal structure a "civil union" but you could get VERY VERY close to encompassing almost all of those rights.
Posted by: Mad Professah | Nov 17, 2009 12:44:02 PM
The press isn't looking hard enough at the ballot language. All 5 versions were filed by the same proponents in order to have more time to choose which version was best, and the proponents have chosen to move forward on only ONE version. The other versions will NOT have signatures collected on them. You should expect the other versions to be withdrawn, but there is lag time between the California Secretary of State's office issuing of Title and Summary (the official go ahead for signatures) and acknowledging the wihdrawal of other language.
To see the "official" ballot language that signatures are being collected for, visit: http://signforequality.com
Posted by: Jeffrey Taylor | Nov 17, 2009 1:44:28 PM
'DAVID' is *clearly* a troll from some right wing conservative site, sent here to convince us that we should accept the crumbs of a civil union. After all, what gay person says "...marriage has always been a man and woman, as it should be. "?
Posted by: donotfeedthetrolls | Nov 17, 2009 1:59:08 PM
DONOTFEEDTHETROLLS .. David is a freethinker, that can think for himself, and doesn't conform with what others would choose. Below is my facebook, I am just an average gay american...
I wish people could comment without having to insult. We complain with they hit below the belt, yet we are so quick to do the same.
http://www.facebook.com/DnL7864?ref=profile
Posted by: David | Nov 17, 2009 2:05:47 PM
Wow. Five measures, and none of them just repeal Prop 8.
We've got mesaures that declare non-discrimination on the basis of ancestry, and ones that don't.
We've got measures that exempt a certain list of religious folks, and ones that are more general.
We've got measures that outlaw polygamy, and ones that don't.
But all of them exempt anyone (even acting in a civil capacity) from performing a marriage that goes against their "beliefs".
This is a smoke screen. Don't fall for it. Demand genuine Prop 8 repeal.
Posted by: Randy | Nov 17, 2009 3:20:30 PM
I'll accept civil unions when that's all anyone can get, including straight folks.
Posted by: Matt | Nov 17, 2009 3:39:12 PM
Jeff, thank you for sorting through what this story means. My first impression was that there would be 5 different petitions going around, which would make it less likely for any single one of them to reach 1,000,000 signatures. I'm glad that's not the case!
Posted by: Jeff Mishler | Nov 17, 2009 3:40:20 PM
Kevin and I have been together for 16 years. We were married in California on June 17, 2008. So having lived for 14.5 years as "partners," and now for 1.5 as "married," I believe I'm in a position to know whether or not the word "marriage" is important. In short, it is. Actually, far more than I'd anticipated.
Cutting to the chase, while there is very little societal understanding of the ramifications of "Domestic Partner," "Civil Union," or any of the other terms in use. Even a second grader (as well as their parents) understands what it is to be married. Otherwise put, the same deep-seated level of understanding of what it is to be married cannot be conveyed by any term other than the term “married.”
Being married has not only altered our relationship for the good, it’s also altered the way that we’re treated by both the gay and straight people with whom we interact. Neither of which were anticipated when got married. But a year and a half later --- no question, it’s there.
This is huge. I've lived it myself. This is huge.
It is also something that I very much want to have available for others who wish to avail themselves of it.
Posted by: Paul Waters | Nov 17, 2009 3:44:46 PM
I can't believe we are still fighting for marriage equality here in our country. The good thing is that people under 40 are overwhelmingly for gay marriage. This will happen.
The Netherlands, Belgium, Canada, Spain, Norway, and Sweden are countries where we can get married. ARGENTINA is soon to be next.
Can't wait for the US to "get with the times"
Posted by: FunMe | Nov 17, 2009 3:58:01 PM
Did South Africa fall off the face of the planet?
I'm pretty sure they had same-sex marriage before Norway and Sweden.
Posted by: John | Nov 17, 2009 5:58:49 PM
I will second Paul's comments. I too married on 6/17/08, after Doug and I had been together for 25.5 years. Because California has one of the strongest domestic partnership laws, and because we had a Vermont civil union, our legal rights and responsibilities did not really change on that date--and frankly, our personal commitments to each other were just as strong long before DPs and CU's appeared. And yet I agree that the shift to marriage is fundamental.
It is not at all unusual now to hear gay people in California refer to their spouses or use the term married. But whereas previously there was an inherent political challenge in calling someone your husband, now it is simply a statement of fact. No one can legitimately or legally claim "but you aren't really" or tell you not to use the term. And every time we all do, we remind people that gay marriage exists, that Prop 8 didn't and won't make it go away, AND that we still have a tremendous amount of work to do. It's a continuous process of education to (politely) correct your boss or your doctor or your sister-in-law when they talk to you about "your partner," but that's part of the groundwork that needs to happen.
For the record, I'm strongly in favor of BOTH civil unions/domestic partnerships and marriage. What matters most is the rights--the important thing is that couples have the ability to protect each other. Getting civil unions in places where marriage is not currently possible is vital. But marriage DOES represent a significant, if less tangible, addition.
My advice to couples who are at (or who reach) that point in their relationship where they are considering or want to get married or civil unioned: don't wait. Even if it's not yet acknowledged by your home state, the legal recognition and protection is important and the act itself empowering. Because of our recent political disappointments and frustrations, and because of all the work left to do, one tremendous shift has often been overlooked: Today, every gay couple legally capable of marrying in U.S. has 4 (and soon 5) places in this country where they can do that. Two years ago, that was true only for MA residents. Don't underestimate the long-term power of this enormous shift.
Posted by: Gianpiero Doebler | Nov 18, 2009 12:31:24 PM