1. Disgusted American says

    Lawrence O is a good reporter, and a FACT checker…..tho I could care less about what Catholics think, or any religious voodoo worshipper. I love the line “allowing”….America LIVE UP TOO what you brag about 24/7, 365 days a yr…. Liberty & Justice for All

  2. acorlando says

    While a majority of Catholics personally support Marriage Equality, the money that they put in the collection plate goes to oppress gay people.

  3. Patric says

    Do you ever write a comment where you don’t obsess about Democrats, LincolnLounger? Now go back to writing your next post attacking teachers or unions or the President or defending George Bush.

    Excellent point, Wes. Mr. O’Donnell didn’t even mention Beck until 4:30 into this segment but we can’t expect LincolnLounger to have actually watched the video when he had an opportunity to mindlessly attack a progressive right before his very eyes.

  4. Andrew says

    Just curious where those Catholics are when gays get denied the right to march in a St. Patty’s Day Parade, or get fired from their job at a Catholic school, or any number of stories that we’ve heard from Catholics being against gays. Where are these Catholics that Lawrence speaks of? Why are they not expressing their disdain for such actions publicly and demanding change?

  5. Patrick says

    Brilliantly put, as always, Mr. O’Donnell. By your estimations (even though I myself have a hard time believing statistics, mostly because they can be twisted to suit whatever need) one of the oldest, and in my opinion most antiquated, religions in the world seems to be having an progressive awakening. I love it!

    On the Glenn Beck note… Beck is a figurehead for the conservative tea bagging movement. He is a nameplate on the door into the office of bigotry and ignorance, and one of the most watched men on television, so it stands to reason that O’Donnell would use him as an example when pointing out the idiocy and hypocrisy of his movement.

  6. Danny says

    Many, many Roman catholics have voted with their feet and simply stopped going to church. Or, as in the case of (straight) friends of mine, have changed parishes because of the hostility in their own parish to gay people. The Roman leadership, meanwhile, are making fools of themselves by continuing to promote hatred of loved gay family members and neighbors. For people who claim to be so darned pro-family..ah, what’s the use. Anyway, this is a big bad piece of karma that’s coming back to bite them in the *ss so fast they’re literally losing their shirts because of it. They like using denial of communion as a weapon against “toeing the hate line.” Jesus would be aghast. A coworker has told me that even people who wear a rainbow pin to church have been denied communion. Now THAT’S hatred.

  7. anon says

    Liberal Catholics are far less likely to make donations to the church.

    If you are religious you would of course say that your own religion is superior. It would be odd if you didn’t.

  8. FizziekruntNT says

    Thank you, Anon. I proudly wore that badge of “odd” for many years, until I just got completely bored with the whole un-evolved notion of religion altogether. Thank you indeed.

  9. Patric says

    Danny, I think you make some great points in answering the questions raised by Andrew. The St. Patrick’s Day Parade in New York is run by an order of bigoted, old men and their exclusion of gay people has been condemned by many, including notably many from Ireland. More significantly, I suspect that this poll includes among those surveyed many who continue to identify as “Catholics” because they were raised as such but who have drifted and, as such, have even less say on actions taken by the Church than those who continue to attend Mass (and even the latter group has little say, given the hierarchical nature of the Church). As Danny aptly noted in response to Andrew’s question as to where pro-equality Catholics are when the Church digs in its heels on its anti-gay stances, many have done all they could do by voting with their feet. The ones who stay behind and who often tend to be the most vocal leaders of Catholic organizations are vile Republican anti-gay bigots like Catholic League President Bill Donohue.

    I should note also that the Church is a business and it’s most concerned about (i) the people who donate funds, who tend to be more conservative and anti-gay than Catholics as a whole, and (ii) the attitudes of people in the regions where Catholicism is growing, such as Africa and Asia, rather than the attitudes of people in regions where Catholicism’s footprint is diminishing, like Canada or France. None of those factors pushes the Church in the direction of greater openness and acceptance.

  10. Danny says

    good god, lincolnlounger. Beck’s role in this piece is an aside about the willingness of pundits and “political figures” like Palin to skr*w around with the truth.

    So who do you hate more, dude? O’Donnell? Liberals? People who don’t listen to their bishops? People who don’t agree with you? Gay people? Yourself?

  11. Danny says

    @ Patric: Thanks man, I’ve lived in NYC for 30 years and stopped going to the parade the year I learned that ILGO was denied a permit to march. As I understand it, gay groups have marched in St Patric’s Day parades in Ireland for some years now.

    But the Jansenist Irish who came to this country and became responsible for the tone of American Roman Catholicism in the 20th Century (some of whom are my own forbears and major donors when St Patrick’s moved uptown from Mott Street) were not a well-educated, broad-minded bunch. Of course they had their reasons: the Irish were as ill-treated as any group ever to come to New York with the possible exception of Black people.

    Many, many Roman catholics in the US have moved on from the confinement of that model of clerically-controlled religion and piety which, among other things made it difficult for many older Irish to accept the reality of clerical pedophilia.

    I, meanwhile, became an Anglican 37 years ago and have never looked back. My parents’ Roman clergy completely failed to teach my mom and dad to reject their gay children. And I was never once reproached for becoming an Episcopalian. But they’re unusual people who long ago saw through the Irish Roman catholic BS and separate it from their desire to be faithful at the Lord’s Table. That faithfulness I’ve been able to take with me on my pilgrimage.

    Thanks for your taking notice of my posting, Patric.

  12. John says

    Have any of you checked the definition of “Christian”? Have you compared the tenets of the various denominations in America today? If you reject the Bible as God’s Word, any further discussion is moot. Christianity and the Bible are inextricably locked together. It is either all or none. Mr. O’Donnell cannot defend Catholicism as a Christian religion when, at the corporate level, the leadership denies important guidelines found within the scriptures and have substituted them with their own. He can, however, spout his venom against other hosts (GB) and rant that he is “the only one who knows the truth” because he has the training and the facts. He can tell you that a certain percent of Catholics disagree with the teachings of the Vatican on homosexuality, same-sex acts/marriage, and apparently any other acts of the flesh considered an abomination before the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He will tell those with itching ears what they want to hear. He is desperate to have Glenn Beck removed from the equation because Glenn has already won the battle. Glenn carries the real truth and Larry knows it.

    Larry has not gotten to Glenn. Larry can’t find a ladder tall enough to bring him up to Glenn’s level. What next? Try sawing off the legs, Larry?

  13. John says

    Hey dude. One more thing. I just noticed all the advertizers on your webpage. Makes me wonder but would explain a lot. By the way, what are the percentages of aids transmitted from one same-sex partner to another? Google that for us. Don’t forget to count yourself if you fall into that category. Gotta have the facts you know.

  14. Danny says

    John, you are one sick guy–AND–you have a viewpoint on the bible held by NO biblical scholars. As to the “important guidelines” you refer to in the bible, I would be gratified if you would discuss even a few of the ones cited here:

    I know these links don’t work in this blog, but enter it in your browser manually and get back to us. I’d love to know what you think.

  15. Danny says

    @ JOHN: “it is either all or none.”

    Says who? You?

    The nastiness of your tone suggests to me that you’ve rejected the commandments Jesus suggested were the greatest. Especially the second one: “you shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

    You might try a purgative and a round at Project Exodus.

  16. Patric says

    Danny, thanks for sharing your own personal story and for your interesting description of the history of Irish Catholics in this country. I actually don’t think your parents, who sound great, are so unusual, though.

    As you might have guessed given my first name, I am half-Irish and was raised Catholic by parents who have ten children, are now in their 80s and go to Mass six days a week. They are wonderfully loving and accepting of me and of my son, though, and just think that the Church is wrong about gay people. Of course, because they were raised in the “clerically-controlled” tradition which you described and because they are of a generation where most people feel otherwise, they don’t make waves about that. There are a whole lot of Catholic parents of gay kids who are like your parents and mine, though, I believe.

  17. says

    While he happens to be right here, he speaks in such a smarmy way as to piss off anyone outside of the ‘choir’ he’s speaking to. He needs to stop speaking to religious people as if they’re dumb. And I say this as an agnostic who fled the Catholic church and harbors a lot of resentment for a lot of the mainstream religions out there for the way they treat gay people like myself. Can’t we talk about this in a way that doesn’t confirm the prejudices of the religious communities we’re trying to win over? You know, like instead of telling them that their book is pure mythology, instead saying that they should respect the seperation of church and state and stop trying to push their dogmatic beliefs on others legislatively?

    The thing about the Catholic church in this country is most Catholics are more Catholic by culture than they are in practice — the kind of people who may show up to midnight mass on Christmas eve and on Easter Sunday. They’re not the ones who have a problem with us, but they’re also not the ones who have a huge say in what goes on in the church. Yet, they do maintain relationships and friendships with those who do and can be an asset in winning over the holdouts and getting that church to *at least* stop making its mission one of persecution against women and gays, if not getting the church to reverse itself on those positions. But it’s not going to happen if the people talking to them about these issues are smarmy as&%#&$!

    Lawrence O’Donnell — put down the latte and take a lesson from Ed Shultz on how to talk about these kinds of things to the rank and file American people. How you say something is absolutely as important as what you say.

  18. Jeff says

    Great commentary, but who ever said Catholics were as conservative as Evangelicals and Mormons?? It’s ridiculous that people have been saying that! Catholicism doesn’t impose on people’s lives and minds the same way that the more conservative christian sects do. I used to have a lot of Mormon friends in High School and they pretty much spent the entire Sunday every week in church. Catholics go to mass for 1 hour a week if they’re really devout, and that’s it!

    Look at some of the most Catholic countries in the world… Mexico and Portugal both have full equal rights for gays including marriage. Because the Catholic church, despite its official positions on these issues, at least allows its members to be free thinkers.

  19. Rin says

    I’m a Catholic who set up an appointment with my bishop to discuss gay marriage and why I as a lay person and part of the body of Christ had a right to voice my opinion. I argued for a good long while with him and got him to agree on many points.

    Our collection plate money goes to our Church loan, the school, Haiti, and various community service works. If you know anything about how the Church runs…the Vatican does not see much (if any) funds from individual churches, so my church is not supporting homophobia. We have gay couples at my church.

    I don’t believe in throwing the baby out with the bathwater. It is my opinion that the message and teachings of Jesus have provided me with an excellent blueprint for how to live my life. I’m not a Paul fan, not so hip on the OT, and luckily the Catholic Church (unlike others) preaches mostly from the I hear a lot of mind your own business, don’t judge others, and take care of the poor.

    If I leave the Church instead of trying to change it I’m giving in to, well, the forces of evil. I just don’t think that does Jesus any kind of service at all.

    Hate is evil.

    Jesus wasn’t about hate.

    I’m going to try to change the world with my love, one person at a time.

  20. 1♥ says

    Re: “the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob”.

    Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and Noah to name just a few Biblical personas are completely fictional characters.

    Since Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are fictional then their god is fictional. Your bible is a lie as is your god.
    As obvious from your post, all you really care about is your pro-slavery homophobic Bible masquerading your hate and bigotry.

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