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Teen Christians Vs. Dan Savage At Student Journalism Conference: VIDEO

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A great brouhaha is stirring in the nation's conservative publications over comments Dan Savage made two weeks ago while addressing the JEA/NSPA National High School Journalism Convention. The convention was entitled "Journalism On The Edge," which you'd think would prep participants for a certain amount of edginess in the presentations. Alas, the audience was not prepared for edginess. Savage's subject was to be bullying, and he got right to the point:

The Bible. We'll just talk about the Bible for a second. People often point out that they can't help it -- they can't help with the anti-gay bullying, because it says right there in Leviticus, it says right there in Timothy, it says right there in Romans, that being gay is wrong.

We can learn to ignore the bulls**t in the Bible about gay people. The same way, the same way we have learned to ignore the bulls**t in the Bible about shellfish, about slavery, about dinner, about farming, about menstruation, about virginity, about masturbation. We ignore bulls**t in the Bible about all sorts of things. The Bible is a radically pro-slavery document. Slave owners waved Bibles over their heads during the Civil War and justified it. The shortest book in the New Testament is a letter from Paul to a Christian slave owner about owning his Christian slave. And Paul doesn't say "Christians don't own people." Paul talks about how Christians own people. 

We ignore what the Bible says about slavery, because the Bible got slavery wrong. Tim -- uh, Sam Harris, in A Letter To A Christian Nation, points out that the Bible got the easiest moral question that humanity has ever faced wrong. Slavery. What're the odds that the Bible got something as complicated as human sexuality wrong? One hundred percent. 

The Bible says that if your daughter's not a virgin on her wedding night -- if a woman isn't a virgin on her wedding night, she shall be dragged to her father's doorstep and stoned to death. Callista Gingrich lives. And there is no effort to amend state constitutions to make it legal to stone women to death on their wedding night if they're not virgins. At least not yet. We don't know where the GOP is going these days.

People are dying because people can't clear this one last hurdle. They can't get past this one last thing in the Bible about homosexuality. 

Um, one other thing I wanna talk about is -- [chuckles] -- so, you can tell the Bible guys in the hall that they can come back now, because I'm done beating up the Bible. It's funny, as someone who's on the receiving end of beatings that are justified by the Bible, how pansy-assed some people react when you push back. 

I apologize if I hurt anyone's feelings. But. I have a right to defend myself. And to point out the hypocrisy of people who justify anti-gay bigotry by pointing to the Bible, and insisting we must live by the code of Leviticus on this one issue and no other. 

As Savage noted, Christian students in the thousands-strong audience fled from his address, first in a trickle, and then in a great flood. The exodus began right around the time Savage started talking about slavery. Very soon, the offended students were talking to the press. From the rightist rag Citizen Link:

A 17-year-old from California who was attending with half a dozen other students from her high school yearbook staff, was one of several students to walk out in the middle of Savage’s speech.

“The first thing he told the audience was, ‘I hope you’re all using birth control!’ ” she recalled. Then “he said there are people using the Bible as an excuse for gay bullying, because it says in Leviticus and Romans that being gay is wrong. Right after that, he said we can ignore all the ‘B.S.’ in the Bible.

“I was thinking, ‘This is not going a good direction at all,’ Then he started going off about the Bible. He said somehow the Bible was pro-slavery. I’m really shy. I’m not really someone to, like, stir up anything. But all of a sudden I just blurted out, ‘That’s bull!’ ”

As she and several other students walked out of the auditorium, Savage noticed them leaving and called them “pansies.”

The story has now been picked up by FOX News Radio, under the headline "Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens." Today, that article was one of the top links at Drudge Report, which suggests the story will get bigger very soon.

It's too bad the Christian kids left the hall. They're supposed to be journalists, and we in the journalism biz must often dirty our ears with others' distasteful utterances. While Savage might have profitably avoided the use of profanities (which, when used to describe allegedly sacred documents, tend to make believers less than receptive to whatever might come next), what he said was materially true, and good journalism students of any creed ought to know it. And inquisitive Christians also ought to know the standard argument against Dan's point: That Jesus's "new covenant" rendered the Old Testament's "ceremonial law" meaningless (making it okay for humans to eat shellfish and pork) but left in place the Old Testament's "moral laws," which include prohibitions against homosexuality. And smart people in general should know the counter-argument to that counter-argument, which is: Really? Stoning women to death isn't a moral issue?

That's where believers and doubters tend to part ways, which is a shame. Apparently these journalism students are too delicate to get even that far.

Watch the allegedly objectionable bits of Savage's address AFTER THE JUMP ...

Make sure not to miss a Towleroad headline by following @TLRD on Twitter.

 

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Comments

  1. well, Mary, it sounds like you've come a long way. Keep it up.

    meanwhile, I don't see ANYTHING wrong with his calling those kids pansies. In fact, I believe it was a well-chosen rhetorical device.

    Posted by: DannyEastVillage | Apr 28, 2012 5:09:12 PM


  2. Social conservatives who choose to interpret the bible in a social conservative way need to realize that it is a choice, much like vegan-ism that one makes for oneself.
    There needs to be mutual respect. NO one is telling them to be gay, or perform gay weddings.
    They don't reciprocate. They want to be in charge of all the private details of our lives. Who we can marry, if we can have families, what rights we have in regard to work, housing, health care, if we can be by our partners side in the hospital. Some even blatantly abuse religion to justify it.
    That's wrong.

    I agree with many commentators here. The message was to inspire kids to think critically, maybe challenge their beliefs. But the delivery, that was completely wrong. He basically went against every rule of pubic speaking.
    Bad messenger = message not received.

    Posted by: Mk_Ultra_Again | Apr 28, 2012 5:11:46 PM


  3. Savage is exactly right. The "walk out" by so-called Christians was pre-planned in any case. I hope this does go viral. I think it will blow up in the right-wing's face.

    Posted by: Jay | Apr 28, 2012 5:12:33 PM


  4. Absolutely brilliant!

    Posted by: Oliver | Apr 28, 2012 5:16:32 PM


  5. Yeah the planned walk out was pathetic and included many closet cases who wanted to bolster their 'straight' credentials !

    What a pathetic closed minded bunch of young people. But I still believe the young generation are all together much better and more tolerant than the older generations.

    Posted by: JackFkTwist | Apr 28, 2012 5:17:29 PM


  6. @ Mary,

    I have followed your history of comments here, and I do believe that you, like many Americans, are making an honest effort to learn how Americans, wherever they fall on the Kinsey scale of sexuality, can peacefully coexist with each other. My suggestion to you is this. The U.S. Constitution gives Americans the freedom to believe any religious creed they choose, including a literal interpretation of the Christian Bible, but the Constitution does not give them freedom from the consequences of those beliefs.

    If a person believes the Bible literally (of course, focusing on the anti-gay sexual injunctions), they will be looked on with contempt by most of their fellow Americans. That is just part of the world we have to wake up to every morning, and no constitution or government can ever give anyone freedom from those consequences. Make sense?

    Posted by: Artie_in_Lauderdale | Apr 28, 2012 5:18:30 PM


  7. Thank you, Dan. It was the right thing to do, in my opinion. After all the christian "pansies" get over their hurt feelings, I think many of them will see the ridiculousness of their belief system, even if they don't readily admit it. I for one applaud you, and I think it was about time.

    Posted by: David T | Apr 28, 2012 5:22:43 PM


  8. @ Mary again,

    Many have often offered similar observations regarding the freedom of speech that fundamentalist Christians use to attack gay and bisexual people with. Those Christians have freedom of speech, but they don't have freedom from the consequences of that speech, ESPECIALLY when they are employed as educators.

    Posted by: Artie_in_Lauderdale | Apr 28, 2012 5:24:25 PM


  9. I have been a vocal critic of Savage on other issues, but on this one I support him 110 percent! These kids need a dose of reality thrown in their faces. Of course, it all went right over their heads, and will end up being another crazy liberal homo crucified in the press. The politicians will line up to distance themselves from the remark, and the so-called Christians will succeed in making it an attack on them - because that is what they do. But these same student journalists are the ones espousing the Bible-inspired rhetoric that is poisoning too many lives. *And yes, ignore the bogus trolls trawling their filth here.

    Posted by: happyday | Apr 28, 2012 5:24:25 PM


  10. Dan Savage was 100% spot on

    Posted by: say what | Apr 28, 2012 5:29:36 PM


  11. @Mk_Ultra_Again, "He basically went against every rule of pubic speaking."

    Are you some kind of authority on Public Speaking? Cite your credentials.

    Can you please list the Rules, I'd love to know them since I myself do quite a bit of public speaking. Additionally, where I come from, when you motivate an audience in some way then you are giving a great talk. When the audience sits there and doesn't respond, doesn't applaud, nods off, then you are a lousy speaker. In this case Savage motivated his audience, some disagreed to such an extent that they walked out, many others (more than that which walked out) applauded. And at the end of the day he got a hell of a lot of press.

    Posted by: Oliver | Apr 28, 2012 5:29:54 PM


  12. Gaylib--KUDOS! YOU NAILED IT!

    YOU TOO MR JACKFKTWIST!

    Posted by: DannyEastVillage | Apr 28, 2012 5:31:28 PM


  13. Nothing Mr. Savage was wrong or inappropriate and if the thin skinned student journalists can't hack sitting there and listening, maybe they shouldn't be journalists. Then again, the sheep who all got up an left are probably the same type of people who sat through that travesty of a "motivational" assembly at Dunkerton High School, my alma mater.

    http://phoenixjustice.blogspot.com/2012/03/dunkerton-high-school-ashamed-to-be.html

    Posted by: Phoenix Justice | Apr 28, 2012 5:32:55 PM


  14. Dan Savage should quit being so butt-hurt over what happened to him in high school and stop being such a little girl about everything. He has been such a prick since Queer Eye got cancelled

    Posted by: BushPalin2012 | Apr 28, 2012 5:34:59 PM


  15. @ BushPalin2012,

    Your username is seriously BushPalin2012? What planet are you on? Surely there are people that would like to see you back down here on earth with the rest of us.

    Posted by: Artie_in_Lauderdale | Apr 28, 2012 5:40:02 PM


  16. BTW to those who objected to Dan's use of the phrase, "pansy-assed," he didn't call those kids "pansy-assed;" he remarked on how "pansy-assed" their reaction is "when we push back."

    Considering the amount of violence perpetrated against gay people historically and right this very minute, calling a reaction to push-back against violence "pansy-assed" seems very, very understated.

    Perhaps you who don't like that term think we should just say, "please sir: would you mind, please, taking your boot off my face?"

    Posted by: DannyEastVillage | Apr 28, 2012 5:42:10 PM


  17. "They're supposed to be journalists, and we in the journalism biz must often dirty our ears with others' distasteful utterances."

    They were excellent journalists. Walking out provided a story for all of the conservative rags. Go look over at FOX News. An article about their top executive admitting to knowledge about the hacking of the phones of fallen soldiers and murder victims in the UK? ~6 hours, in an article linked at the bottom. The article about this? "Bold" ("top") story. It's been up for about a day and a half.

    They're excellent journalists.

    Posted by: Joe M. | Apr 28, 2012 5:42:45 PM


  18. Dan Savage is a gay saint! We need more Dan Savage's to slap back at the smug little air-headed Christians filled with the rhetoric of their air-headed preachers.

    God Bless Dan Savage!

    When you're slapped, don't turn the other cheek, slap back twice as hard. Put them in their place. "They" don't own "us," biblical approval of slavery notwithstanding.

    Posted by: Keepin' It Straight | Apr 28, 2012 5:42:53 PM



  19. According to the Mail.Uk and other sites it wasn't a "flood" of students it was roungly a dozen, two dozen max.

    Also if you watch the video many of those kids seem to be smiling and smirking as they leave and don;t look outwardly upset or angry.

    http://www.back2stonewall.com/2012/04/video-christian-jounalism-students-walk-dan-savage-speech-anti-gay-bullying-bible.html

    Posted by: Will | Apr 28, 2012 5:43:21 PM


  20. And where were the right wing potstirrers when this happened?

    http://www.towleroad.com/2012/03/zealots-delivered-anti-gay-anti-woman-message-in-public-school-assembly/comments/page/1/#comments

    Oh, right. Since they agree with the anti-gay messaging, it's ok.

    Seriously, Drudge, et. al. GFY

    Posted by: Kevin | Apr 28, 2012 5:50:03 PM


  21. Yessireebob! That's my Dan Savage!

    Posted by: Leroy Laflamme | Apr 28, 2012 5:56:33 PM


  22. He messed up, plain and simple. He's a grown man cursing at kids and calling them names. Nothing that most of us haven't fantasized about doing. But we use restraint if not for decency's sake for the practical sake of prioritizing the effective communication of our message over the emotional desire to tell a bunch of pansy self-important highschool kids sucking on the teat of their parents religion to pull their heads out of their rear-ends and deal with the world and society like thinking adults.

    Beyond the PR and messaging consequences of Dan's immature outburst is the under-developed familiarity with how ancient texts are properly exegeted. His is no worse than the bible-bangers he is opposing, but its a bit ironic to point out one side's over-simplified treatment of the text by erring in the same fashion on the opposite side. That said, his assertion is absolutely spot-on that Christians who irresponsibly throw around Bible passages they are woefully ignorant concerning just to put other in their place should show some thick skin when someone gives them a taste of their own medicine. The feigned incredulity of these kids (and the inevitable religious right response that is surely coming) is laughable given that they feel they have carte blanche to alienate every one else in the name of their religious liberty.

    In the end, Dan's off-base assertions about the Bible simply highlight that it is not his job to correct people as to the Bible, as he is not someone who is concerned with the text beyond the fact that it is used to hurt him and the people he advocates (usually much more effectively) for.

    That job falls to those Christians and other Bible scholars who have done the academic work necessary to counter the claims of the religious right about what the Bible actually reads, the various ways it can be legitimately interpreted, and the critical thinking skills that should be engaged whenever one endeavors to apply its messages to life given the cultural, historical and language gaps involved.

    In other words, the job of disempowering the religious right's claims about the Bible does not fall to those who would concede the latter's point on what it does and does not say. Such people can do no more than Dan has done here; namely point out the hypocritical way in which the RR applies what the Bible appears to teach.

    But young people of faith who are sorting out which of their parents' teachings to hold onto, what to discard and what to adapt need to hear from those who can offer an alternative way to read and understand ancient sacred texts altogether. This will ultimately have a far better chance of promoting a healthy integration of faith values with acceptable social values. Simply telling them to grow up and realize that the Bible needs to be read with a grain of salt if at all will only alienate young people of faith, be they gay or straight. That does none of us any good at all.

    Read more: http://www.towleroad.com/2012/04/dan_savage_journalism_conference.html#ixzz1tNJsbpzb

    Posted by: Ty | Apr 28, 2012 5:58:57 PM


  23. @ Ty,

    Secular people have every right to point out the hate and hypocrisy in the Bible. I hope more secular people continue to do that in the future. Don't like it? Too bad.

    Posted by: Artie_in_Lauderdale | Apr 28, 2012 6:04:51 PM


  24. Ok, what are the numbers here? This was a "thousands strong" audience and how many offended, tearful young'uns walked out? Probably a very small percent. What's the big deal, that they were poor teenagers, and Savage used the term "bullsh*t" in reference to their bible? And these students want to be JOURNALISTS? How about focusing on the vast majority of students who not only stayed to listen, but enthusiastically CHEERED what Savage said, over and over? And yet the focus of this entire situation is the tempest in the teapot of the poor-me Christian Victims. How ironic that some here are tsk-ing Savage for calling the walkouts "pansies"--a word that was used as a slam against gay men for DECADES. In my opinion, it's high time these kids got a taste of the real world! I think it's quite telling that those who walked out chose to flee, rather than having the courage to stay and LISTEN...typical.

    Posted by: jim | Apr 28, 2012 6:08:31 PM


  25. I agree with those who have posted that we have no obligation to refrain from criticizing those institutions that continue to criticize us.

    Posted by: mike128 | Apr 28, 2012 6:11:27 PM


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