Comments

  1. says

    see? NOM wants you to think “blacks” are the problem, despite the fact that NOM is made up of, and is headed by, a collective of white Christians.

    as for biblical-created marriage, that would include a woman being forced to marry her rapist. or HIS rapist, if the man was raped by a woman. which we’re all pretty sure is how maggie gallagher got knocked up in the first place….

  2. gr8guyca says

    Ultimately, the Supreme Court is going to decide this. If we win there, all of these measures will be struck down. While it’s important to win these votes, the real game is happening in the courts.

  3. SCollingsworth says

    “No one can redefine marriage…” Unless of course it’s the state. Because in North Carolina THAT couple would not have been able to get married in the 18th century, nor much of the 19th century. And interracial couples weren’t allowed to get married through much of the 20th century.

  4. Andrew says

    Given that 71% of African-American children are born into single family households (i.e. out of wedlock), I can’t see how this ad would have much influence.

  5. NullNaught says

    As long as I can remember, the gay community has been largely liberal with a strong commitment to all civil rights. It distresses me greatly that the coalition of African American Pastors would go for this sort of thing. You would think they would have a better sense of the fact that more civil rights for anyone = more civil rights for everyone.

  6. Steve says

    The US not only used to forbid interracial marriage, it also forbade legal marriage between slaves. Slaves couldn’t legally marry because they were property, not persons. Slaves still had ceremonies, but someone’s spouse could simply be sold to someone else.

  7. gaylib says

    Latest PPP poll shows support for Amendment one falling from 61% to 51% among African Americans. NOM’s racist, race baiting strategy is backfiring badly.

  8. Dan E says

    The latest polls show that African Americans are 2 to 1 in favor of this amendment. While I think it’s harmful to scapegoat African Americans things like Prop 8, I think it’s equally harmful to pretend that homophobia isn’t more prevalent among African Americans, especially more prevalent among African Americans who vote a Democratic ticket than among Democrats in general.

    To sum up: racial scapegoating Very Bad. Pretending that homophobia isn’t a larger issue among African Americans than among a great many other groups (especially when you consider that African Americans vote overwhelmingly for Democrats): also very bad.

    It’s a delicate, difficult issue even to talk about, but sticking our collective heads in the sand is NOT the answer.

  9. Dan E says

    Gaylib: wow after your post I just saw the latest numbers. I eat my words! Those percents have really dropped. I’m only too happy to eat my words.

    I still think it’s unfortunate that half of a group who votes overwhelming Democratic is voting for an anti-gay ballot measure, but it’s nice to see such progress.

  10. says

    “blacks” aren’t the ones creating these ads, nor these ballot initiatives, nor these legislations.

    like i’ve said before, take note of who is starting the fire and fanning the flames. it’s NOT the black communities. it’s white “Christians”, who are intentionally making this about race.

    for all the “black democrats” talk…how about the legions of wimpy gay white Republicans, and their lame-ass “supportive” families? blaming “blacks” is simply an easy way to ignore the fact that their own white Christian republican families don’t give a f**k about them.

  11. Dan E says

    @Kiwi: not sure why you keep putting “blacks” in quotes in response to me, given that it’s not a word I used.

    FWIW, I am far, far more contemptuous of gay republicans than I am of African American homophobes. But I have a serious problem with any Democrat, of any race, who votes against gay rights. And I think it’s foolish not to ask the question: why are we doing so much worse with African American Democrats?

    It’s not “blame the blacks;” it’s “what’s going on here, and what can we do about it?”

  12. NullNaught says

    Actually, the list in the story includes a coalition of african american pastors. Some blacks are indeed creating these commercials.
    How is anything about gay republicans a response to talk about “black democrats?” I am serrious. I just don’t see the connection. Does anyone understand that?
    Littlekiwi: you may want to ignore this as I used to post as H8STR8S and you expressed a desire to ignore me permanently if I understood you correctly.

  13. says

    well, the reality is sociological (or socioeconomic) and not merely ethnic.

    the quotations are to make a point, and not just to you – NOM wants the gay communities to see them as “BLACKS” – a collective Borg of oppression. it’s a tired tactic. not people, but “blacks”.

    and yeah, i’m totally with you, brother, on the Gay Repubs VS A.A.-homophobes thing. big time, total agreement.

    but what can be done? it all starts with acknowledging the root.
    we have groups of white people who are intentionally trying to create a divide between gay and black. we also have a culture that worships White above everything else. white worship, straight worship, man worship = GOProud wetdreams.

    while “official” segregation has ended, the reality is that it simply became covert; substitute “class” and you’ll see what i mean. there’s a reason healthcare and education are for the wealthy. it’s the same reason gun-control is too lax, and there are such things as privatized prisons.
    the ruling class wants to keep the divide – and that means poor people who turn to religion for “comfort” (control), and desperation to make ends meet (crime). the ruling class has a vested interest in these things. i’m still sorta stunned that more people don’t see how the Occupy movements are about this.

  14. Chitown Kev says

    The real issue in North Carolina will be turnout.

    Remember, this is taking place on Republican primary day. Yes, there is the issue of the governor’s race but primarly those that will come out to vote will be conservative

  15. gaylib says

    “legions of wimpy gay white Republicans”

    legions? really? care to back that with facts? Doubt it since they dont’ exist. exit polling shows that over 70% of gay voters supported Obama and the Democrats in 2008, more than any other group besides black voters. I get that you don’t like anyone talking about race when it comes to these votes, but your not doing yourself any favors by making sh#t up either.

  16. NullNaught says

    Littlekiwi:
    Nice argument. You fail to address there is a black community cooperating with this division between gays and black. The division would not be possible but that they are behind it. Are their religious leaders part of the ruling class, then? I agree with a lot of your analysis. It is just that you always deflect from the fact that the black community has been going for it. I am glad to see numbers that indicate the strategy is backfireing now. It is great to see the community open their eyes to how they have been manipulated. But they couldn’t have been had they not been open to it in the first place. Isn’t the real root of the problem that their culture is homophobic? Otherwise the NOM strategy never would have worked.
    If we can’t get our fellow democrats on our side whole-heartedly, how can we win? That is the real problem. Solidarity.

  17. Chitown Kev says

    Just looked at the PPP poll.

    56% of whites in North Carolina say they will vote for the amendment.

    and you racist queens think black people is your problem…hey, if you want to stay deluded and in refusal (as opposed to denial)…who am I to stop you.

  18. Misty says

    Keep in mind that while there are plenty of homophobic black pasters out there, many black panthers helped fight in the stonewall riots along with black and brown transgender people and many other groups.

  19. greenluv1322 says

    Well I can see this ad backfiring big time. Why? Because with most white people being against anything black; they might mistakenly vote AGAINST, lol!!

  20. Derrick from Philly says

    NULLNAUGHT,

    What would you guess is the percentage of Black America that has its religious roots in Christian fundamentalism compared to the percentage of White America? And unfortunately, Old Testament sins appeal to Christian fundamentalists (especially if the sin being discussed isnt’ yours).

    Also, NULLNAUGHT, what would you guess is the percentage of White Gays who have “been going for it” when it comes to Conservative arguments about the causes of inner-city crime, intelligence levels of Black people, the fight against affirmative action? There’s prejudice on both sides.

    And what’s your take, NULLNAUGHT, on why a majority of Blacks vote against marriage equality in referenda but continue to support politicians who support equality for Gays? And many of these pro-civil rights for Gays politicians are Black.

    And one of these politicians named Obama will appoint judges to the federal bench to do what shouldn’t be left up to public votes.

    “Isn’t the real root of the problem that their culture is homophobic?”

    And yours is racist, and it took a while to overcome those cultural values. We’ll have to work on these issues.

  21. says

    i don’t mind people “talking about race” as long as they talk about it from a place where they, you know, know what they’re talking about.

    are you saying there are no gay white republicans? LOL!

    null – there are black people going along with this division and there are GAY people going along with the division.
    the reality is that both groups go along with it for the same reason: to win the favour of the ruling class.

    religious leaders are part of the game – there’s a reason organized religious groups talk about “the gay” more than they talk about “the need to give to the poor”. same reason why a “Christian Politician” ignores every single Christ-attributed commandment to give to those in need, and choose, instead, to take not-attributed-to-Christ pieces of scripture out of context and talk about ‘gay’ things. heaven forbid people actually open their bibles to see what they actually say about the hoarding of wealth.

    you see a black community, i see a Christian community. and i said earlier, the poorer the community, the more likely they are to put faith in a church.

    look at Mississippi – a state absolutely in the economic pits. and yet the most Republican State in the union. why? give ’em Jeebus and they’ll ignore the fact that the people they’re voting for are the reason they’re broke and unemployed.

  22. says

    to Derrick’s point, as long as the elected officials aren’t running on campaigns of anti-gay prejudice, then why the intense gripe?

    truly. the GOP is the party whose leaders are running the “i hate gays more than you do!” competition, and the GOP is a predominantly white-supported political party.

    who started the fire?

  23. JJ says

    @NULLNAUGHT, speaking of people who should “open their eyes to how they have been manipulated,” the campaign against gay rights is purely religious bigotry. It has nothing to do with race. Separating out black religious people for their own special attention is just a cynical statistics trick. It dupes those people who want to believe it because it confirms their racist world view.

    What’s really shockingly discouraging is that you still fell for this trick even though NOM _documented_ this as their strategy and those documents were widely reported and discussed for several days. You must really _really_ want a racist explanation that says that while religious people in general may act on their religious beliefs, _black_ religious people act on their skin color.

  24. NullNaught says

    Thank you so much. I appreciate this greatly. I felt really bad when I understood (wrongly) that I was stabbed in the back by other liberals after prop. 8. I have been so angry, I have been truly blind. Talk about opening my eyes and seeing how I have been manipulated.
    I am touched that, in spite of the level of ignorance I have been showing on this particular issue, you all have been responding like genltlemen.
    Thank you especially, Littlekiwi, because when you argue politely, you are very very good at what you do. As long as I have been out, I have been a liberal big on everyone’s civil rights. This is probably an angry reaction to my loathesome racist parents who had no shame. I have felt absolutely sick over what I misperceived to be a personal betrayal. I was sick over what had happened. I was sick with myself over how I felt. Sick is the right word. It unbalanced me. Thank you personally for letting me feel better about my fellow liberals again.
    I can’t learn if I don’t display my ignorance as politely as I can (point out where I’m rude and I will apologize – really)and learn from the reactions of those better informed than myself.
    Because I was very ready to change and you all have been talking to me respectfully, you have allowed me to.
    I still have racist attitudes. You can not grow up with parents like mine and not be kinda f*cked up for life. But with your help, I shall continue to learn.
    Thank you to Andy and the gang; this is life altering for me.
    I should have done this a long time ago.

  25. jack says

    There is no god created marriage in that vile book, the bible. Abraham and many of the leaders of the Israelites had many wives and concubines. A father often sold his daughter for a profit. A man got a woman by whatever means took her to his tent and f**ked her and they were married. The Catholic church tells us that jesus “raised marriage to the dignity of a sacrament”. All the gospel tells us is that jesus went to the marriage feast of Canna and when they ran out of wine his mother pestered him so he changed a lot of water into very good wine. Thats it!

  26. mary says

    Nullnaught, you’ve got my vote. First you give up a divisive internet handle (H8STR8TS), then you show a degree of humilty and gratitude that is rarely seen anywhere (including among church people), and then your biggest achievement of all. You actually get Little Kiwi to respond with “hugs and love and light!”

    This last achievement shows that Nullnaught is probably wasting his time on Towleroad. Anyone who could disolve Little Kiwi’s hostility should be negotiating peace between the Arabs and Israelis.

    Werk. (and one day I may even learn what this word means!)

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