GOProud Doesn't Like Dan Savage Speech
Yesterday, I posted a video of portion of a speech delivered by Dan Savage to a conference of high school journalists. Dan's speech was to be about bullying, and anti-gay bullying in particular, and Dan didn't bother being PC: He acknowledged up front that a lot of anti-gay sentiment comes from a literal reading of the Bible, and suggested that it is possible for Christians to learn to ignore that book's seemingly anti-gay sentiment, just as they ignore its prohibitions on the eating of shellfish and repeated endorsements of slavery.
This isn't an anti-Christian message. It's an anti-Biblical literalism message. But GOProud, just like the rightist media reporting on Dan's speech, seems to have missed that point. They released this statement yesterday:
Today, GOProud, a national organization of gay and straight Americans seeking to promote freedom by supporting free markets, limited government, and a respect for individual rights, condemned a speech given by left wing gay activist Dan Savage. "Dan Savage¹s outrageous anti-Christian tirade hurts, not helps, the fight for gay rights in this country," said Jimmy LaSalvia, GOProud Executive Director. "There is nothing incompatible between being a Christian and believing that all people should be treated equally, and Dan Savage¹s attacks on Christianity only fuel those on the extremist fringe who oppose gay rights.
"Dan Savage should apologize for his comments and should apologize to the high school students in attendance whom he called 'pansy-asses,'" continued LaSalvia. "It is ironic that someone whose claim to fame is fighting bullying would resort to bullying tactics in attacking high school students who were offended by his outrageous remarks.
"GOProud works with people of faith every single day gay and straight. We believe strongly that people of faith should be treated with respect," concluded LaSalvia.
... which is a rather gross mischaracterization of what occurred at Dan's speech, but oh well. GOProud's a political organization; good politics are its biz. Dan's a journalist, and his business is to tell the truth to the best of his ability. These ends are not always simpatico.
Well said, TERRY, bravo and thank you!
The crux of it for me is that religious people who are against us assume that just because THEY believe, in their god and bible, everyone else in our (secular) society does as well. Not so, and I find this assumption highly insulting.
Posted by: jim | Apr 29, 2012 4:48:51 PM
I'm confused, it that the real Rick posting today, or the fake Rick? Only asking because I'm finding myself strangely sorta in agreement with what he said!
Um, Kiwi, are you masquerading again? *wink*
Where is Kiwi, anyway, did he go out of town for the weekend or something?
Posted by: jim | Apr 29, 2012 4:50:54 PM
Sidenote to something else Rick said. I did have a teacher in high school (history) who did use words like bullsh*t, now and then. This was in smalltown Ohio, the mid-70s. He was the "cool" younger teacher, a bit rebellious and out-spoken. And he brought out the best in all of us, really engaged us in learning and questioning and THINKING. Even having graduated college, I still consider Jon Ulbright, in high school, the best teacher I had.
Posted by: jim | Apr 29, 2012 4:57:43 PM
I would never be friends with a GOProud member.
Posted by: Ken | Apr 29, 2012 5:00:05 PM
Does goproud know anything about fighting for gay rights? They say Dan has hurt out fight yet they do Nothing to help. I think we should email jimmy at goproud and ask what they do to help the fight. Dan has done more and will continue to do more then this group of clowns has ever done.
Really tho we should email him and ask, where's kiwi??
Posted by: GeorgeM | Apr 29, 2012 5:08:06 PM
I forgot to add, this is just another way for goproud to "fit in" with there republican buddy's. That and there religious buddy's
Posted by: GeorgeM | Apr 29, 2012 5:11:22 PM
@ Rick,
You're still carefully avoiding substance. Secular people are rightfully calling out the hateful lies in the Bible, and people of goodwill are increasingly in agreement. National opinion is turning against the Christianists and the lies in their scriptures. That may or may not upset you, but it's part of the world you have to wake up to every morning. If the change in American culture doesn't upset you, then you should say so. Make a comment based on substance, unless you're trying to disguise your agenda.
Posted by: Artie_in_Lauderdale | Apr 29, 2012 5:14:39 PM
Ok I sent an email
Posted by: GeorgeM | Apr 29, 2012 5:21:54 PM
Thanks Artie. But I'm thinking you didn't even read my initial comment. Feel free to go back and check it out. In the mean time I'll paste a relevant bit:
"As someone who criticized the tone of Savage's remarks (but NOT the substance -- believe it or not, there is a difference), I'd like to go on the record as saying that GOProud has completely mischaracterized the substantive content of the speech. Thanks, Brandon, for aptly pointing out that Savage's message was anti-literalism, not anti-Christian."
Posted by: Rick | Apr 29, 2012 5:23:47 PM
GOProud :
NO self respect.
No balls.
No integrity.
No dignity.
And selling your soul is not an attractive policy manifesto.
We should listen to GOProud just to destroy them.
Posted by: JackFkTwist | Apr 29, 2012 5:25:22 PM
@ Rick,
I considered your distinction between "anti-literalist" and "anti-Christian." As a hypothetical example, let's say that there are some Christians who don't consider the vile hate in the Bible as the literal word of God. They are still using that scripture to inform and inspire their religious practice. Until Christians renounce the anti-gay lies in the Bible and have nothing to do with them, they are guilty of spreading hate. I'm just curious, but did I inadvertently insult your relatives in… which region of the United States is it? You never did tell us which state you're writing from.
Posted by: Artie_in_Lauderdale | Apr 29, 2012 5:28:32 PM
I think Savage was absolutely correct in the content of his speech. But attacking someone's religion in the way that he did, as much as I disagree with said religion, makes no sense in an anti-bullying speech. Hypocritical.
Posted by: Julius | Apr 29, 2012 5:29:19 PM
I will respect Christianists when they respect me and my civil/constitutional rights. Homophobic hate is pretty much the norm in Christianity while those who aren't that way are a slim minority. Dan Savage was absolutely correct and GOProud needs to grow a spine and quit pandering to Christianist homophobes from whom they have no way on earth of gaining support from. I'm done playing PC games with these haters. You'll never teach them what they are until you confront their hate.
Posted by: Brad | Apr 29, 2012 5:31:57 PM
The funniest thing here though is that Dan Savage got his message wrong. Anyone who has ever taken a class in the Bible or studied it for themselves knows that the Old Testament was fulfilled in the New Testament, hence why the dietary laws are gone now.
In any case, this speech was bullying; it was an off-topic tirade against Christianity. Savage says that he is pushing back, but against whom? Did these journalists in the room attack him somehow? If a Muslim attacks us, should we punish all Muslims? Isn't this what liberals always complain about? If so, why is it okay to apply this treatment to Christians, but not Muslims? The hypocrisy is astounding.
Posted by: Michael | Apr 29, 2012 5:33:11 PM
There were no outrageous remarks made by Savage. He was telling the truth and of course, Christians of all denominations and the GOP despise the truth because it beings to light their hypocrisy. Sucks to be a hypocrite.
Posted by: Dale | Apr 29, 2012 5:39:05 PM
I don't understand what all the hoopla is about. To me, he was simply saying don't take the Bible LITERALLY. Don't cherry-pick the passages you want to hear and ignore the others. These right-wing "Christians" are revealing just how IGNORANT they are.
I suspect what really bothers them most is the fact that Savage has a better understanding of the Bible than they do. They simply don't know enough to successfully argue their point.
Perhaps they need to actually STUDY and READ the Bible, something most of them obviously haven't done.
Posted by: shle896shle | Apr 29, 2012 5:43:58 PM
Thanks Artie. I'm writing from NYC...for whatever that's worth.
I feel as if you are saying that Christians who do not read the Bible literally are nonetheless anti-gay. Which would come as a surprise to the many gay episcopalians I know.
Look, everything I've posted over the last two days has been en effort to expound on something Brandon wrote in his first entry oin this subject:
"While Savage might have profitably avoided the use of profanities (which, when used to describe allegedly sacred documents, tend to make believers less than receptive to whatever might come next), what he said was materially true."
I completely agree with that statement, and only sought to flesh it out.
Posted by: Rick | Apr 29, 2012 5:45:14 PM
@ Michael,
The New Testament is riddled with the homophobic comments of the Apostle Paul, as you're well aware, so please don't try to be coy. As far as concentrating on Christians, rather than Muslims, that's a practical matter, don't you think? Muslims, a tiny minority here in the U.S., don't represent the main opposition to LGBT rights in this country; Christians do. You're fooling no one.
Posted by: Artie_in_Lauderdale | Apr 29, 2012 5:48:42 PM
Hmmm, MICHAEL, perhaps you should give that pretty little explanation of yours to the Christians who call gay people abominations and use the Old Testiment when needed as their evidence.
Perhaps judgmental Christians get called out by nasty liberals more in this country than do Muslims because there are so many of them, and so many of them claim that this is a Christian Nation, and so many claim that we should be guided by Chrisian principles through government? Just a thought.
Posted by: TJ | Apr 29, 2012 5:53:05 PM
I bet Dan is all broken up about this.
Posted by: Mike in the Tundra | Apr 29, 2012 5:55:55 PM
@ Rick,
Thanks for your insightful reply. Yes, I'm well aware that major denominations that are trinitarian Christians are supportive of marriage equality (Episcopalian, Lutheran, United Church of Christ, etc). But I think there's no harm in pushing them to further distance themselves from the particularly hateful nonsense in both Old and New Testaments concerning sexuality.
My guess about the region where you live was wrong. I've read your comments over the last couple years, and some have struck me as so socially conservative that I had guessed you were writing from, let's say, some small town in Alabama. I breathed a sigh of relief when you said New York City. Cheers from Fort Lauderdale.
Posted by: Artie_in_Lauderdale | Apr 29, 2012 5:59:42 PM
GOProud is like Log Cabin Republicans. Need I say more ?
Posted by: James M | Apr 29, 2012 6:08:25 PM
Artie you sure that's the same rick?
Posted by: GeorgeM | Apr 29, 2012 6:08:42 PM
GOProud, Log Cabin Republicans, Black Republicans... They all make about as much sense as Blacks and Gays for the KKK.
Posted by: Fred F | Apr 29, 2012 6:12:57 PM
@ GeorgeM,
I'm reasonably sure I'm replying to the same Rick. In the context of comments he made months ago about how undesirable effeminate behavior is, he's made mention of the difference between Christians who believe the Bible literally and those who don't. At least, I think it's the same Rick.
Posted by: Artie_in_Lauderdale | Apr 29, 2012 6:15:43 PM