NOM’s Brian Brown Accepts Dan Savage’s Dinner Debate Challenge

Last week, Dan Savage invited NOM's Brian Brown for dinner and a taped debate on marriage and the Bible at his home. Savage laid out some possible conditions, all of which Brown has accepted.

BrownWrites Brown in a blog post:

Dan — I accept and will look forward to debating you at your dining room table. As I said in my challenge to you, anytime, any place.

While I appreciate the invitation that you have extended to my wife, she will not be able to attend. She is a full-time mom with seven beautiful children and an eighth on the way.

I have no objection to Mark Oppenheimer from the New York Times covering the discussion, nor to you hiring your own video crew to film the event, provided that I am able to hire my own video crew to be sure there is no creative editing of the discussion.

Not that a New York Times reporter would slant the news, mind you!

This will be fun!

Start popping the popcorn.

UPDATE: Savage responds.

So…

It looks like I'm gonna have to clear all the Catholic kitch out of our living room and dining room—my 5' plaster Jesus, our 3' plaster Mary, all my other plaster saints, the dozens of rosaries hanging around their plaster necks, the stack of disintegrating hymnals on the mantle, etc. Wouldn't want Brian to think there's something disrespectful about our collection. Our Catholic kitch is all family heirlooms. My late grandfather's rosaries, most of them prayed to pieces, were headed to the dump when I picked them out them out of the trash. But will knowing that my 5' plaster Jesus has been evacuated to our bedroom be more of a torment for Brian?

Details about the exact date and time of the Savage/Brown debate to come. The debate will be videotaped and released on YouTube. Stay tuned for more info…

Comments

  1. Electicon says

    I like how the WIFE can’t show up because of the baby on the way. Wouldn’t want to pollute the fetus with the gay.

    I mean, really. Just get it out there – “I don’t want my wife on the national news, looking like she is enjoying herself more with Dan Savage than with me.”

  2. Francis says

    Should be interesting. I won’t necessarily say it will be fun, but it should be interesting, and likely will be a trainwreck in the end. As long as Brian is made to look like an idiot, which isn’t hard since he does it on his own so easily and Dan really won’t have to do much to expose that, then this will have been a success.

  3. says

    I posted this to NOM’s Blog:

    Brian,

    I already know how it will go. Five minutes of niceties, after which you change the subject every time Dan asks a hard question. You’ll site data that is overwhelmingly discredited, ignore the real data, and throw in a red herring of some obscure research that was faked or irrelevant.

    No matter how much of a fool you make of yourself, you will go home pretending you “won”. Start saving your pennies, you’re not going to have a paycheck from NOM much longer.

  4. says

    8 kids? they aint all straight. Brown will one day have to thank Savage for saving his kid’s life. Brown, if he continues the way he’s been going, is destined to bury at least one of his children.

    But this debate will be hilarious. One side has facts, logic, consistency, evidence and citations. The other has Maggie Gallagher’s recipe for diabetes.

  5. proprop8 says

    Hmmm.

    If this first rejoinder of Dan’s is any indication, I think Brian is going to…errr….towel the floor with the excitable Mr. Savage.

    Come on, Dan, you can do better than *this*, can’t you?

    I mean, I get it- you just got called raising a on a busted flush but you are supposed to at least have entertainment value…..

  6. candide001 says

    I haven’t liked the idea from the start. Brown will have been thoroughly coached by the religious rights biggest intellectual guns like Princeton’s Robbie George. Will Savage be able to refute the New Natural Law Theory on which they base most of their arguments against same-sex marriage? Or biblical exegesis for that matter?

  7. says

    guys, remember this: “the religious right’s biggest intellectual guns” are like the Republican Party’s Most Well-Adjusted Gays.

    You’re still dealing with people who can only maintain their chosen opinions and stances by willfully ignoring legions of proven, backed-up factual realities.

  8. says

    I’m confused Dan, I was sure you worshipped yourself. This is no joke. Please save us from marriage. We don’t want it. Who would have an affair with you anyway? Save us from this generation’s mistake. Remember: One day you love someone. You will eventually hate them. Sadly, that’s how it goes. Intimate sex becomes “the same sex” over and over….

  9. candide001 says

    @littlekiwi I know they CAN be refuted, but is Savage on top of all the facts, research, philosophical theories etc. he’ll need to mount convincing counterarguments? The fact that in the initial incident he didn’t cover himself and pre-empt the inevitable attacks by addressing the New Covenant excuse Christians always use to justify not having to follow Levitican bans on shellfish, mixed fiber clothes, etc., makes me think he might be getting in over his head. It’s a mistake to arrogantly dismiss the intellectual abilities of the anti-gay legal and philosophical luminaries of the religious right.

  10. says

    there are no “convincing arguments” for people who choose to ignore facts so they can maintained their bigoted chosen opinions.

    that’s the frustration.

    there are no intellectual abilities to the religious right. that’s the thing – they have reasons for nothing and excuses for everything.

  11. daftpunkydavid says

    i’m sorry, i feel like this is more self-promotion (for both parties?) than anything substantive. what exactly do they hope to accomplish? do you really think that humiliating someone in public will get them to change their mind, or will get the public at large to change their mind? i’m not so sure. maybe the other “dinner party” with tony perkins and the gay couple in california (i believe) will be more productive (although i doubt even that).

  12. says

    This will be a bust for Savage who has repeatedly caved into the far right. The dinner will be amicable an both will walk away claiming they made headway but in reality, both will use the dinner and conversation against the other – all with great fanfare and picked up by Rachel, Fox, Anderson, Limbaugh, etc. Ridiculous.

  13. says

    and how can both claim to make “headway”?

    this isn’t a discussion about which of Tarantino’s films shows the best craftsmanship – it’s about the legitimacy of the religious-right’s pious and hypocritical attacks against the gay communities.

    there is no “agree to disagree” – one side is right and one side is pathetically wrong.

  14. Pierce_mn says

    What is this, Dan? La Cage Aux Folles? Why clear away the kitsch? Keep it out. Let him see it. It’s not offensive. He’s a guest in your house, so why should you have to apologize for your possessions, especially when they’re family heirlooms and have value to you?

  15. scott says

    Yeah…I don’t know how or when Dan Savage has ever caved to the far right.
    I have full confidence in him- that said, I am a bit anxious as to his debating skills- mind you, Savage is an incredible writer, humorist, etc., on a broad range of topics- not just gay rights. But I’m sure the NOM people are far more worried about their guy.

  16. Cliff says

    To Little Kiwi: Kinda frightening isn’t it. What I said was a little too true. Think about it. You’re the type who will have to make the mistake to find out. It has nothing to do with “bigots” this time. You will own this F-up.

  17. Cliff says

    Savage thinks he’s got the power of life and death in his hands. Imagining people’s fate by him declaring that their lives will get better. Maybe he can stop this generation’s mistake. Falling in love that turns to hate. The intimacy that turns to boredom. Who’s the first to admit it’s over? Did you sign that prenup? Men are not designed for monogamy, but you’ll have to find that out the hard way. So fight this guy Dan, it will be a victory for the losers. Find something to do with the children. They aren’t made of plaster.

  18. Cliff says

    Savage thinks he’s got the power of life and death in his hands. Imagining people’s fate by him declaring that their lives will get better. Maybe he can stop this generation’s mistake. Falling in love that turns to hate. The intimacy that turns to boredom. Who’s the first to admit it’s over? Did you sign that prenup? Men are not designed for monogamy, but you’ll have to find that out the hard way. So fight this guy Dan, it will be a victory for the losers. Find something to do with the children. They aren’t made of plaster.

  19. TJ says

    Yes, interesting that there will be no wife, cuz she’ too busy taking care of kids and being pregnant. Keeping the ball and chain barefoot and pregnant jokes aside, I know lots of mothers who enjoy dinner parties. I’ve known lots of pregnant women who socialize as long as they can. Don’t know how far along she is – maybe she’s too pregnant to travel. But something about this smacks of sabotage – denying Savage and his husband the opportunity to be considered human and worthy of social interaction.

  20. UFFDA says

    KIWI says “… this debate will be hilarious. One side has facts, logic, consistency, evidence and citations. The other has Maggie Gallagher’s recipe for diabetes.”

    I can’t stand KIWI but this is too good not to appreciate, it’s actually brilliant. What could be more useless, more devoid of authority than a fat woman’s recipe for diabetes! I’d have to kick his ass after putting a hundred dollar bill in his pocket.

  21. ElCid says

    Yeah, I look forward for that duel.
    But still, Dan Savage is on the edge (if not already there) of an antisocial personality disorder.
    Hey, the other guy ALSO is (and even worse). But it’s our own old Dan the one who worries me.

  22. ElCid says

    Yeah, I look forward for that duel.
    But still, Dan Savage is on the edge (if not already there) of an antisocial personality disorder.
    Hey, the other guy ALSO is (and even worse). But it’s our own old Dan the one who worries me.

  23. Kenneth says

    Wow the NOM trolls are out in force on here! Get real, Dan Savage has NEVER caved to the far right, and cliff-jason-rick-mary-whatever, just because you still prefer to confine yourself to bathroom cubicles don’t dare to think for a second you speak for all gay people. Furthermore, while marriage equality is of the utmost importance to our community for countless reasons, if you had ever read anything by Dan Savage, you would know that he is anything BUT an advocate of monogamy. Now go back and slobber at your favorite glory hole.

  24. Justin says

    I am excited. This won’t change either of their minds but it has the potential to be a great documented debate. I may not agree with Dan 100% but I do applaud Dan for fighting for equality while others sit behind a computer and question his intentions.

  25. Someone Out There says

    As someone said on another site, Brian Brown earns a quarter million dollars a year for his role in that racket known as NOM. If his wife wants to attend the debate, he can’t afford a babysitter? Or leave the kids with relatives? She can take a break from caring for the seven beautiful children. Spare me the false piety.

  26. Tonic says

    Get those cameras rolling! This should be fun to watch. Brian Brown makes such an ass of himself trying to wrap reality around his beliefs that the only way Dan Savage could look bad is if he got violent — which obviously isn’t going to happen.

  27. Mary says

    Kiwi, your cruelty regarding Maggie’s diabetes is no suprise to me. But Uffda, I’m disappointed in you…

    TJ, isn’t it possible that Brian just didn’t think it a good idea for the wife to be stressed out when pregnant? The debate might get rather heated and no one knows what a fiasco it could turn into. Her health and the baby’s health is what he should be more concerned with. And why can’t you respect the fact that some people want a lot of kids? This “barefoot and pregnant” type of putdown is really very 1971. No one forces women to bear children and stay home anymore.

    And Kenneth, I’m not homophobic anymore or an opponent of marriage equality, so please stop associating me with Rick-Jason-Cliff or whoever he is…..

    -Mary the former troll

  28. Cliff says

    TJ: What you said is always the assumption. I had a relationship for 14 years. I’m not talking about two losers keeping each other company. You sound like a clinger. Good luck.

  29. says

    My relationship is going pretty darn well so far. :-)

    And I’m not sure what any of that has to do with the simple factual reality that the “anti-gay-marriage” side doesn’t actually have any form of solid argument.
    Excuses for everything and reasons for nothing.

    I would know – I’ve been actively involved in this debate, in person to person encounters, since I was a teenager.

    Has anyone at any point ever heard anything remotely resembling a logical, solid “Argument” against Marriage Equality?

    how about you, CLIFF? Give me at least one sterling example, so i can see what we (and by association, Savage) will be up against.

    Just one. Because I’ve never heard one. I’ve heard the same bogus excuses for years, but nothing resembling an intellectually honest and valid argument.

    so try me.

    p.s. why do i get the feeling that some of you hate dan savage more than you care care about LGBT Equality? it’s kinda pathetic.

  30. Lewis Gannett says

    The comment level here is appalling. I guess it’s all over. Infantilism rampant. The debate is a wonderful idea. What’s not to like? And where does all the ridiculous fear come from? OK, here’s my theory. Level-headed, smart people simply don’t post, anywhere. Which is too bad.

  31. greg says

    Hey Dan,

    Book an Exorcist now; your home is about to be defiled by a self-loathing and destructive closet case. (What else but a cheap attention grab would motivate such a person to lie and lie and lie again about the truths about being gay). Surely, this is a sad and self-loathing man whose effects upon others could easily be labelled “evil”. Sexually secure people don’t behave like this. Greg

  32. Bill C says

    Great. But if Dan Savage uses off color language as per usual, he will “lose” the middle. His points are better, more rational and even more “Chritian-charitable”. He throws away his advantage to use colorful terms.

  33. says

    Savage is not up to this. He’ll raise his voice and use profanity. I’m told he knows scripture, but I doubt that he knows enough, or enough gay history, or the many arguments that would win this fight in three seconds flat.
    It’s the job of liberals in commercial media to provide weak arguments and get their asses regularly kicked by cretins on the right. I’m sure that’s what’ll happen here, judging by the name calling and profanity Savage has already used.

  34. Frank says

    Really, it takes so little knowledge about the bible to demonstrate the hypocrisy of using it for civil laws–or for any rational argument. Either you believe in ALL PARTS of the bible, or you don’t. Do they eat shellfish, do they stone prostitutes? And in the unlikely event they do, do they have the right to shove that crap down everyone’s throat? Done. Next argument. I’ve been looking for one, single non-religious, non-animus, rational, logical argument against gay marriage. Never heard one from anyone. Dan, I’m behind you 100%. He’s already a fool in our eyes. I hope you can show the foolishness of the arguments in some of his follower’s eyes.

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