Comments

  1. Caliban says

    Holy s**t!

    PREACH IT! Can I get a Hallelujah!

    It’s awesome that he challenged his congregation this way, didn’t tell them what they wanted to hear but what they needed to hear. I half to admit it’s surprising (for me anyway) to hear a passionate defense of gay rights spoken in that Southern Baptist cadence. Now compare him to “Bishop” Eddie Long, preaching hate for gays from the pulpit but grooming young men for sex behind the scenes.

  2. says

    Rev. Haynes is a brilliant, courageous man who speaks Truth. He makes clear that Obama is the President of the United States, not the Pastor of the United States, and that Obama has sworn to defend the Constitution, not the Bible.

  3. Rick says

    Can I get a A-MEN?

    I said, can i get a A-MEN?

    (Anybody notice, by the way, that most of the shouts of disapproval were coming from women?

  4. LiamB says

    So predictable, aren’t you, Rick. This unhealthy hatred of women is truly disturbing. You really should seek some mental health care.

  5. Wavin' Dave says

    I am white as snow, but can see that this truth-teller DESERVES to be in a pulpit, unlike most creepy clerics. The source of any tradition is in the message of the founder. Believe it. Or not. Truth wins every time.

  6. says

    I think I just found me a new CHURCH! PREACH IT, PASTOR! And THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus would be PROUD of YOU!!!!!!!!!!

  7. Rick says

    @Liamb You will see that when confronted with the very real possibility of men dispensing with their homophobia and truly embracing sexual and emotional freedom with each other–and with it, independence from women–women feel threatened by it and respond accordingly.

    Which is why the face of homophobia is increasingly female (Maggie Gallagher, Michelle Bachmann, Sara Palin, One Million Moms, Concerned Women for America, etc., etc.)

  8. Steve says

    Even if they are against gay marriage, the solution is simple: don’t get gay married

    People just need to stop involving themselves in other peoples’ lives and stop telling then how to live

  9. MateoM says

    Everybody ignore Rick. As you can see, he lures you in with something positive, then adds in some of his normal anti-women rant (which I’m sure will morph into an anti-femme rant later in the comments). IGNORE THE TROLL AND IT WILL STARVE AND DIE AWAY.

  10. says

    this man f***ing ROCKS! this is what fire, passion and integrity look like when they come together.

    this man is my hero of the day. proud to call you brother.

  11. Rick says

    Oh, I’ll tell you feminist liberal leftist effeminate queens why I hate women. Because my mother used to hog my dad’s c*ck and that’s not fair because I liked sucking on it, and I know I was damn better at it than she was.

  12. Ted B. (Charging Rhino) says

    I’ve often wondered if some of the open hostility towards homosexuality in the church-going Black community…especially from the Hat Ladies…stems from their know full-well what’s really going-on right-in-front-of-them with their own men and their sons and fathers being on the Down-Low…of the open-fear that they might be? Gay sexuality is perceived as such a threat to in integrity of their families and marriages that they react viscerally to any discussion of gay rights is a direct affront to their Matriarchal authority.

  13. says

    Just as gay republicans have to neuter themselves in order to win “tolerance” from straight republicans – cut your balls off, so you appear non-threatening, because the last thing Republicans want is to be around gay people who have the spines needed to stand up for themselves, and for others.

    That’s why there’s overwhelming open hostility towards LGBT people from the Republican communities – it’s a culture of women who get beat by their ignorant husbands if they don’t drop to their knees to blow them while dinner is cooking, and a culture of boys who never learned to stand up to daddy and his bogus, and factually incorrect, opinions on government and culture.

  14. HM2 Matt says

    As a proud Atheist I would happily attend this man’s church, and enjoy myself.

    Amen indeed.

  15. Houston says

    Just a note: he is NOT excoriating his congregation. Listen to the sermon. He is excoriating the Pastors around the country who got all hot and bothered. Nonetheless, this guy is smart. He almost convinces me to go to his church even though I’m atheist.

  16. NY2.0 says

    We need more pastors like this, congregations in minority communities need to be confronted about their blatant hypocrisy.

  17. dh says

    Brave man.

    As for the hat ladies, their overt homophobia comes from their concern that “all the good black men are either married, gay, or in jail.” Their homophobia is driving the dl phenomenon and their rising HIV rate for black women.

  18. Dastius Krazitauc says

    “Just a note: he is NOT excoriating his congregation.”

    Well, he says, “Y’all aren’t feeling this, but I’m going to preach the Gospel anyhow”. That was directed at the congregation.

  19. HM2 Matt says

    @ Mark, Don’t get your hopes too high. It is nice to see a Pastor flexing his rational muscle though.

  20. Caliban says

    His sermon does seem more aimed at other pastors, those who burned up the phone lines in a conference call to Obama, but that’s a pretty standard rhetorical trick. Talk about somebody else when your audience needs to hear those words too. That way you don’t put them on the spot but you still get your message across.

    For example, “I have this *friend* who is always going on and on about effeminate men but he really needs to get a f**cking grip and worry about his own little patch of the world instead of minding everybody else’s.”

  21. Tanoka says

    Oh Rick, you so silly. Now hush while the adults are talking.

    It makes me sad that this video is surprising and unique. If only more priests and pastors would see the trut, and then speak it.

  22. Rick says

    “That’s why there’s overwhelming open hostility towards LGBT people from the Republican communities-it’s a culture of women who get beat by their ignorant husbands if they don’t drop to their knees to blow them while dinner is cooking”

    What proportion of the homophobic women in this congregation do you all suppose are Republicans? Honest answer, now.

  23. says

    hey RICK, before you want an “honest” anything you could always grow a pair and prove that you’re what you claim to be. wimp 😀

    insisting that the overwhelming force of anti-gay prejudice in America is the fault of women, or black people, is a white conservative coward’s way of ignoring that his own piece-of-s**t family doesn’t do a damn thing to promote Equality.

    there’s your honesty.

  24. Rick says

    “it’s a culture of women who get beat by their ignorant husbands if they don’t drop to their knees to blow them while dinner is cooking”

    Oh, and–I just can’t resist this–do you suppose Marcus Bachman is beating up Michelle and that she is dropping to her knees while dinner is cooking……or do you suppose it is the other way around?

    Again, honest answers only please. LOL.

  25. ratbastard says

    Black people have problems with sexuality? ALL people have problems with sexuality.

    He’s an honest man saying stuff people don’t want to hear.

  26. says

    If you want to support him then order the sermon (the collection plate isn’t their main revenue stream). The sermon ID is at 00:25 and the phone number is at the end of the clip. Maybe you could give it to someone who needs to hear it.

  27. elg/edwin says

    Andy, now let’s see a video of a prominent WHITE pastor saying these same gay affirming things to his WHITE, or mostly white, congregation.

  28. says

    He’s a very honest man “Ratbasrd.” And what’s most interesting about his sermon is that he relates his flock’s problem with homsoexuaity to their problems with all sexuality. He’s very thorough. I hope we’ll see and hear more from him.

  29. Greg says

    I like the preaching style and the fact that the congregation agrees with him.

    For those who have never been in a Worship setting like this – they are standing in agreement, not trying to shout him down. The one’s sitting, which is the minority, are the ones who disagree.

  30. Michaelandfred says

    Again, if Obama’s support on this has no other single effect, for this it will be remembered as historic. Opening the gates for the black community to finally face this subject head on. This discussion has been far too long in coming and huge numbers of black LGBT youth have suffered tremendously because of it. Not to mention the greater community.

    This man, Sharpton and the rest, the NAACP… More and more will now feel covered when speaking out. It’ll be messy, but at least it’s happening. Amen is right!

  31. MikeMick says

    @ ELG/ELWIN — you can hear it almost every week at my church, as well as must UU and UCC congregations.

  32. castaway says

    I liked what he had to say. But where in hell do these pastors learn to “talk-a like-a that-a?” All those North Carolina preachers during the recent protest –also. WTF

  33. Homo Genius says

    Being from Dallas I can say that the blacks here are really funny. To me most are very obvious but usually very closeted. I am often amazed that they claim to be straight. Others in their community seem to either be really dumb or willfully ignorant as they act like these guys are straight as well. The ones who are out tend to be, well, lets just say flaming. Lol. and even then Aunt So and So still wont clue in that he’s a homo.

  34. Rick says

    @Greg While it is true that in black churches, congregants often reinforce the message of the pastor by shouting their approval, that is not what was going on here–and you would have to be a little naive to convince yourself of that. Even if some of the congregation agreed, it is entirely unrealistic to think that in a Baptist church in Dallas, Texas the majority did and felt so strongly about it that they were shouting their approval.

    Reality check.

    No, those were definitely shrieks of horror and objection that you were hearing….and that is born out further by the fact that the preacher did not stop his sermon at all to encourage the congregation to participate……as black preachers often will if the congregation is with him.

    Also note that the preacher himself stated in the sermon that “y’all are not feeling it” and “I know I am going to lose some of you with this”

  35. KenWebb says

    First off,….the “church” has strayed as far as it possibly can FROM its actual duty and what a “church” was ment to be. The Church was never supposed to be a building,…ever. 2nd,…Gay people were not nor have they ever been a calling by Jesus Christ to rise up against, Gay could not possibly a bigger absolute non-issue.

    3rd thing is every religious group of people in a church,…white or black or purple or any color that purposes to be lead around by it’s base emotions – wether it be fear or what-have-you will always fail because the very nature of human emotion that is based at all with ANY sort of selfish ambition wether it be having the best hair,..prettiest hat or best dressed children or the loudest AMEN has already utterly and completely failed – failed way before they even got down the list to sexuality let alone Gay people.

    Marriage is for the most part a financial decision to save money and a Religious event so you can look happy and get the most attention and at its very core be all about ME. If the church was truly about following Jesus Christ and adhering to his example and teachings 1) they would not have a huge building with a mortgage. 2) the church would be about feeding the hungry 3) proving shelter for those who need it 4) taking care of those in poverty. There would be no conditions of them helping people -EVER. The idea of ruling state and federal politicians would never even be an idea in their minds and Gay Marriage would not matter one tiny little bit.

    Do women feel upset if men would rather participate in gay behavior that be with another woman? Of course! All that says to a woman is they are less desirable to their own men,….add in the other selfish motivations about mixed couples of lighter dark skin,…or even white girls with black men or white men with black women,…..my goodness there is so much selfish mental anguish already going around that any topic that pops up is ripe for explosive emotional discourse,……

    The church has become such a joke,….of epic purportional discourse that it has ceased to function as it should have 100’s of years ago,…dare I even say 1000’s of years ago.

    Sadly,….most churches – if Jesus actually dropped by,….would Not let him preach from the pulpit,….and more wouldn’t even let him in. Jesus didnt seem to have his own place,…he stayed with other people,……did not hang out with the religious people,..in-fact he called them out. Jesus hung out with the poor,..the unpretty and the outcast of society. Sadly,…..today’s church would have very little to do with this man called Jesus Christ,…. And if the “church” ever wanted to get back on track,…..Gay Marriage wouldn’t even be an issue,….because Jesus NEVER taught political over throw or ” The Homosexual Agenda” because Jesus taught EVERYONE was inclusive,…he taught love and compassion,…he taught actions 1st,….because words mean nothing if your heart didn’t mean it and your actions didn’t prove your love and compassion.

  36. Chica says

    If I were Christian this would be my new church!!! I’d even wear a hat! lol

    People keep referring to the protesting hat ladies..the one they show close up isn’t mad, she’s saying “preach, Freddy!”. I think most of the congregation is supporting him. (although I’m sure not all) I would imagine this congregation has many people who feel the way he does. I mean this CAN’T be the first time he’s brought this subject (or homosexuality in general) up and he seems to be a truth telling, see things as they really are, kind of man. I can’t imagine people who don’t subscribe to his philosophy would be followers.

    Anyway. WELL DONE! Proud to call Dallas my home today. Hope the video is going viral as we speak.

  37. Dego says

    Disclosure: I am the whitest of guys, Agnostic-verging-Atheist-raised Catholic in the heart of Pennsyltucky..

    But, you ALL need to turn up your volume when listening to this clip. His congregation is APPLAUDING him. They are smiling, They are not giving him grief. I love the hat-wearing lady (sorry Rick!) at @2:33 that says “Preach it Freddy!”

    I understand that it’s not common in a lot of tighter wound Catholic and Protestant Churches, but in some black Churches, Mass is a participation sport. It is a dialogue, not a sermon.

    Drop your pre-conceptions and listen openly and this is an even MORE powerful uplifting and encouraging clip. LOVE it.

  38. Barca says

    You can’t say these are shouts of approval or disapproval. It LOOKS like approval, the two women they show are smiling, and when the camera cuts to the congregation many are standing and clapping. Read the lips of the lady in the photo (with the hat) – she is saying “Preach Freddy”. That photo is a misrepresentation of what is happening in this church.

    IMO he is speaking to the black leaders (religious?) who came out against Obama. Hold a conference call he says? That’s exactly what they did with Obama when they opposed him supporting SSM.

    As for the black community and homosexuality, the term “on the down low” ring a bell? It’s used for the black community primarily so there must be some truth to the fear of homosexuals in the community. Unfounded but it’s there.

  39. Barca says

    @Diego…Damn you beat me to it. People need to pay attention to what is happening and not ASSUME they know what is happening in the church. Agreed…black churches are FAR more participatory than non-black churches.

  40. Dego says

    thanks @Barca I’m glad I wasn’t the only one that saw that.

    And I’m seriously considering my first ever donation to a Baptist Church.

  41. Jack M says

    Americans in general have problems with sexuality. In most (I said most) other countries it is a fact of life.

  42. Randy says

    Wow. It’s refreshing to hear words like these more often from religious leaders. To keep going after obvious disagreement takes integrity.

  43. Dego says

    sigh…. @Randy, there was NO disagreement from his congregation. that’s the beauty of the clip.

  44. Bart says

    Wow…he called them out, didn’t he? I imagine whomever that was directed towards (whomever called the ‘conference call’) must have some “issues” as the Reverend calls it. And I would imagine everyone knows who that is.

    But I applaud him. That was brave.

  45. Shelly says

    Wow, I am a Buddhist and my partner has been out of work for a year so we are struggling to make ends meet, but I am absolutely sending this preacher and his parish a contribution along with an email of thanks for the passionate message of solidarity.

  46. Feral says

    Ditto the comments saying those women and others are applauding. The ones disagreeing are sitting! You should take that woman’s photo off this post IMMEDIATELY. Really irresponsible.

  47. Kelly says

    I’d be proud to call him my Pastor. And I didn’t see his congregation rising up in anger towards him. I saw the ones standing agreeing. Good for him in speaking the truth. May he continue to do so in Dallas for years to come.

  48. ratbastard says

    @Jack M,

    What a load of sh*t. And yes Jack, I’ve ‘traveled’ and lived outside the U.S.

  49. Jonster says

    As far as women being more homophobic than men, I find that to be untrue. Especially African American Women. Mildred Loving, who with her White husband is responsible for the ban on interracial marriage being struck down, came out for gay marriage long ago. So did Coretta Scott King. What did they get for it? A big shout down from the black pastors who had a “conference call” and decided they had to shut these women up. But can you think of two women more qualified to speak on the subject?

  50. Dave says

    Amen and God Bless you brother for standing up for the truth and justice and equal rights of ALL people. At last a black man who knows the law and rights of ALL Americans. Only the ignorant do not know their rights and it seems some of the African Americans do not remember that they could not marry a white woman only a few years ago because of some anti-black Christian law makers who refused to give equal rights to African Americans only because their skin color was black. As a gay Christian I would love to go to this mans church. Religion to me all about the truth and freedom for all. God Bless you Pastor Haynes, I know you will be going to heaven for you truly are a man of God.

  51. Ricco says

    How is it that even when the message is a totally positive one that the conversation still devolves into one of negativiteeee!

    You have issues . . . I said you have issues brothers and sisters.

    You are majoring in things Jesus minored in!!

  52. Shelly says

    Amen to that, Ricco!

    Some folks (and we all know who they are) are so miserable they find no joy and positivity in anything.

    And thank you Kelly, and thank you to your pastor and parish for the overwhelming display of the true spirit of Jesus’ love and appeal for justice and equality toward all. It truly warms and touches my heart, as I’m sure it does so many others against whom religion has long been used as a weapon of oppression and bigotry.

  53. Shelly says

    And Jonster, I agree wholeheartedly. My experience among African American women even down here in the deep south has been overwhelmingly accepting and empathetic. Rick seems unable to take in any new information without finding therein more “evidence” to support his overwhelming misogyny and internalized homophobia, though he and Ratbastard are typically the only ones who can see it.

  54. says

    the reality that homophobic women are also anti-woman women is lost on the misogynostic self-hating gay men that troll this site.

    coulter? palin? bachmann?
    they’re a misogynists wet-dream: women, that like the wimps of GOProud, trumpet the ideals of The Ruling Class in order to win favor.

    there are no strong empowered women who feel that those homophobic females of the GOP are empowered women. they’re slaves to male prejudice.

  55. Scott says

    A-MEN!!!!!

    Preach it, sir!

    If only I lived there- I’d join that church in a heartbeat. Thank you for standing up for the truth Pastor- and for equality and fairness- especially when it probably wasn’t easy.

  56. elg/edwin says

    @MIKEMICK
    “@ ELG/ELWIN — you can hear it almost every week at my church, as well as must UU and UCC congregations.”

    What I should have said was ‘Andy, now let’s see a video of a prominent white BAPTIST pastor saying the same gay affirming things to his white, or mostly white, BAPTIST congregation.’

  57. Derrick from Philly says

    “At last a black man who knows the law and rights of ALL Americans.”

    Yep, we’ve sure had a lot of White ones who “know” for the last 300 years.

  58. tinkerbelle says

    I think Rick has a point too. Closeted black men on the “down low”, closeted any and everybody else—well there’s no name for it other than closeted—women feel the “competition” because it’s there. And the more they’re aren’t getting any, the more they must be frustrated. This of course is a gross simplification of the issue, but excuse me, it only took me 2.4 seconds to figure Michele Bachmann’s husband out.

    Where is Pastor Frederick Haynes’ church? I would like to make a donation…

  59. Rick says

    Some of you people absolutely crack me up. The preacher was blasting his own congregation for their homophobia. If someone is dressing you down for something, do you get up and cheer them on?

    LOL.

    I think what we have here is a case of a) a bunch of white folks who don’t know anything about black culture (standing up or remaining seated in a black church during a sermon is not an indication of whether or not one approves of what is being said–“testifying” occurs most often from the seated position, as a matter of fact)…..and b) who are absolutely desperate to avoid having to face the truth about women and homophobia, since they have taken their cues from feminists for so long and have not yet outgrown that tendency.

    As for the latter, however, you will have no choice but to face reality in the long run.

    Freeing men from their emotional and sexual dependence on women threatens the only source of power women really have, which is social….and, like any group of people, when their source of power is threatened, they will begin to lash out at the source of the threat.

    Whether you like it or not, the best interests of gay men do not coincide with those of women.

    Women have historically been marginally less hostile towards gay men than straight men have largely because male homosexuality was not a threat to their identity the way it was to straight men….and as long as gay men knew their place in society and stayed in it (and as long as a homophobic male culture could be depended upon to keep them in it), women had little to fear from us and could adopt us as their little “pets”, as it were–not men to be taken seriously as men the way straight men were, of course, but sources of entertainment and amusement (and practical advice). It was all very condescending and unequal, but because gay men had few other social options, they took it.

    That whole equation is changing, as the male culture changes, though….and it is no accident that as homophobia among men fades, it is becoming more evident among women…..and that is only a trend that is likely to become more obvious with time.

    Sorry, but that is just the way it is.

  60. tinkerbelle says

    Rick, I think it’s fairly obvious that the best interests of gay men do not coincide with those of women, in fact at times those interests are completely in polar opposition. A s far as hostility, I’ve encountered more from straight women than from straight men. But this is not a discussion I wish to have now. As far as the issues concerning Afro-Americans (they are not the same issues as with French African nationals), I realize that the gay issue just compounds the overall and continued “stratification” of blacks in america. I’m white, and therefore cannot fully feel the situation. This doesn’t mean I don’t try.

  61. Derrick from Philly says

    “I think what we have here is a case of a) a bunch of white folks who don’t know anything about black culture…”

    Well, you tell us all about it, Miss Margaret Mitchell…please.

  62. Rick says

    @Shelly Question for you, as a lesbian. Feminists, including lesbians, regularly talk about men being “threatened” by “independent” and “strong” women….and encourage women to be as emotionally and sexually and socially independent of men as possible, so as to “empower” themselves.

    Explain to me why, when a gay man (or straight man, for that matter) does the same thing-but substitutes the word man or men for the word woman or women–you think he should be classified as a “misogynist”, if you are not going to consider lesbian/feminists who do the same thing to be man-haters.

    I am not trying to fight with you, but I really would like to hear an explanation from you.

    I don’t “hate women”, but I do hate a culture in which men have been made artificially dependent on women socially and emotionally, in part as a means of maintaining homophobia, although I don’t know whether the chicken or the egg came first.

    Women have benefited enormously from that dependence–indeed, I think it is the main reason feminism advanced in the West, when it has been rejected elsewhere.

    Thoughts?

  63. jt says

    I wondered when someone would make a sightly off color remark… “finally a black man that understands…” not the best phrasing…i must say…but you did give “Derrick( cant pass a black related post without racially trolling) from Philly” the chance to make his usual whiney self absorbed comments. As a mixed (black/white) gay man with a black boyfriend…we need to start taking our comunities to task. I rail against racism in the gay community…and we must ALSO take the black community to task for their homophobia. This pastor did that in the most honest and respectful way…and we need more like him. Thats why i follow the logic of men like Bill Cosby and my father….by demanding that we as a culture demand better from ourselves than how we were treated. Expect better and be better because we know how it feels…STILL know how it feels…to be singled out. Any arguement against that logic is pandering to lowered expectations that have been branded on us since the slave days. Bravo Pastor…..BRAVO!!!

  64. JB says

    Andy,
    You should really change the wording on your description of this video. The congregation is shouting its approval of what he’s saying, not disapproval. What a great clip to watch on a Friday afternoon!

  65. Chuck Mielke says

    At last! Some secular truth in a church sermon: President, not pastor; personal opinion, not policy; own and understand our reactions, not blame and stigmatize our brethren.

    What a courageous sermon! Delivered with such verve!

  66. Rick says

    “Well, you tell us all about it, Miss Margaret Mitchell…please”

    LOL.

    Now look, punk, I know this gonn’ come as a shock, but I was the original wi****, befo wi****s even existed and long befo Eminem shot out of his mama’s skinny white a$$….and anybody I grew up with will tell you that.

    Why you think I got YOU all figguhed out, baby?

    Yeah, that’s right.

    And I have references, too.

  67. Derrick from Philly says

    “i must say…but you did give “Derrick( cant pass a black related post without racially trolling) from Philly” the chance to make his usual whiney self absorbed comments.”

    Well, Miss Mixed Race, JT, why don’t you just absorb yourself into your black boyfriend and see if Miss Rick can teach you something about “black culture”.

    Talk about “self absorbed” who gives a f.ck how yella’ you are or how black your boysfriend is.

  68. Derrick from Philly says

    “…so tired of the negroes”

    Then move back to that London brothel your female ancester worked at before she came to the “New World”.

    Hey, JT:

    You criticize me for “trolling” on racial issues on Towleroad. I stayed away from this discussion all day just like I’ve tried to many times when the issue could possible become race. But someone who I admire will post (ChiTown Kev, Little Kiwi, ElG, etc)and then I can’t help but see what they were responding to. That’s when I run across some racially stupid statement like “At last a black man who….”

    F.CK You, b.tch!

    Hey, JT, you criticize me, but will you ever speak up when Black people are insulted on this blog? I don’t think so. The Black part of you is worthless to you, Peola.

    You mentioned about a year ago that it’s your father who is Black. Well, that aint nothin’ new. A lot Black men who crave White women despise other Black folks (remember OJ Simpson?). And even though you have a black boyfriend I guess that’s something y’all both share in common with your Daddy.

  69. Shelly says

    Rick, let me preface this by saying that I do heed the increasing amount of research that indicates people who feel especially passionate about any given cause are significantly more prone to unwittingly filter and distort incoming information such that it reinforces what they already believe to be true rather than challenges it, and as much as I perceive this behavior in you, I have been carefully watching my own reactions to and self-talk about news stories and so forth and do recognize this as a behavior I also am prone to, as it seems everyone is to one degree or another. So, I think opportunities to discuss things with people who see the same stuff 180° differently from ourselves can be truly valuable so long as we do our best to drop our armor and really listen/try to be as objective as possible. So, thank you, and I apologize for any previous snarkiness and will try to avoid it in the future.

    On that note, I’ll come right out and state that I do strongly agree with your frequent observation that homophobia is more strongly rooted in a reaction against deviations from gender roles than it is in sexual orientation as-such. As a child, I was bullied as I’m sure most of us here were. All of it came from boys, and all of it was pointedly directed at ways in which I deviated from the norms of femininity and especially how my appearance and behavior flew in the face of what straight males perceive of as desireability. So, way before I had any inkling of “sexuality” of any sort, I was universally ostracised as the “fat, ugly lezzie Medusa” (on account of my kinky hair) and they would all “freeze” as if turned to stone whenever I was spotted walking in their direction. And ever since then, it has seemed really blatantly obvious that the dynamic at play is to shame and degrade people whose appearance and behavior deviates from the cultural gender norms as a tribalistic indicator of in-group/out-group status.

    Additionally, I will admit openly that I have struggled my entire life with a ton of internalized misogyny because from the time I was very little it seemed blatantly obvious that the more feminine and “girly-girl” one behaved and appeared, the less likely they were to be taken seriously as intelligent, strong, and capable, and I resented the confines of the strict gender normative behavior I was being pigeonholed into. So, even though I was ostracized for not being feminine/attractive enough, I also felt rebelliously compelled to have as little to do with “stupid, frilly, fru-fru, girly stuff.”

    And so, that’s the lens I tend to see homophobia through — that both men and women who do not fit what is culturally held as gender normative appearance and behavior are viciously discriminated against. However, it seems to me that although you acknowledge that lesbians and feminists in general note the way men feel threatened by and stamp down on women who deviate from that tight pigeonhole, you seem to believe that the disdain effeminate men are treated with is only right and proper rather than recognizing as I do that the root of homophobia is misogyny itself. So from my admittedly subjective perspective, the fact that you seem to go way out of your way to disparage women AND effeminate gay men appears to me that you have just internalized that attitude and are turning it against both women and other gay men who also deviate from the apparent ideal of masculinity.

  70. john patrick says

    Wow! This is one of the clearest and most powerful statements of what is really going on in churches of anything I have heard.

  71. Erwin says

    I think the title of the article should be changed. Simply because he wasn’t clear on his actual stance. So what was his stance on gay marriage? He never gave his stance, he never agreed to it or disagreed. He simply stated he didn’t feel the anger projected at P. Obama’s personal opinion was warranted. He isn’t ripping his congregation for opposing gay marriage. He’s ripping them for getting mad over another persons opinion when there are other issues more pertinent to discuss before even getting to that topic at hand. The gospel message is God loves enough to send His son to die for ALL. Who are we to judge.

  72. Chitown Kev says

    @Erwin…

    even given what you say, it’s still unusual for a BAPTIST pastor to preach that type of acceptance of other people view that, according to accepted interpretations, contradicts The Word

  73. Matt says

    AAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!! I’ve never heard a Southern Baptist sermon before; the elocution and rhythm are quite beautiful!

  74. TruthHurts says

    I am not surprised. Dr. Haynes preached at Trinity Church in Chicago as a guest pastor. Trinity has Dr. Moss who is also supportive of the LGBT community.

  75. aLEXX says

    God, any god, worth his salt and creator and guide to his people would preach compassion, empathy, and understanding.

    I applaud this man, not just as a pastor, but as a human being.

  76. antisaint says

    @ Erwin — he also made the point of Jesus himself not saying anything about homosexuality, which is a little shocking.

    I have to disagree with Rick and assorted other about the congregation. Those women were voicing their support. For one, I grew up in churches like these. If you grow up in that environment you know what it sounds like, and dissent is so rarely seen, so any casual visitor would never see it to know it. Members of the congregation of most churches would not shout out like they’re at a protest if they disagreed. They would probably not stand up.

    I’ve seen ministers get corrected at times by members of the congregation or other clergy. Dissent runs through the crowd, and what’s in that video isn’t what it sounds like. I’ve seen a muslim man who was speaking about something unrelated to religion dare to speak the Shahada before a Christian congregation (that was some ish!). Those people are in agreement with him.

    @ Shelly – you are awesome.

  77. jt says

    I guess i struck a nerve in Derrick…truth hurts…dont it. Sit down….(grins) good to see racism alive and well alongside homophobia in the black community….well…the part you come from anyway derrick…from philly. :)

  78. MaddM@ says

    I think this is a read on southern baptists in general, and when he says “I know I’m gonna lose some of you” he means he knows some will leave his church for something more conservative that will serve up the hate people are looking for.

    This is incredibly refreshing and I think the only way that christianity will be able to move into a new more pluralistic age or else they will meet more and more opposition until something comes to a head (see- fundamentalist christians with Revelations fantasies)

  79. UFFDA says

    RICK – looking forward to your anwer to SHELLY who has posted brilliantly – and we have all weekend since Brandon can hardly get anything done – one column to Andy’s four or more. A nice break actually.

    I certainly agree with you that the fake effeminant man (those who elect to behave effeminetly) is a thorn in the general acceptance of homosexuality. There are nevertheless many wonderful effeminant men who can’t help their mannerisms and I love them much. I wish you could make room for them.

    But SHELLY has raised other good points, I am interested. Wishing everyone well except ENDO and KIWI who should be in a well.

  80. vanndean says

    This preacher has done something that none of the other pro-equality proponents have done. He linked his support to the pertinent constitutional principle and to the president’s support of that constitutional principle. I find it so strange that so many Americans are so hung up on the importance of the 1st and the 2nd amendments and have not a single clue of how important the 14th amendment is to our society.

  81. says

    Anti-gay Christians are seeing their world fall down around them with instances like this, I see it as the work of God. The biggest fear they have is other Christians calling them out for what is at best an un-healthy fixation on homosexuality. Do these anti-gay Christians heed correction from their fellow brethren? No. Instead they dig their feet in the ground and put more chairs up on the Church doors to keep gays out like they were the living dead. I also want to say this. Many anti-gay Christians believe they are following the Word Of God. That is what they were taught from bad Bible translations and from their pulpits that back it up.

    Come from a place of understanding and mercy and forgive them.

  82. Bc says

    Bravo! I called the church and added my support to this amazing truth teller.
    1-866-366-3138

  83. GaryJ says

    I’m glad to see that brave men of God standing up and speaking on marriage equality. And it is a brave thing to do, he could lose his church and get kicked out of denomination the church is part of.

    Amen!

  84. Bad Humor Boy says

    Rev. Haines may need to hang out more often in that “ignorance-projection” territory, and explore further how the self-righteous expose themselves in judging others.

    Thank you, Jesus, for the Gospel Truth. Thank you, Rev. Haines for preaching it!

  85. Brian says

    I completely agree with him. All of you, though, are hypocrites. I’ve read many articles about Christianity here on Towleroad. In most of them the comments are dismissive and rude. Now, when one pastor says something good, everyone answers with an “amen”. Ridiculous.

  86. Brian says

    I completely agree with him. All of you, though, are hypocrites. I’ve read many articles about Christianity here on Towleroad. In most of them the comments are dismissive and rude. Now, when one pastor says something good, everyone answers with an “amen”. Ridiculous.

  87. Geoff says

    “Wow”. Just “Wow!”. Perfect. Hit all the points…forcefully, articulately – beautifully.

  88. says

    Bad headline: Rev. Haynes is not “ripping” his own congregation, he is actually ripping his fellow pastors who express outrage against homosexuals and who criticized President Obama for expressing his personal views on gay marriage.

  89. noteasilyoffended says

    Rick- Just because you believe something doesn’t make it true. It is simply an opinion and nothing more. It has no greater value than any one else’s.

  90. JellyBean says

    There is something going on in Dallas. One of the largest gay churches is in Dallas – “The Cathedral of Hope.”

    Rick and Kiwi – if want to carry on a shouting match go to instant messaging. Stop hogging this blog.

  91. Kareem says

    This is amazing!! Just one clarification: As a black, gay man raised in the Baptist church, let me tell you, the congregation was voicing SUPPORT, not objection. As is traditional, we standup and wave our hands when we are in support of the Gospel. This is amazing!

  92. Linda says

    I love LOVE and That is what this preacher is preaching LOVE LOVE LOVE!

    Congrats to Obama for being a True and Good Man!

  93. Shelly says

    Brian, although a high percentage of comments on articles about religion may well be “dismissive or rude” on account of our community’s widespread resentment of having religion used as a weapon against us all our lives, by no means are all of us expressing ourselves that way, and besides, scratch just beneath the surface of the hostility and the woundedness is still very obvious.

    I was raised Catholic but left in my teens for reasons unconnected with sexuality/gender and for the last three decades am a Buddhist, and one if the commitments I carry is not to disparage other’s religious beliefs, so I walk a bit of a tightrope of trying to remember disagreement and even dissent when beliefs lead to harm of others is appropriate, but hatred and aggression against those I disagree with is not. But jeez Louise! It wasn’t until I saw this video yesterday that I really was able to recognize how harmful hearing Jesus’ message of love and outreach to the despised and disenfranchised twisted into a bludgeon against us has been over the course of my life, and how HEALING it felt to see a preacher in one of the most antagonistic denominations stand up against his bigotted peers and so passionately and inspiringly and courageously declare that this is NOT what Jesus was all about and it needs to STOP. I mean, THAT, to my mind, is Christ-like behavior.

    So, yeah, I’ll say “Amen!” to that, and I’m sure a lot of the other “Amens” in this thread are coming from a similar place. I think you’re being too harsh in coming down on us for it.

  94. jamal49 says

    @RICK: I stopped being dependent upon women, artificially, emotionally or otherwise, oh, around the time I was weaned off my Mama’s breast. You might want to try it. It makes a real difference in your outlook on life.

    As for the “socially dependent” claim, that ended the moment I knew I was gay and accepted it. Which is the whole point of me being gay. This was, by the way, around 6 or 7 years old. I didn’t have a name for it, for what I was feeling, but I knew that I was different and I wasn’t going to be able to “depend” on any one, let alone women, to get through what I had already known was going to be a long and difficult experience until I was able to get out into the world on my own.

    (I will admit, however, that I have had some women friends upon whom I have depended to go out with me to clubs (gay and straight) in order that we might shake our bootys to the ground.)

    I’ve read your posts before and you really seem to be obsessed and somewhat averse, pathologically almost, with femininity. Which implies misogyny. Which implies homophobia. Which implies self-hatred about your gay self (although I kinda doubt that you ARE gay).

    See, I know some very effeminate men who have had a “street life” and, Rick, honey, they could kick your ass clear into next week before you would even get a chance to lift your pinky finger. And they could do it without even breaking a Lee Paste-on Nail.

    You also seem obsessed, pathologically almost, with some very strange notions about “masculinity”. I also know some lesbians who could do the same thing to you as some of my “effeminate” friends, which is your drop-kick your butt from a standing position clear over the far goal post. But, since they might be “emotionally and socially dependent on women”, will their butchness allow you to give them a pass, so to speak, since they are “masculine” (by your definition anyway)?

    In the end, it’s all about acceptance. And truth. And the beloved pastor in the video above is giving it and preaching it, in heavy doses of refreshing frankness. We shall need more pastors like him to get through the next several months.

    With that, permit me to add my own AMEN! to the good pastor’s very righteous, right-on preachin.

  95. Sarm says

    What’s this? A Christian actually telling it like it is instead of being blinded by delusion? This is new.

    This lucid moment probably won’t last long, considering his religion, but if it does, perhaps only this one Christian isn’t a total mockery of humanity.

  96. FunMe says

    WOW! Simply wow!

    That is so beautiful. Love how he says that President Obama is President of the United States NOT the pastor of the United States.

    My sister attended a black Baptist church. She is going to love this like I do!

  97. Dax says

    It’s not that I disagree with the pastors comments, I just wish he hadn’t said anything at all.

  98. CHEVYTEXAS says

    I’m proud to say he’s a credit to Dallas. And, he’s not the only major black pastor here with that perspective. Rickie Rush, Dr. Zan Holmed and others have pressed their large affluent congregations (our bankers, teachers, political leaders) to be rational and engage, not just with gayness or marriage but AIDS education and mythbusting.
    You can see the dismay he finds in the hypocrisy of his flock, knowing as he must the large down-low membership in his and neighboring congregations. He will retain his pastorate and should recieve vocal support for his courage.

  99. says

    We need more pastors like this, congregations in minority communities need to be confronted about their blatant hypocrisy.

    Posted by: NY2.0 | Jun 8, 2012 11:51:15 AM

    Minority Communities???? Maybe you should go see those 2 WHITE PASTORS in North Carolina you know the ones who wants to put us all in a fence and electrocute us, and the other one who says Gay teens should be punched in the face, and the one who teaches the baby to sing “No homos in Heaven”
    Faggot get real! The White preachers need to hear this also…

    ——————–ALSO——————–

    @ ELG/ELWIN — you can hear it almost every week at my church, as well as must UU and UCC congregations.

    Posted by: MikeMick | Jun 8, 2012 12:43:54 PM

    Well MikeMick what about those Whiote from The Southern Baptist, Catholic church and hateful places do they here it??? Maybe that is what he meant? But you knew that. Stop tryingn to shield white homophobic preachers it says more you than it does them.

  100. CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON says

    SO, Towleroad – YOU SEARCHED “HIGH-AND-LOW” FOR O-N-E NEGRO PREACHER WHO SUPPORTS YOUR CAUSE. I WONDER “WHO” IS SLEEPING ON THE OTHER SIDE OF Frederick D. Haynes III’s BED? – MAYBE, SOMEONE WHO DOES NOT NEED A BRA?

    CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

  101. Grayghost says

    The Holy Spirit comes home! All people are his people! People created by SCOTUS’s destroys democracy and chills the soul.

    Thank you for the Gospel of Christ!

  102. michael Shickel says

    Finally a preacher with some balls! To speak how he feels on his”OWN” opinion,not what others want him to say,Good on you!

  103. michael Shickel says

    Finally a preacher with some balls! To speak how he feels on his”OWN” opinion,not what others want him to say,Good on you!

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  107. louise says

    Our young babies Growing up will truly be CONFUSED with this MESS They will say Am I white? Am I black? Am I a Boy? Or A girl ?. DoI suspose to date or marry a Boy Or A girl ?. Oh wait a minute they will say having a mate that’s created like me . YUKS that’s embrassing , that stinks . Either you are black or you are white , You was created by God a boy or a girl . why try change what God has created. Lord help these confused people.

  108. Will says

    I think I missed something…at what point (time) in the video do people see women shouting “disapproval” at him or were the comments about women shouting disapproval at some other event? Just checking because, as a former charismatic churcher…I hear affirmation, agreement and encouragement from the congregation in this video…some churches have a more vocal personality than others and it might be misunderstood as “opposition” if I am missing something let me know.

  109. val says

    Romans 1:26-27. I don’t know about you, but I believe in God’s Word, and God’s Word is against homosexuality. It would be nice to actually be supportive of God in church instead of supporting what He calls sin.

  110. Professor McKellar says

    Please stand corrected about the position of people standing. In the African-American church, we have a call and response tradition of saying “Amen” or standing when we agree with our ministers. The yelling and clamoring is not about disagreement, but agreement. It may be different from what you have experienced, but that is a tradition. The women were standing and waving their hands to encourage him to deliver the message he had prepared. When a person disagrees with a minister they may have a stone-faced look, leave, or call a personal meeting to respectfully share a different opinion. We have great respect for our religious leaders as father figures and leaders of the spiritual flock. I hope this helps in your interpretation. Please visit a Black church for yourself.

  111. Professor McKellar says

    Please stand corrected about the position of people standing. In the African-American church, we have a call and response tradition of saying “Amen” or standing when we agree with our ministers. The yelling and clamoring is not about disagreement, but agreement. It may be different from what you have experienced, but that is a tradition. The women were standing and waving their hands to encourage him to deliver the message he had prepared. When a person disagrees with a minister they may have a stone-faced look, leave, or call a personal meeting to respectfully share a different opinion. We have great respect for our religious leaders as father figures and leaders of the spiritual flock. I hope this helps in your interpretation. Please visit a Black church for yourself.

  112. KnowTheWord says

    What Bible do you read? You don’t know what the Bible says or do you simply prefer not to teach what God said. Jesus spoke about what God the Father created – the union of a man and a woman. Marriage is Biblical and created by God. No man including you, the President of the US or the Supreme Court has the right to change what God established.

    You like so many other “so called preachers” represent the delivery of false messages. Jesus warned us about you, Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

    You teach the doctrine of men not of God.

    Matthew 19:3 – 19:5 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

    Matthew 24:24
    For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

  113. Antoine Mason says

    I do not agree with his stance on homosexuality. God and Christ is against it:

    Romans 1:26-28
    Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
    From Idolatry to Depravity

    26 This is why God delivered them over to degrading passions. For even their females exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.
    27 The males in the same way also left natural relations with females and were inflamed in their lust for one another. Males committed shameless acts with males and received in their own persons the appropriate penalty of their error.

    28 And because they did not think it worthwhile to acknowledge God, God delivered them over to a worthless mind to do what is morally wrong.