Comments

  1. topher says

    I know Madonna is a gay icon and everything, but I do not remember her making speeches like these about “jews, christians, blacks, whites, gay, straight” in a long time. I know, I know, like a prayer, gay icon, she’s done stuff — but all I heard now was lady gaga talking!

  2. Brian NYC says

    @Topher Madonna has been speaking out about tolerance/peace for a while now…long before Lady Gaga rose to prominence.

  3. topher says

    @Brian: Like I said, I know she’s done stuff. But somehow all I can remember now is her making that bitchy comment about the hydrangeas some fan/reporter gave her.

  4. David says

    What a hag.

    “I’m Madonna look at me, look at me: I learned to play guitar (awkwardly and terribly and I look like a complete idiot when I play it but still)!!! I’m twirling a baton!! I ripped off “Respect Yourself” by The Staples Singers and then called a younger artist “reductive” when she ripped off my rip off! Of course, the younger artist used her song to advance gay and trans rights whereas I stayed in the grand tradition started by my fellow “Icon” Elvis: I stole a song from black people then re-branded it as “Blond Ambition” (whiteness sells!) and then surrounded myself onstage with black and Latino backup dancers to further highlight my Whiteness which makes me transgressive, progressive and cutting edge like all the other white thieves who came before me. Oh yeah, I stole Vogue’ing from poor black queens from Harlem too!

  5. Alex N says

    @David: Just ewww. What a horrid person you make yourself out to be. Are you really that miserable?

  6. Jude says

    Madonna has been speaking out about tolerance since the beginning of her career. Tolerance, coming together and respecting one another… those are the most common themes in her entire back catalogue.

  7. AERES says

    So the message is (in part) rise above ego, but is accompanied with a “She’s not me” slam on Gaga?

  8. Tadpolicus Wex says

    David, unlike Alex I don’t think you’re miserable at all – I think you’re accurate. Madonna’s narcissism has always overshadowed what meager support she might feel for our community. In regards to the Madonna v Gaga crowd…here are three indisputable facts to clearly contrast the artists:
    1. Gaga is a better vocalist, period.
    2. Gaga’s a real musician with piano and strings, not a three chord wonder like Vadge.
    3. Despite being at the dawn of her ascendance – Gaga has given a tremendous amount of her own personal wealth and time to LGBT causes which tower over Madame Vadge.
    Bonus, the Hitler dealio is just revolting and self aggrandizing even for Vadge’s own co-opted cult of personality,

  9. Tim says

    Speaking of ripping off…..seriously, is Kazaky getting ANY credit for the clothing and exact dance routine for GGW? It’s their LOVE video to a T!!

  10. Inside says

    Nazi/Hitler imagery in Israel. (Nazi/Hitler imagery in anywhere…) Is she that oblivious?

  11. Steven says

    At an average ticket price of well over $500 each I think I’ll wait for the inevitable HBO special or DVD…..besides I can see a 60 year old person lipsync Madonna songs at my local gay bar for FAR less cash…..

  12. Arrant says

    @ David. Exactly. When I committed the cardinal sin as a gay man of saying I’ve never cared for Vadge one of my friends was horrified “But you have to respect her for what she has accomplished!” I replied I don’t have to respect anyone who hasn’t earned it. The stage was set for a transgressive, sexually uninhibited female pop star in the early 80’s and Vadge filled the bill–but if she hadn’t hogged that particular spotlight someone else certainly would have come along to shine in it. Wouldn’t it have been nice if it had been someone like Gaga with reserves of talent and compassion to offer instead of simply bland ambition and a vampiric ego?

  13. Mike says

    Boys, please don’t force Madonna’s super fanboy Matthew Rettenmund to come over here and lecture us all about not looking like kids by bickering about Madonna v Gaga.

  14. dc says

    it’s pathetic for people to always have to mention her age. I assume that most of these comments are from gays who on a daily basis deal with homophobia. Why be ageist? You will be 53 someday and I bet you’d like to be as fit and successful as Madonna is. Long live the queen.

  15. Graphicjack says

    So shocked to see bitchy, ageist, sexist comments about Madonna here. Quelle surprise! And the monsters are in full hate mode as well.. Again, no shocker. As for Madonna’s track record supporting us, let’s remember that out fight then was for survival… From Regean and extreme fundamentalist right wing people like Jesse Helms… And of course from AIDS. I can’t recall ANYONE in the 80s with as much power as Madonna who was speaking out, raising money and showing respect and tolerance as she was at that time (Liz Taylor and Elton John were great, but already past their prime with not as much to lose). Yes, Gaga has done lots and although I’m not a big fan of hers, I give her due credit and thank and respect her for what she does… But she’s doing it at a time when we are already much more accepted in society, and our big struggles are gay marriage (which is hardly as life threatening as AIDS) and bullying… Which of course is a very important issue. The fact remains is that it is nowhere as risky or challenging for Gaga to champion gays now as when Madonna did in the 80s. Why is that? Probably in part thanks to Madonna. I wish these annoying little monsters would recognize that. Don’t like her, her music? Think she’s too old? I don’t care less about that or your own prejudices or hang ups. What burns my ass is people are now saying, “oh, she really didn’t do that much.” that’s just being ungrateful and I really get fed up with how privileged that makes you all seem. Be thankful to everyone who has walked with us and carried our torch. I know I am.

  16. truthiness says

    Madonna rules woo hoo!

    Haters go on and hate.

    I choose love.

    I am the future.

  17. B-rod says

    Any good Nazi worth their salt would know immediately that the swastika is backwards. Oh Madge.

  18. topher says

    Lol, it’s like that Simpsons episode: In a thousand years, religious wars will be fought over who is the real goddess: Madonna or Germanotta.

  19. GraphicJack says

    @B-Rod… I doubt that’s an accident. And while it’s obvious with the moustache she’s referencing Hitler, the swastika is also a symbol in Hindi and Bhuddist cultures as “auspiciousness”. In China, it was a smybol of eternity. The Nazi swastika was “right-facing”, the other symbols could be either “left-facing” as this one is, or “right-facing’. With her message of world peace, which she also referenced at the Super Bowl and has always talked about acceptance and tolerance, it’s pretty clear she was using the ancient Eastern symbol. Nothing Madonna does is accidental… I’m sure this was well thought out as a way to shock, but also educate.

  20. C.J. says

    I agree with David and Tadpolicus Wex – Madonna’s one trick pony show is boring. She rang in the performance the last time I saw her and that was it for me. Really, you want me to pay $700 a ticket so I can watch her try and act like she is 21 again. Nope. She needs to stop acting like she invented pop music. There were artists before her and there will be MUCH more talented artists after her. Her constant strain to reinvent herself is another term for her saying “I am trying to act much younger than I am” –

    I am not trying to preach the song of Lady Gaga, but I will give it to her that she vocally and financially supports the LGBT community in a huge way. Madonna makes her speeches at concerts, but what has she actually done?

  21. Gregoire says

    The sets and costumes look spectacular. But I do have to wonder — when you start appropriating Adolf Hitler, have you run out of ideas?

  22. Dan says

    Do we need to watch yet another remix of Express Yourself? Or see Madonna prostrate herself yet again in front of a cross? I’m a huge fan of old Madonna. These warmed-up leftovers just make me feel sad. I wish she’d focus on her music, not concerts or perfume.

  23. inor says

    Being so deep into the Kabbalah, she must understand the Jewish mentality much better than us mere mortals.

  24. UFFDA says

    Who else in the world can do this?, go to utterly dreadful nations (though not necesssarily Israel) and other parts of the world (or scheduled to, like Russia) and outrage their ridiculous mores and pretentious forms of righteousness, than these rather magnificent, usually American, women performers such as Madonna and Gaga with messages of freedom and equality? Squabbling over competitiveness and age mean absolutely nothing. What they do for women, gay people and the underpriviledged everywhere is both joyful and heroic. Does anybody get the picture?

  25. Tim says

    GraphicJack and Uffda: You’ve got it so right. We forget (and for some weren’t born yet) that she shocked our societies in the 80’s and brought about change that we take for granted these days. Doing these things in cities around the world where cultures need advancing is still provocative and beneficial to the people living there. I’d happily take Gaga and Madonna performing in abundance – allies are always welcome.

    True, Madonna was more daring when she was speaking out decades ago, but they both serve a purpose at large today. We may find the shows pedantic and derivative in our (more) comfortable cities today, but thankfully we have the luxury of ambivalence that comes in no small part from these women being on our side.

  26. Jacques says

    Call me ageist if you want, but I’m older than Madge. It kind of creeps me out to watch her these days, much like seeing a fifty-something bald guy with his cap on backwards. I mean what’s wrong with admitting your age? It doesn’t mean you can’t be in shape and energetic.

    Growing old gracefully is the least ageist thing you can do, and it’s way more sexy than pretending to be young when you are not. Case in point: Eric Clapton vs. Mick Jagger.

  27. MichaelJ says

    I have no problem with Madonna’s age and her acting or dressing younger (hey, I do it all the time). But I agree with Tadpolicus: Madonna’s narcissism and, I would add, enduring demand for our attention do seem to overshadow everything she says and does. This is why I have never liked or respected her, as much as I’ve enjoyed dancing to her old hits from time to time. The spectacle she creates for her videos, shows and herself has never been brilliant and now has become tiresome, as far as I’m concerned — a sound and fury signifying nothing.

  28. Precious says

    “What has Madonna actually done?” ARE YOU INSANE? The reason why someone like Gaga is able to so easily publicly support gay causes without hurting her career is because someone like Madonna came before her.

    In 1987, at the height of AIDS hysteria, Madonna became the first major music star to donate 100% of proceeds from a concert to AIDS charities. She made personal appearances at benefits for AMFAR and APLA bringing much needed attention to their events. She included HIV/AIDS prevention information in the liner notes of her huge hit album ‘Like A Prayer’ and appeared in an AIDS PSA when most acts with similar international acclaim would never even want to be associated with such a thing. She gave a 2 part candid interview to The Advocate in 1991 — a decade before it became ‘ok’ to promote yourself so openly to the gay community. Next to Liz Taylor, she is probably the biggest star in the world to have been SO outspoken about HIV/AIDS compassion & charities. She included a full-on gay kiss between 2 of her male dancers in ‘Truth Or Dare’ — for many of us, the first time we had EVER seen such a thing onscreen. Did she “steal” vogueing or did she help shine an enormous light on a previously little heard from subculture?

    Yes, during the years she was married, she had less visibility in many of these areas, but that’s what happens when people settle down. She bristles at the suggestion she no longer acknowledges or cares about such a huge part of her fanbase.

    The whole comparison between her and any other artist is ludicrous. There’s room for everyone. If you don’t like her music, don’t listen to it. If you don’t like her shows or they’re too expensive for you, don’t go.

    As for the ageist thing, should she just roll over and die because she’s hit a specific age? Should she give up doing what she’s clearly best at just ’cause YOU don’t like it?

    WAKE UP FOOLS.

  29. Graphicjack says

    Thanks, Precious! I appreciate what you’re saying.

    @david quite a few comments ago, you compared Madonna sampling a bit of Respect Yourself to Gaga’s rip off sampling of Express Yourself in Born This Way, and to Elvis ripping off hits like Hounddog and such from black Blues artists.

    1. Elvis actually sang the EXACT same songs as the black artists, just made it a bit more “white” to go down better to white audiences. That’s a COMPLETE rip off, and M’s and G’s rip offs aren’t anything near that extreme. Nice try.

    2. Madonna does sing the words Express Yourself in a similar way to the words Respect Yourself in the Staples Singers song… Thats about all I hear that’s similar to the two songs, and I’ve listened to both songs for years.

    3. Come on – Born This Way has MANY similarities to Express Yourself.. The spoken word intro, the sound of both the stanzas and the chorus… The words are different but the song is practically the same.

    In closing, the biggest rip off in these comparisons you made are 1 Elvis, 2 Gaga and 3 Madonna. It’s redonk to compre Madonna to Elvis in this case… Not even close.

  30. KillBilly says

    Lady Xerox might be a better singer but she’s a fraud and has one of the most hateful and spiteful fanbase ever! Team Madonna all the way!!!

  31. Molc says

    Gaga certainly isn’t Madonna (and for that she’ll be eternally grateful). Gaga is a vastly superior “musical” talent, and Madonna’s immaturity, childishness and jealousy shines like a beacon. Grow up woman-get outside your ego/narcissism bubble for a day or two at least. Besides when has Madonna ever done a gay anthem? Oh yeah-autotuning ‘Born This Way’.

  32. Michael in Toronto says

    You know, she can do whatever the hell she wants, and the show is probably fun when you’re there, but when she starts talking about world peace I just have to laugh. C’mon, Madonna, you care about nothing but yourself — you know it, we know it, so can the fake compassion.

  33. Paulie says

    @MOLC, Express Yourself and Vogue are two of Madonna’s gay anthems. What Gaga and her Little Ghouls don’t seem to understand is that gay anthems aren’t created, they’re appropriated. Gaga can shove Born This Way down our throats but it doesn’t mean we have to swallow it! WE decided what is a gay anthem, not Gaga and her Little Ghouls.

  34. Not a good tour says

    This tour is awful. She ruins all of her old songs by “re-inventing” them. Just listen to the “re-invented” version of Like a Virgin. Terrible!

    Also, why does she keep doing the faux-lesbian stuff? Why would she think her mostly gay male audience would give a damn or would be turned on by that? Stupid.

  35. Paul R says

    How childish. You people are really debating whether Madonna or Gaga is superior? It’s pop music. You can like both of them, or one, or neither. But your arguments for or against sound like they come from children.

  36. Religion=Poop says

    That whole “Express Yourself/Born This Way” followed by “Shes Not Me” was extremely tacky. I expect my Madonna to take the high road. Childish…shes an icon and doesnt need to resort to this. The concert footage looks cool to me though–she always puts on a good show (IMO).

  37. V-8 says

    I thought the new rendition of Like a Virgin was beautiful, saw a whole video elsewhere… the background music is from the soundtrack of her movie, which is not as bad as one may expect (and the musical score is gorgeous there too)

  38. Will says

    I’ve never been a huge fan, tho I do have a few of M’s songs on my iPod. I give her full props for what she’s done, tho I honestly think she’s gotten more from gays than given to us. This whole Gaga thing has turned me off in a big way. Madonna should show some class and humility and say that if there are any similarities she’s genuinely flattered, all good art derives from something that came before it, intentionally or not. Instead, Madonna takes the low road and is coming across as appearing, well threatened. It makes me realize I’m exhausted by her fake accents and her smirky condescension. Now she seems to be seeking the next fad to cling to – electronica, etc. or else rehashing topics she addressed a long, long time ago. It reminds me of when I was young, and Ethel Merman was on Johnny Carson singing disco versions of her old songs cause “that’s what the young people are into nowadays.”

  39. Will says

    I’ve never been a huge fan, tho I do have a few of M’s songs on my iPod. I give her full props for what she’s done, tho I honestly think she’s gotten more from gays than given to us. This whole Gaga thing has turned me off in a big way. Madonna should show some class and humility and say that if there are any similarities she’s genuinely flattered, all good art derives from something that came before it, intentionally or not. Instead, Madonna takes the low road and is coming across as appearing, well threatened. It makes me realize I’m exhausted by her fake accents and her smirky condescension. Now she seems to be seeking the next fad to cling to – electronica, etc. or else rehashing topics she addressed a long, long time ago. It reminds me of when I was young, and Ethel Merman was on Johnny Carson singing disco versions of her old songs cause “that’s what the young people are into nowadays.”

  40. GraphicJack says

    @MOLC – Madonna actually wrote a “gay anthem” song on her Erotica album called “In This Life”. It was explicitly about two gay male friends she lost to AIDS. She sang it live at the Girlie Show, and made an empassioned speech to the audience about it. This was in 1992. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sBOxrsCmPo)

    It’s not a dance song, it’s a ballad, but it’s far more moving than Born This Way, which lyrics, let’s face it, are pretty trite… “Chola or Orient made”? WTF?

    I give Gaga credit for trying to reach out and be supportive, but again, she’s following a trail blazed by Madonna. Let’s stop pretending Gaga’s original or that she’s the first diva to do this that or the other thing, because she’s not. Talented, sure, but not original.

    And Gaga is just as “desperate for attention” and “fake controvesial” as Madonna… maybe even more so. At least Madonna waited for a new album to re-invent herself… Gaga does this practically weekly. It’s why many of us are sick of her. She tries WAY too hard… I liked her when her first album came out, but after then, zzzz…. one or two songs are good, but I’m not a fan of her whole career.

  41. Bob says

    I love that she continually relies on Catholic imagery in a totally disrespectful way. I wonder if she’d mind if I wore a kaballahdingdong string up my ass as a thong. She’s vile and talent free, no matter how much she busies her body with cartwheels and flips.

  42. Matt Lindsay says

    These Gaga vs. Madonna debates are futile because nobody really is going to win them. Been into Madonna since I was a small kid in the 90’s but since Ray Of Light her work leaves me cold. Her golden period for me goes from the debut to Justify My Love. There’s a few gems after , mainly Take A Bow & Frozen but of late it all seems tired. She’s a big, tough woman , she can take a little criticism.
    I really cannot stand the way some assume that if you see shortcomings in madonna’s output you are ‘bitter’ and unhappy. It’s a pretty revolting criticism to level at someone unless they are being cruel. And to be honest Madonna is coming off as unbelievably mean-spirited toward Gaga- As someone rightly pointed out, Madonna has ‘appropriated other people’s work throughout her career, from the Staples singers, Marilyn , David Bowie, Debbie Harry. All part of pop’s creative/commercial licence. It seems a bit rich her taking such offense at Gaga .Madonna was not conceived in a vacuum. ‘She’s not me?’ Indeed, Lady can play piano and maybe that’s why Madonna feels a little more threatened by Gaga than she is Spears et al.
    Credit where credit’s due – one of the most determined tenacious , disciplined performers in showbusiness and a true pioneer back in the day. But the material is getting thin, the stageshow is a laboured retread (garish catholic iconography tinged with raunchy iconoclasm?Have we not been here a million times before? The music is non-committal and prosaic. There’s no destination in her song structures, no nuance in her phrasing anymore. Songs from way back when are more mature (compare Live To Tell & Like A prayer to these roided out,porno dancefloor nursery rhymes. Madonna needs a new angle and bashing the Gaga ain’t it. As for ageism – I don’t see Madonna hanging out with many of her peers these days, who’s really got a problem with it? She hasn’t developed with her audience and that seems sad because in 1998 that seemed exactly what she was going to do. Just my opinion, let’s not get personal or nasty about this – there are bigger isssues.

  43. Tadpolicus Wex says

    WE decided what is a gay anthem, not Gaga and her Little Ghouls.
    Posted by: Paulie | Jun 1, 2012 5:48:08 PM

    Little Ghoul is totally going to be my new term of endearment go to. It’s so Morticia! Thank you Paulie!

    I think everybody would be a lot happier if they stopped listening to Vadge or Gaga and embraced Goldfrapp, Roisin Murphy or Jonna Lee. Each of these women are vastly more creative.

  44. Chris says

    @c.j. “what has she actually done?”

    How incredibly clueless can you be? Take 30 seconds and google Madonna’s history with the gay community and AIDS activism.

    Love her or hate her, that’s your business. But claiming she has done nothing is just a blatant mistruth. Just because it Hasn’t happened in the last ten minutes doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

    I hesitate to call event that have occurred in the last 25 years as history, but learn just a little bit of the history of your own community and may e you wont look so ignorant.

  45. MaddM@ says

    Oy…. All the bitter queens coming out in droves.

    Please tell us the amazing musicians that you enjoy more. Also please reiterate the same tired talking points about Madonna being old, her being played out, etc. she will continue to sell out concerts internationally despite all the squawking from our present vanguards of culture.

  46. Tommy says

    I’m a Gaga fan and I’m not at all offended by the mash up of Express Yourself and Born this Way. It seems all done in good fun with a sense of humor. I don’t find it at all mean spirited or bitchy as some people seem to.
    I also think it’s silly when people set Gaga and Madonna against more alternative singers like Roisin Murphy. They’re just two different things. I like pop artists like Madonna and Gaga, but I also like more alternative stuff. You can like both. ( I did wonder when the poster put Goldfrapp in the alternative group though. Their music is very pop/disco and not that far away from Madonna and Gaga. I like them but they’re not that alternative.

  47. Natamaxxx says

    @GRAPHICJACK – thank you for telling it like it is! For a (then) teenage closet queer like myself, Madonna speaking publicly about tolerance and acceptance towards gays was a HUGE deal! At the sheer height of her career, she had everything to lose, and most other high profile entertainers of the day wouldn’t touch the subject with a ten foot pole! She didnt NEED to do it, she just knew that it was the right thing to do and risked a great deal doing so.

    Sadly, most of Gaga’s fanbase is simply too young to be aware of how different it was to be gay in the US before they were born. Even sadder still is how both entertainers have been pigeonholed into this horrendously overhyped, All About Eve – esque feud that probably doesnt even really exist! As a fan of BOTH of them, I sincerely hope they are somehow behind it all, knowing full well that fanning the flames keeps them both on peoples lips. Let the drama queen fans bicker! There is room in my ipod for both :-)

  48. Perkin Warbeck says

    …meanwhile, back at the ranch…. check out Mylène Farmer “Libertine” 2009 Tour… seems Monsieur Gautier is getting a lot of bang for his buck out of the black/white corporate look…

  49. bALAN says

    altho Madonna would be better off “pulling a Garbo” she insists on perpetuation of her character. She was never genius, but really… just admire that this spunky midge was able to harness worldwide success and fame before the advantages of Internet, Facebook, blogs, Twitter, and digital swiping.
    She stood up for us wayback when it was most needed… so give the ol’ girl some credit… and “Respect Yourself” by doing so.