Minnesota Church Closes Over Gay Rights Row
The Grace Community United Church of Christ in St. Paul, MN, is confirmed rumors that it's looking for new digs after a majority of the congregation left over the pastor's support for equality.
From the Star-Tribune:
A St. Paul church faced with closing after most of the congregation left over the pastor's support of gay marriage said Friday it's leaving its worship space and will look for a new church home.
Grace Community United Church of Christ, the only UCC church in Minnesota with a predominantly black congregation, declined to extend its Saturday deadline to raise about $200,000 to pay off a high-interest loan and legal fees, said church pastor the Rev. Oliver White (pictured).
After days of tense negotiating this week between the church and the investor holding the loan, Grace leadership decided it did not want to keep paying to stay in the beige stucco building on the east side of St. Paul.
Rev. White says that he has received about $55,000 in donations and hopes to buy a new church that will welcome all people. He also says that this experience, though trying, only reinvigorated his faith.
"I'm overwhelmed with a lot of belief in the power of humankind," he told the paper. "It's been an amazing display of human kindness. There will be sadness [when the congregation leaves]. But it's still a building. We are the church. We don't have to be in that building to be Grace Community Church."
While it is ideal the two communities come together, it's also imperative the black community would be willing to have this conversation regarding homophobia, and recognize their resistance.
I personally have done outreach both on my own and with my closest friends to black churches and leaders this past spring. I'm half greek and half Puerto Rican. It wasn't effective. No matter my tone, our approach, our eagerness and sincerity. Our willingess to first hear their concerns, help their Church, and even do a donation drive (which we did in a span of 3 mweeks) we were ultimately shut out by the numerous churches we went to, and told in each case that the members (predominantly black) were not comfortable to talk about this issue nor our story.
I disagree with the notion that LGBT being observant or even reactionary to what we witness from a segment of the black population is us being racist. That's both short sighted, and uncaring to the realities LGBT face. I see that word used all too flippant. Of course there is white homophobia, but there's a certain sting to the unwillingness of SOME in the black community to not recognize the flaw in prejudice. Pointing that out, expressing our frustration and recognizing a double standard is not racism...it's human nature. It would be completely pretencious to request the LGBT community pretend there isn't a wave of homophobia within the African American community, heightened by the role of the church, cultural elements and other factors. It's explored in hundreds of links on the net where black folks themselves recognize it, and many proudly endorse it. It's not just the Bible, as many people of all backgrounds can seperate their loyalty to the Bible from their civility for freedoms, it's a cultural overlap in the community. To tell people not to see what they see is to request they be ignorant. That resolves nothing and essentially enhances said homophobia.
We address Mormon homophobia consistently in our community ( a Church that essentially boasts an entirely white population) we tackle Islamic homophobia with middle easterners with LGBT organizations in London, to Dubai. We tackle Republican homophobia, to also eliminating youth homophobia. Concrete understanding of a specific demographics tone of homophobia, recognizing that and resolving it is key. That specificity is key. And I shudder to think of the day we become so politically correct as a community that our unwillingness to not make anyone uncomfortable becomes the catalyst to our own demise.
Posted by: Kevin Mendoza | Jun 30, 2012 2:54:10 AM
@ Kevin Mendoza--- BRILLIANT! Absolutely brilliant. Thank you for saying that.
Posted by: USC Trojan Fan | Jun 30, 2012 2:57:22 AM
Thank you Kevin Mendoza for wording it better than I ever could have.
Posted by: lazerlightbeams | Jun 30, 2012 2:59:14 AM
First of all, I've never met a gay man or lesbian woman who seemed racist, except on reality TV shows. So these idiots who post race baiting comments here might as well be some kind of right-wing black-ops trolls for all I know.
All this proves is that >95% of so-called American "Christians" - black, white or indifferent - just go to church to hear what they want to hear. They are no more real Christians that I am a real Zoroastrian, member of the Knights of the Roundtable, instructor at Hogwarts, Chef at Maxims, or Navy Seal. If they were? Well, let's see: women wouldn't speak in church, they would in public life wear veils and at the very least no makeup, they would tithe most of their money beyond what is required to live to the poor or un-churched, not 10% of it to the bureaucratic hierarchy of their churches. (many mega-church pastors live in huge McMansions and draw multi-six-figure incomes) I mean, it's a big joke, folks. The Amish are probably the closest to being what early Christians were like, though I think they go a little too far with the whole eschewing technology thing. And what percentage are they of "Christians": 0.05% at most.
This pastor has tried to be courageous, and I respect him for it...but really courageous would be saying "I've read the Bible backwards and forwards 100 times in my life, I've studied theology for four years at seminary...and I've come to the conclusion it's all a load of baloney."
Posted by: St. Theresa of Avila | Jun 30, 2012 5:06:02 AM
Hang tight pastor Troy Perry started with 12 people
Posted by: Richard Golden | Jun 30, 2012 5:29:41 AM
My theory on what Kevin is characterizing: political correctness be damned...because I'm not. The black community has been in some form of a crisis since the end of slavery. (which was of course, its own crisis and tragedy) You had a group of people who were flung from slavery into the lowest rung of society, and held back by hideously institutionalized racism and Jim Crow laws. As recently as the late 1990s, I could not believe watching the local network affiliates in Baton Rouge, and noticing that they had almost no black reporters in a state with such a significant black population. No Maureen Bunyan down there! And look at vitriol that fuels the so-called "tea party movement" and tell me it's not related to the President's race. "Liar" would never have been shouted by a southern congressman at a white president. But I digress..over a century of this had complex socio-economic consequences that reverberate to this day. The notorious 1965 Moynihan report, reviled though it was in its day, was, let us not forget, the product of a "well meaning liberal". Black Churches necessarily and inevitably filled the void in leadership within the black community that was the byproduct of this long racial injustice, and carried with them all the attendant junk you'd expect them to. Therefore they have more a bully pulpit (no pun intended) and position of power than organized Christianity does in within whatever passes for mainstream white culture. Things like this take a long time to change course...but we are slowly getting there. The willingness of national black leadership to go out on a limb and frankly start sawing the wrong side it...the NAACP, Al Sharpton, I daresay Obama...by supporting gay marriage is highly encouraging. Whether it's going to be enough of a game changer in time for, say, the Maryland marriage vote in November though, seems a bit doubtful.
Posted by: St. Theresa of Avila | Jun 30, 2012 5:43:48 AM
Welcome to Trollroad.com
This site does a great job...but the half of those who post comments...should go back to writing on bathroom walls.
Posted by: QJ201 | Jun 30, 2012 7:16:01 AM
There needs to be congruence between a pastor and his congregation on basic matters of faith. If most of the congregation believed marriage equality to be un-Christian then leaving is exactly what they should have done. Those people who left aren't giving up Christianity - they'll find another church. This pastor may have a smaller congregation, but it will now agree on doctrine.
People leaving churches due to theological issues happens all the time. No one's rights have been violated. I feel for the pastor himself, .... but this is life. To all the gays here I'll ask: would you WANT to be in a church with people who you'll resent because they don't support SSM?
Not trying to be insensitive here, just realistic. Anyone who knows Christian theology would have told you that Christians en masse were not going to suddently accept a pro-gay marriage pastor.
Posted by: Mary | Jun 30, 2012 8:05:39 AM
Frankly I think it's arrogant to tell the gay community to not have discourse about homophobia in the black community, especially black church when they themselves admit to it. It's not exactly a secret, and to keep it secretive or make it a taboo is ridiculous. What is more ridiculous is for gay people's lives being played with, and them having to be censored about talking about different types of homophobes and confronting the hypocrisy in minority homophobes in particular.
Posted by: Broward | Jun 30, 2012 8:07:51 AM
It's interesting because when the black community consistently makes references to our rights not being civil rights, to us CHOOSING how we are, to us living in sin AND them working against our rights: they can't collectively be called homophobic for that.
Now if gays notice the above and so much as mention it, they can and will be collectively called racist for that.
It's that double standard that creates tension in our community. The black community telling us who we are, demanding we respect who they are and claiming homophobia is not nearly as bad as racism. Guess what? You'll get a reaction! I cringe thinking about an oppressed community that wouldn't react to that.
Posted by: MJ | Jun 30, 2012 8:18:54 AM
One google search about African American reaction to Obama's announcement for marriage equality tells you exactly where a majority of that community stands. Look up the US Today article on the matter and scroll down to read the comments section. Of about 100 black posters, roughly 98 have very strong words against how vile gays are. Why SHOULD we ignore that? Because it will spare some people their feelings?. Yeah, our community doesn't so much enjoy being the AA punching bag. Honestly, based on what I'm reading on various gay blogs, the more we're told to pretend it's a nonissue, the more tension and frustration it creates in our community. And I am far from being a GOProud twa-t. That most gay people can't know the resent we face by African Americans is insulting to our observation skills.
Posted by: Red Velvet | Jun 30, 2012 8:31:29 AM
There are people still alive who knew or had family who fought in the Civil War to keep Africans in slavery in America, that was not really so long ago and it was great men and religious leaders who helped set them free. These African Americas need to get real and support freedom for the gays who are being made into slaves today by keeping them oppressed and not allowed to marry the ones they love. Some of the LGBT people had families fight to make black slaves free. It is time the African Americans who had family come out of slavery support the freedom of all LGBT people in America and Africa and stop kissing the kissing the behind of the white anti-gay Christians, some who if they had they way would still make them slaves today.
Posted by: Mike | Jun 30, 2012 10:29:21 AM
as a white gay american - I find this diappointing...shame there wasn't some kind of donation to Help keep his church open...them Man Tried to do the Right thing...and look where it gottem'...I hope it doesn't discourage his support that all people shouldbe treated equally.
Posted by: disgusted american | Jun 30, 2012 10:40:12 AM
Whoops!!! Look at how some of these racists are showing their true colors. They are always turning homophobia into a "black people this and black people that" argument.
See, this is why I don't like to be f@cking bothered with people. It's the hypocrisy I dislike the most in people.
Posted by: Mel Smith | Jun 30, 2012 10:50:17 AM
I say the black community should be far more concerned with its overwhelming rate of illegitimate births than with equal rights for GLBT Americans. Call that racist if you want, but black Americans need to clean up their own "family values" mess before they think of imposing it on everyone else.
Posted by: Michael | Jun 30, 2012 11:08:45 AM
@Mel Smith You know what prompts attitudes and comments like yours? It is that the overwhelming homophobia in the black community is a reflection on you as a gay black man. That you and other black gay men come on this site and others and constantly attack gay white men for "racism", while at the same time doing almost nothing to try to eradicate homophobia, especially in your own community--THAT is the real hypocrisy and you are the ones that own it.
It is not by accident that new HIV infections are almost entirely concentrated among young, black men "on the down-low".....,which can be translated as living in the closet and being ashamed of who you are.
In reality, black gay men as a group are way behind men of other races in accepting and embracing their sexuality....and that is the fundamental cause of both the continuing self-destructive behavior I alluded to in the last paragraph AND the related tendency to launch angry attacks on white gays for "racism" simply for recognizing empirical reality or for any other slight provocation.
You and other black gays are really angry with yourselves, more than anything--and with good reason--that is what is really reflected in your comments.
Posted by: Rick | Jun 30, 2012 11:12:03 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeXcaRYNlSQ
For a few years now, Towleroad has been a resource that has enlightened and educated me. I saw it as a place where like-minded individuals with a common goal of ridding the world of prejudice and ignorance.
However,around for years ago; right after your country elected your last president, a dark cloud of derision began to take hold in the comment section.
What frightens me the most is the fact that the racist remarks are extremely well written and articulate. Which suggests that the authors are educated men of means.
Sadly, as we in Toronto celebrate pride and the great inroads that has happened here, as well as the rest of the country. I do believe that I can no longer view this site as a source of empowerment and pride.
I urge all of the enlightened, open-minded individuals on here to lobby for the removal of the racist comments that now plague this site. No good comes of it.
Posted by: Carletonart | Jun 30, 2012 11:25:10 AM
@Carletonart Oh, look, everybody, yet another self-righteous Canadian sitting in his lily-white country making judgments about a society he is not a part of and therefore does not understand.
Almost as good as Justin Bieber lecturing us on our immigration policy.
Posted by: Rick | Jun 30, 2012 11:48:16 AM
Rick, do you personally know me or have you met me before? I never attacked all of any group of people. Have you actually read your own ill stereotypical comments? I actually see anger in your words too. If you practice hypocrisy and are stereotyping others, I'm going after you regardless of what color you are. Believe me, I'm very famous for going after the homophobes in the black community. I'm very famous for that.
Regardless of what color you are, I dislike stereotypes and hypocrisy. My last comments are not based on attacking all white gay people. And what are you doing to attack homophobia??? Huh???
In being truthful to you, at the end of the day, I really don't give a f@ck about your assumptions and perceptions of me.
Posted by: Mel Smith | Jun 30, 2012 11:49:40 AM
@RICK Assumptions. Conscientious Black male here. My apologies to you and anyone else who did not view my comment as the positive plea for harmony as it was intended.
Posted by: Carletonart | Jun 30, 2012 12:04:02 PM
@JET Really, I didn't know that. @$$es are not for f*cking? I got a feeling that millions of people worldwide should know about this, especially those non-western countries where it is considered acceptable as a form of birth-control. I think you're wrong though. They're definitely for f*cking otherwise God wouldn't have made it so pleasurable. You should try it sometime. You'd be surprised.
Posted by: jamal49 | Jun 30, 2012 12:25:58 PM
These are fake comments people, don't get riled up about them! The same thing happened on a post yesterday, swarmed by racist comments couched in the same college-level tone, dozens of them. I am sure they are fake, in fact, two different commenters (Red velvet here, Michelle in the other post) quote the same untrue statement about googling obama support for gay marriage to see all the african american hate in the results (you won't). Andy has completely lost control of this site, and it's becoming a tool of NOM and related bigots. Sad really.
Posted by: Brian | Jun 30, 2012 1:36:35 PM
I don't personally think it is bigoted to point out the friction that African Americans have toward gays. Reporting it or observing it does not make anyone bigots. As others noted, the African American community themselves acknowledge there is a "don't ask don't tell" mentality on the issue because, for the most part, they don't support it. They themselves say that. Read up on it. I think the tone is: LGBT are tired of a muzzle being placed on us when we want to speak about this elephant in the room. Our rights and respect mean a great deal to us. To stiffle that because of political correctness is wrong.
Dialogue does not equate disrespect. I have never written disrespectful words on here and never will
Posted by: Concord | Jun 30, 2012 2:39:01 PM
African Americans are a community that constantly preach about their civil rights, and their equal and their unfair treatment, so of course the irony can't be ignored that they would step in line to actively not allow another disenfranchised group the same shot at their rights, equality and fair treatment. That's to be expected. You may not agree with everything individuals do, but you honor the decleration of independence and constitution enough so to grant them their freedoms. Just as I may not respect or agree at all with the black churches teachings, I'd never stop their freedom to have their rights to do what they do in church, and have religious freedoms. The feeling is not mutual and that IS a point of intrigue and hypocrisy.
Posted by: LadyJane | Jun 30, 2012 2:43:38 PM
This guy sounds like a REAL Christian to me. This is how all so-called Christians should behave. What a great guy !
The people who left the congregation are obviously not real Christians and, like so many of these people who claim to be Christians, they have clearly never read the Bible.
The problem with organized religion is that it mainly attracts people with a low IQ or who are mentally weak. This means they believe anything the media tells them. The US media is owned mainly by rich Republicans so they have been using their media empires to brainwash these low IQ individuals with Republican Party policies disguised as Christianity.
Posted by: Icebloo | Jun 30, 2012 3:03:15 PM