1. Pete N SFO says

    It’s already been established by the SCOTUS that the BSA is allowed to discriminate, so what’s the problem?

    Obviously, they understand that even if they are ‘right’ they’ve gotten it wrong & will soon be another untouchable relic of discrimination.

    And besides, we can’t ever know for certain if the leak was an accident or a calculated trial balloon.

  2. Nick says

    Never forget the profound influence the LDS have on the BSA. Keep that in mind if you think they are going to acquiesce; there are many articles written about this.

  3. says

    So “the gays” ar the new bullies.

    It’s OK for the Popish church to call us inherently disordered, OK not to recognise our marriages which we had in the Netherlands, OK to impose DADT for years, OK to discriminate against us in the workplace, OK to instill fear in NFL players so that they are afraid to come out, ………..but we are the bullies ?

    This clown is a disgrace to his community and his history.
    He has learned nothing; he is just another social climbing wanna-be.

  4. DannyEastVillage says

    the medical, psychiatric and social science communities and even the military have shown this to be a non-issue – so what the devil is wrong with the BSA?

    To borrow a phrase, I’d say they’re inherently disordered.

  5. Reasonability says

    First of all, commentors, more than one party to a disagreement can be a bully. Have gays been bullied? Yes. Do gays bully? Yes. Bully doesn’t mean “espouse a position different than mine.”

    Second, the obvious middle step here is to allow gay scouts, but not gay scout master (etc.). Why can no one see this?

  6. says

    Well, sorry about that private discussion and all hell breaking loose. But that’s sorta the only way oppression ends.


    “The corporations have money, power and influence. Our sole weapon is public outrage. Outrage blocked the Yuccan Dam, ousted Nixon, and in part, terminated the monstrosities in Vietnam. But outrage is unwieldy to manufacture and handle. First, you need scrutiny; second, widespread awareness; only when this reaches a critical mass does public outrage explode into being. Any stage may be sabotaged. The corporations can fight scrutiny buy burying truth in committees, dullness, misinformation, or by intimidating the scrutinizers. They extinguish awareness by dumbing down education, owning TV stations, paying ‘guest-fees’ to leader writers, or just buying the media up. The media is where democracies conduct their civil wars.”

    -an interview conducted by Luisa Rey, Spyglass Magaine.
    David Mitchell’s CLOUD ATLAS

  7. Tothepoint says

    So pettiness is getting in the way of the BSA doing the RIGHT thing?! Again, I have to re-iterate. F*CK the BSA and their immature, hateful and bigotted F*CK*NG attitudes. The scouts would be MUCH better off without being taught to hate and discriminate against their fellow compatriate.

  8. Tothepoint says

    @Reasonability. Your reasoning still espouses discrimination. Now you would be teaching scouts it is ok to respect everyone but adult LGBTs. So a gay scout will know they are respected as young people, they will NOT be respected as adults. Further, bullying would not exist if everyone respected everyone, no matter the reason.

  9. Francis says

    They weren’t ready for the backlash. They underestimated us. Now it’s time for the BSA to do the right thing and fully eliminate this horrific ban.

  10. DannyEastVillage says

    @ Reasonability (AND @ TothePoint): your argument doesn’t just continue discrimination, but also implicitly gives place to the argument that gay=pedophile. Thanks but no thanks.

  11. Rich says

    Your compromise doesn’t work. One of the cases that has brought this controversy to prominence was the lesbian mom who was fired as a den mother.

    You tell a little boy “You’re OK, but your mom isn’t.” Damned if I would.

  12. Bill says

    The BSA guy in the interview should have shown up in drag – as Marie Antoinette on steroids. What he was basically saying, is “They can’t buy bread? Let them eat cake,” followed by “quick, corner the market on cake,” sotto voce.

  13. Uncle says

    How much is NOM paying this uncle tom? NOM really knows how to use black people and this is proof. Black people were not allowed to be Boy Scouts not that long ago until the laws were changed, notice how this NOM drone avoids that when asked? This is plainly a black anti-gay Christian working for the hate group, National Organization for Marriage.

  14. Mary says

    I see Reasonability’s point about allowing gays as scouts but not as scout leaders. Until recently I would have said that this policy at least allows for some progress. And I’d still rather see this happen than seen the no-gays-allowed-ata-all policy that the BSA has now. But there IS something a bit off about saying that scouts can join but not lead. It reeks of a second-class citizenship status. And people working for equality don’t want to validate that kind of thinking.

    I think that a better policy would be – if an inclusive BSA is still some time in the future – to let individual chapters of the scouts decide for themselves whether or not to let in gay members. This allows for some leeway – those who can’t accept equality still have some choice in the matter. I have no doubt that in time all scout chapters will accept gays.

  15. CantSay says

    The BSA was a chief client of the PR agency I worked at in the early 90s. Our client contact was gay (yet a former Eagle Scout) and only the agency team knew. (Alas, I was gay, too, but young and in denial, anyway….). Am still surprised the client contact never wrote a book or revealed it in a big way. Prior to the BSA he worked for a women’s haircare product, so you’d think they’d have more of a clue,

  16. Diogenes Arktos says

    I’m always amused that an African American rails about LGBT rights – especially someone as historically and legally ignorant as Cooper. I am floored that he didn’t know BSA used to deny membership on race!

  17. Buckie says

    Take all the time you need. Our opponents will use it to piss away more money paying themselves exorbitant salaries and further make a$$es of themselves and their bigoted allies.

  18. Bill Michael says

    There’s a lot of money riding on this. Lot’s and lot’s of public and private funding to pay the salaries and retirement portfolios of the boys at the top is what’s at stake. The ONLY reason the BSA leadership will ever change is their never-ending greed for gold.

  19. Jerry6 says

    Unfortunately, it seems that most comments appear to be from people who are not old enough to know what Scouting was in this country 40-60 years ago. Back then, the Moron Church was not the sponsors of Scout Troops. Back then, Gay and Strait Scouts got along fine. We frequently went on weekend Camping trips to nearby undeveloped areas several times during the non cold months. Gay Scouts and “Straits” got along fine without any problems. It was only when Churches got involved in Scouting that we had problems. The Churches have destroyed the “Live and Let Live” life of Scouting.

    Insidentily, Has anyone not noticed that the Churches have gotten involved because they are losing so many members that they decided that MAYBE they might gain some by “Educating young boys to their beliefs” while they are still young enough to not realize that they are being Brain Washed?

  20. Bill says

    @Diogenes Arktos: The BSA had African American members in 1911. The issue was that membership in a particular “troop” or “council” was a local decision, so while there was racial discrimination, it more or less followed local customs.

    More or less, they tolerated racial discrimination, much as the U.S. federal government did until the civil rights movement made that unacceptable. It seems the BSA did not actually ban racial discrimination until 1974 – about 10 years after the Civil Rights Act was passed.

    We can use that as an estimate of how long it will take for them to ban discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation: their behavior regarding racial discrimination suggests that they will be 10 years behind, although it might end faster today (assuming economic pressure will increase faster than it did in the past).

  21. says

    Years ago…(1960’s! Too long ago!) I was standing outside the school room, with a few other boys, waiting to go inside to join the Boy Scouts.
    I was being ‘teased’ (called ‘bullying’ today) by an obnoxious kid, Frank Garofalo, who had been a pain in the ass as long as I could remember.
    This time, I had had Enough…and I decked him. He fell back against the door, and to the ground. I decided that the Boy Scouts was Not For Me, and walked away.

  22. Canuck says

    And of course no experience out side the US matters does it?
    Gays are not restricted from membership or leadership positions in Scouts Canada, the Baden-Powell Service Association in the United States, Scouts Australia, and most European associations, including The Scout Association of the United Kingdom (you know the birth of Scouting), Ring deutscher Pfadfinderverbände of Germany (German Scout Federation), and the Swedish Guide and Scout Association.
    Then again the same seems true for marriage. Canada has had it for ten years and the only impact seems to have been our banks coming through the crash intact. But that never seems to come up in the discussions. (If the other side can play correlation without causality why cant we?)

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