Piers Morgan’s Two-Day Train Wreck with Trans Issues and Janet Mock: VIDEO

Trans woman, advocate and author Janet Mock appeared on Piers Morgan earlier this week in connection with her book Redefining Realness, Buzzfeed reports:

Morgan_mockMorgan ended the first segment of the Piers Morgan Live interview by saying that Mock at one point had to tell the man she was dating that “you used to be yourself a man” — although Mock has never identified as a man.

The on-screen description of Mock was that she “was a boy until age 18,” although she was identifying as a girl in high school, and the Piers Morgan Live Twitter account posed the question during the interview, “How would you feel if you found out the woman you are dating was formerly a man?”

“He’s trying to do info-tainment,” Mock told BuzzFeed Tuesday night. “He doesn’t really want to talk about trans issues, he wants to sensationalize my life and not really talk about the work that I do and what the purpose of me writing this book was about.”

After the show aired Mock sent out a series of tweets including this one:

The tweets apparently launched a barrage of criticism against Piers Morgan that was effective enough to have Morgan invite Mock back on his show to ask her what he did wrong (see next clip).

Mediaite reports:

Morgan repeatedly bemoaned how much he’s been attacked, saying he “spent an infuriating 24 hours,” he was “viciously abused,” cried “I’m being vilified!”, and asked why someone like him, who openly supports LGBT rights and equality, has gotten such “a load of abuse.”

Mock told Morgan she was too “scared” to rebut his references to her as having previously been a man, which she argued isn’t fair because gender is more about how a person identifies themselves as opposed to the genitalia they possess. Morgan argued there is nothing wrong with saying she was born a boy and continued to complain, “you threw me to the wolves a little bit.”

Zack Ford at Think Progress adds:

Morgan began the interview with Mock from a very defensive perspective, claiming that he’d been “abused” by the trans community and demanding an explanation as to why the criticism seemed to come out of the blue. She admitted that during her first interview with him, she was “scared” to confront him and that she was trying to be a “cordial guest,” but Morgan seemed confused as to what she had to be scared of. Throughout the interview, he continued to interrupt her and insist that he had a clear understanding of her story, often ignoring her as she corrected him. Here is how Mock explained the evolution of her gender identity:

MOCK: Before commercial break, we had a lovely conversation, and then all of a sudden you said, “…who was formerly a man.” I was a baby. I was assigned male gender because of the appearance of my genitals. As I grew up, I discovered my girlhood, I discovered my womanhood, and I proclaimed and defined myself for myself.

That explanation didn’t stick. Morgan insisted on asking why it is offensive to say that she “grew up as a boy” and that she “had surgery to become a woman, to become a real woman.” Mock explained that there is a difference between sex and gender…

…Mock pointed out that though Morgan may have felt vilified and misunderstood since Tuesday night’s interview, that’s how transgender people feel every single day. Still, he insisted that she was to blame for not bringing these concerns up during the original interview — neglecting to apologize for how he consistently misrepresented her story and identity.

Finally, instead of letting the segment sit and serve as a learning experience for both viewers and participants, Morgan had to invite a panel on to discuss it, which allowed the panelists to make a series of transphobic remarks directed at Mock.

Equality Matters notes:

The panel was a trainwreck of transphobic misinformation.

— Morgan opened the segment by laughing at a "pun" that conflated Mock's sexual orientation and gender identity.
— Holmes asserted that, as a transgender woman, Mock should have expected to be misgendered, objectified, and sensationalized.
— Ferguson conflated Mock's birth sex and gender, stating that "doctors and science" proved she was born a man. He went on to suggest that Mock was "in the head" and refusing to accept the "facts" about her gender.
— Ferguson also accused Mock of creating a "fake controversy" in order to sell more books, echoing accusations that Morgan himself made earlier in the day on Twitter.

None of the panelists Morgan invited on his show are transgender, nor do any of them have any expertise or background studying or dealing with transgender issues. Morgan never once corrected his guests for making transphobic comments, laughing at Mock's identity, or accusing Mock of creating a "fake controversy" to sell books, even though Mock wasn't present to defend herself.

UPDATE: The conservative rag Daily Caller has just issued this tasteful headline regarding the Mock-Morgan segments.

Dctranny

Comments

  1. Matt says

    This story has me conflicted. On one side I hate obnoxious overly sensitive activists (trans activists seem to have a higher than normal concentration of theses types). On the other anything bad that happens to that vile slime ball Morgan makes me smile.

  2. MaryM says

    Mock may not have identified as a boy but she had a penis and was regarded as a boy by society.

    Morgan is not a trans expert and neither is his audience. Mock’s hysterical reaction means that trans activists won’t be invited back on that show.

    Time for the GLB to lose the T. Why are the problems of a straight woman like Janet Mock our concern?

  3. Derrick from Philly says

    @ “Exactly how many times a week is a trans activist going to attack a longtime ally and alienate them from wanting to help us all?”

    OK. It’s only Thursday, and we have one more day to go, but I think you’ll win the award for dumbest comment of week.

    “…from wanting to help us all?”

    And who the f.ck is “us”? Log Cabin b.tches?

  4. Marshall says

    What Piers Morgan doesn’t get and what should be coming to the forefront of a controversy like this, is that homophobia and transphobia are internalized by everyone. Ridding yourself of those internalized feelings and ideas is a lifetime process. When a straight person makes the decision to support the LGBT community they generally feel like they’ve finished a journey. Instead, like those of us in the LGBT community know, they’ve just begun a journey. To be fair to Piers Morgan, Janet Mock took offense to his internalized transphobia when she should have made friendly corrections – had that failed making a big stink is then appropriate.

  5. Rowan says

    Seriously, the American LGBT people have to be the biggest BRATS I have ever seen, as well as ungrateful f*ckers. Lol, you wait, the straight media community will stop coming to your aid and you will only have the Andy Cohen’s in the gay media world to represent you. And what a NICE guy he is? Huh? SMDH.

    If she had responded to him in a non bitchy and open manner…it would NOT have gotten to this. Cry me a frigging river.

  6. hugo says

    Yes, Morgan is supportive of the GLBT community but he is also a UK tabloid hound, which is a vicious pack. To go on the air and expect a nuanced and sensitive treatment by and from him is really naive.

    He wants ratings and he’ll do anything to get them – and, in our culture, that means to be as sensationalist as possible, and to boil everything down into black & white soundbites.

  7. MaryM says

    Janet Mock had her penis amputated – why is she so freaked out about being called a boy when that is what her familyk, friends and society regarded her as?

  8. Hrm says

    Derrick, does your lame personal attack make you feel better about yourself? “Us,” clearly is the LGBT community, which P. Morgan AND G. Sidibe have always gone out of their way to help. Same thing with Madonna. But ONE wrong word and people jump all over them, when frankly, they don’t have to help the gay community at all. They don’t HAVE to mention that treating gay people differently is wrong. They don’t HAVE to defend gay rights in their interviews, music, or performances, but they do. Go ahead, attack them, and see how long until they just plain stop wasting their time with ungrateful bitches.

  9. Mike8787 says

    This comment thread is disappointingly indicative of the anti-trans sentiment in the LGBT community. Mock was completely within her rights to take issue with Morgan’s treatment of her and all trans people. Furthermore, that Piers Morgan doesn’t get that simply identifying as an ally doesn’t give you free reign to say and do what you like is disappointing.

    And since when does being an “LGBT ally” get you off the hook for insensitivity? If Morgan had invited on a gay male show guest and spent the segment asking him about anal sex, this comment thread would be full of people up in arms. That you think Morgan gets some sort of pass because he has occasionally been supportive of LGBT rights is ridiculous and you wouldn’t say the same if he was insulting LGB people.

  10. dft426 says

    morgan, like katie couric before him may have gotten some things wrong… but isn’t it the duty of the misrepresented to correct them?

    i thought laverne cox and carmen carrerra did a better job of redirecting the conversation after their couric interview (and obviously katie did a beter job following up). playing the victim doesn’t work here for morgan… instead of accusing mock of “vilifying him”, he should have asked her how to treat trans issues. what are the correct terms? what is the journey like? what is the correct way to say someone was born into the wrong body? i feel like a “teachable moment” was missed in the name of ratings and headline making…

  11. Mike8787 says

    Seriously, what is wrong with the people in this comment thread? Your complete lack of compassion for trans people — and active animus in some cases — is disgusting and I am genuinely considering not reading this blog any more because of it.

    As people who have faced discrimination likely your entire lives, SHAME ON YOU for being so intolerant and hateful of others. We are supposed to be a community, and people who think, talk, and act like you are definitely not welcome in it.

  12. says

    I’m hoping with all my might the anti-trans comments are all from one very sad and very depressed individual because if not there is still a long way to go with our community truly becoming all-inclusive.

  13. Gigi says

    Mock is not a wallflower. She had no problem steamrolling Morgan during the second interview. I find it difficult to believe that she was so intimidated by him the first night that she felt paralized to challenge the words he used to describe her. She got a lot of publicity though, didn’t she? As did Piers. I often wonder if these “twitter feuds” aren’t somehow planned to get them some buzz.

  14. rayj says

    Piers could have invited any number of published academic researchers who could have explained to him and the other members of his panel that gender identity is a construct. External genitalia does not equal gender. For example how do you classify a genetic male with androgen insensitivity?

    I find it hard to believe that he wanted to truly understand where his guest was coming from.

  15. says

    This is getting out of hand now, we’re not happy enough to have defend ourselves against those who genuinely attack us, we’re now spoiling for a fight at every minute potential possibility no matter whether the person has been an open proponent of LGBT equality for years!

    We’re now attacking people over semantics, f*cking SEMANTICS! Never mind the fact that he’s been supportive, never mind the fact that he’s invited her on to talk at length about the issues and her book when other shows would not even consider it, ignore the fact that it was wholly positive and beneficial to the entire community, he used a word that someone with an over-sensitive mind took and run with, and then attacked him for it.

    It seems that, these days, if someone on TV wants to even interview someone from the LGBT community they need to take a full-time course in gender equality, psychology and gender studies for six months beforehand, just so they don’t use the “wrong word” and are subsequently ganged up on by oversensitive Tweeters.

    I am entirely on his side on this, and as a Brit that should be concerning. This man was always considered to be a vile, lying bully in the UK, and I never thought I would be defending him over anything.

    This has to stop. Stop attacking our allies, stop being over sensitive bitches with a thirst for “crusading”, and stop embarrassing all of us when there are plenty of REAL and GENUINE issues still out there.

  16. FFS says

    Morgan is an idiot, so I can’t say I really expected much more from him.

    Anyone with so much as two properly function neurons to rub together knows that you don’t argue with an oppressed minority member when they point out that you’re guilty of offensive behavior. Instead of approaching his own ignorance from a humble place and willingness to learn, Morgan lashes out at the person he claims to want to support.

    My parents are racists. They’re not hateful people and they don’t mean to be racist, but everyone they’ve ever known and respected was racist and they’ve lived too sheltered a life to have their offensive preconceptions challenged. I’m the only white person they’ve ever known who isn’t racist and when I try to correct their wrong-headed thinking they look at me like I suddenly started speaking Greek.

    Ignorance is a sickness. A woefully under-addressed pandemic.

  17. Marshall says

    I find most of these comments are hateful. The utter lack of empathy for Mock is appalling.

    Also, the fact no transfolks on Morgan’s panel is disquieting.

  18. ANTB says

    “The road to hell is paved with good intentions” should be the motto of anyone who dares express any kind of solidarity, empathy, or well-wishes toward the T community, because you WILL be smacked down. You won’t be able to figure out why you’re being smacked down, or follow the twisted semantics, or understand the viciousness of the inevitable attacks on your integrity (see: Dan Savage) but you will have a motto to remember the next time you’re stupid enough to think you might want to defend the T in LGBT.

  19. Just Sayin' says

    This reminds me of the Family Guy episode “Quarmire’s Dad”.

    It had all the trans activists and their supporters really P.O.’d…

    They didn’t get it. They didn’t get that most people have absolutely no clue about what trans people go through. And how the heck would they ?

    Trans activists and their supporters – you have a lot of work to do. You need to focus on education, not condemnation and stupid PR stunts and your anger and outrage. It’s a huge turn-off and does nothing to further your cause.

    For instance, many of you expect the people around you that had no idea, that you’ve never even spoken to about what you are going through, to just instantly accept you when you make the transition. You’re hypocrites. On one hand, you fully admit that person you were is gone, yet bemoan people for having difficulty with the “new” you, the “real” you. The conflict you create and foster is a colossal mindf*ck.

    The sad thing, the really tragic thing is, so many people really WANT to be supportive of you, to be your friends, but you didn’t actually DO anything to make this possible.

    You shocked them to the core and expected them to gracefully deal immediately.

    Oh, and when you CHOOSE to FREELY be interviewed by someone with a reputation that displays he’s an idiot, it’s YOU’RE responsibility to be prepared to dot he job you need to do. You’re representing and educating the interviewer and the public.

    Take it seriously or leave it to someone who’s competent. There are plenty of kind, intelligent, and eloquent trans people out there that can handle the job.

  20. says

    Sorry, but her explanation in the follow-up segment barely made sense to me. And if she’s strong enough to write a book and go on a national show, she’s strong enough to object to ignorance on the spot, rather than start Twitter bashing.

    I want to know more. I want to understand how my well-meaning ignorance might be hurtful to others. I am teachable. But this transgender woman has only taught me that she can’t get past her offense to use a teachable moment when she sees one.

  21. says

    OMG THESE COMMENTS!!!! :( :( :( :(
    If you know a trans* person personally or professionally and you are reading this thread in abject horror then please log off now, go and tell the trans* person in your life that you love them, value them and honor them. A hug, a text, a FB message, something to let them know that they are not alone and that these anonymous trollers do not have the power to eliminate the T from the GLB “community”. Allies who can’t be open to criticism are not real allies! #noalliesinthewild

  22. SpaceCadet says

    I support the T in LGBT because they are frequently attacked and judged harshly as the rest of the acronym. Janet has a right to be sensitive because it’s a sensitive issue and Piers wasn’t getting it but I understood. She didn’t want to be sensationalized and mislabeled. She was born with male genitalia but has never identified as a man/boy. Therefore it was inaccurate and misinformed to refer to Janet as having once been a man.

  23. Mike in Houston says

    The comments here are nearly as bad as the panel “discussion”… it’s clear that there are some WOEFULLY uneducated people among Towle Road readers when it comes to trans issues.

    Ferguson, Holmes and Morgan continue to try and define a person by what’s between their legs, and some folks here say the trans community is overly sensitive…

    These same folks, I would wager, get awfully angry when their relationships and lives are reduced to what they do sexually.

  24. DanielS1 says

    I watched both interviews fully. Piers praised her during the first interview and commended her and her book and I was impressed with Janet and thought she was the perfect spokesperson for the trans community. I had never heard of her and after seeing that interview planned to support her by buying her book.

    After reading her tweets to Morgan and watching the entire second interview, I’m not going to buy her book.

    You may not like Piers, but he has been a HUGE supporter of the LGBT community.

    I will never understand why people try and harm those that are trying to help them, and he WAS trying to help her get her message out in that first interview.

  25. will says

    She should be grateful she got any airtime at all.

    “I was assigned male gender because of the appearance of my genitals.”

    No, you weren’t assigned anything. You were born with a penis by nature. Your genitals looked like a penis because it was a penis. Don’t get overly sensitive, girlfriend. If you didn’t like the penis and you wanted to try another gender, fine — but that doesn’t mean you weren’t male.

    Let’s boycott this woman. She’s a train wreck and she looks like she’s out for attention and she appears duplicitous.

  26. Joe in Ct says

    Can we (GLBTs) just divorce the T-activist people now and get on with our lives? We don’t speak the same language of love and it’s confusing everyone.

  27. FFS says

    Is trolling this blog your full-time job? Is there really someone out there idiotic enough to pay someone to post vile tripe on the internet, morning, noon and night?

    What do you think you’re accomplishing here? No one is stupid enough to buy what you’re selling.

    Divide & Conquer was innovative about 2,000 years ago. These days, it’s just tired. Try something else, Troll.

  28. Victor says

    1. Mock wrote a story on Huffington Post entitled “It Happened to Me: I Told My Boyfriend I Was Born a Boy” in it there’s a line “OK, let me just say it: I was born a boy.” This is not like Marie Claire story, where she had no control over the title. This is her own posting on Huffington Post Blog.

    2. I understand all the people here decrying insensitivity of others, but the problem is the society does need to understand the issue and to understand the society needs a way to talk about it. And that’s what I see in all these comments, a question “How do we talk about it sensitively?” Sadly, I’m not seeing an actually constructive response.

  29. Matthew says

    So one of the objections that the activists have is as follows:

    “Morgan opened the segment by laughing at a “pun” that conflated Mock’s sexual orientation and gender identity.”

    Oh, so it is wrong to conflate sexual orientation and gender identity! Then let’s stop using the transphobic expression “LGBT”. It is wrong to conflate LGB and T. And as an ardent anti-transphobe I will call out anyone who uses “LGBT” as the bigot and transphobe that they are.

  30. Matthew says

    Spacecadet, Ts may be attacked by some and some Ts may support equality. That makes them fair candidates to be allies with LGBs on some issues. It does not mean that they are one people with LGBs. That just makes no sense. Immigrants, African Americans, single mothers, the working poor – these are all groups that are abused and also which have members working for equality. That doesn’t mean we form “one people” with all of these different groups. You can have allies w/o forfeiting your identity.

    LGBs are a group with a common trait. We have the right to our own identity. We should not be told that we are incomplete or that we bring in heterosexual people with gender issues to be complete.

  31. kipp says

    I am happy we live in a society with the technology and enlightenment that makes it possible for people who wish to transition to do so and I strive to treat trans people (or more specifically, the ones who don’t already pass so well I don’t even know) as their presented gender. But this exchange, and the contentious seemingly willfully attempt by both sides to interpret the other as uncaharitably as possible, seems designed by both parties merely for publicity. Perhaps it will do someone else some good, too, but I doubt it.

  32. Quicksilver says

    Whether she had a penis or a big old third ear down there, this Mock person getting all bitchy does zero for the cause. If the trans community is going to be nothing but hypersensitive, passive-aggressive, screeching fools over pronouns, I really don’t want to have much to do with them.

  33. Ben says

    I am no fan of Pier’s Morgan but I don’t think he needs to be vilified for this. The thing is Janet Mock didn’t correct him in the interview, instead she did the cowardly thing and told him to f off on twitter. So if anyone should be given a slap on the wrist for this it’s her.

  34. Helene says

    Victor, that’s a great point. She has used the very language that she is now complaining about.

    The bottom line is that this is not about legitimate complaints that can be addressed. No matter what you do, no matter what words you pledge not to use or no matter what ridiculous beliefs about gender you agree to adopt, it will not satisfy them. They will just invent new reasons to feel aggrieved.

    They attack because so long as they are attacking, they are the moral judges of others. They can judge others and never have to look at themselves.
    The enemy is always out there somewhere and thus their attention can then be directed at someone other than themselves. Here’s just a few of the people that they have attacked in recent weeks and months:

    – A black woman for discussing trans violence

    – A morning news show that didn’t fawn over Laverne Cox

    – A journalist who exposed an investment fraud scheme run by a “transwoman”

    – Tampex

    – People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals

    – Neil Patrick Harris

    – Gay filmmaker Diego Luna

    – A lesbian music festival in Michigan

    – A tow truck driver who helped tow a vehicle at that music festival (physically assaulted)

    – The Baltimore Sun

    – David Letterman

    – Jay Leno

    – Oprah

    – Dan Savage (physically assaulted)

    – HRC

    – Feminists

    – The New Hampshire legislature and media for exposing the criminal past of the first “transwoman” elected to the legislature

    – Gay people who support marriage equality.

    – Wells Fargo Bank

    – Teenage girls who complained about an adult transwoman who displayed “her” penis in a women’s locker room in Washington

    – Parents of Colorado school children who expressed concern over the use of the girls bathroom by a “trans” girl.

    These are just the “enemies” that I could remember and those are just the ones from recent months. The best way to deal with trans activists is to fight them. Deny them whatever they demand. Appeasing them never works.

  35. Mike8787 says

    LOL @ people like Helene. Clearly you have personal issues if you are so bothered by the trans community that you have a list (or have memorized) of perceived slights and insults against you.

    You are not a member or a friend to the LGBT community. Begone, troll.

  36. Victor says

    Helene,

    This is far beyond what I said. And I DO believe in full equality and the need for respectful attitude and approach to any member of society. I was just commenting, as you correctly pointed out, that, based on what I have read so far about it, Mock herself used identical or substantially similar language to describe her situation. And that she should have talked about the language she actually prefers on the first show. Morgan, for all his faults, is not Bill O’Reilly and would have been willing to adopt.

    Mike8787,

    I don’t know, but I suspect Helene is an anti-transgender feminist. Likely, an anti-transgender feminist lesbian. I’m guessing one of the “womyn-born womyn.”

  37. Steven Blevins says

    Why it matters…

    According to a 2011 survey by the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force and the National Center for Transgender Equality, those who identify or present as transgender/gender non-conforming face significantly higher levels of crime, poverty, discrimination and harassment, HIV infection, and rates of suicide or attempted suicide. Negative or adverse experiences or outcomes were much higher still for trans women and trans people of color. Consider these statistics from that survey:

    – 4 times more likely to live in extreme poverty, with 34% of black respondents earning less than 10k/year (the rate is 9% for black American generally)
    – 41% reported attempting suicide (compared to 1.6% of the population generally), with even higher rates those fired from a job due to anti-trans bias (55%), those harassed/bullied in school (51%), or those who were the victim of physical or sexual assault (61% and 64% respectively)
    – Nearly 20% reported being homeless at some and 20% report being denied housing due to their gender identity or presentation, while 41% of black respondents report being homeless at some time
    – 78% of those in K-12 reported harassment, 35% reported physical assault, and 12% sexual violence); 15% reported leaving school early due to severe harassment or violence
    – Twice the rate of unemployment as the national average
    – Unemployment jumps to 4 times the average for black respondents, with over 25% reporting that they were unemployed
    – 90% of respondents reported harassment and/or discrimination in the workplace
    – 16% reported selling drugs or engaging in sex work due to adverse work experiences or difficulty finding employment due to their gender identity or presentation
    – Meanwhile 78% reported better performance and greater confidence in their jobs after transitioning
    – 53% of respondents report being harassed or discriminated against in other areas of public accommodation.
    – 41% do not have an ID that matches their gender identity or presentation, often due to legal discrimination or financial impediments
    – 22% reported abuse or harassment by police and 46% said they could not trust the police to report crimes against them
    – 15% of those who had spent time in jail or prison reported being sexually assaulted, rising to 32% for black respondents
    – Four times the national average for HIV infection, with a 20% infection rate for black respondents and another 10% reporting that they didn’t know their status
    – 19% of respondents had been refused medical care due to their gender identity or presentation
    – 57% experienced significant family rejection, though black respondents were more likely than the overall sample to report family acceptance.
    – 63% reported significant acts of discrimination and 23% reported catastrophic (life threatening) acts or events

    Another study shows that transgender and gender non-conforming persons are 28% more likely to experience acts violence, with trans women and trans women of color significantly more likely to experience violence.

    I think it is really important to think about how vulnerable trans and gender noncom populations can be, and that risk is felt unevenly across racial and class lines. I think we can all do better than the discussion here on Towleroad and that on Piers Morgan. If we don’t, more lives will be harmed or lost.

  38. SpaceCadet says

    Matthew, I think you have to ask yourself why you’re so opposed to transgender people belong in the same acronym as gay people. No one ever said we all share the same identity. A lot of transgender people before the transition are attacked for the perception they are gay so they suffer from homophobia as well. And transgenders along with homosexuals have traditionally and historically have had to fight the hardest and longest for legal protections that a lot of other minorities have. So yes, I and many others stand by transgender people and believe LGBT are all in the same fight together for tolerance and equality. If you don’t like that then too bad.

  39. says

    Okay but I think it’s really important that we take a look at Piers Morgan’s behavior this whole interview because I see these exchanges between hurt allies and the people they’re claiming to support every day on social media. He’s a professional, but he spends the entire segment prodding Janet Mock for an apology and an explanation for his vilification. He keeps saying he wants to learn from what he did wrong, but he’s really not listening to her, he’s just thinking about what he’s going to say in his defense, and I think the issue here is that he needs to be less concerned with how he’s going to defend himself and really try and absorb her message as to what went wrong during their first interview.

    As an ally, you need to understand that your inability to experience trans issues firsthand puts you at this gap where you are really bound to say something misinformed if you decide you want to speak out on the issue. If and when that time comes that you say something transphobic despite your good intentions, you can’t sit there and stress your intentions. You can’t be so worried about your own credibility to put ahead of the important discussion of trans representation, because when you do mess up and say something wrong you can take that opportunity to learn from your mistakes, and show anyone watching an example of what not to do when it comes to this discussion. When you try to establish yourself as a good person exempt from critique simply because you’re trying to help, you’re derailing the entire discussion you were trying to help get out there.

    The worst part for me is when Piers says “You’ve given me advice that I also may not feel I need, but I’ve taken it in good grace.” I don’t understand how Piers, as a cis man can sit right in front of a prominent and extremely well educated and well spoken trans spokeswoman and

    Ignore everything she says in terms of how to properly talk about transwomen and trans issues and say outright he doesn’t think there’s anything he can learn from what she says as a transwoman and a transactivist
    Try and tell her how she should represent herself and take control of the entire discussion of trans issues, as a cis man
    It’s really dangerous to tote around your ally card, and in fact hold it up as if it exempts you from being criticized for anything and everything you say, and it’s even more dangerous to try and control the exchange on issues you could not possibly understand as well as the people who are living them. When you’re trying to speak for the people you claim to support, you’re shutting their voices out and you’re breaking down any progress to real representation. If you want to be a good ally, sit down, shut up and actually try and learn from the mouths of the people you want to support, the best way you can actually do that. Pointing fingers and getting offended and talking over these people isn’t helping anyone.

  40. Bill says

    Derrick said: “I don’t understand how Piers, as a cis man can sit right in front of a prominent and extremely well educated and well spoken trans spokeswoman and ignore everything she says in terms of how to properly talk about transwomen and trans issues”

    Let me see if I can help you understand. Because you seem to find this very complicated.

    You see, Derrick, Piers Morgan is not your slave. He is not Jane Mock’s slave. He doesn’t take orders from you. Neither you nor Janet Mock nor any other trans activist has any right to tell him what issues he can talk about or what his opinion must be.

    He actually has a mind and a free will of his own, and he doesn’t need help from you on how to exercise it. More importantly, trans activists have no authority, legal or moral, to instruct anyone on anything.

    Instead of playing master to Piers Morgan, why not focus on fixing your own miserable lives? Why not focus on figuring out why 1/3 of transfolk kill themselves and 41% of the survivors attempt to kill themselves. When suicide is a normative behavior in a community, it is time to examine deeply that community’s morals and sanity.

  41. FFS says

    “Bill,” the “LGB” community (as our resident donkey-raping troll is so found of touting) is plagued by higher suicide rates than the general population as well. That’s not an indicator of an inherent flaw within the community. It’s a symptom of the poisonous disregard we suffer at the hands of a hateful majority.

    You throw those figures out there, claiming that people should be concerned, when you, yourself, are complicit in their cause.

    Every person has the right to dictate the ways in which they prefer to be addressed and what speech concerning them they find to be offensive. Piers purports himself to be an ally, claims he wants to further understanding of and destigmatize trans* people, but then proceeded to behave counter to his claims.

    If you want to be a anti-trans*, no one is stopping you, but you don’t get to demand brownie points for being a respectful trans* ally whilst ignoring all recommendations on how best to do that because you’d rather act like a j@ck@ss, instead.

  42. Bill says

    Tranny apologist FFS said:

    “Every person has the right to dictate the ways in which they prefer to be addressed ”

    And yet, you put my name in scare quotes, even though I didn’t use such quotes. You don’t respect my choice to identify as LGB (which is how every gay, lesbian and bi person identified prior to the late 1990s). And you call me offensive names. On top of that, your trans friends call me and other gay men “cis” despite our objection. So please follow your own advice and then I will think about taking yours.

    “but you don’t get to demand brownie points for being a respectful trans* ally whilst ignoring all recommendations”

    Why would an ally demand or need “brownie points”? An alliance is an agreement by two independent entities to provide mutual support in specified areas and on terms agreed upon by the allies. Piers Morgan is a free, adult man, not a sycophantic schoolboy looking for approval from his teacher.

    You seem to think of an ally as a subservient being, required to shut up and adopt whatever a trans activist tells him. Piers Morgan has his own views, his own values, and the right to express both. If he is required to give that up in order to be an “ally” then he absolutely should not be an ally of trans activists. No one should.

    It’s funny how these supposed “ally” duties only run in one direction. LGBs, for example, are supposed to elevate trans issues to the highest priority and to obey all of the trans activists’ many rules of language and etiquette, while deferring to trans activists’ bizarre understanding of gender. But trans activists are never required to be silent, to defer to LGBs on all things LGB, and to accept our rules. What trans activists really want is to dominate, not to ally themselves with others. Classic bullies, albeit with fake boobs.

  43. StudioTodd says

    “I think it is really important to think about how vulnerable trans and gender noncom populations can be, and that risk is felt unevenly across racial and class lines.”

    So if that’s what is really important, Steven Blevins, then why do trans people work so hard to alienate potential allies? Why are they so quick to obnoxiously pile on anyone who dares to use a term they’ve decided to view as a perforative instead of addressing these issues that you label as “really important?”

    Frankly, I can’t keep up with all of the words I’m not supposed to use when referring to the transgendered (or the made up words they insist on using…I still don’t know wtf “cis” is supposed to mean). So instead, I feel safer just not speaking of them at all…

    If their goal is wider acceptance, they are sure going about it the wrong way.

  44. FFS says

    “Bill,” you’ve got the wrong idea. If I ever did anything to give you the mistaken impression that I have so much as one iota of respect for you, I’m truly sorry. Nothing could be further from the truth. That’s why I don’t give two figs about how you prefer to be addressed. And the “scare quotes” are applicable, considering the personal offense you showed at my dig to our resident Towleroad misanthropic troll loonie just showed you, “Bill,” to be yet another one of “Rick/Asam/Jason/MaryM”‘s sock puppet aliases.

    Take your insane anti-trans*, anti-women, anti-liberal ramblings and kindly shove them up your hiney hole.

  45. Julianne says

    I totally disagree. Mock was dishonest–she goes on this show, smiles, flirts even, reacts by blushing to Morgan’s comparison to Jackson, leaves the show, thanks him, shakes his hand and then goes home to monster him. She is dishonest. End of.

    Morgan showed great courage to have her back on and confront her. And there are loads of interviews with Mock referring to herself as a boy pre-transition. Sorry, but she looked bad and she behaved even worse. I dislike Mock and this form of gutless bullying.

    Watch the video here of Mock referring to herself as a boy:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/14/clay-cane-and-janet-mock-black-lgbt_n_1277424.html

  46. Misty says

    I’m sorry but the transmisogyny here is blatantly disgusting. Cis privilege is running rapid here.

    Look, part of the process of being an ally is understanding your privilege and that privilege can put blinders on oneself in understanding the experiences of those whom face systemic oppression in society, and also understanding that it’s always a process and not an identity. If the person whom is a member of an oppressed community does not feel comfortable with what you’ve done, it is not your job to tell them how they should feel or what not, because if you do, no matter what your intentions are, you are continuing that oppression whether you like it or not. Instead, one should apologize to them, shut up, listen and learn about what you can do to do better.

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