Bid to Stop Gay Rights Laws Fails in the UK
Approximately 1,000 demonstrators held their anti-gay rally outside Parliament in London last night, hoping to sway a vote in the House of Lords to block the laws, which forbid discrimination based on sexual orientation, and are already in place in Northern Ireland.
The laws were upheld on Tuesday by a margin of three to one, 199 votes to 68.
A debate lasting nearly two hours was impassioned from both sides, according to the Independent:
Lord Tebbit said: "These regulations would leave perfectly innocent people in fear of legal action from the fanatical wings of the lesbian, homosexual, gay pressure groups. Whatever the intention of those who drafted the regulations, they are bound to create not only a shadow, or umbra of prohibition, but a vastly-wider penumbra of the fear of prosecution."But Lord Smith, the former Labour culture secretary, launched an impassioned defence of the protections offered by the rules. He attacked critics of the regulations, telling peers: "What they are arguing for is quite simply the right to discriminate and the right to harass. These arguments are being made in the name of Christianity. I find that very difficult to understand. "People have the right to believe that homosexuality is somehow wrong. I believe very strongly that people have a right to hold views that may be bigoted or discriminatory, but I do not believe they have the right to put their beliefs into action."
Anti-gay campaigners say the rules are a threat to their "freedom of conscience" because they would be forced to act despite their religious beliefs.
Thomas Cordrey of the Lawyers' Christian Fellowship, the organizers of the rally, told Reuters: "Christians have no desire to discriminate unjustly on the grounds of sexual orientation, but they cannot and must not be forced to actively condone and promote sexual practices which the Bible teaches are wrong."
He also told the news outlet that the group was not homophobic. However, see the top photo and ask yourself if you agree with him.
The laws, which went into effect in Northern Ireland on the first of the year, are to take effect in England and Wales in April.
Said Andrew Copson, of the British Humanist Association: "[Discrimination] would not be acceptable in the areas of race, disability, age or religion or belief, and is not acceptable here. Either we hold human rights to be universal or we do not."
Lords defeat attempt to overturn gay rights law [independent]
Challenge to gay rights laws fails [reuters]
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Wow! Congrats to the Brits!! What great news! Sounds as if UK gays are on their way to becoming first-class citizens.
And so depressing that their arguments would not hold up here in the U.S., Land of the Freedom to Discriminate. Here we have yet to outlaw our own government from discriminating on the basis of sexuality, let alone private entities. Hell, Bob Jones University gave up its ban on interracial dating only a few years ago, and not because it was illegal...yep, anti-'miscegenation' practices are still legal in the U.S. of A, as long as they're on private property.
"Either we hold human rights to be universal or we do not."
It is sad when you know right away that such a statement, which incidentally makes my hair stand on end it is so charged with conviction, could never have been uttered by our leaders in the U.S. We don't even pay lip-service to human rights here, let alone demand they be universally upheld. Does our country have a moral fiber anymore? or were we always just juggling the influence of Christian funamentalism with the interests of big business? I'm getting pissed off.
Well, happy day, again, Brits!!!
Posted by: GBM | Jan 10, 2007 9:51:44 AM
"I believe very strongly that people have a right to hold views that may be bigoted or discriminatory, but I do not believe they have the right to put their beliefs into action."
If this were true, there wouldn't even BE a Catholic Church.
Posted by: mark m | Jan 10, 2007 9:52:05 AM
Love the pic chosen for the story. Only a str8 hooligan could design a protest-placard with such ineptitude. Between the smudged lettering (did he use sponge or a bare fist dipped in ink to write it?) and awkward line-spacing one can barely make the semi-legible hate emblazoned text.
This is why the homosexual agenda has little to fear in the long run from such brutish mindsets -- we can write properly (for the most part).
Posted by: rob adams | Jan 10, 2007 9:55:09 AM
Thank GOD! LOL
I'm proud of the Brits and I hope America follows and doesn't allow us to be discriminated against any longer.
It's time to end this.
Let Christians do as they please, but to say it's okay under the law to ridicule us, beat us up or kill us is beyond wrong.
Posted by: Bobby | Jan 10, 2007 10:08:32 AM
You've have thought that Christians, of all groups, would know persecutions don't work in the long run.
Posted by: protogenes | Jan 10, 2007 10:37:11 AM
If God were to exist, wouldn't you expect there to be a huge benefit to those who follow and obey him? Why, instead, do we see the opposite?
For example, there is growing evidence that the delusion of religion causes significant social dysfunction. Statistical research is revealing the problems that go with religion. For example, a recent article in the Journal of Religion and Society points out that religion is correlated to the significant social difficulties that we can see in America:
In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy, and abortion in the prosperous democracies. The most theistic prosperous democracy, the U.S., is exceptional, but not in the manner Franklin predicted. The United States is almost always the most dysfunctional of the developed democracies, sometimes spectacularly so, and almost always scores poorly. The view of the U.S. as a “shining city on the hill” to the rest of the world is falsified when it comes to basic measures of societal health.
The prevailing view is that religion is harmless even if it is delusional. That turns out not to be the case. America is the most religious country of those studied in the developed world. America also has the biggest problems in terms of things like homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy, and abortion.
http://godisimaginary.com/i24.htm
Posted by: vince | Jan 10, 2007 10:42:21 AM
Notice the new and improved buzz phrase that's now a favorite of homophobes around the world.
"UNJUST discrimination"
Mitt Romney is using it; the Pope is using it and now this English goon is using it. It's all the rage like "homa-sek-shul agenda" and "gay lifestyle" and "no special rights" and "love the sinner, hate the sin" before it.
Question: What exactly falls under the category of JUST discrimination? Is it discrimination that has a religious basis or a supposed Biblical, Torahnical or Qu’ranical mandate?
If so then let's scrap all laws that protect people from gender, racial, national origin, disability and YES religious discrimination too since there are clearly references in the Bible/Torah/Qu’ran that support each of these forms of bigotry.
I'm seriously growing VERY tired of having to defend myself and my family from these DAILY attacks from a never ending stream of ignorant, bigoted, hateful, low self esteem laden, religious and political nutcases.
Even as a practicing Christian I have to say that I wish the scourge of religion could be wiped from the face of the earth until people learn that spirituality is intended to UNITE people through love, respect, humility and acts of kindness.
Posted by: Zeke | Jan 10, 2007 10:52:43 AM
Welcome back to postingland, Zeke! For precisely the reasons you list, I can no longer call myself "Christian." I conciously decided to avoid using that term because of the baggage it carries...i.e. fundamentalists. The practice of religion IS a uniting force. The problem is that it unites people into small factions and, as is usually the case when people unite as a faction, they start to think that they're the faction with the answer (ref. to political parties, fraternities, gangs) and they try to force their factional views onto others.
Posted by: JT | Jan 10, 2007 11:07:14 AM
Bravo England. Fuck the x-tians. Long live the queers! And freedom from persecution and bigotry for all people!
Posted by: miss dna | Jan 10, 2007 11:21:08 AM
Thanks JT.
I usually avoid the term "Christian" like the plague myself but since I've explained, ad nauseam here at Towleroad, my understanding of what It means to ME to be a Christian, I felt safe using the term here. Usually I refer to myself as a spiritual person who follows the teachings and examples of Christ. I know it sounds crazy but THAT is what being a Christian means to me.
I challenge anyone to find fault with the teachings and examples of Christ. He judged no one but those who oppressed and judged others. He taught unconditional love and respect for all. He taught his followers to be humble in their lives AND in their spiritual practices. He ALWAYS stood up for the downtrodden, abused and oppressed even to the great dismay of the religious leaders of His day and He broke the rules of His own religion when He felt they were a hindrance to loving, helping, taking care of, encouraging and ministering to His fellow man.
Christ was NOT a Christian. He was a liberal, Jewish HUMANIST.
I don’t get into the hocus pocus or tedious rules that was added later by people who didn’t believe that Christ’s teachings and examples were sufficient to help people live with a sense community and responsibility for his neighbors’ wellbeing.
I would also like to point out that you misquoted me my friend. I NEVER said that “RELIGION” is a uniting force. I said SPIRITUALITY was intended to be, and should be, a uniting force. I’ve said many times here that “religion” is the manipulation and bastardization of spirituality to control the masses and oppress the vulnerable. Religion ALWAYS separates and causes strife and violence. Spirituality NEVER does.
Posted by: Zeke | Jan 10, 2007 11:51:52 AM
I want to make it clear that my intention is not to convert or even encourage people to believe as I do. I am not so ignorant, nor so arrogant, to believe that my beliefs work for everyone or to think that other belief systems produce less kind, less thoughtful and less community-minded citizens.
It is not important to me whatsoever that people believe as I do. I don’t believe as I do or do as I do to follow the rules of any religious organization or because I hope to earn some possible afterlife. I don’t even know if I believe in an “afterlife” beyond having my matter, energy and light returned to the universe. I believe what I believe and do as I do for the here and now and with the intent to leave the world just a little bit better than I found it for my kids and for mankind.
What IS important to me is that my words and my actions demonstrate to others that I am a person who genuinely loves, respects and attempts to encourage his fellow man, regardless of our differences in beliefs, opinions or individual journeys.
To be honest, I’ve learned more about kindness, love and community from my agnostic, atheist, Wicca/pagan and Buddhist friends than I ever learned growing up with constant instruction in a Southern Baptist tradition.
It’s clear to me that it’s the actions of the individual that matter. Their religion is only important insomuch as the actions that result from their beliefs and this can only be judged on an individual, case by case, basis.
Sorry for the sermon guys. I often feel the need to explain my spirituality in light of the horrors perpetrated in the name of a religion that is associated with it.
Posted by: Zeke | Jan 10, 2007 12:19:26 PM
Right now in the US you can an all-gay employee company or charity. Is this wrong? You can have an all-gay church or school too. Do you want to get rid of these options?
Posted by: anon | Jan 10, 2007 12:20:29 PM
Anon, I don't know of any such company, charity, church or school. Could you point to some examples of these straight excluding organizations?
And just in case they do exist, my answer to your question would be YES.
Posted by: Zeke | Jan 10, 2007 12:35:41 PM
They can rally 1000 people (big deal, huh?) but the truth is that we're a very irreligious nation especially compared to countries like the US. Many people still get married in church, of course, but there's now only about 1 million regular churchgoers out of a population of 60 million. Most of the protest was inspired by a false premise anyway, as Polly Toynbee's piece pointed out (linked in earlier story), they're getting worked up over nothing.
Oh and piss on Tebbit, one of Thatcher's boot boys from the 1980s and a borderline racist as well as a homophobe.
Posted by: John C | Jan 10, 2007 12:57:13 PM
Christianity is in its death throes. Has institutional Christianity ever embodied the teachings of Jesus? Or is it merely an expliotation of his name to advance the megalomanical interests of "religious" leaders? Look around and see what good institutionalized religion has brought the world. Hopefully more and more of humaity will awaken from this delusion. It is insanity and leading us to a precipice from which we must withdraw.
Posted by: busytimmy | Jan 10, 2007 1:24:51 PM
BusyTimmy, I couldn't agree more.
I wish the world could have a HUMANIST awakening. Who an individual looks to as his/her example or hero (be it Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, Mother Teresa, Gandhi, MLK Jr., the man/woman down the street or Cher) should be of no importance as long as the result is an individual who treats everyone he meets with the same love, respect and dignity that he expects from others for himself.
Very few monotheistic religions actually instill and promote the "golden rule" no matter how much lip service they may pay to it.
I’ve been very lucky to find a Christian congregation that truly promotes the golden rule above all other philosophical teachings. They clearly put the concept into action through words and deeds of kindness, justice and inclusion. Sadly it took me almost 40 years to find it.
Posted by: Zeke | Jan 10, 2007 3:06:23 PM
John C is right - Britain is not a religous country, particularly when compared to the US. This story may have made the news yesterday, but it's not been a major topic of debate in the media.
Oh and yes, Lord Tebbit is a complete bigot.
Posted by: Leo | Jan 10, 2007 3:19:02 PM
Protest for Jesus?
This is the Jesus who might actually have been gay?
Umm...does the big tub of goo on the far left of the first photo look like a church-goer (read BNP supporter, surprised he hasn't smacked the kid in front of him).
Anyway, thank the Lord(s)! Good one, UK.
Posted by: EM | Jan 10, 2007 4:21:42 PM
hmm...this is the sort of thing that we tend to 'tut tut' when we see it - not that there's been much coverage of it on the broadcast media over here in Blighty - and I mean 'tut tut' as in "what are those idiots doing out on the streets with placards? Bunch of religious nuts!"
It barely registered...We are so secular these days that anyone jumping up and down waving banners with the word 'God' written on it and we get all uncomfortable...visions of red state US. People largely accept that you can't sanction rights for one group but deny them to others. Its just not fair play.
Posted by: brainiac_amour | Jan 10, 2007 4:56:03 PM
Amen Bruv!
I had to rely upon Andy's posting to even here about it despite my watching BBC news thrice daily and reading both the Guardian and the Evening Standard I saw nothing on this, erm, protest that caught my attention let alone my eye. Another reason we refuse to have the likes of a Fox news infiltrate our broadcasting!
PS
Rudy (aka Ricardo?) darling if you're reading this please forgo the 'Brits are all bad shoes, bad food, greasy hair' routine again as it's as tiresome as you are...
Posted by: Lead | Jan 10, 2007 5:25:04 PM
I live in the UK, so I am really happy to see this law passed. However, I find it shocking just how bothered the Christians are being. Surely they have something better to do then make a fuss over homosexuals who, to be fair, play no part in their lives. I'm sure Christians preach "love thy neighbour" so it makes you laugh when they pull stunts like this. They should rewrite the Bible with "Love thy neighbour. Oh, but only if they're straight."
Posted by: Edd | Jan 10, 2007 5:46:45 PM
Bigotry and hatred emanating from christians seems so commonplace now that one must assume it forms the true basis of their religion, and all their carry-on about "love" is just a smokescreen for their darker reality. Still its good to see that ignorant, vulgar christians are not a uniquely American phenomenon
Posted by: Paul B | Jan 10, 2007 7:04:17 PM
Hey Zeke, good to hear you've found your spot, spiritually speaking. I've been finding a lot of wisdom the Eckhart Tolle's books recently, nothing particularly new in them... I like th way he puts things together and makes connections. Also, it's good to remember that Jesus wasa rabble rouser againt the religious status quo, wh ahd definitely put god in a box.
Posted by: busytimmy | Jan 10, 2007 8:32:22 PM
I am not the least surprised that Christians would be fighting for the "right" to express their biggotry. After all, one only needs to read their horrendous book, to understand how evil that cult is.
But what I truly find incomprehensible, is the twisted "logic" that allows gay people to desperately try to belong to a cult that calls them "worthy of death" (Romans, NT) and prescribes the method they should be killed (Leviticus, OT)
Posted by: Humanist | Jan 11, 2007 12:17:04 AM
THE GOLDEN RULE STINKS.
I am so tired of people telling me how wonderful way to live it is to treat others the same way you wish them to treat YOU. How fucking selfish and how fucking typical of religious people.It is always all about THEM. They will live for ever, they are the chosen ones, they are special..
You should treat people they way THEY want to be trated, not the way YOU want them to treat YOU, because obviously, their tastes may be different from yours.
Posted by: Golden Rule | Jan 11, 2007 12:22:45 AM