11/17/2008
Second Half of Larry King Live with Joy Behar on Prop 8
Here's the second half of the Larry King Live Prop 8 special from Friday night that I was looking for this morning. The first half featured Cynthia Nixon. The second features Gavin Newsom, Dan Savage, Bishop Harry Jackson, Rev. Jim Garlow.
On Saturday, Dan Savage wrote on his site what he wished he'd said on Larry King:
"Well, amongst other things: When political attacks are launched from churches, political responses will be delivered to churches. If goddamned McDonald's had organized and paid for Prop 8, we'd be marching on goddamned McDonald's."
Watch it, AFTER THE JUMP...
Here's the first half.
Posted 7:50 PM EST by Andy Towle in California, Dan Savage, Gay Marriage, Larry King, Mormon, News, Proposition 8 | Permalink
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I'd like to say that Dan Savage is EXACTLY the kind of representation that is so desperately needed. He knows that one of the techniques of Anti-Gay Speakers is to speak fast, a lot and don't let the Pro-Gay speaker get a word in edgewise. Dan has figured that out and plys quick, well-worded statement and replies and does not allow the Anti-Gay speaker to hog the airwaves.
This guy has great potential, I submit to you, to be a strong leader beyond what he is doing now, in the Gay Rights movement.
Posted by: Alan | Nov 17, 2008 8:17:55 PM
I think we REALLY need to be clear that organized religion is utterly useless and quite often dangerous. I am very hesitant even to make exceptions for all you gay Christians, who, at the end of the day, are fighting a battle on THEIR turf. Organized religion is nonsense. End of story.
Posted by: jmg | Nov 17, 2008 8:18:00 PM
I love Joy, she takes no shit!! Those two preachers were just pathetic... whining about intolerance towards themselves from gay people... YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW YOU FUCKERS! Don't you GET IT???
How can they be surprised that we are speaking up? And you know what? My poster at all the rallies is "No More Mr. Nice Gay!" and I STAND BY THAT! You don't like it, Joe Christian? Well, stop YOUR bigotry, otherwise, get used to me, I will be in your fucking face at EVERY TURN! We need to keep the heat up. More in fact... show these fuckers we are NOT going to back down!
I do agree that it is unacceptable to use the 'N' word on anyone, but I must say I have NEVER heard that anywhere in my circles and I hope it is a VERY isolated incident, as opposed to the churches constantly slandering us. Two wrongs do NOT make a right with that, guys... so if anyone has been using that kind of language, you are pissing on our campaign and progress, so STOP it, already.
Also, I have no racism in my circles, we are as rainbow as you get! I know we can reach out a little better as movement, so we should make more of an effort, however, for the religious intolerants to be trying to use that against us is another pathetic desperate attempt to use whatever straws they can grasp at.
Note to bigots: You WILL lost this battle, give in now, or go down fighting, but you WILL go down!
Posted by: CK | Nov 17, 2008 8:22:26 PM
Completely agree with Alan - Dan Savage is a terrific spokesman [Savage for President 2024?]
Also agree with JMG - organized religion is organized hatemongering and a thinly veiled disguise by power hungry individuals to control masses of people. Think of Jim Jones during this anniversary week.
Don't drink the church wine!
Posted by: Ted | Nov 17, 2008 8:53:50 PM
Dan Savage is the wrong person to be trying to speak out on the wrongs of Prop 8, too divisive, there are posters on this site who are better qualified and far more articulate.
For crying out loud, Joy Behar was better than he was at letting the so called preachers know they were wrong.
Posted by: Jeff | Nov 17, 2008 8:59:59 PM
Once again, the Christians are portraying themselves as the victims. They strip our rights away, and they are the victims. They render us as 2nd class citizens and they are the victims. They call us morally reprehensible, and they are the victims. They call us a threat to society, and they are the victims. We call them out on their bigotry and hypocrisy, and they are the victims.
Well where's a fucking lion pit when you need one?
Posted by: sam | Nov 17, 2008 9:32:14 PM
I noticed that when the preacher mentioned the significant racism that exists within the gay community, Savage ignored it. Perhaps he was afraid that this racist column would be brought up and he was afraid of being seen as the bigot he is.
sorry, Dan Savage is not the leader the gay community needs. Not at all.
Posted by: Not Into Savage | Nov 17, 2008 9:39:07 PM
STOP with all the race baiting... on BOTH sides, for fucks sakes! None of you are right and you are ALL doing damage to OUR cause. Use race on either said and you are not my friend. Get the hell over it and work together, ALL of you or you are not worth working with!
Posted by: CK | Nov 17, 2008 9:55:13 PM
Racism still exists within and outside the gay community. It shows that we are just human like the rest of America. So why not take rights away from the KKK or even the orthodox Jews who don't associate with anyone but their own kind. Dan Savage is right about one thing, I'm tired of being Mr. Nice Gay. I have money as do my friends in their late 30s and early 40s and I promise you that I will do everything in my financial power to help take down the Mormon church. If you are going to discriminate against me, you better be ready for retribution.
Posted by: bk | Nov 17, 2008 10:15:05 PM
I really agree with NOT INTO SAVAGE. I think a major error of the no on prop 8 movement was that it didn't make a substantive effort at engaging the black community. Couple that with what was a divisive and racist backlash post prop 8 and you're giving Rev Jackson all the ammunition he needs to wipe out any coalition building.
His arguments of racism in the gay community come the real and valid critiques from black gay bloggers. You can't ignore that because in doing so, you continue to ignore and alienate people of color within the gay community. In addition, you embolden straight people of color to attack our cause.
Dan Savage, in particular, needs to address this head on. He took down his controversial blog entry on the same day he appeared on Colbert and praised him for recognizing that black gays exist; which was nice. I'm still going to consider him a hegemonic dick until he apologizes though. If Dan Savage admits to the anti-black backlash post prop 8 (http://tinyurl.com/5f7eqw) and acknowledges that it was unfair and wrong, then Rev Jackson will loose his high horse become just another bigoted preacher.
As what is turning into America's go-to-gay, Dan Savage needs to mend this wound not ignore it.
Posted by: Charles | Nov 17, 2008 10:51:15 PM
i am as liberal as the next guy, but when black bigots try to hide behind the very thin veil of religion to rationalize prejudice, i am as offended as when mezcuns support torture and yellow devils try to justify it. i am a gay, mexican-american man. i am twice cursed. however, i will proudly and defiantly defend my family values against all comers.
i changed my dad's diapers in his waning days. i hooked his penis to a catheter numerous times. i unblocked his impactions. i helped my mother make the funeral arrangements. i read and responded to every bill collector who was trying to get blood from a cadaver.
he was a war veteran who never asked for a hand out or a hand up. he had the misfortune of growing up in (and serving) a country that rewards misdeeds and punishes people who do the right thing.
how dare any self-professed x-tian tell me that i am not good enough to chose to marry anyone i want?
Posted by: nic | Nov 17, 2008 10:57:39 PM
I think the fundamental problem with Prop 8 as well as other initiatives within the "gay community" is that the face that is representative of the "community" is always a white male. Gay is not something you can see, so the argument becomes a bit more difficult to make that a white male is oppressed because our society is led to believe that white men are privileged. I think the road may become less difficult when the faces put out there as representatives of gay people are more diverse.
Posted by: Al | Nov 17, 2008 11:31:17 PM
After years of gays being beaten and murdered, our jobs lost, our homes, bars, stores and restaurants vandalized and burned, vicious taunts and our rights stripped away largely because of that hate speech these bigots speak they want to play the victim after a small taste of what we have experienced throughout history.
As said before, you reap what you sow, these "men/women of God" have created this climate of open hostility towards our community, now you have backed us into a corner and until your parishioners are tied to a fence, beaten and left for dead you have absolutely no right to call us more dangerously intolerant than yourselves. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating or condoning violence towards anyone but the idea that they want to hold up examples such as one theater director being asked to resign when the firing of gays from their jobs is perfectly legal (Something that they support because, *gasp* one of their christian book stores might accidently hire a gay person and they want to be able to fire them) and not uncommon is disgusting.
Maybe I'll be inclined to listen to their tales of suffering and discrimination when their children are killing themselves out of fear that their friends and family will find out that they are Christian.
Posted by: John M | Nov 17, 2008 11:42:50 PM
Perfectly stated, Charles. Thank you.
IMHO, Savage is a bigot until he proves otherwise. And it doesn't seem like he's in any hurry to do so.
Posted by: soulbrotha | Nov 18, 2008 12:40:35 AM
Dan Savage is ok, but the gay equality movement needs a charismatic, articulate, bright young gay or pro-gay Christian as a spokesman. This is still a very overwhelmingly Christian nation, and Christian leaders have huge persuasive authority in our society like none other. Dan Savage's secular outlook does not persuade anyone but those who are already pro-gay or stridently secular. Savage lacks credibility with the majority of Americans who are Christians.
Posted by: Jamal | Nov 18, 2008 1:09:48 AM
Dan Savage may mean well, but he needs to get somewhere and sit down. He embodies the type of arrogant prissy white gay male aura that we don't need speaking for us at this time. Put up some pro-gay Bubbas, black dudes, masculine rural/Southern guys, Latino males, women of color, Christians, and Asian people as the face of the gay community. Dan Savage only reinforces the notion that the gay movement is about pushy, whining gay white males.
Posted by: javier | Nov 18, 2008 1:13:47 AM
@javier:
those types of gays never come out!
to parties...or to politics.
can you please bring them outta the woodwork?
i agree. it would be awesome!
Posted by: jpo | Nov 18, 2008 3:58:25 AM
ps--i AM one of those arrogant white whiney assholes :)
and i TOTALLY agree with you!...
Posted by: jpo | Nov 18, 2008 4:02:04 AM
oh, for cripes sake! fags are eating their own over whether to placate idiotic bigots. gosh, heaven forbid that a gay man be well-spoken and white. screw him! we need joe-the-plumber-fag; we need joe-the-dunderhead-fag; we need joe-the-apologetic-fag to carry the torch for us. what the hell is wrong with you people?
Posted by: nic | Nov 18, 2008 4:10:57 AM
see Victoria Secret Fashion show's pictures at
www.entertainroom.com
Posted by: jyotsna | Nov 18, 2008 5:25:15 AM
Nic, what is wrong with them is they are racists and value ignorance. As many have said before put up or shut up. If you want to move the gay rights movement forward you have to COME OUT and WORK.
Dan is a great speaker on gay issues.
Posted by: Bill | Nov 18, 2008 5:49:05 AM
The bottom line is that the religious right and opponents of homosexuality still believe that being gay is a choice, and, as such, that we are choosing some immoral lifestyle, therefore, we have no right to equality. It's a simple as that. Until people change their minds on that, this struggle will continue.
Also, I love how they always play the victim. No matter what they do to us, we're always the bad guy.
Posted by: D.R.H. | Nov 18, 2008 6:58:44 AM
Just to be clear, Dan Savage did NOT remove the post at Slog that caused such an outcry. It's still there.
Posted by: crispy | Nov 18, 2008 8:23:44 AM
No way should Savage be any sort of a "spokesman" for the gay community, he needs to get rid of his issues with race and would never be able to go into communities of color to explain why we deserve our rights, he can't even talk to black gays without his true feelings coming out. We need spokespeople who have a clue, that we can't do this alone and can't go around insulting them in the process.
Like the one poster said, there are posters on this site who could actually speak for the glbt community far better than this guy ever could.
Posted by: Sebastian | Nov 18, 2008 10:16:35 AM
JMJ worte: " I think we REALLY need to be clear that organized religion is utterly useless and quite often dangerous. I am very hesitant even to make exceptions for all you gay Christians, who, at the end of the day, are fighting a battle on THEIR turf. Organized religion is nonsense. End of story."
Your caution of the potential evil of religion can be true; I've seen those harms. But you seem to forget that there's a religious right, center, and left. To not understand that is like thinking there is a singular "gay community" entity.
Regarding fighting battles on "THEIR turf," we've all been "assigned" our place to stand, and if there are those representing LGBT individuals in a place you cannot, what is that to you? That's a very good thing. Having come out of the religious right, I'll be damned if I'm not helping to free other "prisoners of war." All out are in free!
Posted by: KJ | Nov 18, 2008 12:23:39 PM