1. Cj says

    I wish I could state this is a surprise, however from the public knowledge already leaked the Bush I’d be more surprised if ex-Bush administration officials stated Bush did not lie about wire-tapping and other unconstitutional misgivings in the name of terrorism.

    In somewhat related news, did anyone watch Ann Coulter on Dr. Phil yesterday? I tuned in (albeit reluctantly as I did not wish to give any airtime credence to such a repugnant individual) and was stunned that an Oprah produced Dr. Phil would even allow Ann Coulter on his show. The topic was “Obama: Hope vs. Reality”. I do not know who picked the audience members for the taping but from the fact that any time Ann Coulter spoke or even coughed a good portion (or so it seemed) of the audience cheered.

    Ms Coulter stated that, in her very humble opinion, it isn’t both parties who have been aggressively attacking one another “for the past two decades” (as Pres. Obama has stated) but “the other side” that has been aggressively attacking. Now, keep in mind that Ms. Coulter has been on record as referring to Vice Pres. Al Gore and Pres. Bill Clinton as “fags” (Chris Matthews “Hardball” 2007), and certainly in her Joan Collins-esque “books” she has made any inflammatory comments towards “the other side”. I was even more stunned when one woman in the audience during credits pointed this fact out, which Ms Coulter vehemently denied by shouting over the audience member, much to the delight of some audience members.

    Note to Ms. Coulter: it might do you well to step outside of that little box you live in and open your eyes to “reality”. I could list many, many facts from “your side” regarding the truth behind bipartisanship, such as the Republican Right’s need to take away human rights through such discrimination veiled in “law” as Proposition 8, that would clearly demonstrate the vitriol that foams from the mouths of such political pundits as Sean Hannity, but I fear that would be as beneficial as arguing logic to a telephone pole…

    Hears hoping that Dr. Phil follows up with actual political figures who aren’t selling themselves through books and half truths. Dr., you have some s’plaining ta do…

  2. realitythink says

    It’s amazing to me that no one else, besides Rachel Maddow, has even talked about this interview. Nothing at all. It appears to me that, for some reason beyond me, the press is going to give Bush/Cheney a pass on this and everything else. Even after they are gone!!

    They must have a lot of dirt on a lot of people.

  3. says

    Like, DUH!!!
    Bush started a war based on lies, I’m surprised we believed he wouldn’t spy on every single soul in the US.
    Personally I’d have him brought to justice at the International Criminal Court at The Hague for crimes against humanity.

  4. JamesNPhilly says

    I just don’t get it! Why don’t these people speak up when the crimes are being commited? Why is it that when the plane has left Washington, people start to speak up… Where were you when the program was being implemented. I would rather speak up and loose my job then be complacent and do things that I feel are morally and ethically wrong. The past administration simply destroyed any shread of decency that our country had and I’m glad that people are starting to stand up once again for American morals! I just hope that people will finally be comfortable standing up to their convictions and not just going along with they are ordered! Just like in a marriage, “Speak now or forever hold your piece!” Peace :o)

  5. Walker says

    “…was stunned that an Oprah produced Dr. Phil….” wrote CJ –

    Oprah is about Oprah. She is a shallow consumerist that goes from one thing to the next without too much thought. It appears that she is search for answers though in fact she is seeking stimulation. She is taking everyone along for the ride. She is discontent and needy. She cannot acquire enough fame and money.

    What I find most interesting about her endorsement of Obama is that if he is successful in ushering in a new era of capitalism it will be the death of her vapid self serving types, and I will cheer, “God Riddance.”

    (sorry to be off point but CJ’s comment stuck me like a blunt object)

  6. Husky14620 says

    For two years Nancy Pelosi & Harry Reid blocked any investigation into these criminals. Then they gave a free pass to the TelComs who were complicit in these crimes.

    So not only do we need to prosecute the Bushies, but also Pelosi, Reid, and anyone else in Congress who knew about this. Accessory after the fact is about as involved as it gets, and high crimes are high crimes regardless of who commits them.

    And the NEW FISA law needs to be repealed, immediately.

  7. says

    I am 100% behind Husky14620. All politicians who have eviscerated our civil liberties should be prosecuted, regardless of political affiliation.

    This sounds like something that happens in some bullshit banana republic, and is clearly un-American.

  8. Brandon says

    Jamesnphilly: I hear what you are saying. People should speak up. But, the power of situations is often such that people don’t. In the famous Milgram shock experiment, most scientists thought that no one would give the participants that maximum shock. They were very wrong. The experiment has been replicated in various formats around the world with similar results. There’s a book called the Lucifer Effect which I just finished reading which you might find interesting. It explains that situations can make even “normal” people do “evil” things. Given that, it’s easy to see how someone could keep quiet about something like domestic spying. I don’t offer this to excuse this individuals behavior, but only to provide some context as to why he actually stayed silent.

  9. Cj says

    Brandon: I was thinking of just that experiment while reading through the comments. To add to that, for those interested, read the Stanford Prison Experiment conducted by infamous Stanford Professor and Psychologist Dr. Philip Zimbardo:

    “THE MOVIE In 1971, Dr. Philip G. Zimbardo conducted an experiment in which volunteers were placed into a realistic jailhouse scenario and randomly assigned the roles of either guards or prisoners. After six days, Zimbardo was forced to call off the study because all involved, including himself, had grown dangerously attached to their roles.”

    Never underestimate the power of others on the human psyche…

    @Walker: I was more amazed at the gull and absurdity pertaining to Ann Coulter’s comments and certain audience members…

  10. Brandon says

    CJ: LOL! We’re on the same page. Zimbardo wrote the Lucifer Effect. In it he talks about the Stanford Prison Experiment, Guantanamo, etc. It’s TOTALLY changed how I think about things. I always wanted to understand the why of the Holocaust. I wanted to understand how could people sit by and participate in that evil. Now, it’s kind of like at end of the original Planet of the Apes where Dr. Zaius says, “don’t look for it . . . you might not like what you find.” Evil isn’t them. It’s us.

  11. CJ says

    Brandon: lol no kidding. I was a student at Stanford in college and had the pleasure in meeting with Zimbardo. You hit the proverbial nail on the head, we’ve met the enemy, and the enemy is us. This not only applies to extreme situations of power and control, but in everyday life. Mildly stated, how many individuals experience peer pressure? Advertisers know too well the power of social anxiety and acceptance, utilizing psychological tactics and fear in selling products.

    No matter the situation, generally speaking most individuals acquiesce to pressure in hopes of avoiding further discomfort, while some take their role to extremes. In the prison experiment, this was only heightened by the feeling of power and control the “jailers” held over the prisoners. It was frightening how quickly the students began to physically abuse others.

    Life is not black and white, we live in many shades of grey as very few aspects in life are so simple. Our own government placed allies such as Hussein and bin Laden in power to fight communism many decades ago, and as the Stanford Prison experiment, their given power went to their heads. Power and control are very real, it would serve humanity well to realize that good and evil are intrinsic in everyone. The Bush administrations simplistic notions that they are evil and the US is good is faulty at best, which should be apparent from our own governments “evils”. Humility is paramount and necessary in all things, without emotional homeostasis humanity will lose control.

  12. Daniel says

    re: CJ– you don’t want to “give any airtime credence to such a repugnant individual” like Ann Coulter & then unload a whole synopsis of what you watched here on this site. That’s funny as hell, man.

  13. Chris says

    I do not think we will see any prosecutions. Why? Because the Bush administration has repeatedly claimed that this whole program was explained to the congressional intelligence committees and they went along with it.

  14. Paul R says

    I was working for a Middle Eastern government in 2002 when my phone was tapped. It was totally obvious—there were audible clicks, and when I called AT&T for a bill three months after I’d sent a really long fax (so I could bill the client for it), they said my phone number wasn’t registered under my name. Instead they gave me some made up Middle Eastern name. It was bizarre and scary.

    Of course when I told people they thought I was crazy (except my then-boyfriend, who saw it all happen). Then a few years later I got a litany of apologies once the news came out.

    My ex was a programmer, and he was able to see that efforts were made to access my email, too. But he controlled our home network (we worked from home) and was a security expert. The only thing the government achieved was that no one ever paid the bill for a (boring) 100-page fax that cost several hundred dollars…

    Anyway, no one will ever be prosecuted. Certainly not any Democrats.

  15. anon says

    Well, they should investigate this, obviously. However, too many heads would role, so no one’s head is going to role. He needs some solid evidence for his claims too. Apparently he wasn’t involved in the program he is talking about. He just “heard” about it from others.

    The Zimbardo study has long been considered faked or a bit of theater. Zimbardo was out to prove a political point. At the very least, it hasn’t been replicated (supposedly on ethical grounds).

  16. Bob says

    It isn’t just the insiders on this government spying who dragged their heels. I wrote to both Reid and Pelosi, plus my own federal senators encouraging them to pursue impeachment of Bush, Cheney and others for war crimes, and not a one of them had the decency or professionalism of writing me back! Not even a note from an office worker. I’m so disappointed in elected officials who duck when they don’t want to answer a question.

  17. 2nd Class Citizen says

    This will NEVER be discussed on Fox News, since the station helped Bush and the gang with this illegal act. Cowards who use fear to keep people silent. The Dixie Chicks were way ahead of the curve and had to pay a price for admitting the truth. Bush shamed us all.

  18. Cj says

    Daniel, the bug up your ass is even funnier man. I actually watched 5 mins at the end, and as Andy has posted many articles on Ann Coulter, I felt her appearance on Dr. Phil related to this discussion.

    Man, you have some serious issues. Work on that anger a little, and the world will be a better place. Peace out deuce.

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