Comments

  1. says

    The ridiculous aspect of this is that Williamson denies the existence of Nazi gas chambers, something that can be easily verified, while at the same time he fervently believes a bunch of fairy tales and wants everyone else to live their lives based upon the particular fairy tales he believes in.

  2. Will says

    The world will never be free until the last stone from the last church falls on the last priest. Freely, from Emil Zola.

    I was baptized a catholic, but have not been a practicing one since I was 16. However, the church still counts me as one of its members. I think this is the development that will now motivate me to officially resign from the church, so they won’t be allowed to count me anymore. My next google search, how to quit the church.

    Jake, pal, your religion speaks for itself. You can call it what you want, you can protest all you want on how that is not what you believe. The fact is, this is the official position of the church, period. You have no say in it. You still belong to it. I think you should wake up and smell the incense.

  3. mike in manhattan says

    I just don’t understand how anyone of any intelligence at all (like Andrew Sullivan) can continue to adhere to a faith that is operated – and has always operated – by bigots, hypocrites, and lunatics.

    These guys ought to tarred and feathered.

  4. TANK says

    Ha ha, I’d like dash this man’s brains out on a sidewalk, and then deny that it happened. The holocaust is the most documented atrocity in human history. This is just as bad as Ernst Zundel being appointed a bishop, or the institute for historical review getting funded by the vatican.

    However, that this evil crank got pardoned by nazi pope is excellent news, actually. It’s very, very public, and makes it so much easier to condemn god’s vicar and catholicism–even the ones who disagree, yet are still supporting the church through word, deed, and money.

  5. TANK says

    And being catholic follows Sullivan’s career as a professional queer contrarian perfectly. His martyr complex and the obvious stain of personal discomfort is complimented by his defense of his own catholic faith, and also is motivated by making him just interesting enough to not ignore completely as yet another obnoxious pundit, i.e., money.

  6. Colin Gentile says

    He’s right about the exaggeration of the extent of Jewish civilian WWII losses. He’s also right about the gas chambers – none were found on German soil – that’s universally acknowledged fact – and the only question is whether there ever existed authentic ones to inspire the mock-ups on Polish soil.

  7. says

    Frightening. This ridiculous creature gets exonerated but in California, Fr. Geoffrey Farrow, a good man and a good priest, gets suspended and most recently blackballed by church leaders working together to make sure he won’t get a job in their towns. How long before this pitiful shroud of a church crumbles into dust?

  8. Jeff R. says

    Someone please help me! First of all, what’s the meaning of the word “coprophagy?” I got out two dictionaries and can’t find the word! Second, the Pope, a member of Hitler’s Nazi Youth Party, pardons this man who believes that the gas chambers didn’t exist?! And Benedict says that We (gay men) have an “objective disorder?” OMG!

  9. clint says

    I’m not a Catholic, but in Andrew Sullivan’s defense, it’s not exactly like the Rotary Club, and you can’t just resign because you don’t like the new president. Catholicism is not just a religion with an official line, but is a much more complicated phenomenon than that. For many, it is a whole all-encompassing culture that includes many more elements for the good-and for the bad-than a corrupt hierarchy, which of course most parishioners never see, interact with, or care much about. If you’re a Catholic, you wouldn’t stop saying the rosary and novenas just because the Pope pissed you off a few times, and remember, the Pope WILL die one day, but the Church and the bulk of the faith it transmits will remain. Likewise the culture of Catholicism will remain too as a pervasive part of one’s character if you grew up going to mass, RE classes, etc., regardless if you remain on the rolls. All the pronouncements from the throne, in the experiences of most Catholics I know, just barely enter into the orbit of a luminous core that cannot be limited by men in brocade and ermine. Very rarely does a papal decree actually resonate with capital T Truth.
    Also, remember that Andrew Sullivan grew up an English Catholic, so the sense of a people set apart for whom Catholicism is a essential aspect of identity cannot, in that case, be erased by personal distaste or disagreements alone. There’s simply too much history there.

  10. says

    Chilling. He makes Hannibal Lecter seem warm and fuzzy by comparison. The idea that he could be pardoned should seem unfathomable, but so much of what the Catholic hierarchy says and does is unfathomable, somehow it’s not even surprising.

    Colin Gentile (and other crackpots who will inevitably follow), crawl back into your cave of hatred and denial and stay there.

  11. KevinM says

    This is painful. Background: I grew up in the 60s in Catholic school in the Midwest. Very small town near Sioux City. I went on to a wonderful small Catholic college in Minnesota, really really great place. But I cannot accept now that the Church of social justice and understanding has turned into this. I’ve been sort if guarded because I am gay, but this whole new harsh murderousness about the holocaust makes me wonder if i should even try to remain in the fold. One thing for sure, I cannot wait for this damn Nazi pope to die. Sorry, but i really think it would be better for everybody for the asshole to shrivel up and disappear.

  12. scott says

    For anyone who actually watched the video and was upset by his comments about the “evidence”, the Wikipedia entry on the Holocaust is quite extensive in terms of description and documentation for what went on in the gas chambers. Most of the bishop’s claims are directly or indirectly refuted in the article. I’ve posted the excerpt below in case you don’t want to find it in the (very large) article. Of course we all “know” what went on but sometimes a refresher is a good idea.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

    Gas chambers

    At the extermination camps with gas chambers all the prisoners arrived by train. Sometimes entire trainloads were sent straight to the gas chambers, but usually the camp doctor on duty subjected individuals to selections, where a small percentage were deemed fit to work in the slave labor camps; the majority were taken directly from the platforms to a reception area where all their clothes and other possessions were seized by the Nazis to help fund the war. They were then herded naked into the gas chambers. Usually they were told these were showers or delousing chambers, and there were signs outside saying “baths” and “sauna.” They were sometimes given a small piece of soap and a towel so as to avoid panic, and were told to remember where they had put their belongings for the same reason. When they asked for water because they were thirsty after the long journey in the cattle trains, they were told to hurry up, because coffee was waiting for them in the camp, and it was getting cold.[177]

    According to Rudolf Höß, commandant of Auschwitz, bunker 1 held 800 people, and bunker 2 held 1,200.[178] Once the chamber was full, the doors were screwed shut and solid pellets of Zyklon-B were dropped into the chambers through vents in the side walls, releasing toxic HCN, or hydrogen cyanide. Those inside died within 20 minutes; the speed of death depended on how close the inmate was standing to a gas vent, according to Höß, who estimated that about one third of the victims died immediately.[179] Joann Kremer, an SS doctor who oversaw the gassings, testified that: “Shouting and screaming of the victims could be heard through the opening and it was clear that they fought for their lives.”[180] When they were removed, if the chamber had been very congested, as they often were, the victims were found half-squatting, their skin colored pink with red and green spots, some foaming at the mouth or bleeding from the ears.[179]

    The gas was then pumped out, the bodies were removed (which would take up to four hours), gold fillings in their teeth were extracted with pliers by dentist prisoners, and women’s hair was cut.[181] The floor of the gas chamber was cleaned, and the walls whitewashed.[180] The work was done by the Sonderkommando prisoners, Jews who hoped to buy themselves a few extra months of life. In crematoria 1 and 2, the Sonderkommando lived in an attic above the crematoria; in crematoria 3 and 4, they lived inside the gas chambers.[182] When the Sonderkommando had finished with the bodies, the SS conducted spot checks to make sure all the gold had been removed from the victims’ mouths. If a check revealed that gold had been missed, the Sonderkommando prisoner responsible was thrown into the furnace alive as punishment.[183]

    At first, the bodies were buried in deep pits and covered with lime, but between September and November 1942, on the orders of Himmler, they were dug up and burned. In the spring of 1943, new gas chambers and crematoria were built to accommodate the numbers.[184]

  13. Brandon says

    COLIN: Let’s just assume for the sake of argument that you are right and that the number of Jews quoted as having been killed by the Nazis is overestimated. And, let’s also assume that there weren’t any gas chambers. What conclusion should I draw from that? Is it that the Nazis weren’t bad guys? Is it that it was ok to put people in camps and make them wear yellow, pink, or any number of the other color coded triangle variants the Nazis made people wear? Is that the Nazis didn’t murder A LOT of people?

    I think what happened in Nazi Germany was evil regardless of whether the numbers are off or whether people were killed by Zyklon-B or bullets. Should I change that opinion?

  14. Lara says

    What. the. fuck.
    I am too angry to write a more eloquent and elegant answer.
    Jesus fucking Christ.
    I’m glad I realized that I could not consider myself a reasonable, modern thinking woman if I continued to remain a member of the Catholic Church, whose views on everything from gay marriage to abortion I disagree with. Hooray for revelations at 18!

  15. says

    As I have already said on my own blog, the only good thing about the Vatican being on YouTube is that you can ‘Block User’. If only it was that easy to shut him up all the time.

  16. Dave says

    Colin, Colin, Colin tatala (little potato). I’ll bet you think of yourself as being a very rational thinker. I’ll bet you don’t even think of yourself as an antisemite, just pointing out the “facts.”

    Think back to the home you were raised in. When did you first hear that the Jews hated and looked down on other people? That Jews cheated other people? No anti-Jewish talk in your background?

    Of course, I’ll bet you don’t have the balls to tell the truth here.

  17. Sal says

    I’m in a bit of a (theological) quandary here, and I was wondering if Williamson could clear it up for me:

    1) He, along with three others (including Lefebvre) were excommunicated

    2) Lefebvre died will still excommunicated

    3) Unless he recanted before his death (and he certainly didn’t do this publicly), then, according to catholic doctrine, Lefebvre went straight to hell.

    4) But Ben the Sixteenth has since reinstated the surviving members, thus accepting that the church’s original position was wrong.

    5) Has Lefebvre since been moved out of hell, either into purgatory or hell (not limblo, though, because we know JP II actually got rid of that during his pontificate)?

    6) If 5) is right, does that mean that, in about 1,000 years, when the church decides that homosexuality is no longer a mortal sin, we’ll all be moved up to purgatory or heaven?

  18. anon says

    The motivation of the Pope here was to bring back into the fold arch-Catholics who broke with Swiss Bishop Lefebvre a while back. The is alliance building more than anything else, so Williamson’s views hardly mattered.

  19. paklucas says

    So its more important to bring four excommunicated bishops back into the fold than to alienate a whole race of people, (not to mention it is the race that Jesus was a part of and the roots of our own faith). I am not condoning excommunication but I am having a very hard time facing my Jewish friends and still say I believe in the Catholic Church.

  20. says

    BRANDON, you ask fair questions and fairly make the issue one of killing *people in general*, rather than one specific people. The answers to your enumerated questions are, of course, No No & No. However, lies result in violence, even in unexpected ways. If wartime civilian casualties were higher among several nations (as a % or in absolute numbers) than those of Jews, some of whom perpetrated wartime atrocities as Soviet, American or British interrogators and policy-makers, then we have a lot of misplaced guilt, do we not? Moreover, the “moral superiority of the victim” can and does result in a lack of self-critique by the self-styled eternal victim and generates a new round of incredible, monstrous aggression. Witness Gaza today.

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