04/22/2005
Pope Benedict XVI Condemns Gay Marriage in Spain
The new Pope has stormed out of the gate with a highly enlightened statement (not!) from his spokesperson on the gay marriage bill that is breezing through Spain's parliament:
"Roman Catholic officials should be prepared to lose their jobs rather than co-operate with the law."
The legislation has been described by the Vatican as "profoundly iniquitous."
Well, is anyone surprised?
Sphere: Related ContentPosted 9:44 AM EST by Andy in Gay Marriage, Religion | Permalink
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Oh, I'm soooo surprised! I guess it is more important that the 1.6 million children waiting to be adopted or placed in foster homes, wait for a nice heterosexual couple. As Cardinal Ratzinger, he talked about returning to the saying of mass in Latin! I think the pontiff is a bit behind the times all around.
Posted by: Patric | Apr 22, 2005 10:04:45 AM
Fuck the pope!
Posted by: Me | Apr 22, 2005 10:20:51 AM
What gets me is that the Pope doesn't realize there's a difference between religious ceremonies and civil ceremonies. If he doesn't want us to get married in the Catholic Church, fine by me. Fuck him. Marriage by the Catholic Church won't help me out any. But marriage in a civil ceremony could have a number of advantages and the Pope has no jurisdiction over them whatsoever.
So why should the Pope care unless he thinks politicians will start pressuring the Church to perform gay marriage? Isn't that what all this concern is about? Being usurped?
It's all about consolidation of power. Expect to see more of it.
Posted by: Edwardo | Apr 22, 2005 10:26:45 AM
That's true..there's a profound difference between civil and religious marriage. Religious conservatives just can't see that difference, however. Sad.
It says something about his priorities when his first address is about gay marriage and not poverty, the AIDS crisis, the widening North-South gap or anything relevant to the largest constituency of the Catholic Church- those in Africa, Asia and South America..
Way to make the Catholic church irrelevant, eh?
Posted by: WM | Apr 22, 2005 10:30:53 AM
So where are our pope-defenders from the last couple posts?
Posted by: bmw | Apr 22, 2005 10:51:27 AM
Once a Nazi, always a Nazi....
Posted by: cafegogo | Apr 22, 2005 11:16:03 AM
If the population of heaven is made up of these "christians" then I'd rather burn in Hell...sounds like a much better time! Can someone pass the marshmallows? I've got some smores to burn!
Posted by: Wayne | Apr 22, 2005 11:38:36 AM
If the population of heaven is made up of these "christians" then I'd rather burn in Hell...sounds like a much better time! Can someone pass the marshmallows? I've got some smores to burn!
Posted by: Wayne | Apr 22, 2005 11:38:38 AM
Hey Dreadaught, you surprised?
Posted by: BJ | Apr 22, 2005 11:48:02 AM
Nazi is too charged a word to toss around so cavalierly. See the NY Times article of April 21st: "Few See Taint in Service by Pope in Hitler Youth", it offers a view of a few persons with compulsory Nazi pasts and their role in post WW2 Germany. Make no mistake though, I dislike this pope as much as anybody!
Posted by: Timothy Eckert | Apr 22, 2005 11:48:49 AM
Not surprised at all.
Posted by: Jess | Apr 22, 2005 11:48:59 AM
Nazi is too charged a word to toss around so cavalierly. See the NY Times article of April 21st: "Few See Taint in Service by Pope in Hitler Youth", it offers a view of a few persons with compulsory Nazi pasts and their role in post WW2 Germany. Make no mistake though, I dislike this pope as much as anybody!
Posted by: Timothy Eckert | Apr 22, 2005 11:50:37 AM
Yes, Nazi is too charged (perhaps), but so is calling gays "immoral." If he can name-call, so can I. Besides, I wasn't the one in the Hitler Youth Camp...
Posted by: cafegogo | Apr 22, 2005 11:54:23 AM
And didn't Pope John Paul risk his own life in Poland during the war to save the Jews? It seems like he was willing to risk his own life in the face of evil while this pope willingly went along. What about Christian martyrdom? What a real asshole. The Church's decline is going to accelerate with this guy and I couldn't be happier.
Posted by: David | Apr 22, 2005 12:37:20 PM
*passes Wayne some marshmallows*
Nice to be attacked right off the bat, poope. What is it exactly about homosexuality that is SO threatening to the church anyway? Homosexuals have been around much longer than the church.
Anybody...?
Posted by: Greg | Apr 22, 2005 12:54:08 PM
I have no idea, Greg. As Pauline Kael once said about homophobes, "Do they really think heterosexuality can't hold it's own in an open market?" It's truly mystifying...
*passes Wayne the Bible*
Posted by: cafegogo | Apr 22, 2005 1:21:07 PM
oops, my fire's going out...ah, here's this handy bible that Cafegogo gave me...perfect! Smores are Served!!
Posted by: Wayne | Apr 22, 2005 1:34:09 PM
I have many straight friends who think this guy is off his rocker. Even the catholic ones.
If they think he's a "jerk", "dumbass", and too old to be the new pope, then I don't feeling bad in saying the same.
They want to see some modern views in the church as much as I do, for sake of others anyway.
Posted by: Rob | Apr 22, 2005 2:05:17 PM
Apparently Pope Adolph is planning on making a statement telling all Catholic U.S. politicians that if they support abortion rights or gay marriage, they should not be allowed to take Communion. As a non-Catholic, I think this is great. This Pope is going to divide the church so dramatically that this institution of bigotry, hypocrisy, and child molestation will come crashing down. Just about a thousand years too late, unfortunately.
Posted by: Steve | Apr 22, 2005 2:20:48 PM
hi from spain,
the reason i voted zapatero was because he does not feel threatened either by bush or the pope.a real democrat.....ole
Posted by: marcel | Apr 22, 2005 4:18:53 PM
It's great that Benedict 16th does not have a 16th century ideology. He's more of ... 19th century autocrat.
Rod
brotha2Brotha
Posted by: rod | Apr 22, 2005 5:15:35 PM
Well, if he WAS the Emperor he could just shoot us with his dark force energy lightning bolt things.
I guess you just have to make do.
Posted by: david | Apr 22, 2005 7:37:36 PM
In regards to his statement about politicians who support abortion rights not getting communion. It is not something he is going to do, as the defender of faith under John Paul II he said it already, in October of 2004 in reference to John Kerry. It is speculated he cost Kerry significant catholic votes due to his statement. As you can see this man even before becoming Pope had influence over the American Political system.
Posted by: Steve | Apr 23, 2005 12:59:03 AM
Not surprised. Fuck him. And his make believe sky tyrant.
Posted by: Steve | Apr 23, 2005 11:17:39 AM
Not surprised. Fuck him. And his make believe sky tyrant.
Posted by: Steve | Apr 23, 2005 11:17:39 AM
the pope was born on april 6th 1927,hitler took over germany in 1933, by 1939 ALL children were called to join the 'Hitlerjugend',parents refusing to enroll their children were taken into concentration camps.
allow me to say that as americans you haven't lived in a state of dictatorship,to call a child nazi is rather absurd.
ratzinger was a child at that time,like all youngsters he would have to join the 'Heimabend'once a week where they would be fed with nazipropaganda.
the boys felt like scouts,10-14 year olds were taken to the 'jungvolk'whereas 14-18 year olds HAD to join the 'hitlerjugend',girls were taken to the 'bund deutscher maedel'
as a proud gay man,i detest the makings of the vatican,but to call the pope nazi is just not good enough
Posted by: marcel | Apr 23, 2005 7:45:06 PM
I wonder if the church should now support taking children away from parents who divorce and finding a heterosexual married couple to take them in as foster parents and/or adopt them?
Posted by: Patrick | Apr 23, 2005 10:12:33 PM
What else would one expect of a self-admitted alumnus of the Hitler Youth who never passes up an opportunity to 'dis' queer folks? Looking at this from the point of view of reasonableness, though, there is a silver lining of sorts to what this little shit of a Nazi will do whilst in office: his words and deeds will drive many more erstwhile Catholics away from this evil, anti-human, anti-love, anti-life, moribund institution.
If this were ancient Rome, I'd be cheering for the lions.
Posted by: Bill Courson | Apr 25, 2005 5:00:10 PM
I don't care if he was forced to be a Nazi or not. If he admits he did wrong and doesn't do it again I'm fine with it. Now I don't necessarily agree with the Pope in many views especially in those of gay marriage and abortion even though I am Catholic. What you do have to see is that Catholicism is no longer a large influence in advanced society. I think that he's mostly targeting countries in Africa and South America so they don't follow along the same lines as North America. By being stricter and condemning certain acts these lesser developed countries will follow and improve by there being less disease and more education just by influence. I think the Pope is trying to solidify what countries he still has in his power instead of trying to tame a country that has never been and never will be.
Posted by: Micki | Jun 9, 2005 12:57:19 AM
The law is as unnatural as the freaks who are homosexual...
Posted by: md | Jun 22, 2005 5:01:01 PM
The first 16 years of my life were influenced by the Catholic church on a daily basis. I am now 26 years of age and am wondering why we continue to slander, oppress, hate, insult and dictate fascist views when the need isnt there. The Catholic Chuch doesnt change, but time changes the masses. In gods day condoms had not yet been created, but in the eyes of Joseph Ratzinger, we might as well be living in those times. It is convenient to play the figure of hate, i hate blacks, i hate gays, i hate lesbians -i hate i hate i hate. There is nothing religious about that word, its devilish and negative. Religion was made at a time where the believed the earth was round and threw you to the lions for not believing. I firmly believe that religion is indoctrinated beliefs, created and written to control the masses from a higher level. I hear storys that god is all around and he saves. Well, tell that to the old woman that got assaulted or the familys that lost their kids and relatives to murderers, drugs, suicide etc. Where was god then? Dont believe any of it. Christianity, Islam, Sikhism, Budhism, Judhism -its all a pack of man made lies to control you!!!! (in a very appealing way). If god is everywhere and performed miracles then why aint i healed???? tell me
Posted by: Kevin | Jun 25, 2005 9:31:48 PM
‘Religion is the opium of the masses’
Karl Marx
Posted by: Vince | Jun 30, 2005 2:14:00 PM
Biblically homosexual relations are defined as an abomination.
Posted by: Eva | Jul 2, 2005 10:14:17 AM
Biblically homosexual relations are defined as an abomination.
Posted by: Eva | Jul 2, 2005 10:14:26 AM
I am a catholic myself, and I like to congratulate Pope Benedict XVI for condeming gay-marriages. If gays and lesbians have problems with that, then they can either change or they can go to some other church. The liberal media won't try to opposes gay-marriages, then I'm grateful that the vatican is. No more of this fruit-cake and nuts of these so-called gays and lesbians. Gays think they can attack the church with their constant papacy accusations, then gays and lesbians are sinners too.
Posted by: Kevin | Oct 2, 2005 4:31:45 PM
Well, Kevin. For me, Benedict is so wildly off base, that he has made your suggestion of leaving this church a simple matter. For years, one couldn't help but feel a connection, but now, you are right. The church in our lifetime is an immoral and political machine that requires us to be circumspect and separate from its abuse of the power it holds over millions. In the long run, it will most likely change, but in the meantime, the only Christian thing to do is resist it with all one's might.
Posted by: Jim | Nov 24, 2005 11:52:58 AM
Gracias al presidente Zapatero en spain, hoy tenemos mas libertad y derechos, tanto los homeosexuales como heteroxesuales.
Viva la libertad de decidir con quien vivir.
Posted by: Mon | Mar 22, 2006 2:17:35 PM
Let's also not forget that there is a long history of Popes, Bishops and Priests condeming homosexuality as a way of covering up their own homosexuality inclinations. Doesn't anyone else detect a "hint of mint" with this pope? I've spoken to more than one priest who has agreed with this and has reported stories along those lines.
Posted by: Fred | Aug 9, 2006 2:38:11 PM
Let's also not forget that there is a long history of Popes, Bishops and Priests condeming homosexuality as a way of covering up their own homosexuality inclinations. Doesn't anyone else detect a "hint of mint" with this pope? I've spoken to more than one priest who has agreed with this and has reported stories along those lines.
Posted by: Fred | Aug 9, 2006 2:38:46 PM
Let's also not forget that there is a long history of Popes, Bishops and Priests condeming homosexuality as a way of covering up their own homosexuality inclinations. Doesn't anyone else detect a "hint of mint" with this pope? I've spoken to more than one priest who has agreed with this and has reported stories along those lines.
Posted by: Fred | Aug 9, 2006 2:39:04 PM
Let's also not forget that there is a long history of Popes, Bishops and Priests condeming homosexuality as a way of covering up their own homosexuality inclinations. Doesn't anyone else detect a "hint of mint" with this pope? I've spoken to more than one priest who has agreed with this and has reported stories along those lines.
Posted by: Fred | Aug 9, 2006 2:40:29 PM
Men of courage are always few in number but all the more welcome because of the odds against them. The Papacy is nothing if it does not have some minority or other to hate. It is interesting that the Gays are the object of his latest campaign. What is surprising about his venom in this regard is that ,when it is coupled with the Bishops' enormous sympathy for its own pedophiles, it is confusing to hear its shrill and empty moral cry against the 10% of the population that are Gay.
Prime Minister Zapatero cannot be burned at the stake, as yet, but I am sure that the Pope will find some way to make his career short-lived. What matters now is the willingnes of the Spanish people to resist the tyrant and to take unto themselves the power to decide their own moral destinies. Let us not have another moral Inquistion. Oppose Rome with tooth and boot!
Why it shall be difficult for people like Zapetero may be gleaned from the following signals given out by the tyrant and how ,with the astonishing powers of Opus Dei (another invention of Papal Spain, as authentic as the Inquistion itself) to infiltrate and subbvert governments, the Pope will try to cut Spain off from its democratic roots. One thing is sure: Spain cannot expect help or assistance from the slavish Catholic countries in Europe.
There are several ways of finding out what Opus Dei’s current agenda is. You can listen carefully to the Pope or listen to his echo. His echo is to be found in many European states , but , perhaps, the most unquestioning are , Poland and the Republic of Ieland. Now, when these two states come together, as one can imagine, there is no room to discuss anything but the Pontiff’s agenda. Both states are knee deeep in celibate priests and nuns: they are drowned in holy water , nouvenas, chalk statutes and God Blesses. At the top of the pole, however (If you’ll excuse the pun) , are the works of the Opus. Now , these works are the very seriously calculated ploys and stratagems of a dedicated civil service. They are the faciligtators, the executors , of the Pontiff’s message.
So, what is the Pontiff’s message for the Irish and the Polish?
The Polish president (whose ttwin brother happens to be the Prime Minister of Poland) , Lech Kaczynski., told a meeting of the National Forum on Europe in Dublin some days ago, that if "homosexuality were freely promoted as a lifestyle, the human race could disappear". Some uncharitable person suggested that rather than speaking tongue in cheek, the President was was speaking through the back of what passes for his brain. From this ,it can be gathered how uniting he Pontiff’s sentiments can be. Wasn’t it Mr Butigleoni, the Pope’s other friend, who held much he same kind of Caholic sentiment ,when he was nominated for service under the Barusso government?
In any event. it also transpired that for some reason the Germans had already called the Polish twins ‘potato heads’, whereupon Mr David Norris, an Irish gay-Senator, who had been outraged by Mr Kaczynski’s remarks on his kind, took issue with the Germans for devaluing the Irish vegetable. Talk about an international incident: it sounded more like a sketch from Myles na gCopaleen.
To heal the rift in the Agenda the Irish branch on the twig on the bow of the Opus got straight on it. Prime Minister Bertie Ahern called all the religions in Ireland together. He left out Sinn Feinn/IRA ,who were represented by the RC Church. By inaugurating what was called a Church-State forum which, according to the Prime Minister (and the Opus) was "a new and important strand in the civic and political culture of the State", the whole matter was going to be diffused.
Catholic and Anglican prelates were assembled. It was more colourful than the reputed hostings of he pagans in ancient tara. Members of the Reformed and Orthodox Churches were there, even Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Jews, Muslims and Baha'is were present. The music, if such were needed, could have been provided by the members of the Salvation Army who attended. And ,in accordance with Benedict XVII’s Regensburg Lecture on how to be Christian and remain sane, the Humanist Association joined in the celebrations and applauded when the Taoiseach vindicated their role in Ireland's new multi-cultural society.
Ireland is a really changed society. We know this becasue the Irish keep telling themselves and us that they have changed. And whereas we knew that they were a hundred percent Catholic die-hards in the South, with Nazi sympathies, and 100% die-hard Protestant in the North, and devoid of a Nazi or a Catholic sentiment, we don’t quite know where the changes are.
Prime Minister Bertie Ahern , teetering on an election, proclaimed the new body to be the first of its kind ‘to be established in the European Union’. The forum was officially called a "Structured Dialogue with Churches, Faith Communities and Non-confessional bodies". Not only that but the Prime Minister also promised the over organised electorate that in coming weeks, officials at his Department ‘will engage in bilateral talks with the various churches and groups to draw up an agenda for discussion.’ No one can blame the IRISH for not wanting to talk. They have a confessional penchant for talk that is unbeatable even in India.
Some people, a minor few, were actually interested to hear what the Prime Minister had to say that was new, whereupon the Taoiseach roundly denounced ‘illiberal secularist voices’ in democracy. The moment he broached the subject of secularism the more his Holiness’ pet subject began to peal all over Dublin like that infernal Angelus which the National Broadcasting Station RTE uses daily to reduce everyone to a Pavlovian papal response.
"There is a form of aggressive secularism’, continued the Irish Prime Minister, ‘ which would have the State and state institutions ignore the importance of this religious dimension, Such illiberal voices would diminish our democracy. They would deny a crucial dimension of the dignity of every person and their rights to live out their spiritual code within a framework of lawful practice, which is respectful of the dignity and rights of all citizens."
Seamus Breathnach
Dublin
Posted by: Seamus Breathnach | Feb 27, 2007 10:15:48 AM