10/17/2005
Fortunately/Unfortunately
"Let my parents marry!": 300 school age kids come together for gay marriage rally. Source: "Kids as young as 10 years old stood up and told one another how some of their parents had been together for 30 or more years - but had only a fraction of the legal rights of straight couples. "
Students at Provo high school in Utah were asked what they thought about the formation of a gay-straight alliance at the school and the results are fairly dispiriting. A sample: "If they have problems, they can talk about it during lunch or in between classes, or even after school. They shouldn't even freakin' impose on us. I'm tired of the gays."; "They have, like, a sickness. You can't get mad at somebody for being sick."; "I don't agree with being gay or lesbian, but I think it's OK that people want to make them feel accepted, but I wouldn't ever be a part of it."
Posted 3:15 PM EST by Andy in Elsewhere | Permalink
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Granted, those Provo kids live in, according to a recent Newsweek, the most conservative city in the country.
Posted by: JEFF | Oct 17, 2005 3:32:45 PM
I wouldn't be suprised if kids in Provo didn't know what the Internet was.
Mormons are just as bad as, if not worse than, the Christian fundies who are currently trying to turn us into the Theocratic States of America.
Posted by: Tread | Oct 17, 2005 3:52:33 PM
It's not these kids to blame, but their horrible bigot parents for teaching them this nonsense. I get more sad now then angry over this kind of stuff.
Posted by: Ian | Oct 17, 2005 4:11:22 PM
When do you go from blaming parents to high school-aged kids who should be capable enough to start forming their own thoughts? The parents may be complicit, but these kids should be old enough to understand that compassion and understanding are key parts to life.
Then again, I remember when I was in high school. People were at the pinnacle of conceit and not giving a damn.
Posted by: Tread | Oct 17, 2005 4:31:19 PM
Go Provo ! We are sick with the gays. They are everywhere, they want everything ! It's amazing that it's always about THEM! Gay marriage, gay adoption, gay rights, gay pride gay this, gay that, gaytorade wanting MORE MORE MORE!! if you give them the finger, they will ask for a hand; if you give them the hand...horny greedy bastards ! enough !
Posted by: Tristan | Oct 17, 2005 4:51:09 PM
Uhhh, Tristan what planet are you living on? Are you for real? WTF!
Posted by: timothy | Oct 17, 2005 5:34:09 PM
See tristan, this is out it works:
Fuck Provo ! We are sick with the Mormons. They are everywhere, they want everything ! It's amazing that it's always about THEM! Mormon marriage, Mormon adoption, Mormon rights, Mormon pride Mormon this, Mormon that, Mormons wanting MORE MORE MORMAN!! if you give them the finger, they will ask for a hand; if you give them the hand...horny greedy bastards ! enough !
Constitutional Amendment now to Free Utah from the Mormons
We outnumber ya...so you better watch out ;-)
Posted by: PSMike | Oct 17, 2005 5:44:26 PM
Ok ok the Mormons might be greedy bastards but I am not sure I would call them horny.
Posted by: Tristan | Oct 17, 2005 5:50:37 PM
what the hell d'ya think that flap is for on their sacred underwear? ;-)
Posted by: PSMike | Oct 17, 2005 7:04:37 PM
Mormonism is a cult, plain and simple.
Polygamy is just the tip of the ice berg. Like the Amish these people have some serious issues and the government basically turns a blind eye to it under the geise of "religious expression."
Not to mention living in communities so small must lead them vulnerable to having inbred children; perhaps the explination for their highly unarticulate quotes?)
Posted by: Jason | Oct 17, 2005 9:00:05 PM
>>"I don't think that's fair. That's like them signing a petition for us not being able to breakdance."
>>Olga Rouse, 16, Provo High sophomore
Olga's comment may say it best. They still breakdance in Utah. In another twenty years, they may be able to answer this question intelligently.
OTOH, nobody ever said Utah was representative of the rest of the country. It has always been a magnet for those who are ultra-religious, those who are anti-government, or those who are otherwise unable to accept the broader cultural mix of American Society.
Utah seems to be an escape from America for some people. Maybe the fact that their views are so far from the mainstream is a good sign. It means a lot of America's idiots are condensed into one, fairly shallow gene pool.
Posted by: Jay Croce | Oct 17, 2005 10:47:32 PM
Jason,
As a gay man living in Utah with my Mormon family, I think your anti-Mormon comments are about as intelligent as the "unarticulate" quotes you mock.
I rarely see eye-to-eye with the policies, politics, or preaching of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints... but I don't articulate my disagreements by mocking their faith or attempting to belittle them.
The GSA in Provo is desperately needed because of the quotes in the post. It's such a homogenous culture down there that the opportunity to express an alternate point of view to the dominant culture is a rare and much needed piece of news.
Posted by: Jere | Oct 17, 2005 10:59:16 PM
I had the experience of working for a Japanese company headquartered in Tokyo with branch offices throughout the USA. The branch office managers and the stateside attorneys were exclusively Mormon as they all spoke fluent Japanese having done their missionary work in Japan. Sorry Jere, but I must take an opposing view. While the Mormons certainly have the right to their own beliefs, I found them to be the most self righteous, opinionated group of two faced back stabbers I have ever had the displeasure of doing business with. The rigidity of their narrow minded beliefs are pounded into their children from birth. In short, they are brain washed. So I don't find the revelations of intolerance in high school aged kids in Utah surprising whatsoever. They just want to please their parents and the church. I am sure there are limited exceptions but attempting to integrate gay people with Mormons is mission impossible. By the fourth month of my consulting contract I was asked point blank why I never brought a date to social functions. Without hesitation I outed myself as they needed me a lot more than I need them. I was the brunt of their jokes in mixed company for five long years. I laughed in their faces. When we met in Palm Springs frequently, I went out and got a suitable date just to rub it in to the extent possible. Little did they know that that the director of their largest office was a closet case. I found this out one night after dinner in San Francisco when he invited me back to his room. And fortunately, I reported directly to the President of the company in Tokyo so my back was covered. Otherwise I would have been disposed of in very short order as I pulled rank on all of them on the company’s organizational chart. This all occurred in the early 90’s. Since that experience I have let it be known as to my sexual orientation from the outset of any relationship, business or otherwise. This level of prejudice spills over into every aspect of a relationship and it is better to clear the air from the onset.
Posted by: Johnny Lane | Oct 18, 2005 5:10:38 AM
Johnny,
Take exception if you want, but you're stereotyping and you need to ackowledge that. One could just as easily say, after interacting with certain groups of queers working together over a long stretch of time, that we're all shallow, bitchy narcissists who are incapable of long-term relationships. I know I have enough friends who meet that description that I would understand how other people could get the impression that we're all like that.
You don't have to like the LDS Church's official views (Goddess knows I don't), or even the general attitudes these promote, but if we begin stereotyping them as a whole we're just as bad as the "narrow minded" and "brain washed" people with whom you interacted.
There ARE open-minded, liberal and gay-friendly Mormons. They may not be the majority, but they exist. I should know, I'm related to a couple dozen of them.
Posted by: Jere | Oct 18, 2005 10:12:29 AM
I am a gay man living in SLC. I attended BYU in Provo. I lived in Provo after graduating to work for two years. For what it's worth, here are my two cents. This little gem of an article comes from THE most conservative county in the country. The folks in Provo live sheltered, theocracy-driven lives. They live a mere 45 minutes from Salt Lake City, home of the LDS Church but also home to a gay-friendly, activist mayor, who is now being challenged for opening up health care benefits for unmarried partners of city employees and criticized for condemning SLC's backward laws regarding alcohol consumption. In short, they are community who are indoctrinated with the LDS Church's back-handed bigotry, who overwhelming voted for Utah's constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, and whose offspring now, not surprisingly, say that they are "tired of the gays" and believe gay people have "a sickness." Although you won't see Mormons actively spew vitriolic hate speech like most evangelicals, their bigotry is a quiet bigotry--a passive-agressive bigotry, in fact. They show their true colors in business dealings (see Johnny's post), in an off-handed joke, when voting, and, apparently, when asked directly. Although your post left out some of the more even-handed comments made by Provo High students, the rest of the comments leave little hope that Provo will soon make any progress.
Posted by: Brandon | Oct 18, 2005 10:53:45 AM
> ... that we're all shallow, bitchy narcissists
We aren't? News to me.
Posted by: Scott | Oct 18, 2005 12:12:35 PM
When a powerful religious organization uses their pulpits to indoctrinate their children with anti-gay beliefs, that organization and those who willingly take part in it deserve to be ridiculed and called out for the suffering their beliefs incite.
Given the special protections religious organizations enjoy and the level of bizarre irrational superstitious nonsense they promote, I could not care less about offending the sensibilities of religious folk who use the protections and tje nonsense to further supremacist ideologies.
I say, the more Mormons offended the better.
Posted by: Patrick Yaeger | Oct 18, 2005 12:28:07 PM
I too have known Mormons in the past, and to a person they have been kind and friendly to me, and warm and welcoming to my partner. I know, however, that this is the exception to the rule. One can find open minded and wonderful people in even the most conservative of organizations, but the fact remains that the organizations themselves are responsible for a lot of pain and suffering. Any religion you can name is staffed at the top levels by those whose beliefs are most orthodox... one could argue that these people, no matter how wacky and "out there" are simply taking the religion's tenets to their logical conclusion, bringing into question the validity of the religion as a whole (but that's a whole other can of worms). The crux of the matter is that it is up to those kind, thoughtful, reasonable individuals out in the pews to create change within their own organization. Those moderate Mormons that we all know may be great and supportive to us, but if they don't raise their voices and actively support our human and civil rights then they are as culpable as those vitriolic people at the top of the church's food chain. And if they become a little more self-aware of this hypocrisy as a result of being a little offended from time to time, then I'm all for it. Personal growth rarely occurs without a little discomfort.
Posted by: Brian | Oct 18, 2005 1:16:45 PM
You know, I'd be up for a deal. I'll stay right here in San Francisco if all *those* people promise to stay in Provo. I won't go there and they sure as hell won't come here!
Posted by: Matthew | Oct 18, 2005 1:26:41 PM
Brian's comments are right on track. For an enlightening view of "official" LDS doctrine concerning homosexuality, both past and present, visit this site: http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_lds.htm
Posted by: Brandon | Oct 18, 2005 1:29:59 PM
Jere, as I said, "I am sure there are limited exceptions", but please understand that NONE of the Mormons that I interacted with were in the state of Utah. They were spread over 30 states including Hawaii. And many of them were in the Tokyo and Hong Kong offices. In fact, I found one of the most liberal, a younger guy in his mid 20's, 6' 4" hot and blond who enjoyed telling me by phone from Tokyo about his masturbation fantasies. Phone rates were over $5.50 per minute in those days. So yes, there are exceptions and there always will be. It stands to reason that a high school close to the core of the church is going to take a stand based on church values. That is really all I am saying.
Posted by: Johnny Lane | Oct 18, 2005 2:08:36 PM
I think some of the past comments are invalid I happen to know a lot about mormons and the mormon church. I have many friends that accept me and any others. Dont take it out on the mormons just because some of them dont believe in accepting people who are different than them, that is the opposite of what there faith teaches them. In fact the local schools here in Logan Utah (Not too far from Provo) Have a Gay Straight Alliance. Members of certain Church can have different opinions then there church but still be an active member. Maybe the majority of the Mormons dont accept us but that doesnt mean thats the church doctrine. And just to clear up some other things--- Mormons arent Polygamists and they actually do have the internet!----
Posted by: Jake | Oct 19, 2005 6:23:54 PM
I think some of the past comments are invalid I happen to know a lot about mormons and the mormon church. I have many friends that accept me and any others. Dont take it out on the mormons just because some of them dont believe in accepting people who are different than them, that is the opposite of what there faith teaches them. In fact the local schools here in Logan Utah (Not too far from Provo) Have a Gay Straight Alliance. Members of certain Church can have different opinions then there church but still be an active member. Maybe the majority of the Mormons dont accept us but that doesnt mean thats the church doctrine. And just to clear up some other things--- Mormons arent Polygamists and they actually do have the internet!----
Posted by: Jake | Oct 19, 2005 6:25:15 PM
You may have the Internet, but you sure don't know how it works.
Thanks for the double post.
Posted by: Tread | Oct 19, 2005 7:27:16 PM
Get your "Fuck Provo" shirts here...
http://www.cafepress.com/fprovo
Posted by: Paul | Jan 27, 2006 12:51:33 PM
All i was wondering is how do you explain to a 9 year old boy that his father is gay?
I am having a real problem trying to find resourses on how to explain this to him his dad is threating to tell him. I think he is too young but my ex husband is insisting because he thinks that telling him now would get my son to accept him and be ok with him being gay? What can I do please help.
Posted by: Margaret Reeves | Apr 17, 2006 7:05:45 PM