California | Gay Marriage | News

Prop 8 Foes Refusing to Concede

Here's the latest in the Prop 8 battle:

"Kate Kendall, executive director of the National Center for Lesbian Rights, said 3 million to 4 million ballots remain uncounted statewide. 'The fact is depending on the turnout model we are looking at millions of votes yet to be counted,' Kendall said. 'The race is too close to call. People's fundamental rights hang in the balance.' Secretary of State Debra Bowen is expected to issue an estimate of the number of uncounted ballots late today or Thursday. It could take days to process all of them. Proposition 8 supporters declared victory early today, saying their model shows them with an insurmountable lead. Proposition 8, the most passionately debated and costliest measure on the ballot, was ahead 52 percent to 48 percent with 92 percent of precincts reporting."

Noon8Karen Ocamb reports to us on a conference call that happened earlier this morning:

"In a hastily called conference call at around 9:00am with reporters that lasted about ten minutes - Geoff Kors and Kate Kendell said they are waiting for outstanding absentee and provisional ballots to be counted. They estimate between 3-4 million outstanding, it depends on voter turnout. LA Times has the vote at 95.4% precincts reporting - Yes = 5,163,908 or 52% of the vote to No = 4,760,336 or 48%. I asked about where those ballots are expected to fall, since last night everyone said absentee ballots tend to be older, conservative voters from smaller counties. Kate and Geoff both said that's true, but they said LATE filing absentee folks - such as themselves, tend to be progressive and new voters tend to ask for Provisional ballots. They are waiting until the Secretary of State certifies the results - maybe later today, probably tomorrow, before making further comment on what they intend to do. Kendell said 'its going to be a bumpy ride.'"

Lawsuit planned.

And another.

This is far from over.

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  1. Let's hope for some sort of miracle here, folks -- it's depressing to learn that people are more concerned about the well-being of the chickens that wind up on their dinner plates than for our civil rights. But maybe I shouldn't be surprised by this.

    Posted by: John | Nov 5, 2008 1:10:53 PM

  2. I have so much respect for the people doing this work.

    Me, I'm just filled with a deep bitterness this morning. I wish I could rise above it, but I can't. To have the United States triumph over bigotry on the same night that it reaffirms its bigotry against us ... it hurts pretty bad.

    Posted by: Distingué Traces | Nov 5, 2008 1:14:07 PM

  3. With a 400,000 vote margin?

    I don't think it is helpful to string people along on false hope. If this were similar to Bush v. Gore in 2000, and we're talking about a few thousand votes, then we should fight it all the way to the Supreme Court.

    But this is a 4% spread. Come on now.

    Perhaps they should use their resources to gather the 1,000,000 signatures needed to force another election. And if that fails, then do it again. And again.

    If the religious right has proven anything, it is that persistence pays off. They've put that parental notification initiative on the ballot for FOUR straight elections now. It keeps on losing, but they keep on doing it.

    Posted by: John in CA | Nov 5, 2008 1:17:58 PM

  4. There is a press conference today at noon to announce a new lawsuit being filed by Robin Tyler and Diane Olson, the first same sex couple to wed last summer in LA. I heard Tyler speak at Bakersfield Gay Pride so I have a good idea of what they are going to do. I am thinking of going to the press conference as it's going to be a big deal I think. The lawsuit is said to use a "controversial" approach to fighting prop 8.

    Posted by: Devin Tait | Nov 5, 2008 1:19:03 PM

  5. Married gay tax paying citizens now have "standing" in the courts to file lawsuits regarding removal of their fundamental rights.

    The first lawsuit will be filed this afternoon.


    Posted by: Godfrey | Nov 5, 2008 1:19:11 PM

  6. It's just the reality on the ground, unfortunately. There is still so much animus toward gays in America, and that's OK with a lot of people.

    Oh well.

    Posted by: MIke | Nov 5, 2008 1:20:13 PM

  7. I just emailed the LA TIMES and told them to update their headline which state Prop 8 won. Lets hope and pray people!

    Posted by: Zephyr | Nov 5, 2008 1:21:07 PM

  8. Don't throw in the towel yet - look at the results posted on the LA Vote website. We need to wait until all the absentee ballots are cast:

    There's still a chance.

    Posted by: Phillip Hoffman | Nov 5, 2008 1:22:03 PM

  9. There will be a sign on the front of my house from now until a very long time: Mormons not welcome here.

    Please join me, and let's let them feel what hate is like.

    Posted by: Kyle | Nov 5, 2008 1:22:15 PM

  10. We lost it. Those ballots that haven't been counted will not be nearly enough to change things. Now all we have to do is hope the courts overturn this horrible, bigoted thing and everyone (gay and straight) must stand up to religious bigotry and turn out backs on those who refuse to support us. There is only so much educating one can do before we have to see who turn our backs on the bigots of this country and urge everyone else to do so.

    Posted by: Jason D | Nov 5, 2008 1:22:28 PM

  11. Don't throw in the towel yet - look at the results posted on the LA Vote website. We need to wait until all the absentee ballots are cast:

    There's still a chance.

    Posted by: Phillip Hoffman | Nov 5, 2008 1:23:04 PM

  12. They need to start thinking about using whatever momentum they got from this close outcome. Namely, 2012, and placing an amendment to appeal Prop 8. If they spend the next 4 years focused on grassroot efforts in red areas of CA, into Latino and black communities, etc plus the dying off of some of the older voters and the demographics of the young community should help them. They need to rethink the gay ghetto+natural straight allies strategy. Again,I point to Obama's 2008 strategy when compared to Kerry's of 2004. Obama utilized his community organizing background on a national scale. Similarly here they need to think like community organizers on a state scale. This is doable in 4 years.

    Posted by: akaison | Nov 5, 2008 1:23:07 PM

  13. The huge rainbow flag that adorns The Castro is flown half-staff today. I'm useless right now because I'm so upset. I feel like I worked so hard to defeat Prop 8 and am now questioning if I could have done more or donated more. I think I just need time to mourn for a bit.

    I too have so much respect for people doing this.

    Posted by: willy | Nov 5, 2008 1:24:32 PM

  14. Why the hell do you all keep bringing the poor tortured animals into this? Why not mention the other amendments that passed?

    Really, its sad to see people so bitter at a really great thing: a stand against animal torture.

    I want Prop 8 to fail as much as anyone, but I would rather not be able to marry than not protect disgustingly abused animals with no quality of life whatsoever.

    Stop taking it out on the damn chickens, they didn't vote against us, they didn't fail us like so much of the gay community, they didn't do a damn thing regarding Prop 8 so wtf.

    Posted by: Wes | Nov 5, 2008 1:26:54 PM

  15. That photo says it all, doesn't it? Just crushing.

    Posted by: Scott B. | Nov 5, 2008 1:27:31 PM


    Was someone lying int he exit polls yesterday? Assuming that the African American numbers are true, some white voters and/or Latino voters weren't telling pollsters the truth. Why? Because the exit polling had Prop 8 losing by 4 percent.

    Posted by: akaison | Nov 5, 2008 1:27:32 PM

  17. i'm shocked that LA county was evenly split...what a travesty! LA county disappointed...

    Posted by: J | Nov 5, 2008 1:31:37 PM

  18. I suspect many people who voted that were not clear on what PROP 8 is, voted YES thinking "YES! I support gay marriage." It's a terrible and obvious oversight.

    Posted by: andy | Nov 5, 2008 1:34:02 PM

  19. John in CA, I'm with you. Keep fighting. Keep petitioning. Wear those *ssholes out. Keep educating. Keep talking about it. Keep those bigots feet to the fire. Petition the government for redress. This was a victory for the forces of reaction, for the utter and pure hatred that evangelicals have for gays and lesbians. Yes, it is hatred! And it is time to STOP being fair with those people. Throw black paint on their churches. Clog their phone lines. Send them mass mailings calling them out on their bigotry. Enlist those scholars who can dispute wing-nut evangelicals' interpretations that the bible condones this vile hatred towards gays and lesbians (it does not!). Take the fight to them. Fight them. Go to their "prayer-thons" and let them know we are everywhere. Protest, protest and protest again. Even Obama needs to be bitch-slapped with his "I'm for civil unions but against gay marriage because I am a christian" bullsh*t. Enough is g*ddam enough! I have lived my entire life watching this fundamentalist filth, this evangelical effluvia make me the enemy in my own land. I will not tolerate it anymore. Fight! Fight! Fight!

    Posted by: mike | Nov 5, 2008 1:36:21 PM

  20. But didn't the wording clearly say "eliminate the right of same sex couples to marry" or something along those lines?

    I don't see how many people could have gotten confused unless they were being really, really careless.

    Posted by: Wes | Nov 5, 2008 1:36:25 PM

  21. Philip H: I think that's just the vote for LA, not statewide

    Posted by: jasper | Nov 5, 2008 1:40:00 PM

  22. Discrimination is such a horrible beast. It hurts and demeans people, and gives others some sense of satisfaction. I am so sorry for the thousands of couples that are now told once again "you are a second-class citizen."

    Screw the LDS and their hypocritical hate. And for the 'it's about traditional marriage'-it's a civil license, not demands to use your churches or children. And why just a 'simple majority'? The US Constitution requires 2/3 of the States to incorporate it. Even in Florida (which also lost) it takes 60% to make discriminational changes.

    It brings me to tears to think of how so many couples woke up this morning to 'you two are worthless in the eyes of a slight majority of voting people.' Hopefully we can change things now in NY.

    I did what I could to help from across the country, but there are limits to a person that is disabled.

    Posted by: Gary | Nov 5, 2008 1:40:34 PM

  23. Just think about how many people in CA must have voted Yes on 8 and then celebrated tearfully at Obama's words that all things are possible in America.
    It proves something that should not be a surprise to anyone. The 'we' in 'Yes we can' doesn't include everyone.

    Posted by: mimi | Nov 5, 2008 1:42:31 PM

  24. initial exit polling had prop 8 down by 4% but that was with about 1,000 respondents. the final exit poll results had 2,240 and the results were nearly 50-50 but leaning toward prop 8

    Posted by: alex in sf | Nov 5, 2008 1:43:43 PM

  25. I am so fucking sick of the US religious movement's attempts to thrust their superstitions upon everyone. You have the freedom to practice your religion, you do not have the right to impose your religion.

    I hate religion with all of my might. How anyone could buy into that load of bigoted racist, bullshit is beyond me. But I would NEVER attempt to stop anyone from practicing their beliefs in their homes and churches. But it has no place in our government.

    If the true desire is to preserve the "sanctity of marriage" then we damn sure better be removing the right of divorce from the books as well!

    Posted by: Lars | Nov 5, 2008 1:44:39 PM

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