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Report from West Hollywood: November 5 Anti-Prop 8 Rally

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Three lawsuits have been filed opposing the passage of Proposition 8.

Last night we showed I showed you our reader Joe's photos from San Francisco. This morning, our reader Peter files this extended report (w some iphone photos) of the rally that happened last night over Prop 8 in West Hollywood:

Weho2The rally in West Hollywood began at 7:00 PM at the corner of San Vicente and Santa Monica Boulevard. Initially, crowds were contained on the sidewalks, but the crowd soon seemed to break through one of the barricades and spill into the streets. The West Hollywood Sheriff's Department immediately shut down Santa Monica Boulevard and San Vicente Boulevard diverting traffic away from the intersection. The crowd stayed in the middle of the intersection for at least 30 minutes. There were chants of "No On 8!" and "Equality! Equality! Equality!" and of course "Yes, we can! Yes, we can! Yes, we can!"

Eventually, the crowd began to drift toward a stage set up on San Vicente just south of Santa Monica Boulevard. Lorri L. Jean, the director of the L.A. Gay and Lesbian Center welcomed the crowd. She said that the CA Secretary of State's Office has not confirmed the outcome of Prop 8 due to the fact that millions of provisional and absentee ballots still have not been counted. Lorri Jean cautioned against false hope, however, saying that the chances of victory for us are very, very slim.

Lorrijean
Lorri Jean and friend.

Weho3On the stage with Lorri Jean were West Hollywood Mayor Jeffrey Prang (who looked tearful at times), Mayor Pro Tempore Abbe Land, Councilmember John Duran, Councilmember Sal Guarriello, California State Representative Mike Feuer, members of supportive clergy from West Hollywood.

Councilmember Duran, whose voice was hoarse and who said he had gotten out of bed to attend the rally, gave a speech in which he described his happiness upon hearing that Barack Obama had been elected U.S. President, his disappointment when he learned Prop 8 seemed likely to pass and his feeling of crushing sadness when he learned that Black residents of California had voted against us in large numbers. Councilmember Duran, a Latino, stated that on election night Latino men were reported to have driven up and down Santa Monica Boulevard in West Hollywood holding signs that said "Faggot" and "Queer". Duran then discussed the fact that while many people of color voted for Prop 8, there were also many, many people of color who had voted against it. He cautioned the crowd to avoid making assumptions, based on someone's skin color, about whether or not that person is supportive of the GLBT community.

WandaDuran then segued into a plea for the GLBT community to reach out to other minority communities to create understanding and acceptance. He called for all minority groups to band together to fight oppression saying, "If you are asking me to fight for you because you are Black or Latino or Asian, you must fight for me as well." He closed saying that it is pointless for minority groups to play the game of comparing suffering saying that "There is no winner in the game of who is on the bottom rung of the ladder."

There were speeches from Jeffrey Prang, Abbe Land and others.

Lorri Jean, whose maternal side of the family was Mormon, reported that the Mormon Church gave anywhere from 45-77% of the donations to Yes On Prop 8. She invited the crowd to join her at at the Mormon Temple on Santa Monica Boulevard (at Selbee) at 2:00 PM on Thursday for a meeting with the Mormons and a press conference. She stated that more details could be found on the website for the Los Angeles Gay And Lesbian Center. It should be a fun filled afternoon!

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Following the speeches, members of the MCC Church led the crowd in singing "We Are Gentle Angry People And We Are Singing For Our Lives".

Some people in the crowd then marched spontaneously, and peacefully, toward the intersection of Sunset Boulevard and Highland in Hollywood. The crowd snarled traffic along the way. According to friends who marched to Hollywood, people stuck in traffic due to the march were generally supportive of the protestors. Once the crowd reached Hollywood and Highland, they were met with a barricade of L.A.P.D. in riot gear. The crowd began to chant "Let us through! Let us through!", but the police remained in place.

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Eventually, three, or possibly four, younger guys in the crowd pushed their way over the police barricades. One of the men was reported to have jumped on top of a police car. Witnesses told me the police began to beat the men with their truncheons. Eventually, the men were arrested and the crowd began to march back to West Hollywood where the protest continued well past midnight.

A bunch more photos, AFTER THE JUMP...

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Also, indiewire has a nice report...

As does Boi from Troy...

As does The L.A. Weekly...

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Comments

  1. the "i will never give up" boy is hawt

    Posted by: Lance | Nov 6, 2008 8:25:30 AM


  2. The back of that guy's t-shirt, is part of the problem.

    Posted by: JAYDUB | Nov 6, 2008 8:26:13 AM


  3. Although I remain ecstatic about Obama's historic triumph, I am now beyond crushing sadness at the passage of Prop 8 and well into barely controlled fury.

    How did this happen? How could this campaign be so utterly mis-managed? On what was all that money wasted? I am currently unemployed but gave significant contributions out of my need, not my excess. How could those ads be so ineffective, unprofessional, and unpersuasive. Were they produced exclusively by straight men?

    The political apathy and naivitee of the California queens is astounding. How could Black churches align with the cross-issue bigots in the Mormon church? Blacks were not even allowed to become members of the LDS "religion" until someone had a "vision" in the 1970s!

    The so-called 'leadership' of No on 8 has a great deal for which they must answer.

    Posted by: rudy | Nov 6, 2008 8:38:35 AM


  4. Go suck Mark Buse's dick, "Jaydub"!

    Your problemm, Rudy, and that of so many others in the HRC and NLGTF leper colony, is that you equate money with moral fervor and the power that prceeds from it. The ads were awful, but MUCH worse was the fact that no one was put in place to debate these motherfuckers!

    "The so-called 'leadership' of No on 8 has a great deal for which they must answer."

    SING OUT LOUISE!!!!

    OUT OF THE SUITES AND INTO THE STREETS!!!!!!

    Posted by: David Ehrenstein | Nov 6, 2008 8:57:17 AM


  5. Wednesday, the LDS church released a comment about the measure's passing:

    "Allegations of bigotry or persecution made against the Church were and are simply wrong. The Church's opposition to same-sex marriage neither constitutes nor condones any kind of hostility toward gays and lesbians."

    The Mormon Church also said they do not object to "the right for same-sex couples regarding hospitalization and medical care, fair housing and employment rights, or probate rights, so long as these do not infringe on the integrity of the traditional family or the constitutional rights of churches."

    They also said that some people have mistaken their involvement in moral issues for being involved in politics: "In fact, churches and religious organizations are well within their constitutional rights to speak out and be engaged in the many moral and ethical problems facing society. While the Church does not endorse candidates or platforms, it does reserve the right to speak out on important issues."

    My level of contempt for LDS and for that matter the Catholic Church is beyond words. While it maybe somewhat cathartic to picket and demonstrate against them - that isn't where the battle will be won.

    Going forward, I think we do the court cases and see how the state Supreme Court rules. We don't take it to the Federal level now. We will lose if we do.

    I think the approach of getting the state completely out of the marriage business is maybe the best approach now. Here is how I understand that approach:

    1. Marriage in California is between a man and a woman.

    2. That statement conflicts with the state equal protection clause.

    3. Since gays can no longer "marry", no one can marry - so all we now have in California is "domestic partnerships".

    4. California law is changed to recognize all out of state marriages as "domestic partnerships"
    5. If you want to get "married" fine - but that is done by the church of your choice. California doesn't do marriages. If you want a contract with your spouse it is a "domestic partnership".

    6. Now, other states and the federal government will need to either recognize "domestic partnerships" as marriage in their jurisdictions or create the same legal contract.

    7. The wingnuts can't put a proposition on the ballot again for "marriage" because it isn't banned. California would consider it to be a "religious union" and since we have separation of church and state, the state doesn't sanction.

    8. The wingnuts are then "stuck". They have painted themselves into a corner, and we have effectively used their arguments against them. "Marriage is a religious definition". If your church wants to only marry straights, fine. But many churches also will marry gays. They will hate it, because they now will be fighting other religious groups and the argument is moved out of the business of government.

    9. I believe this is the game plan of the Gloria Allred lawsuit... and the more I think about it, the more I like it. Everyone is equal. We defuse the religious argument. I noticed on the NO on 8 commercial with the Ugly Betty cast, that they mentioned "Civil Marriage". I thought that was kind of odd... but what the NO on 8 folks were saying was this wasn't "Religious Marriage". We will eventually win the "Marriage" argument - but the otherside will be kicking and screaming all the way. I think this approach now is the best of both worlds. Even Barack Obama says he is against "gay marriage" but for "civil unions". I think this is his approach also. If we can do this in California, get the state finally out of the "Marriage" business, I think we can get this done Nationwide alot quicker.

    What do you guys think? What are the holes in this argument. I've been thinking about it, and think it is the perfect end run... but I must be forgetting something.

    Posted by: Mike | Nov 6, 2008 9:27:38 AM


  6. Here's an interesting story, Robin Tyler says the no on 8 ads hurt the campaign, that they didn't feature actual gay couples just celebrities...

    http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20081105/gaymarriage_couple_081106/20081106?hub=World

    Posted by: the countess de gooch | Nov 6, 2008 9:33:04 AM


  7. While the black community did not allow Proposition to pass, it is not racist to point out that the community voted overwhelmingly in favor of it. Clearly, many black people (religious ones mostly) do not see a connection between their community and the gay one. I do not want to enter the “Oppression Olympics” with anyone, but please keep in mind that people discriminated against for skin color or religion often have their family as a support group to rely on. Many gay people are rejected by those who theoretically should be showing them unconditional love.

    Some comments from the LA Times website (commenters not all black):

    “As to the comments by LJS and others who believe that somehow Gays are somehow in the same boat as blacks and others who were Wear there minority status on their skin and therefore blacks should be sympathetic to their case, I must take inception! It is NOT the same! Try as you might you can not look at a gay person and say with all certainty that person is gay, But you CAN look at a black person and KNOW they are Black! We did not choose the color of our skin or our ethnicity. Frankly I find the assumed similarity very insulting.
    Stop complaining about the debased choices you have made for yourself, just because they are your choices doesn't mean the rest of the world has to agree with you. We just dont want your choices influencing our children.”

    “Being gay and being black are not the same For some of us it is an issue of religion and cannot get past the point that acts of homosexuality are seen as unGodly by most. I would hire a gay person, live in the same block go to the same stores and schools with no issues. But do not ask me to make your sexual preference valid, that is the difference. The union of two men and two women is fine, just do not ask to make it a legal thing or compare it to racism. That is when you loose me. Hell a gay white man always was in front of me when it came to the picking order in America”

    “You hypocrites can't have it both ways!
    By the way, stop putting the homosexuals on the same civil rights stage as being a racial or gender minority! Nowhere in the Bible does God say that being black, Hispanic, a woman, etc is an "abomination", "unnatural", or "indecent".
    Most workplaces give the same benefits/perks to same-sex domestic partnerships anyway, so what's all the fuss about?”
    “I'm not African-American, but how can you compare what Homosexuals are going through to what African-Americans went through (and to a certain extent, still going through).
    -Homosexuals were never forced to come to an unknown land
    -Homosexuals were never forced to do slave labor
    -Homosexuals never experienced going to seperate bathrooms or other facilities
    -Homosexuals were never waterhosed
    -Homosexuals were never denied to vote
    So spare me the, "how can African-Americans not understand what we're going through?" crap. I doubt MLK, Malcolm X and any other civil rights leader would've approved of this.”

    Posted by: lorenzo | Nov 6, 2008 9:39:27 AM


  8. Andy,

    Have you posted Max Blumenthal's report on the organizer of Prop 8? I don't see the video:

    http://maxblumenthal.com/2008/11/the-mystery-man-behind-prop-8/

    Rudy,

    As I read different blogs around the 'Net, like Americablog, I continue to be appalled by the racially charged comments blaming African-Americans for the failure to stop 8. Blaming 10% of the electorate and not looking at the other 90% is wrong and hypocritically bigoted scapegoating.

    How many gays and lesbians were involved in the fight against 8? Who led the opposition? There were endless pleas for money but how much of that was used for out reach programs?

    What seems to be happening is that people who were complacent and did nothing are now shocked that they lost. What efforts did the organizers make to tap into the existing networks of other campaigns?

    Both Joe Biden and Barack Obama spoke out against 8. Did anyone in the No on 8 campaign bother to go to the Obama Campaign that was highly organized and ask for assistance? Did the organizers talk to the Obama campaign management for ideas?

    Ten percent of the electorate are gay people. Right? Why didn't their votes cancel out the supposed 70% of the African-American voters? Could it be that a lot of gay voters didn't bother to show up at the polls? How many of those voters didn't bother to vote for 8 because they are gay Republicans?

    Hmmm...? Where was the outreach program to Latinos and African-Americans? What about the lack of coverage of those African-American church ministers that did try to organize in opposition to Prop 8? Why didn't the No on 8 leaders get African-American governors Deval Patrick or James Patterson involved? Both have been strong supporters of gay marriage in Massachusetts and New York, respectively.

    BTW, what the hell about the other 2 gay marriage bans around the country? Who funded those? Who supervised those? Oh, yeah, white people.

    Nice case of amnesia and blame the minorities.

    Pathetic.

    In all of the pictures shown in the media of the supporters of Prop 8 jumping up and down, aren't all the celebrants white? Where is the fury against LDS? The white Mormons funded this campaign and the white Evangelicals started the campaign.

    http://maxblumenthal.com/2008/11/the-mystery-man-behind-prop-8/

    How many gay Californias didn't bother to show up at the polls yesterday? Thirty-percent of gays voted for John McCain, a man who supported Prop 8.

    Finally, had whites not voted for Arnold Schwarzenegger, efforts by the California legislature to pass marriage laws would have succeeded years ago. But Arnold, being Arnold, vetoed every legislative attempt. 63% of whites voted for Arnold.


    Posted by: noah | Nov 6, 2008 9:51:59 AM


  9. There is no such thing as a black gay.
    Exit polls are accurate sources of information.
    California was a battleground state.
    Every gay person voted 'No' on Prop 8.
    Every gay person voted.
    Every liberal voted.
    Apathy doesn't exist.
    "No on Prop 8" was a well-run, well-funded campaign.
    "Yes on Prop 8" was a horrendously-run, underfunded campaign.
    The passage of Prop 8 is the end of life as we know it.
    There were never any setbacks in other movements.

    ...
    ...

    Posted by: ... | Nov 6, 2008 10:11:06 AM


  10. I was there. There were 10,000 angry people roaming the streets and that isn't going to stop.

    Posted by: Chris | Nov 6, 2008 10:14:19 AM


  11. Ok, this is totally off the point, but would these fags stop doing faux-hawks and putting some product on their hands and pulling their hair up into some freaky bed-head clone "hairstyle?" It's O-U-T guys - get a real hairstyle!

    Posted by: Me | Nov 6, 2008 10:20:51 AM


  12. There is another important story in last night's march: the level and intensity of the participation by younger people (say, up to their mid 20s). I did the the whole march from Weho to Hollywood and back (a bit over nine miles, by my reckoning) and was consistently struck by who was out there. Principally, it was not those of us of the generation(s) from which most of the recent married couples came, but a younger generation that has grown up and come out with greater levels of visibility and equality--and which seems particularly affronted and incredulous that equal rights could be taken away from one day to the next. These are people who were too young to have participated in the marches and demonstrations regarding AIDS-related issues and those surrounding employment anti-discrimination. They are shaken and motivated by a different issue, one in which their personal stake is still a hypothetical marriage, probably in most cases to a person they have not yet met.

    I had noticed during the campaign itself a high number of younger people on the phone and holding signs, but last night brought it home in a way that was unmistakable. The future of this particular cause and this fight really will owe very much to generational change and the votes of these individuals (gay and straight) who have not seem some of the inequalities that some of the rest of us did at that age.

    The challenge that the existing "leadership" or the existing establishment of the gay communities will be to hear and include these voices and to impart knowledge without either preaching or stifling this energy. It is notable that the crowd broke away and started marching while the speeches were still going on. The leadership of the recent campaign must understand that, given its failure, its ability to hold the attention and control the actions of the people who care about this issue has been severely curtailed.

    In my great sadness over the outcome of the Prop 8 fight, this younger, newer energy gives me genuine hope.

    Posted by: Gianpiero | Nov 6, 2008 10:30:37 AM


  13. Mike -
    Bingo! You are dead on. Maybe folks will finally realize mainstream society is not going to yield on what they consider "marriage" (i.e. religious connotations).

    I totally agree we should work to strip the legal rights from "marriage" for all - I don't care what anyone does in their church.

    We'll see if the "leaders" in the gay community finally get this realization.

    Posted by: ATLSteve | Nov 6, 2008 10:32:25 AM


  14. I wonder when the California State Tax Franchise Board goes after every single Mormon "Temple", every single so-called Church, and every other religious institution that used Church property and abused their Tax Free Status to support this POLITICAL abomination?

    The right-wing wackos have no right to use tax free $$$ to support their hate and ignorance. I hope the state sues the hell out of the cult of Mormons. But I won't be holding my breath.

    But what I am going to do is boycott any and ALL business that sent in $$$ to these Pro-Hate 8.

    Mormons coming to my door to recruit me into your cult? Fuck you!

    Marriott Hotel? Kiss off!

    And if I noticed some Pro-Hate 8 stickers on your business front ya bastards, screw you too! You are not going to get any of MY Money to support your ignorant, bigoted self.

    I know you haters and I know where you live and work. The signs on your lawn and windows give you away.

    BTW: Who was actually in charge of the No to 8 Campaign?

    Posted by: Mike | Nov 6, 2008 10:40:40 AM


  15. RACISM

    Keeping harping on one race when you know it was multiple races that passed Prop 8. 6 percent is never going to add up alone to 52 percent


    NON RACIST

    We need to actually talk to the black community because we haven't done that like ever. Indeed, we have ghettoized our issues rather than building coalitions. As people are saying the Milk movie is important, if for no other reasons that it actually tries to point out where the gay movement went wrong. That was 30 years ago.

    Posted by: akaison | Nov 6, 2008 10:53:07 AM


  16. wanda sykes is so good to us. she's become one of my favorite people in the world.

    Posted by: wow | Nov 6, 2008 10:53:50 AM


  17. This whole misguided rally typifies why YES ON 8 passed... and the leanings of the black community ARE NOT THE ISSUE - once again, anyone that knew what the hell they were doing would have worked around that and still succeeded.

    63% of Californians voted for civil rights for farm animals. Living conditions, quality of life, and health standards are now the right of every chicken, pig, cow, and sheep in the state of CA. The campaign was masterfully run - because the NO ON 2 message was that it would raise food prices and put farmers out of business, which it will.

    So what is the West Hollywood gay/lesbian response to the 5 - count 'em 5 - individuals that screwed us by using Prop 8 as a way to further their political and professional careers while locking qualified and experienced people out - we show up and cheer John Duran of EQ California (who wasted millions and millions of dollars) and then walk around West Hollywood and shut down all the major streets in the neighborhood to punish all the gays and lesbians trying to get home from work.

    THESE FIVE PEOPLE (from EQ California and NO ON PROP 8) MUST BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE for derailing, once again, the progress of civil rights for gays and lesbians for their own personal gain. They take their incompetence from one gay/lesbian organization or campaign to the next leaving a trail of failure and financial ruin in their paths.

    P.S.
    Let me tell you a little bit about John Duran. He has spent his entire time on the West Hollywood city council codifying rights for pets. While other cities in the area are moving ground breaking laws for quality of life for their citizens Duran has been making sure cats are companion citizens instead of pets.

    More and more, the gay and lesbian community has as many dumbass, blissfully ignorant and uninformed members as the Republican party.

    Posted by: David B. | Nov 6, 2008 10:56:48 AM


  18. I've thought about this issue all night, and delayed checking in with Towleroad this morning because of it. It is painful.

    Yesterday morning I was all jubilant about Barack Obama's victory, and then I read the bitter and pain-filled comments of white gays concerning the "betrayal" of Black Californians on Proposition 8. Both white and black gays have justification for being saddened by the response from Black Californians on this issue. But we CANNOT let this become an issue of black folks vs white gays--that's ridiculous! There are too many black gays who support marriage rights also, and too many white gays who are not racists.

    The fight for gay marriage rights will continue. Gays must fight through the courts, and be prepared when right-wing groups try to overturn those favorable court decisions using public referenda. The ultimate fight may be in the United Supreme Court (a few years from now), and that is part of what the election of Barack Obama was about...for gay people.

    Also, we will have to find other ways of reaching black voters. Black Americans must be challenged to see that their response to gay civil rights is too close to that of racist whites response to black civil rights. ALTHOUGH, I 've been told that on the issue of civil rights for gays
    (employment, adoption, even civil unions, etc.), black voters don't have a problem--the problem is specifically MARRIAGE RIGHTS.

    Yesterday, I was angered by the bitter comments from some white Towleroad posters on this subject. But those were white posters who've made racist comments about blacks no matter what the topic of discussion was; then I began to think about those Towleroad folks who've always been supportive of black folks' struggles and against racism(Sebastian, Jimmyboyo, Zeke, 24Play, Leland, Rudy & NIC, and others), and how disappointed they must have been at the California outcome. It is disheartening for us all.

    I want to concentrate on those 30% of Black Californians who voted "no" on Proposition 8. Who are they? What are their religious, educational backgrounds? Do they have openly gay folks who are close them(family, friends, co-workers, etc)? And most importantly, how do we convince more Black Americans to think like that "30%" (who voted "no") --to MAKE them see the issue of marriage rights for Gay Americans as a moral issue for FULL civil rights for Gay Americans.

    Posted by: Derrick from Philly | Nov 6, 2008 11:01:22 AM


  19. MIKE...what you have written is what I have been saying for at least the last two years. It is a politically expedient solution that would seem to satisfy both sides. I cannot, for the life of me, understand why some politician hasn't come forward with this plan to 'rescue marriage' (I'm being sarcastic) while at the same time making us equal. I hope, hope, hope our new President has the wisdom and the leadership to push this.

    NOAH...everything you wrote is spot on.

    LORENZO...I'm appalled that the person writing in to the LA Times thinks that "homosexuals never had to do slave labor". Hell, the Nazis threw us in concentration camps and used us FOR TARGET PRACTICE!! We know these things. Why doesn't everyone else know it? Oh, that's right...most people are ignorant. It's our job to educate them!

    LANCE...not only was he hawt, he was also super friendly!

    Posted by: peterparker | Nov 6, 2008 11:08:18 AM


  20. Boy from Troy is a fucking stupid republican ... and such an asshole, why do you even mention him!?

    Posted by: Not From Troy | Nov 6, 2008 11:18:25 AM


  21. Noah, What are you blathering on about? I asked how 70% of Blacks could align themselves with a religion that does not fully accept them and only recently permitted them to enter their "temples". You, however, appear to be inordinately concerned with assigning blame.

    I reserve my contempt for the self-appointed "leadership" of No on 8, who squandered millions of dollars on unbelievably ineffective ads and no evidence of a ground game. I think we actually agree about the devastating effect of WeHo "bois'" apathy and naivitee but it is difficult to discern a cogent argument in your histrionics.

    Posted by: rudy | Nov 6, 2008 11:25:17 AM


  22. DAVID B.---obviously, you were not at the West Hollywood rally last night. By the time we took to the streets of West Hollywood (well, one large intersection at least) it was about 7:30 PM. By the time we overtook Sunset Boulevard and marched to Hollywood it must have been at least 9:30 PM, maybe even 10:00 PM. We were not delaying people from returning home from work.

    You have also managed to slander a good man. Yes, John Duran has fought for people who have pets to be considered 'guardians' as opposed to 'owners'. And yes, it seems a little silly. But Duran has also fought for access to alcohol and drug recovery in the GLBT community. He also was the attorney in charge of Kolcom v. Los Angeles County, successfully suing Los Angeles County for denying medication to inmates with HIV/AIDS. He successfully defended a person charged with felony assisted suicide in People v. Green. He was the trial attorney for the Los Angeles Needle Exchange Program. He served as legal counsel for ACT UP in the '80s. What have you done for the community, DAVID B?

    Posted by: peterparker | Nov 6, 2008 11:30:35 AM


  23. To David B.

    I was at the rally last night and subsequent protest and march on the streets. Nothing about it was misguided. For the first time since I've lived in Los Angeles, it actually felt like there was a gay COMMUNITY. It felt incredible.

    Play the blame game all you want, but people were at that rally last night united ready to continue to fight. It's easy to Monday Morning Quarterback and throw stones at people like John Duran but the fault lays on us all for not marching sooner.

    "Punishing gays and lesbians trying to get home from work"?!? I'm sorry if we march on Sunset Blvd and Hollywood and Highland to demonstrate to people that we DEMAND equal rights, I think their drive home can be delayed. Besides, 99% of the cars supported us. This march let Southern California and the nation know, that this fight is far from over.

    So perhaps you need to put down your attacks on people that tried to help, unite with rest of us and move forward.

    Posted by: Rob | Nov 6, 2008 11:31:01 AM


  24. Thanks for the comments guys regarding what I wrote above regarding getting the state out of the "marriage" business. It just seems so simple, I keep thinking I'm missing something - and why hasn't it been done before. Maybe we now have the pieces all in place by the way the CA Supremes wrote the Marriage decision, and the subsequent passing of Proposition 8 to make it happen. I think it is an excellent end run around the anti-gay marriage folks. We're basically using their arguments against them. They made it very clear in their ads it was all about the "word" marriage - not about trying to take away "rights" - they went out of their way to say in their mind that "domestic partnerships" were equal to "marriage". I just keep thinking there is a flaw here, and I can't figure out what it is. It all seems so simple now...

    Posted by: Mike | Nov 6, 2008 11:32:31 AM


  25. I attended the LA rally and it was empowering and great to feel the sense of collective pick-yourself- up, dust-yourself-off, start-all-over-again-edness (to coin a word :)). What was most notable from the leaders who spoke was to let anger go and not blame Black People (70% voted Yes according to exit poll data) and to take out the frustration on anyone- rather get reorganized and continue to speak rationally with others framing marriage equality as a Civil right.

    Posted by: Alan | Nov 6, 2008 11:41:39 AM


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