Comments

  1. Macca says

    PROP 8 PROTEST MARCH
    SAN FRANCISCO
    TOMORROW (6 NOV)
    5:30PM
    CIVIC CENTER TO DOLORES PARK

    SPREAD THE WORD
    WE MUST COME OUT IN MASSES

  2. MACCA says

    SF PROTEST IS
    FRIDAY NOV. 7TH
    5:30PM
    CIVIC CENTER TO DOLORES PARK

    (*sorry for the typo in the first post)

  3. says

    This needs to happen for the next 2 years.

    People need to know it is UNNACCEPTABLE to vote against equality.

    And, hey, at the very least we’ll get some voters who just don’t want the added traffic! lol

    But seriously, though, if hell hath no fury like a scorned queen, then we’ll win this thing two years from now – if we don’t win it before then in the courts.

  4. echovic says

    I am getting super pissed off at the lame tactics of the leadership of ‘no on 8′ – I donated 10% of my savings, only to see an ineffective campaign that did not do enough to get 51% of the people to vote. After losing – seeing this on TV is ludicrous. What is gathering around the mormon church going to do in terms of legally changing anything? why did they not rally around all the marginal groups earlier? why this thuggery when the job is to convince people by example, not out thug the others.

    with a little planning we could have had a major event with hundreds of thousands of us do simultaneous marches in LA, SF, Sacramento – instead we’ve got 3000 gays stopping traffic on a Thursday night. Shame of the no on prop 8 for the void in competent leadership!

  5. CK says

    No matter what the leadership may have done to fail us, now is not the time to complain about that.

    Now, with these great actions we have seen today we need to keep that momentum up. THANK YOU to all the LA people for coming out to protest… and thanks in advance to all the SF people… Please keep it up… make as much noise as you can… be visual and be active.

    I wish I could be there on the West Coast with you. You guys are GREAT!!!!

  6. Macca says

    Why can’t we arrange a “major event with hundreds of thousands of us do[ing] simultaneous marches in LA, SF, Sacramento”?
    Let’s make it happen! It’s not too late!
    I’m pissed off, too! And I don’t know who the so-called leaders are, either. But I’m tired of spending the past 2 days at home crying. I’m ready to take it to the streets!

    SF PROTEST TOMORROW
    FRI, NOV. 7, 5:30PM
    CIVIC CENTER TO DOLORES PARK

  7. MIke says

    I have to agree with echovic. Just what are these protests supposed to accomplish now? Why weren’t they held *before* the election, when they might have helped shut off the flow of money?

    Also, as a recently decamped citizen of West Hollywood, I can tell you we are not making any friends by fucking up rush hour. Even sympathetic straights and other gays might get pissed off about that, and I’m not joking.

    So, we have a protest that doesn’t appear to be accomplishing anything, because it is all after the fact, and we’re probably pissing people off that are trying to get home, and they will remember this as a stupid stunt because they are probably asking themselves why this is being done now while they sit in their cars waiting during their commutes that were already more than an hour on a good day.

    Where is the strategic thinking?

  8. Cassius says

    This protest would have been better held outside a black church, IMO.

    In fact, you may see such a protest very soon…

  9. Daniel says

    I remember when Act Up used to do things that pissed people off. I was young then & never would have thought gay marriage would occur in my lifetime. Now it’s here, a little bit. Even in Europe, legal gay marriage has spread in the past few years, a little bit.

    For this cause, maybe a leader can emerge, a version of Larry Kramer or an author that can articulate the message widely like Randy Shilts did.

    Remember how people were so irate that Reagen wouldn’t even mention Aids for awhile? For me, that was a little more than half a lifetime ago. Progress can happen swiftly with a little momentum.

    Act Up made an impression & perhaps it’s largely forgotten by today’s twink generation, but my point is that something like that could emerge out of this CA backlash.

    But in nowadays, if the economy sinks and jobless rate goes to 8%, this will NOT be the only issue people will be bickering about, or thoughtful about. So i wonder if this flames out or will sustain enough to change/sway voters in 2010 elections.

  10. CowboyDenver says

    This brings back lots of memories of Prop. 2 in Colorado. We were all extremely elated at the election of Bill Clinton (1st term) and then gut-punched with the passing of Prop. 2 which prevented cities in Colorado from passing gay rights ordinances and invalidating those already on the books (Denver, Boulder, Aspen and more). The high of highs coupled with the low of lows. Yes, we were outraged and distraught and overwhelmed. What to do? What to do? In the end, we organized and several gay and lesbian lawyers found a way to fight it. The rest of us raised the funds necessary. Eventually it was declared unconstitutional by the Colorado Supreme Court.

    In the years since, many cities have expanded their gay rights protections. Denver’s police and fire actively recruit in the community (yes, you heard right). And this week we elected Jared Polis to Congress – the first openly gay candidate in the US to ever be elected to a first term in Congress. Life is good.

    So, have faith. And work hard. No one will give you your rights. You must fight for them — but fight intelligently.

    Peace. Brothers and Sisters

  11. Steve H says

    Does anyone know the email or phone numbers of LDS leaders? I’ve been searching online without any success. I’d like to let them know exactly how I feel about what they did.

  12. says

    Protest is not thuggery, Echovic. It is a time-honored way of banding together to stand up to the opposition. Since i’m in rural VT, I can’t, unfortunately, be out on the streets with my CA brothers and sisters, but I salute them. Protest is a way to channel justifiable anger, but, more importantly, it is a way to call attention to the injustice of Prop 8 (the protests are getting media coverage, which is crucial) so that injustice will not be forgotten by the mainstream. (Think back to the effectiveness of AIDS protests.) We need to keep this momentum going. And protesting hardly excludes educating people in quieter, more personal ways. We must do both, plus use the courts.

    There is blame to go around for why Prop 8 passed. But unless we can move on from finger-pointing and bitterness and continue to fight in every possible way, the opposition will keep winning. Now is no time to retreat politely and quietly into our safety zones.

  13. Robert says

    This sucks. Instead of banning gay marriage, homosexuality ought to be encouraged because it shortens life span by 20-30 years:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9923159

    But it’s not enough. To really control population effectively I suggest we bring back smoking by propagandizing it in schools and colleges as yet another cool and chic lifestyle. But not regular smoking, that only takes 5-7 years out of a kid’s average lifespan. What we need is 4-pack a day heavy smoking. That would take out 20-30 years and be on par with homosexuality.

    Ideally we should promote heavy smoking and homosexuality together thereby yielding a combined 40-60 year life span reduction. Now that’s real population control efficiency.

    Please remember that unless stopped mankind will continue devastating the environment and destroying species after species. It therefore follows that anyone against homosexuality or heavy smoking is anti-earth.

    Robert

  14. MC_BK says

    Did you know the streets in SLC were planned with all those lanes to accommodate the coming of the Lord? Apparently, they anticipate Him coming with quite the posse.

  15. Eduardo says

    I agree with Mike, why all this now? I think they should stop acting like a group of rabid queers and start educating people (in a polite and nice way) and debunkyng the lies of the religious right (tax , schools and all this seen in their ads), but it requires time and patience. I am sure before 8 years you will have same-sex marriage in California.
    Sorry for my bad English.

  16. says

    Robert: I’ve heard that ignorance and unnatural obsession with homosexuality significantly shortens life span, kills brain cells, and steals joy from whatever remains of your pathetic time of earth.

    P.S. And the gay people I know have no intention of checking out before we’re fabulous old farts.

  17. Mike says

    I think a coordinated protest in multiple cities would have been better also… but I completely understand and appreciate the anger and contempt for the Mormon Church. They preach freedom of religion – as long as it is THEIR religion.

    The Mormon’s have hidden behind the cloak of religion – now it is time they are exposed for what they are – a corporation which uses their tax exempt status to influence elections.

  18. Mikey says

    It is certainly exciting to see people upset and acting out. And perhaps it does draw attention from the complacent straights who we must convince to push our movement forward. However, I too am frustrated by our lack of national leadership. Who exactly set “marriage” as the priority? Why have we been spending millions of dollars trying to overturn state marriage laws and defeat public referendums that pass overwhelmingly, when we could be using that money to pass non-discrimination laws and other reforms that will have an immediate impact on every LGBT individual?

    There will be gay marriage some day ~ and all we have to do is wait for another 10% of the 65+ crowd to die. Morbid, but it’s true….

  19. LightningLord says

    This is great – Because gays aren’t already perceived as actively hostile towards religion.

    I’m sure this will change a lot of people’s minds, especially that 70% of ultra-religious church-going Black people.

  20. John says

    It is something we need to be doing all over the country! We need to take to the streets and say that we will not take it anymore!

  21. John says

    It is something we need to be doing all over the country! We need to take to the streets and say that we will not take it anymore!

  22. eric says

    Has Oprah said anything about Prop 8?

    Seriously, why aren’t more celebrities being vocal?

    – although thank you Ellen, Brad Pitt, Samuel Jackson, Lance Bass, Steven Spielberg and current protesters Rose McGowan and Wanda Sykes

  23. ROGER says

    LightningLord:

    Wake up and open a world history book pal, these kinds of group protests are the only way things will ever change.

  24. MIke says

    @John

    Just going to the streets and saying we won’t take it anymore is like blacks going to the streets and saying they demand a black president. It doesn’t work that way. We live in a country of laws, and we have to work within that framework.

    These protests should have been held BEFORE the election, when there were some actual goals that could have been accomplished, like stopping the flow of money from the LDS.

    It is becoming increasingly clear that the NO ON 8 leadership, though well intentioned, were not up to the job and wasted valuable resources with a badly organized and executed campaign, including extremely poor ads. There also appears to have been a lack of research, or a failure to act on that research. We should have known that the LDS and several minorities would be areas of concern long before the hate money started rolling in.

    The Christian Coalition of America has announced that their new goal is Prop. 8-type amendments in the remaining 20 states that don’t already have one, incl. MA and CT:

    http://tinyurl.com/648brb

    We need to get ready and start a new national organization, learning lessons from the Obama campaign, and finally get an organization that has a clear strategy, finesse, knows how to operate on several fronts (minorities, religions, states), and plan for different scenarios. We did some of this with ACT UP, and we can do it again.

  25. LightningLord says

    >>LightningLord: Wake up and open a world history book pal, these kinds of group protests are the only way things will ever change.

    Roger,

    You need to read up on your history. The history of the civil rights history might be a good start.

    Marching and holding protest rallies just to express anger and frustration was NOT the way the civil rights movement generated social change. They had a firm legal strategy behind everything they did. Something our gay rights organizations might learn from.

    Oh well, you march if it makes you feel better.

  26. Derek in Madison says

    You all speak as if there is only one way for change, when in fact, the only time change has every actually happened in such a grand scale is when EVERY aspect of society is involved.

    Fags: keep rioting.
    Fag organizers: keep organizing.
    Lawyers fags: keep strategizing and figure out a way to beat this.
    Rich fags: keep funding.
    Legislative fags: screw the mormans.

    It takes activism in every arena. Stop tearing down any one branch, we’re all on the same side. Do what you do best and contribute in the way you best can.

    Look at the 60’s. Students rioted against Vietnam, rich people donated against Vietnam, courts and legislators lobbied against Vietname. Who were the ones who tipped it? Students.

    In other cases, it’s been courts, or organizations. Either way, keep it peaceful, stay vigilant, and support EACHOTHER!

    God I wish I was there.

  27. hamp says

    Taking to the streets is actually a very effective way of getting your message out. It was a favored tactic of Martin Luther King, Jr. and it worked very well along with boycotts work stoppages and other actions. It is one tool of many that we have at hand. And if people are irritated by us stopping traffic and making them late just think how irritated they would be if we started taking away their rights to marriage or job security regardless of their religion or sexuality. Let them get angry, so what? Do you think they care what we think? Let’s show people how mad we are and if it clogs up an intersection of two in the process, big deal!

  28. JJ says

    This is too little, too late. We lost our right to marriage because the majority of the gays were too busy seeing Madonna and being secure with California that there was no way it passed. The No on 8 campaign ignored the minority vote (esp. the african-american vote, which is known to have a huge anti-gay leaning) and put out just plain horrible ads on TV. I wasted my money so they could put NO on 8 ads on LOGO and BRAVO?! WHAT?!

  29. Derek in Madison says

    Hey Lightnighlord —

    How about South Africa?

    I’m pretty sure the CHILDREN’S REVOLUTION there wasn’t legally thought out before it happened. They were children, all young people, thousands of whom were killed, that took direct action and eventually Nelson Mandella would be freed. Yeah, “legal” action was what would actually, eventually free him, but that never would have begun without the children on the ground fighting for what they believed in.

    Everyone needs to stop being critical. Find a way you can contribute and shut the hell up.

  30. Gary says

    The fight is never over. These bigots that were thrown out of NY State and continued their racism until just recently thinks that people do not remember how they wanted respect and equality while they pay for lies and deceit to people.

    Screw Joseph Smith and his mythology.

  31. Mike says

    @Hamp

    Just transferring our anger to the very people who’s support we need to accomplish our goals is not going to be productive. Again, we need to think like intelligent adults with a strategy, not angry teenagers.

  32. John says

    Angry teenagers, you say?

    Were you around for the Briggs initiative? I was. Were you in SF when Milk got shot? I was. Were you around when Dan White got off? I was. Were you around for AB101? I was.

    Anger is exactly what we need now! Especially angry young people. Not candles and songs. Anger!

    Get out in the streets, people. I was out last night and today.

  33. Jimmyboyo says

    barring court action we will need 2/3 vote 2 yrs from now to overturn prop8

    3,000 protesters would be better served knocking on doors in LA gay ghetto registering our own to vote

    3,000 protesters would do better by setting up booths every single day and night outside of every single gay bar and biz in LA grabbing every single gay person to pass by and make sure they are registered to vote

    1/2 of ca gays are not registered to even vote an untapped extra 10% to our side

  34. Mike says

    @john

    I have no interest in talking to a cult member, yet alone thanking them for their “love”.

    Any anger we express at them on that page will just be used against us.

  35. Jimmyboyo says

    1/2 of CA gays aren’t even registered to vote and few of you seem to be angry about that.

    Slap your friends, slap 1/2 the people in our own bars, and then slap a freaking pen and registration form into their hands while threatening to slap them again unless they fill it out

  36. john says

    @jimmyboyo

    “any anger we express at them [Mormons]…will just be used against us”? If that’s not a passive commet, I don’t know what is.

    What exactly have they shown us with their support for Prop 8 if not anger and more? You already know what they think of you.

    And…jimmyboyo, what exactly are you going to do about it, if not protest, rally or march?

  37. Jimmyboyo says

    John

    registering apathetic gay voters just as I did pre the vote, get ignored by same apathetic gays, and drive elderly shut in gays to the polls in 2 yrs when we will need 2/3 vote barring court action

    John, please explain how you are going to change a mormon opinion about us when their religion declares that it is impossible for us to get into their highest heaven

  38. John in CA says

    Derek,

    Exactly. The pacifists who insist we should just “shut up” today are the same liberals who decried Mandela for taking up an armed struggle. Sometimes violence is necessary.

    Since when has an appeasement strategy actually worked? Without a Malcolm X, whites would’ve never turned to a MLK. They only embraced King because he was the “alternative” to their precious cities going up in flames.

  39. Jay says

    This war must begin with labeling bigotry 2hen we see it. We can no longer think that these people hate us because hate is a passive emotion. These people are inflicting their bigotry on us. It defines them and the pictures of the Prop 8 supporters celebrating the denial of basic human rights to others showed how much they enjoy it.

    These people are bigots. Let’s call them what they are and take the battle to where they live. It has been said that in any war combatants must dehumanize the enemy in order to kill them. We are already less than human to them and they have a wide variety of laws to prove it. We have never sought to kill them as they have us. Nor will we outlaw the bigotry that is so important to their identities. What we must do is take from them what is most important to them: the ability to feel good about inflicting their bigotry on others. They must understand that what they do is immoral. It makes them bad people. They are no better than bigots because that is exactly what they are.

  40. Um no says

    Jimboyo does have a point.

    Turnout in gay friendly areas wasn’t near what it should have been. While there are certainly serious problems with the black, latino, and mormon communities on this matter, the gay community turnout is something we can change instantly.

  41. Oscar says

    It was not the Mormon Church what sank the propositions in California and Florida,it was the black vote what did it.62% of blacks voted in favor of the propositions at the insistance of their pastors.What we need is the Jim Crow Laws back again so they feel what is to be descriminated again.Anyway Obama has as much in common with american blacks as the Earth has with Mars (both are round only).I will rejoice when their dreams are broken on the reality of the situation and the outlook of Obama (white mother,black absentee father,white grandparents that raised him and education in white institutions).The reality is that in terms of american blacks,he’s not black enough.Thank God.

  42. John Beene says

    This is great to see. All of the black churches that supported Prop 8 should be picketed relentlessly. Someone needs to have the balls to hold the black community to account.

  43. john says

    Jimmyboyo, I directed my rant to you when it was meant for “mike”.

    I agree, your registering voters is proactive and great! It’s step 1. After a loss like we just suffered, however, anger is not only justified, but also effective. Taking our anger out into the streets is one of the best ways to show our unity, our determination and our numbers.

    There are iconic events in modern-day Gay and Lesbian American history. The somber and sad Moscone/Milk candlight march, which I participated in, was one, but, so were the riots that followed the Dan White verdict. Perhaps more effective.

    I don’t expect to change a Mormon’s mind. I just want them to know in anyway possible just how personally and directly they have impacted mine, my partner’s and my community’s lives. If harassment is one way to do it, then so be it.

  44. Mike says

    My comment was directed specifically about not going to mormon.org and getting into an electronic altercation that would no doubt be recorded and be bad from a public relations standpoint. Just blowing off anger does more harm than good. Use that anger to get organized, not to lower yourself to their level by looking like an angry child.
    Christians are already monitoring gay websites for any threats of violence (see joemygod.blogspot.com). Don’t play into their hands.

    Some people are also forgetting that Prop. 8 was losing by a pretty wide margin BEFORE the LDS became involved, and if the had not gotten involved it would have been defeated.

    Taking the percentage of minority voters that voted for the proposition AFTER the involvement of the LDS is not an accurate way to measure the impact of minority voters. You’re taking the results after an event and then applying those results before the event to gauge the impact of the event that hasn’t even happened yet.

  45. Jersey says

    Its never too late and protests are way effectual. Back in the late 80’s and early 90’s we marched on Washington in protest against both Reagan and Bush I AIDS policies. Tons of gay people went and it was a fuckin blast! Obama promised us he’d end DOMA and said he supports civil unions. I say we go straight to the top and cause a rukus for Obama early. I’ll bet we’ll get further along in our quest for equality with someone who understands our plight than we ever did with Reagan/Bush I. This of course in addition to picketing Mormon and black churches as often as possible.

  46. says

    Food for thought:

    The Republican party and Christian right referred to Barack Obama and the State Supreme Court Justices that overturned the gay marriage ban in California as socialists. The largest socialist entity in the world is the Church (no matter the affiliation).

    Arguably, when it comes to church affiliation, Catholics and Baptists make up the major portion of the Democrat party. They are also some of the strongest vocals against gay rights.

  47. Dan says

    I encourage everyone to go to the Mormon website – mormon.org and go into the live chat they have — where you can talk directly to a missionary. Let them know what their church is doing to you personally. It can’t hurt for them to hear from us.

  48. Jeffrey Christman says

    I marched today and it was the most exciting night of my life… we truly stood united as a community, let our voices be heard. So proud that we didn’t have yet another West Hollywood event. We took to the streets, and everyone saw us taking a stand, making noise and showing our faces. It was incredible… a revolution has begun.

  49. B says

    As soon as I saw this posted on Towleroad, I jumped right in my car and floored it to this rally (conveniently located 2 blocks from my house!)…and it felt sooooooo good!

    We were unified, we were in harmony, we were one voice fighting for one cause, we all embraced, we all smiled at one another and we all had fire in our eyes. We were walking past Santa Monica blvd and some cars stopped on the red light honked for us, people cheered, waved….it felt soooooo good!

    I’m 23 years old and I’ve never taken such PRIDE (the true kind…not the festival where we sport leather assless chaps, salute the most hung porn stars on a parade float and have bets with our friends as to who can score the most digits) …in my community. I’m sorry to be so blunt, but the silver lining in all this truly is the new found unity within our community…a unity my generation has NEVER experienced in the gay bracket.

    Before, we exchanged glares, threw hissy fits and saw one another as “cock blocks”…now we truly grasp being on the same boat stranded …but trying to make it to shore with everyone else. I’m so proud to be gay today (of all days!).

    Side note, I did suggest to some of the organizers they orchestrate THIS…in the same magnitude…somewhere OUTSIDE of West LA where we already have the majority of the support. We’re kinda preaching to the choir posing outside of santa monica blvd with a banner. Take this to the communities that voted 70% against gay marriage and make our voices REALLY heard.

  50. jason says

    Why are we only protesting outside a Mormon church? We should also be protesting outside a black church in South Central LA. The black community is heavily influenced by Christian fundamentalism. Let’s not be politically correct here. Hold the black churches to account as much as the Mormon churches.

    We need to call a spade a spade and stop being politically correct about this. It was our political correctness which partly doomed gay marriage. We, as a community, were too afraid to show happy gay male couples in the ads. We were afraid of who we were.

  51. shane says

    I agree about holding the black churches to account. Unfortunately, the gay community in California considers blacks to be a fellow victim class. Hello? Anyone there? The cuckoo clock is chiming.

  52. Giovanni says

    Oscar

    It’s ironic that you should be thanking God for your twisted logic when it is he/she/it, or at least his/her/? word as told to man, that is the problem – not skin color or race.

    If you really want to make a difference pull your head out of your ass and become a part of the community (volunteer for something other than being a reductive dick) you seem to hold in such contempt – it’s absurd to ask for acceptance from straight blacks when you clearly are not offering it yourself. You turn outrage into farce.

  53. Makoi says

    Why are gays protesting AFTER the vote? Where was this energy, organization, unity BEFORE the vote, when it really mattered? Now it is coming off as a bunch of silly sore losers throwing tantrums because they weren’t smart enough to galvanize their voters and persuade the malleable middle. It makes gays look even worse.

  54. Cassius says

    No Jake, my comments in favor of boycotting black churches have not been removed, I am happy to report. I just have to deal with the usual charges of “race-baiting” from those too scared to confront the REAL elephant in the room: the rampant homophobia in black society which caused us to lose this election.

    It’s good to see others here like you, Jason and Shane with the courage to confront the elephant too.

  55. simon says

    Where are all the straights who claim to have gay friends? Why aren’t they at the protest? I agree with the notion that the gay community has been very apathetic about Prop 8, almost expecting it to be defeated. I think we need to put a mirror in front of us, have a good look at ourselves.

  56. We March! says

    Yes, my gay brothers and sisters in LA. I am in NYC but I march with you in spirit! And I will come soon to LA to march with you in person!

  57. Sargon Bighorn says

    FUCK YEAH don’t let up, get mad. OTHER groups have rioted and gotten mad, Gay Americans are citizens too and we are allowed to get mad when we’re treated like 0/5 (zero fifths) of a human being. GET MAD.

  58. bruce says

    Note the almost complete lack of black faces at the protest. Don’t black people believe in gay rights? They’re probably in their churches listening to anti-gay sermons.

  59. Cassius says

    Yes Jake (and the rest of Towleroad), my comments regarding taking action against black churches are being censored and deleted.

  60. PDX Guy says

    If you want to report this to the IRS there is a form you can use to file a complaint about a exempt organization:

    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf

    One of the checkboxes is “organization is involved in a political campaign”

    Probably nothing will happen but just another way to get some action going.

  61. Jamal says

    “Anger is exactly what we need now! Especially angry young people. Not candles and songs. Anger! ”

    No, dude. What we need are shrewd thinkers in the vein of the Obama campaign, not mere agitators who make things worse. We need brilliant strategists and charismatic but cool leaders who ignite passion and devotion in the populace to the point of having them dedicate themselves to the cause, even to the point of taking leave from work, giving a huge portion of their income. The last thing we need is a bunch of hot-headed reactionaries who act up AFTER the fact.

  62. Cassius says

    No, wait I take that back; my comments are there (I must have been looking at the wrong thread; sorry about that).

  63. B says

    It’s stunning to me (having just come back from the marches with total glee) that for every resiliant post, there’s a negative poster saying “Ehh. too little to late. why even bother? pack up and go home. You’ll make the straights angry.”

    Uhm…FYI~…they made us angry countless times throughout our plight…30 extra minutes in traffic isn’t reflective of the congested life we’ve had to endure, ALL our lives.

    THIS is exactly what we need. They WANT us to fold, kick the rocks and bow down. They want us to go away in silence and defeat. That’s NOT the winning formula to succeed. Maybe not achieve that success instantly, but our marches this evening wasn’t about instant gratification. It was about our generation as well as the next generation of gays…who may be wondering about themselves at this early age…and after this hate filled campaign, second guessing what it means to be gay and feeling like society doesn’t want you to be a part of it. THESE protests are for them…THE KIDS…who see us and say “Wow. The courage! I hope one day…”

    We need to make a splash, and not just float on top.

    In the famous words of Malcolm X..it’s time to stop singing and start swinging! (and that does not infer to violence)

  64. Giovanni says

    “Yes Jake (and the rest of Towleroad), my comments regarding taking action against black churches are being censored and deleted”

    Well then perhaps you should give your comments a bit more analytical thought before you submit them. It is perfectly acceptable to be critical of organized religion but what is not acceptable and what is completely counter productive is to scapegoat under the guise of injustice.

    Yes, much of the California black church (not all) should be held accountable, along with the rest of the God Squad, for being on the wrong side of equality but they are on the wrong side because of archaic religious beliefs, not because they are black, so leave the petty bigotry at the door or you risk an even bigger fight.

    There is plenty of blame to go around and you might start with the staggering percentage of California gays that are not even registered to vote.

  65. Jamal says

    Yeah, the black civil rights movement marched and protested, but they protested in a certain manner, disciplined, non-violent, praying, chanting, holding hands, quoting Scripture; they did it in a way that garnered respect and sympathy. For the very large part, they were stridently non-violent, committed to espousing rockbed moral and religious principles in commission for their cause. They didn’t yell and scream in an angry manner. Moreover, everything was part of a well thought out strategy. They chose a leader who was articulate, charismatic, and cool. They tied their struggle to the Bible and religious principles. They didn’t physically fight back; they sought to portray themselves as victims of bullies. AND they wisely pursued a duel strategy in the courts AND the legislature, picking and choosing cases and plaintiffs at just the right time, not prematurely. Don’t be deceived: the Civil Rights movement were master strategists whose every move was orchestrated, and for the most part, very few people departed from the script.

  66. joss says

    These selfish sour grapes actions are not going to do anything to garner support for a non-cause.

    Why not devote this kind of energy to tackle real issues, like the rising HIV/AIDS cases among young gay men for example????

    Some gays seem to be choosing the EASY issues while ignoring the elephant in the room issues. Some of you must think the rest of the population is really stupid not to see through your selfish shallowness…

    Get over it! Deal with the real problems in your community, leave other communities the hell alone.

    If you hate on straight people so much why are you dying to be just like us in so many ways???? You hate on churches but are crying over not being able to get married church style? Oh the irony!

  67. sharksfansd says

    Joss, are you more like Larry Craig or Larry Craig’s wife?

    BTW, what are you doing here? You can see plenty of those pictures on other websites.

  68. B says

    Joss…hate is not a becoming color on you.

    Want me to sit down and list all the issues plaguing YOUR so picture perfect straight community? ..because the list is endless. Our struggles are ever present, you’re right, but we don’t need anymore added from you all.

    If ANYONE if fixated on other’s lives…it’s many of YOU straight people clearly devoid of any passion, interest or spark in your own relationships, so you have to fixate on what we do in our bedrooms. Back off, and live your own miserable life. We have no interest in speaking of it, protesting it or voting on it…now lay off ours (and our blogs!)

    p.s~ as much as you’d wish for us to “Get over it”…we’ll certainly get over something, and that’s the injustice people like yourself spew toward us. THAT battle is something we’ll get over, overcome, and defend with pride.

  69. sharksfansd says

    And one last thing Joss. You do realize that the 48% of the people that voted for this are not gay, right? These 48% believe this is the wrong thing to do. And hopefully the California Supreme Court will decide that the 52% majority can not create a separate class of citizens.

  70. Joss says

    shark,

    I see that you assumed that I’m male, sorry to burst your not very original bubble, but I’m female, the pics here are nice to look at, sure. Clap Clap. I visit this site once in a while for gossip. Same as you and others. ok. Anything else?

    I see that your and other’s lack of originality also extends to what you think my politics and person must be like. I don’t belong to the right and I’m not in a god squad either. I do not fixate on gay lives. Why should I? YOU on the other hand fixate on a straight practice. Why? What is so lacking in your life that something that isn’t significant to you (don’t think I buy that it is) is being made into this big issue???

    Wake up and smell the coffee! Not all of us who voted yes on 8 are who you think we are. There is diversity amongst straight people yet there are things we have a common interest in. Shocking isn’t it? Diversity. Oh the irony again.

    Your hate accussations are so whiny and so tired and it’s noticeable (the results of prop 8 are a big indication of how a majority doesn’t buy that hate crap) Work on a new mantra, won’t you, something closer to the truth.

  71. busytimmy says

    Look, I hope the same protest happens in front of the LA Cathedral downtown tomorrow. The largest parish in the USA. It is important that we protest now. The public needs to see the faces of those discriminated against by prop 8. We are their neighbors, they need to ee our anger, sadness and rage. Stay cool, calm, get out there and bear witness to this great wrong. Stop bickering and get out there!

  72. Pierre says

    I spent over six hours at the protest. It was inspiring. It was peaceful. And we received tremendous encouragement from people watching us from their buildings and cars (yes, even those who were sitting in traffic because of us).

    This was the first time in the 14 years I’ve lived in Los Angeles that I’ve ever seen the gay community so vocal and united.

    This protest was an amazing success and was orders of magnitude even more effective than the one last night for many reasons:

    1. This community is learning, at what seems to be a geometric rate of growth, to work together in a highly public, visible way to express its strength and political will.

    This was a far different face to the gay community than that which others usually see on television during Gay Prides. These weren’t half-naked dancing men they could easily dismiss as “sissies” or “weirdos” and thus vilify. These were mature gay men and women who were justifiably angered and were displaying that anger in an accepted form of civic display.

    2. It’s demonstrating the increased strength the gay community has gained in the last decade as a result of victories in other facets of public life. For those who would discriminate against us, they now will realize that there will be public consequences to such discrimination.

    3. It has shown those who would discriminate against us that we will fight back. And it has shown our community as well as our straight allies that we deserve the respect we’ve been demanding by our willingness to fight for that respect instead of shrinking quietly away in defeat.

    As many other posters have made clear, there is still much work to be done, and there are improvements we can make.

    So I urge those of you who are criticizing to donate those critical minds to the cause. We need your insights to help us be even more effective. Become a part of the leadership. Or create your own organizations to address the challenges we face and rally others to your way of fighting for the cause.

    I am no expert on the civil rights movement in this country, but I do know that the peaceful MLK was a needed contrast to the threat of violence that Malcolm X posed. Perhaps one of you could form that contrasting organization, or guide us on how to do so?

    For those of you who think the protests in Los Angeles the last two nights have been misguided, then I urge you to take an active role in guiding us in an alternative direction.

    If you don’t, then kindly step back and stay silent while those who are willing to take action, no matter how misguided in your estimation, do our thing.

  73. Scotty says

    Please don’t forget the MAJOR role the Catholic church group Knights of Colombus had in the fund raising and voter motivating role had in this election. The LDS church is not the sole organization to blame.

  74. GaryJ says

    The only thing that these religious idiots understand is money.

    All Gay people need to pull money out of the states who support such bans, and let it be known why the more money is pulled the more people will listen.

    We also need to boycot any churches, businesses that are behind it.

    Because the real god of religions is money, the real political power is money, lets deprive them of their god.

  75. Hank says

    Get ready for the fundies to take this fight national, state by state, and for a federal constitutional amendment. Gay marriage specifically, and hating on gay people on general, is the only winning issue they have at the `present moment. And that fact will not be not lost on their strategists. They will see that if they can win in California, they can win anywhere. We are going to be under attack. They are going to be stoking hatred towards us in any way they can.

  76. BHcolin says

    What if there was a vote that if you have been divorced, you can not marry again. No one would let that pass. But you know what I’m going to write my senators asking that question.

    If marriage is a religious act, then straight couples who are married by a judge, justice of the peace a ships captain should have their marriages revoked and have them be called civil unions.

    We in the gay community need to start writing all our congressmen/women and senators weekly, in every state. We need to find a way to have rallies in every big city in every state on the same day. I know I can write my senators -I don’t know how to form a mass rally across the nation, but we need to find a way .

    Tuesday should’ve been a happy day — walls were broken down by electing Barack Obama– but I feel more have been put up. I’m upset that 70% of black voters in Cali. voted to pass prop. 8.
    We don’t share the same struggles but we share being hated for who we are.

    We have to do something — but it has to be on a mass scale across the country.

    I’m just so sad, not just because of the vote in Cali. but in Arizona, Florida and Arkansas.

  77. Jeffrey says

    WOW. So many comments from people who know NOTHING about what went on today.
    I was there protesting and marching for 5 hours. It was EXACTLY what needed to be done. This event galvanized and energized the LA GLBT community like nothing I have ever seen. I was amazed at so many young people so fired up. In a good way! Our future looks bright.

    It was not ‘thuggery’. LOL! It was vocal and angry but above all non-violent.
    It stopped traffic and got media attention and made people sit up and take notice. Now they know that we have had enough of bigotry and we will not stand for it anymore.
    Hundreds of drivers were NOT pissed off that they were stuck in traffic–they were honking their horns and smiling and waving in solidarity! The rest looked pretty resigned for the most part. Anybody who thinks that one unexpected traffic delay will turn people against us doesn’t understand how traffic jams work out here in LA. Sometimes traffic just sucks at random times. We deal with it.

    We should have organized a massive coordinated protest in major cities??

    I imagine that we WILL do that too, sometime soon. These are not mutually exclusive ideas. In the meantime this is something we could do right now while our blood is boiling. Righteous anger can be a great thing!

    We should have done this BEFORE the election?
    What in the hell do you think we were doing????? For the last several months we HAVE BEEN registering voters(fyi we lost by about 400,000 votes–even if we had registered every last GLBT person and their PETS we would not have had enough votes to win), manning phone banks, recruiting volunteers, raising money… on election day about 7500 of us stood outside polling places to remind people to vote NO on 8. The whole NO on 8 campaign was the largest organizational effort in the history of the GLBT movement. To imply that we were sitting on our hands prior to this protest is HUGELY insulting and couldn’t be more wrong.

    Our anger at the Mormon Church is mis-directed??
    They were directly responsible for passing this measure. They were responsible for it being on the ballot in the first place, they poured in millions of dollars from out of state, they ran a filthy and deceitful campaign and their lies are what tipped the balance against us. You should be angry with them too.

    And yes, we should be very upset with the African American community for having such a short memory about what it means to be denied the right to marry who you love. But they didn’t fund this thing like the Mormons did. They believed the propaganda and voted the wrong way and shame on them.
    We should protest at some of the most virulently anti-gay Black churches and we should also sit down and talk with them. They need to understand that we are all in the same struggle for equality.

    We should work thru the courts and within the law instead of protesting?

    We can do both. And we are. Lawsuits have already been filed and this decision could very well be struck down and our marriage rights restored.
    In the meantime we are doing all we can. That includes taking to the streets in the great tradition of oppressed people throughout history. Nothing this important has ever been accomplished without such actions and those that criticize us for doing so are ignorant.
    They might try joining us as penance for their idiocy.

  78. John says

    Guys, why are you taking “Joss’s” bait? You don’t know who or what he/she/it is. Let it be.

    Pierre, you’re right. When one is part of a minority, and a despised one at that, getting angry, getting out in the streets, rallying, protesting, marching, making noise and being with one’s community is not only healing, it is incredibly productive. It shows unity, strength and size. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.

    For those of you criticizing civil disobedience and chanting the old mantra of “focus and behave”, just how many times do you need to be called faggot before you get mad enough to do something? We’ve just been dealt another big blow. How many is this now? I’ve been out in the streets all my adult life fighting this fight. There has been change, for sure, but not enough. When we beat Prop 6 back in 1978 it wasn’t because we behaved, it was because we got angry. The Stonewall drag queens didn’t change history by writing letters. We made Pete Wilson disappear from public life because of our AB 101 protests. How many weeks straight were we out in the streets, night after night, blocking traffic?

    The last thing we need after this huge slap in the face is to aim our anger at each other or blame ourselves. Heterosexual bigots did this to us, we didn’t.

  79. B says

    Jeffrey…never…on ANY blog..on any site…on cyber space have I read such spot-on words!

    GOOD FOR YOU and thank you for allowing me to save chalk by stating everything I wanted to (and then some!)

  80. echovic says

    Here’s the problem, Jeffrey and John – its not marching that is a problem. Its the stupidly organized marches – on a Thursday night, no notice, no coordination, no planning. Instead of 3000 there could be 300000 people somewhere in a coordinated march with organized press, organized community leaders of all backgrounds, and a plan to create a groundswell in mainstream America and marginalize the haters. Instead, we are supposedly showing the haters that we hate them back. That’s great, but 100% uninspired. And even though the mormons put their money in the campaign for 8, they aren’t the people who voted – its those people we HAVE to court if we are ever going to have a majority (2/3 in 2010).

    Finally, if the no on 8 leadership does not take responsibility for the failure, then they have NO credibility at all. Its not the volunteers and donors, like myself. Its the buffoons who were effective at getting the money but obviously not sophisticated enough to spend it in a way that enrolled the ‘yes’ undecideds. Were there targeted campaigns at all? I saw lots of ads, mainstream media and banners – what about finding allies and giving them mainstream media attention. And not just celebrities – were there any pro gay marriage black ministers views put out there? Were there any straight Hispanic guys putting their tolerance out there? I didn’t see any – so even if there were, it didn’t get enough play.

    That’s the failure – and now, instead of spending the anger in a haphazard fashion, where is the coordination and plan? All the no on 8 website says is that we will not give up – no action plan, no forum for people to channel their anger toward a bigger goal. No website (other than towleroad) for us in CA to know what is happening, when, and how. Not even a place to donate.

    We are all different as people and as gay people, but if we don’t have real VISIBLE leadership the moment will have passed.

    Where’s our gay version of Obama when we need one?

  81. Jeff says

    Echovic,
    Why don’t you try BEING the change that you want? All I hear is you deconstructing the efforts of others– but why don’t you just get out there and do it yourself?

    My 2 cents– yes we need more organization. Why hasn’t it happened? Because we’re spending too much time being contrite. Here’s the thing- the rights of a minority should NOT be a voting matter. To hell with the “activist judges” rhetoric, this is a matter for the courts. As long as we smile and have our safe little meetings and marches, there’s no real pressure on any court make this a priority. So, I think the LA protest was a great thing. Now, go to Sacramento. Where the capitol is. I don’t particularly care if the Mormons and Black churches are pulled to our side. They shouldn’t be deciding my rights anyway. It’s the job of the courts to make sure we are all treated equally, not some freaking Mormon.

  82. Alex says

    When I came out in 1989, I was in high school. I read about ACT UP and Queer Nation. The gay movement was highly politicized. I wanted to be a part of that community. I eventually marched on Washington TWICE and participated in protests against gay bashing. I have been upset at the general apathy among the gay community of late and these protests make me feel like we’re all getting our act together again.

    To the racists: please frame your comments more intelligently. If I hear one more person blame black Californians, I will scream. The people who voted for 8 were religious bigots. They come in EVERY color. Just like pro-gay marriage folks come in EVERY color. All of my friends here in NYC–male, female, black, white, Latino, Middle Eastern, Asian, gay, straight are up in arms over this Prop 8 business. So please shut your racist holes. It’s unbecoming and ugly.

    To the whiners: dudes, there weren’t marches BEFORE the vote because it didn’t look like this was going to happen. Many Californians believed that the Yes on 8 folks would eventually be defeated. You only protest when there is an injustice and a need. There is such a need now.

    AND LASTLY–it is our right as Americans to have civil disobedience. Think of how many countries where this is not possible. As long as we’re not going out there raping and pillaging, a peaceful protest is perfectly acceptable and necessary.

    To all of you in CA protesting, RIGHT THE FUCK ON. I wish I could be there with you!

  83. D.R.H. says

    Protest where it affects them most, on Sunday mornings, outside their churches. Throw this right in their faces. But then again, too many queens will be coming down from the night before to stage a protest on Sunday morning.

  84. Joseph says

    It’s a bit of a shame really, but all this race-baiting comments makes me kind of glad that prop 8 passed.

    Clearly there is a racism problem in the gay community. Perhaps this incident will now represent an opportunity to start taking notice of the black and Hispanic population that has been ignored up until now. It’s a shame it had to be this way though, leaving those who already married in legal limbo. But it’s probably for the best in the long-run, because clearly some homosexuals throwing tantrums need a lesson in what tolerance is all about.

  85. Charles says

    “Note the almost complete lack of black faces at the protest. Don’t black people believe in gay rights? They’re probably in their churches listening to anti-gay sermons.”

    Yeah, because there are so many non-white people in welcoming West Hollywood.

  86. CK says

    Well said Jeff, and to Joss, we do not fixate on straights, we fixate on what you do to harm our rights. Yes, you are a bigot, you are a fucking asswipe for not confining yourself to your own damn life. So proud of your hate, aren’t you, you stupid moron! Go troll some other place where someone may want to hear the drivel you spout!

  87. CK says

    Oh, and Jeffrey and John… spot on! Great posts, thank you!!! I am sick of hearing those that do nothing telling us to roll over and play dead. No fucking way!

  88. Jimmyboyo says

    jeffrey

    “fyi we lost by about 400,000 votes–even if we had registered every last GLBT person and their PETS we would not have had enough votes to win)”

    BS

    1/2 of CA gays are unregistered = a little over 1,000,000 untapped votes. 1,000,000 is far more than 400,000

    1/3 of CA registered gays did NOt vote

    My critic is valid

    There was NO organized registration drive state wide nore a GOTV drive

    HRC screwed up by begging for cash at cocktail parties and ignoring GOTV
    ———————-

    Barring court action , we have 2 yrs now fix the problem to try to get the 2/3 votes needed to overturn prop8

    Where is HRC?

    How many are trying to register protesters to vote for the fight 2 yrs from now?

  89. Jimmyboyo says

    “Note the almost complete lack of black faces at the protest. Don’t black people believe in gay rights? They’re probably in their churches listening to anti-gay sermons.”

    —————————-

    No surprise there with the gay community being extremely racist , our having what amounts to segregated bars, and or segregated nights at our bars. When the majority of examples of male beauty lionized in the gay community is a white twink. When asshats are screaching against Blacks and black churches (instead of screaching at HRC for not organizing a state wide GOTv effort) = Our brown brothers and sisters might be pissed at us white gays and scared to be caught up in a large group of their brothers and sister white gays.

    So piss off! Go register gay voters (1,000,000+ UNTAPPED unregistered gay voters in CA) for the fight 2 yrs from now if the courts don’t intervene

  90. says

    Thanks to those who’ve commented with wisdom and first-hand descriptions of the protests, especially Jeffrey. It’s truly inspiring to hear.

    We will need more organized protests, we will need to educate people, we will need more effective leadership, we will need to use the courts, we will need to question the tax-exempt status of churches meddling in politics. Derek in Madison put it well. But, as John notes, we also need to show our anger, and spontaneous protest (peaceful but forceful) is a time-honored way to do that. We’re only a few days into this defeat. I’m not about to criticize anyone who is out there fighting. Taking to the streets is entirely appropriate.

    As for the straight, pro-8 commentators. Why are you here? Why are you unnaturally concerned with homosexuality? Worry about your own life.

    “They will see that if they can win in California, they can win anywhere. We are going to be under attack.”

    We will be under attack, Hank, but we will also win. Time is on our side. History will be on our side, because we are right. In the short term they may win some places, particularly states where the constitution is subject to the whims of the majority. But they won’t win everywhere. In my state, VT, CUs are fully accepted now, and we’re working for marriage within the next few years. It’s very possible. They haven’t won in MA and CT, and there are no easy ways for them to win there. Progress is being made, little by little, even as it seems we’re moving backwards.

    Keep fighting, my brothers and sisters, this is an important time.

  91. Stray says

    If Brigham Young wrote the book of Mormon at the behest of the Angel Moroni. Shouldn’t their actual name be Moron’s or at least Moronies (my personal favorite).
    I think their reaction to Prop 8 bears this out!
    (With apologies to Angels in America)Strayboi

  92. Stray says

    GARYJ (Nov.7 2:52:AM) is right their god is money. The Civil-Rights Movement didn’t start having any effect until Money became an issue (or the loss there of) to the bus companies. We have to pull our money OUT of all the corporations, churches and any organizations which supported the defeat of our rights. We should take a page out of the American Civil-Rights Movement of the 60’s. This is the American Civil-Rights Movement of our time, and make no mistake THIS IS OUR TIME!!!!!

  93. Stray says

    BHCOLIN (NOV. 7 3:03:am)
    “SAD”? “SAD”? You should be fucking “MAD”!!!
    Maybe that’s part of the problem they don’t give us enough credit, maybe they forgot the past OUT LOUD rallies. I agree allot of them were over the top, but they WERE effective, they are remembered. Maybe we need to renew that fervor and stop being, (and in some cases acting, ie: “I’m sad”) like the stereotypical pansies they take us for!

  94. Jeffrey says

    About the racial factor:
    Yes, some posters have said some terrible racist things on here. But the vast mojority of us know that Blacks are our brothers and sisters. However, you can’t overlook the fact that Blacks voted against us 70% to 30%. The Hispanic/Latino vote was 53% to 47% against us and the Asian vote was 51% to 49% FOR us!
    The Asian and Hispanic/Latino populations were not courted any more or less than the Black community. And forgive me, but I don’t think ANY minority groups should have to be PERSUADED to grant us our equal rights. So, given the history of the struggle for marriage rights for people of color, the Black community needs to be held accountable.
    And there WAS a shocking lack of Black faces in the protest. Maybe it was because of lack of communication and they just didn’t know about it…. But anybody who showed up was there because they made the effort to FIND OUT about it.
    GLBT people have a great tradition of supporting equal rights for people of color without being asked. It is a slap in the face to read that 70% of the Black voters decided to take away our civil rights. I don’t think it makes me a racist to point that out.
    And yes, our bars and activities are way too segregated and I really hope we can improve that. But for that matter, Gay men and Lesbians are terribly segregated as far as bars and social activities are concerned and yet both groups were WELL represented at the protest and we were unified as one. If more Black people had come they would have been more than welcome and would have experianced the same rare sense of real community that the rest of us shared.

  95. thierry says

    Where are you people getting your figures about unregistered gay voters? As far as I know, no one in the election board knows I am gay. How would they know?