11/05/2008
Three Suits Filed Over Prop 8 as Californians Protest, Hold Vigils
Our reader Joe Rodriguez sends us these photos of the candlelight vigil held tonight at San Francisco City Hall in reaction to Proposition 8, although not all votes have been reported.
Three lawsuits have now been filed asking the Supreme Court to overturn Proposition 8, the L.A. Times reports:
"Lawyers for same-sex couples argued that the anti-gay-marriage measure was an illegal constitutional revision -- not a more limited amendment, as backers maintained -- because it fundamentally altered the guarantee of equal protection. A constitutional revision, unlike an amendment, must be approved by the Legislature before going to voters. The state high court has twice before struck down ballot measures as illegal constitutional revisions, but those initiatives involved "a broader scope of changes," said former California Supreme Court Justice Joseph Grodin, who publicly opposed Proposition 8 and was part of an earlier legal challenge to it. The court has suggested that a revision may be distinguished from an amendment by the breadth and the nature of the change, Grodin said Still, Grodin said, he believes that the challenge has legal merit, though he declined to make any predictions...
With regard to the three suits, "The first action was filed by the ACLU, the National Center for Lesbian Rights and Lambda Legal. Santa Clara County and the cities of San Francisco and Los Angeles also filed a suit, and Los Angeles lawyer Gloria Allred filed a third suit on behalf of a married lesbian couple. All the lawsuits cited the constitutional revision argument, and two of them asked the court to block Proposition 8 from taking effect while the legal cases were pending."
One more photo, AFTER THE JUMP...
Posted 10:41 PM EST by Andy Towle in California, Gay Marriage, News, San Francisco | Permalink
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Why the fuck are we protesting in West Hollywood? We should be protesting in front of the black churches which spew their fundamentalist garbage against us.
Posted by: jack | Nov 5, 2008 10:59:45 PM
The Supreme Court must tread very carefully. Judges are technically elected in California. In reality, most of them run unopposed once appointed to an open seat by the governor. But in this case, the wingnuts might try to gather enough support to oust Chief Justice Ronald George - the arthitect of the original marriage decision - in a recall election.
Unfortunately, the California constitution is based largely off the Texas constitution. That constitution seems to have been written by psychotic and paranoid settlers, who because of their negative experiences with the Mexican government, dislike centralized authority of any kind. Practically every non-federal officeholder is subject to a midterm recall. And practically every decision can be overturned by the electorate at any time.
Posted by: John in CA | Nov 5, 2008 11:23:46 PM
Where were all these people BEFORE Nov 4th?! All of a sudden people are fired up now they we've lost our right to marry. Too little, too late really.
Posted by: JJ | Nov 5, 2008 11:30:13 PM
John:
So virtually any right granted unequal protection is meaningless, but for any federal limitation? This is what the California Constitution is now sounding like. I mean-- I knew the governmental structure in CA was shitty, but this is crazy. What kind of due process or equality of the law can exist? What prevents mob rule?
Posted by: Akaison | Nov 5, 2008 11:44:20 PM
PS
What purpose does the amendment versus revision process serve if not to protect concepts like equality under the law? if it is so easy to amendment without revision it seems that the whole structure is just b.s.
Posted by: akaison | Nov 5, 2008 11:45:57 PM
I think we're all missing the point here: 18,000 couples married, and NOW they have the opportunity for a class action suit against the State of California. They can't not win. It's in direct violation of what's already taken place.
Posted by: Michael | Nov 5, 2008 11:52:11 PM
I warned about this a while back, only to have my opinions poo pooed and my reputation challenged by insular gays who don't know the fuck what they're talking about.
I said that the mainstream is very homophobic towards the male-male interaction. I also said that gay men were contributing to the problem by self-segregating and isolating themselves from the rest of society, doing virtually all their business in these ghastly gay ghettos. This isolationist approach to life is dangerous because it insulates you from the mainstream. It leads to you mis-judging what is occurring in the mainstream in relation to how the general population views gay people.
The passing of Prop 8 also proves my point about bigots in the black community. Any community which is heavily influenced by Christian fundamentalism, as is the black community, is a bigoted community. It took Prop 8 to prove it. That's not to say all blacks are homophobic.
Keep in mind this very important point. In general, blacks are against bigotry, but only that which is directed against them. We in the gay community are against ALL forms of bigotry.
Posted by: jason | Nov 6, 2008 12:01:54 AM
These Hail-Mary lawsuits won't work, but I guess they've got to try. On the marginal plus side, if you haven't gotten married yet you can still do it! Time is ticking away! The money raised can be used to work on a petition to repeal.
Posted by: anon | Nov 6, 2008 12:08:35 AM
When did blacks start to make up 52 percent of the population of California?
Posted by: akaison | Nov 6, 2008 12:10:20 AM
We failed to reach out to black voters. If we had we might still have marriage. We basically ignored them until the very end, trying to deny the fact that the majority of black people are anti-gay. It's unfair to place blame on them for Prop 8 passing simply because they make up about 10% of the California voters...but it is fair to say the numbers showing how many voted YES on 8 prove there is more homophobia in black communities then in white, asian, or latino.
Posted by: JJ | Nov 6, 2008 12:20:21 AM
@ JASON: and I bet even your shit smells like roses. Perhaps that's not the impression you want to leave, but that's the way it comes across.
The reality is that the Mormons brought in a bunch of money for a political action and should have their tax-exempt status rescinded. Further, the Prop. 8 people were successful in using "protection of the children" to scare voters who don't know gay families/gay people. Of course, the children of gay people just got screwed big time. And the "no" campaign seemed pretty flat-footed and under-funded (yes, this Washingtonian donated).
Yes, visibility is a huge issue here, but I don't think gays are so segregated anymore, but perhaps I'm wrong on that.
I don't think that blaming the small, if lopsided, black vote is productive. Working to build bridges with the larger African-American community and to build positive visibility is the answer.
For instance, I am a white guy who is a Big Brother to an African American kid (for 6 years). His mother WAS NOT homophobic to begin with, but I know that a few of her family and friends are [and other members of her family have been super happy about my marriage and adoption]. My goal is, of course, to mentor my Little, but if there's some collateral bridge-building and eye opening, that's a bonus.
Posted by: David R. | Nov 6, 2008 12:24:33 AM
Jason, I'll join you in that poo poo platter.
I agree with EVERY (valid) point you made and thank you for having the courage to state it.
How is it we're allowed to call the Mormon Church every name in the "book"...spew all sorts of messages about ALL Christians...middle America...rednecks...
yet we can't dare say "Ya know what? that 74% of African American voters who voted AGAINST us, our rights, and our being...are MESSED UP!"...
Oh, how dare we! In a time of misery, we've now been asked to be more vigelent of other's feelings and be politically correct. Sorry...the flame was extinguished and this homo is upset about the stunning double standard observed after this election!
Posted by: Kyle | Nov 6, 2008 12:28:57 AM
May I make a whee little suggestion, in the Irish tradition of whee little things. STOP the FUCK from attacking each other you stupid Bitches and START working together for a change. Holy Christ don't you see where the REAL enemy is?
So in the whee little Irish tradition of things I think I'll skip out now and let the little Leprechauns take over.
Posted by: Sargon Bighorn | Nov 6, 2008 12:32:53 AM
How are we exactly suppose to reach out to black voters?
Beg forgiveness for being gay?
74% folks...74%!
The decision was made for us. Sadly. But this was an eye opening experience and I hope we really examine who was on our side and who wasn't.
Posted by: Kyle | Nov 6, 2008 12:36:56 AM
African Americans make up 6 percent of the population in California.
People also basing their analysis on the Exit poll that said that Prop 8 would go down for defeat by 53 to 47.
I know this will be ignores because at the end of the day people got their beliefs like JJ up above that trump actual data. But you shoul dknow that everyone- from Chris Bowers at Open Left to Nate Silver and fivethirtyeight universally says that exit polls are shit.
More than that- trying to find the actual voting percentage for blacks on this issue given the cross tabs of actually interviewed African Americans would tend to be more shit because of the margin of error.
But hey- why should we let any of that stop gays from demonizing black folks.
Finally, let me repeat- I am shocked to find out we make up 52 percent of the population of California. We must have had another black migration just to vote on Prop 8.
BONUS: None of the gays in gayville would leave their ghettos to talk to the black grinches who stole marriage. Then the gays marveled at the result because the 6 percent of the population now is 52 percent.
Posted by: akaison | Nov 6, 2008 12:37:15 AM
You reach out the same way that African Americans had to go outside of the black community to build relationships. The long hard working at it day by day rather than bitching like little children that it will require you to work. How many black people ave you talk to about this ? My guess is zero.
Posted by: akaison | Nov 6, 2008 12:38:49 AM
Jesus Christ! All some of you can do is blame African-Americans. Why don't you blame the organizers of Prop 8. Where is the rage at the white Mormons who paid for this? Where is the rage for the Catholics or Evangelicals whites? You want to blame 10% of the voters but fail to look at the numbers ignoring that not all voted for 8. You also want to ignore the terrible mishandling of the anti-8 campaign.
Lynch mob anyone?
If 10% of all Californians are gay, then where were the eligible gay voters? Purely by number, the number of eligible gay voters would counter the African-Americans who voted for 8.
The white Mormons and Christian Evangelicals organized and ran the show. Where is the vitriol and anger for them?
Scapegoating African-Americans is pathetic. There were four major anti-gay initiatives around the country. All were launched and managed by white Americans.
Look in the mirror. The real villains look just like many of you who are raging against African-Americans.
What out reach efforts were made to African-Americans by the "No on 8" forces? What ground work did they do?
Again, you want to blame 10% of voters but refuse to look at the other 90% who are the majority of voters.
Posted by: noah | Nov 6, 2008 12:51:00 AM
Andy - thanks for all that you have done w/ fundraising and raising awareness on this issue. This fight is far from over.....
Posted by: Mike | Nov 6, 2008 12:51:24 AM
Apologies if this has already been posted and I missed it (it's been a long, sad day):
http://lds501c3.wordpress.com/2008/10/29/how-to-file-an-irs-501c3-complaint/
Let's be sure everyone sees this.
Posted by: Mark | Nov 6, 2008 1:13:42 AM
I went to the vigil as well. Afterward, a large number of people took over Market Street and marched from City Hall to the Castro. I took a bunch of photos as well, if Andy (or anyone) is interested.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mermaniac/sets/72157608691193136/
Posted by: Bill Jennings | Nov 6, 2008 1:27:14 AM
"Look in the mirror. The real villains look just like many of you who are raging against African-Americans."
I'm confused...we're told not to play the blame game, but every poster above who requested we not blame blacks PROUDLY asks us to blame whites...huh? so wait, we're not suppose to blame anyone, certainly not blacks (who were the major driving force behind this- THE NUMBERS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES FOLKS!) but it's quite alright to blame every other group, most notably whites.
Get ready for the double standard in this nation to hit an all time low (or is it high?)
We shouldn't have to go beging for mercy from a minority group who was beging just hours before our true plight started.
Right now what we're asked to do is not even MENTION the fact that so many African Americans turned their backs on our cause. Sorry...but gays spent way too much money, time, energy, soul, passion to help elect a (wonderful) African American into office to shrug it off, kick the rocks and walk away.
Posted by: Kyle | Nov 6, 2008 1:31:42 AM
@Jason
"Keep in mind this very important point. In general, blacks are against bigotry, but only that which is directed against them. We in the gay community are against ALL forms of bigotry."
Oh really??! Then tell me why there is racial segregation WITHIN the gay "community"?! Give me a friggin break!
Posted by: Q | Nov 6, 2008 1:40:33 AM
Kyle (or is it Yeek?), why don't you address the FACTS presented to you by Noah? AA's only made up 10% OF THE ENTIRE VOTE. 10% is NOT the "major driving force" of 100%! Stop singling out Blacks as a main culprit. The math is not in your favor.
Posted by: Q | Nov 6, 2008 1:55:57 AM
I think the commenters attempting to defend or minimize the impact of anti-gay black voters are missing the point.
The point is not that blacks are 100% responsible for our defeat. The point is that they are disproportionately responsible for it b/c they voted overwhelmingly for Prop 8, when whites and hispanics did not. Also, it makes no sense to say "blame the Mormons". Of course they are to blame. But everyone knew that already. The shocker is that African-Americans, whom we have been told for so long are our allies and "coalition partners", are in fact no better than the worst white homophobes.
We should remember Tuesday the next time we are asked to support them.
Posted by: Dave | Nov 6, 2008 2:06:10 AM
It's the way those 10% chose to practice their 10% that was all too alarming. More alarming than every other "just 10%" times 50, squared, + another "just 10%."...
For US...inserting the word "just" before any percentage pertaining to our rights being stripped away is an outrage.
What's also outrageous is that some of you (our own brothers and sisters) can't empathize with our frustrations and are picking and choosing the race that turned it's back on you, over a community that needs you.
Posted by: Kyle | Nov 6, 2008 2:19:04 AM