1. Mike says

    The problem is history repeats itself. We all knew (or should have known) the shit storm of lies which were going to be thrown our way – the response, tepid ads. The politicians were not speaking out in our favor. Where was Obama and his ilk? I hope we have learned our lesson, but somehow I doubt it. Election campaigns are nasty business, we’ve got to be willing to kick ass.

    On another note, Prop 19 has the chance to be a major game changer. The ridiculous lies have already started… “forcing schools to sell marijuana”, “reefer madness in the streets.” It will be interesting to see if the truth wins or if people again are fooled by “be afraid, be very afraid”.

  2. Keith says

    The reality of Prop H8’s passage has almost nothing to do with the campaign (weak though it was) that was waged by both sides. Most people had already made up their minds, and no commercials, phone calls or door-to-door campaigning changed minds or votes. This is as much a generational issue as anything else, so until the older generation starts dying out, not much is going to change here in California. I give it about 20 years before we see any significant change and have a viable opportunity to overturn Prop H8 (unless the courts do this for us, which I don’t see likely at the SCOTUS level in my lifetime).

  3. stephen says

    Prop 8, at the least, has brought the whole question into the mainstream… increasingly, people recognize 2 items;

    first- another couple’s legal protection realistically has no effect whatsoever on another private citizen’s,

    second- that personal rights should not be decided at a ballot box.

    It’s a whole lotta ugly, but when it’s over- I’m hopeful that the larger lesson will once again be preservation of personal freedom.

  4. James says

    Here’s the lesson from a voter led proposition on the rights of a minority group – IT SHOULDN’T FUCKING HAPPEN.

    The ONLY way to protect the rights of a minority against a majority is through the court system and the legislature. That anybody thinks there is anything to be learnt by having to persuade people that your life is as valuable as there’s is kidding themselves. Do you think that folks in Alabama would have allowed African Americans to vote unless they had been forced to? Do you think unless it had been the law for the past 50 years they would allow it now?

    Stop donating money to public image campaigns. Drop out of this debate on moral grounds and instead lobby the court system to make it right. It will go on for another 50 years if we spread the money around instead of focussing it solely on the court system, where people with an intellect higher then a grade schooler are supposed to be making informed decisions.

  5. Chitown Kev says


    “Most people had already made up their minds…”

    Actually, I looked at a little bit of this report and the reports says exactly the opposite.

    The report identified groups that did move in the last 6 weeks of the Prop 8 campaign. Those groups included older Latinos (who became more favorable to gay marriage) and white Democrats (who became less favorable to gay marriage).

    Having worked on the ground in Maine myself (and this report covers Maine a little bit), I tend to agree with the report. As I was working over the phones and even in the field, there really were more undecided voters than I anticipated.

    I think that one thing that both the Yes On 1 and the Yes On 8 people did was that the convinced undecided voters; and our side seems to have ceded that to them.

  6. Wrecks says

    In the privacy of the voting booth, people will vote against us. Even if they wouldn’t admit to it publicly.

  7. Chip says

    James is right. The majority should absolutely never be given the chance to decide what rights a minority has. This is one of the primary reasons the court system was created.

    Unfortunately, the Supreme Court will not vote in our favor until some of the conservative justices leave. And when they do, you better hope there’s a democratic president. This is the best reason to vote democratic, in my opinion.

    Even with a large majority in both houses of Congress, the procedural filibuster gives the Republicans all the power they need to halt progress.

    Civil right for our community will come when the Supreme Court has more liberal justices. Keep voting DEMOCRAT!

    Of course, the Supreme Court will also never rule in our favor when public sentiment is strongly opposed to gay marriage. We don’t need a majority of the country to agree, but we need to be close to it, so I disagree with James on that front — public image campaigns are still important.

  8. Lester Aponte says

    This report, commissioned by the L.A. Gay & Lesbian Center from one of its own employees, contains much valuable information and good insights. But it is severely flawed in some of its conclusions. With regard to the “finding” that the election was not as close as the election results show, that is hogwash. This conclusion is based solely on a tracking poll whose results were so far off from all other polling that the No on 8 campaign had to fire the pollster. There is no data for the period October 29 through November 3, 2008. The pollster that did poll for that crucial last week, David Binder, completely disagrees with Fleischer’s assertions on wrong way voting. Nor does the report look at exit polling data which is the only measure of how voters actually decided on election day. There were in fact several exit polls done in 2008, not just the much maligned CNN poll. Thus, to the extent the report addresses shift on opinion for dates on which the poll it relies has data, it is valuable. When it makes a guess as to how many people were confused and on what side on election day based on data from a week before, it is NOT credible. Mr. Fleischer, by the way, is neither a pollster nor a statistician. What we fear is that this report will be misused to quash a ballot proposition in 2012 thereby postponing into the indefinite future the fight to restore equality in California.