1. Tony X says

    there is no sexual chemistry between these two … maybe because the straight one is not a very good actor

    handsome and a great singer
    but believable as the BF – not yet

  2. RONTEX says

    There isn’t supposed to be any sexual chemistry I don’t think, he isn’t Curt’s boyfriend, just he best friend and mentor.
    At least that is what I’ve read.

  3. George says

    I think they have a cute, flirty thing going on. Colfer has a high voice, just get over it.

    They’re letting the anticipation build so when these two finally get together (and I really think they will), they will outshine all the other couples on the show. It will be a great moment. And a groundbreaking one. It’s also pretty groundbreaking that this moment appears in a Christmas themed episode. Also glad atheist Kurt got a secular Holiday song.

    Now, if Murphy could just explain why the Holiday ep has no Hanukkah songs?… Even with two major Jewish characters in the Glee club.

  4. Mark says

    If he is his mentor maybe he should help Kurt to stop channeling Marilyn Monroe. He doesn’t have to be Rambo but a little testosterone might be nice. Being a chick-by-proxy just makes you a gay clown in the eyes of mainstream society.

  5. gbm says

    are these two actually dating? still not clear to me, since their romancing only happens in song. that said, this particular number is a surprisingly cute one.

    sigh, what have i become?? : )

  6. Rob says

    Despite the comments so far; I’ll say this: I love that 2 young men, gay or straight in real life, are singing this song on network television. I’m 41 and would have never seen this when I was in high school. Thinking back then I was the only gay kid in school, no role models, no internet, etc.; Glee in the mid 80’s would have been incredible for me. Guys, enjoy this duet for what it is, entertaining and if I may…groundbreaking.

  7. Rich says

    Whether they’re dating or have chemistry or not, this is actually a somewhat scandalous song if you pay attention to the lyrics. For two gay teens to sing it as a duet is pretty damn interesting for prime-time TV.

  8. annoyed by this says

    @ Rob

    Ever think that this groundbreaking scene causes anxiety for gay teens who are not feminine and cannot relate? Or keeps them silent because others will classify them as someone like Kurt (a girly boy, one that makes Hedwig look like a Tom of Finland character)

  9. TJ says

    Different strokes… generally not my type, but Kurt is winning me over. Maybe it’s because the character has developed and is more than just a stereotype (at least, to me). Or maybe it’s okay to be effeminate; it’s just bitchy that makes my skin crawl, and me want to unswallow (e.g., A-list NY). I like the chemistry, I enjoy the show. You don’t have to.

  10. Jay says

    @ Annoyed By This

    Ever think that this scene gives hope to those “girly boys” who feel like they’ll never find true friendship, much less love? Ever think that this scene could be showing how different gays can be — the flamboyant Kurt and his rather chill friend?

    Ever think about how stereotypes exist for a reason? I’m sure you embody a few yourself.

    Get over your internalized homphobia.

  11. says

    @ Mark

    “…Being a chick-by-proxy just makes you a gay clown in the eyes of mainstream society.”

    it generally makes one unattractive to other gay men as well

  12. Kam says

    Cute, but I was looking forward to the delivery of the “delicious lips” lines. That was left out but they kept the implications of alcohol. Still, nothing like it since Willow and Tara sang to each other on the musical episode of Buffy.

  13. Tony X says

    As a teen and even older (came out at 25) I was actually terrified that if I admitted I was gay – then the feminine side would take over … so the need for balance is important … however that said I think this gay character is great … :)

  14. gbm says

    @ Annoyed by This: Perhaps you didn’t notice, but there are 2 gay high school students portrayed in this scene. The effeminate gay stereotype is a stereotype when it is played only for laughs and presented as the only kind of gayness. That’s not the case here. Kurt does not represent all gay teens, but certainly there are effeminate boys in the world who can identify with this one character.

    @ Mark: It is pretty off-putting to hear gay men chastise an effeminate teen for not being ruggedly masculine enough for their own sexual tastes. You don’t have to jerk off to it, but perhaps you can learn to accept different forms of gayness in the world?

  15. taodon says

    I never thought I’d see the day where two men sang a Christmas/love song duet on national TV – regardless of orientation.

    Some of you may just take it all for granted, but we’ve come so far in twenty years – and I don’t think you even realize how major this scene actually is.

  16. Jay says

    The internalized homophobia in the gay community really makes my skin crawl. Not everyone is butch; not everyone is a gym-bunny; and, not every guy is into those who are! There are enough representations of gay people out there that we can, as a community, embrace the individuals who are “nellie” or who “may as well be a girl” or who may be a “stereotypical feminine gay character” or whatever. STEREOTYPES EXIST FOR A REASON! Why can’t we embrace the fact that we’re just as diverse as the heterosexual community!

    Furthermore, you may not be attracted to such a guy, but trust the fact that there are plenty of men who are. End of story. Mark, Annoyed By This, and mstrozfckslv, please note that your taste in men is not universal. Some fellas relate to guys like Kurt, and other fellas find those guys attractive.

    Seriously, get over yourselves and start spreading love. THAT is how we’ll begin to achieve real progress.

  17. FizziekruntNT says

    All of the comments surrounding Kurt’s effeminate performance mannerisms seem to be a projection of discomfort with the age-old sissy stereotype, but I think what some may be missing is the very real fact that those boys do exist. We may not all like it, and some of us don’t find it appealing, but it exists. It’s not right or wrong. It just *is*. Get over yourselves! The whole world isn’t about you.

    I’m amused with myself for even coming to the defense of the character because I remember so many years ago just listening to my own voice and working on “man-ning” it up and how fearful (with good reason!) I was of appearing “gay”, meaning, effeminate, at the time. However, no amount of training can make a person become what they inherently aren’t without becoming a walking lie…and they are the people that end up getting caught with their shoes protruding into others’ bathroom stalls, or marrying women only to cruise the Internet for casual encounters, and so forth.

    In Glee’s previous episode, where Kurt performed for The Warblers, Blaine clearly motioned Kurt to keep his hands down, as if to imply the theatrics should be kept to a minimum. This is a fairly obvious tactic at mentoring, but also shows the nature of control thought necessary in certain social settings (to the character’s detractors’ point), even in a non-threatening environment. This so-called relationship is going nowhere, and fast, but the show is great and demonstrates the ability to throw an occasional curve ball at the viewer. The writing team has been quite adept at showing real-life through dramedy. It’s just sad that people some still don’t understand that not every round peg will fit a square hole.

  18. annoyed by this says

    Oh Jay, darling, the internalized homophobia accusation, really?

    Is there really a shortage of homosexual girly boys on television or in movies? Where are the stereotypical butch gay boys? The masculine teens who are gay? Please point with your lady finger

  19. George says

    Yes, because misogyny is alive and well in the gay community. When will we stop seeing feminine as a bad thing? Its just another way to be, and some people do find it attractive.

  20. Thomasina says

    The bigotry on this board really saddens and disgusts me. I can’t decide what’s worse here: the frantic intolerance for any type of homosexuality but one specific, narrow kind; or the rampant misogyny that is really at the core of that intolerance. As Quentin Crisp said, “there’s no sin like being a woman.”

    Some people don’t fit into gender “norms” and never will, even when all the derision in the world is hurled their way. It is stunning to me that even here those people are still reviled.

  21. dscinsea says

    Echoing other comments – all of you please get over your negative comments because a CHARACTER on a TV show does not appease your idea of what gay should be – that’s the beauty of life – each of us is different – we have come a long way and as someone else said, we NEVER would have seen this scene on tv in the 80’s or early 90’s … we have come a long way and while we have further to go…what a great scene. There are many ‘stereotypes’ of gay AND straight people – and especially at this time of year – accept, love, and respect people for who they are, not how you think they should be.

  22. gbm says

    On Glee alone, Kurt is effeminate, Karofsky is big and butch, Blaine is neither effeminate nor butch. All are gay high schoolers. Some are out. Some are not. Some take aim at effeminate gays because they have, indeed, internalized the most common form of homophobia. Others are more mature.

    Annoyed by This is not only an asshole, but one not worth engaging with.

  23. Jay says

    With my beautifully-manicured lady finger, I will point at the following non-flamboyant gay characters on television and in the movies:

    1) THE FREAKIN’ BULLY on Glee.
    2) Bob on Desperate Housewives.
    3) Calvin on Greek.
    4) Barca on Spartacus (SUPER HOT, btw.)
    5) David on Six Feet Under.
    6) Keith on Six Feet Under.
    7) Caleb on the new Melrose Place.
    8) Oscar on The Office.
    9) John on Southland.
    10) Oh, and remember Jack from Dawson’s Creek?

    Sure…perhaps there could be more, but they do exist. Internalized homophobia on your part, though? Check.

    I think the butch boys are great. I think the femme boys are great. I think your just plain average boys are great, too.

    We’re a diverse group. Embrace it!

    Oh, and for the record, my “lady fingers” are manicured, and I also have highlights. But, I can run a 90 minute half marathon, and I can bench press twice my weight. I love seeing Broadway shows, but I also enjoy baseball games. Some of us are evolved enough to be able to see the world through different lenses, sweetheart. 😉

  24. Mark says

    I don’t have issues with a man not fitting some stereotypical ideal of masculinity. However, I do think that there is something wrong when a man fully embraces the female identity–and masculinity or manhood is treated like some icky thing to be avoided.

    I cringe when I see the behavior of queens like the ones on the A-List, prancing around like women, being gossipy, mean-spirited, conflictive, bitchy and shallow. If that is what being gay is, then I am proud to be homophobic, because that is not the kind of man I want to be, nor is the man most men would want to be WITH.

  25. FizziekruntNT says

    And to everyone else who’s got a firm grasp on reality and diversity…

    ♥♥♥ Rock it, Bitches! ♥♥♥

    We’re very fortunate to be witnessing these scenes and anyone that finds these characters distasteful or not to their personal liking is, well, just sad and unfortunate.

  26. notshychirev says

    I’m fascinated by what appears to be an ongoing debate on the appropriateness of fey gays. There are thousands upon thousands of ethnicities in the world–different cultures with different norms of behavior. Why on earth does the gay community have to buy into the idea that there is only one appropriate way to be gay?

    For a minority group that is, in most of the world, still on the fringe of society to further marginalize parts of its own community for failure to subscribe to particular norms of masculinity is, well, ludicrous. Much of the rest of the world says that about ALL of us. Why should we engage in our own version of ‘smear the queer’ too? We are butch and fey and everything in between….bully for us, and for Kurt–a three dimensional fey boy who is far more than his flounces and pouts, but no less a man because of them.

    There is yet another disturbing trend in many of the comments here and elsewhere in our community these days…the definition of what a “good gay” should be is so often stated in terms that are limited to people just like the speaker or to people the speaker is attracted to. That is both narcissistic and, again, borrows a trope from the homophobes–we are defined only by our dicks and what makes them hard. That is certainly a part of who we are, but not all by a long shot. Sure, let’s celebrate who we are attracted to–but that doesn’t mean everyone else is sub-human or unworthy of our respect and friendship.

    I’m charmed by the Kurt/Blaine storyline. I have no idea where it’s going and look forward to finding out. But the reality is–these are two scared boys trying to find their way, and miracle of miracles, they’ve found they aren’t alone on the journey–and apparently they decide to sing a flirty Christmas song, perhaps simply because they can without getting beaten up for singing it together. Bravo for them.

    Now can’t we all just enjoy the song, enjoy the shocking lack of outrage that is accompanying this storyline, and have a Happy Hanukah and a Merry Christmas (or whatever holiday floats your boat)?


  27. QJ201 says

    The trolls on here bitching about Kurt’s lack of masculinity are NO BETTER than the high school bullies targeting gay kids. It’s disgusting, and just totally f*cked up.

    Just as f*cked up as these “butch” bottoms who cry out “f*ck my p*ssy” while you pound them.

  28. says


    “….There are enough representations of gay people out there…”


    Where. name just 1 non nellie representative of gay men in a tv show or movie

    just 1

  29. a scientist says

    Guuuuuuurl, you ladies are feisty. Your panties are all in a bunch over my annoyance with a dramatically over feminized gay boy on TV. The jump to my internalized homophobia and lack of love for real humans (in life) is impressive.

    Jay, sweetie, you sound smoking hot. No doubt Kurt would swoon over you.

  30. crispy says

    “Where. name just 1 non nellie representative of gay men in a tv show or movie

    just 1″

    You can’t be serious. That gay cop on “Southland” is about as butch as they get.

  31. Rob says

    @ Rob

    I’m with you, brother. I’m almost 62 and enjoy the hell out of this show. If somethinig this groundbreaking had been on American TV when I was in high school, the GLBT community might be living in a different environment today. I think it’s very gutsy of Ryan Murphy and his associates to get FOX to air this show with its gay story lines. Of course, the excellent ratings and resultant high ad prices the show gets every week doesn’t hurt. Kudos to GLEE’s creators, actors and production crew for making life a bit more enjoyable for at least one hour each Tuesday evening.

  32. Brad says

    There’s a lot of a holes on this forum. Nothings ever enough for you people. Always a bunch of critics. A hugely poluar prime time network show has multiple gay characters singing several romantic duets together and all you do is complain. Maybe Kurt, playing a 15 year old boy, is not meant to be your sexual fantasy. Maybe he’s just supposed to represent one of thousands of types of people that exist in this world. He’s effeminate, so what? There are effeminate men in the world, why should a character on tv not represent some of them? Jesus you people make me sick to my stomach. How can you be so judgmental of somebody who is different from the “gay” you think people are supposed to be? Hypocrites.

  33. Ted B. (Charging Rhino) says

    “….I never thought I’d see the day where two men sang a Christmas/love song duet on national TV – regardless of orientation.”

    I have the vague recollection of Bing Crosby and Dean Martin singing “It’s Cold Outside” on one or the other’s Christmas Special over 35-years ago. Both in tuxedoes, drinking Scotch (it was the late 60′, early 70′), and the “Baby”-line delivry was in the masculine Cool Cat, 60’s Rat Pack version of “..Baby”.

  34. Tim says

    I’m guessing Mstroz didn’t read the replies before running his mouth AGAIN. Jay, well done on all your comments. Points well made and every one of you should be reading them.

    As far as a “good gay”, well the only definition of that is the person that is being true to themselves without being self destructive or harmful to others. Don’t care if you’re camp, queeny, super flamboyant, butch, tough, muscled, whatever. As long as that is the person you are in your heart, then you are a “good person”. Regardless.

  35. Phil says

    Some have mentioned the imbalance of fem/butch portrayals in TV/movies IN GENERAL. I don’t think any one show should be expected to redress this by using exclusively butch gay characters. I only think screenwriters should be fair for their particular show. And I think Glee does represent the spectrum: the closeted jock, Karofsky, and the two characters who are out, Kurt and Blain. So what’s the problem? By the way, a lot of straight male viewers might not find Kurt annoying at all. You’d be surprised.

  36. slippy says

    Let me get all these Goldie Locks and the Three Bears comments ( heehee) right-it’s “TOO gay and nellie “-it’s not sexy enough – no chemistry” etc. etc etc. On a day when all the news media is covering hearings on DADT -we see two high school TEENS yes -they are playing 16-17 year olds ( and remember guys -Kurt was just “kissed ” a few episodes ago. ) In a room at The Dalton Academy sing a DUET to a classic Hollywood LOVE SONG- an old fashioned song of flirting and slow seduction if you will). AND this is going to be shown on NETWORK TV during PRIME TIME and horror of horror’s on the episode that honors the celebration of our lord JEEBUS’s birth .The Christmas show -and you guys can’t see the historic impact of this because one doesn’t fit your own personal definition of how a 16 year old who is still exploring and finding their identify should act. Well this one’s just right with me and this Goldie Locks is happy -the end

  37. Jay says

    Kudos to Tim, notshychirev, A Scientist, FizziekruntNT, and the others who are open and accepting of all in our community. Stories on the same page as this one include a Portland, Oregon man beaten in anti-gay assault and the fact that we’re still struggling to get support for the repeal of DADT. How can we expect the rest of the world to get over its prejudices if we can’t get over our own?

  38. mad1026 says

    @ Jeff in NC I agree; Kurt and Kurofsky are the next super couple. I see Kurt helping Kurofsky “come out.” Ryan Murphy hinted that Kurt’s bf would be a football player, didn’t he?

  39. DR says

    Some people just aren’t happy. No gays, and they bitch. Give them gays, and they complain that they’re too “nellie” or “butch” or “not perfect and above everyone else” or really, what this comes down to, “not just like me”.

    There are a number of openly gay and bi male tv characters today; 90210, Southland, Spartacus, Glee, Torchwood all have gay/bi men….just regular guys who happen to be gay. Glee and Modern Family have guys on the feminine side of the spectrum. We have a decent variety, and we just keep getting more. I’m pretty happy about that.

    You just watched a video of two gay teens serenading each other. This is the second time Kurt has been serenaded by Blaine. Kurt is without a doubt the most well-rounded character on the show and I am thrilled to see this relationship developing each week. When else has this happened on network television?

    What more do you want? If you want to watch guys with no character just jump into bed with each other and fulfill some “butch male” stereotype or affectation, then go watch the soft-core porn shows known as “Dante’s Cove” and “The Lair”… lots of sex and boring characters who just look pretty because they look like they stepped out of bad porn movies.

    Can we just accept that this is an important time on tv for this show and this character and be happy we have lots of different types of openly gay men on lots of different tv shows? Fine, if you don’t like Kurt, watch another, you have options.

    I may not act like or be interested in a guy like Kurt, but that doesn’t make him “bad”. There’s a reason Chris Colfer was nominated for an Emmy and ought to be nominated a second time around. That’s what I care about, and I’m comfortable enough to enjoy him even at his nelliest.

  40. Phil says

    If the last sentence in my first post was a little vague, let me spell it out. Pose the question, “Could you imagine a roll in the hay with either Blain or Kurt?” A fem gay man might approach this film clip in a tolerant way and say, “Kurt?! Well, different strokes for different folks.” Or a fem gay man might be annoyingly intolerant and say, “I don’t find Kurt attractive, so they should cut the character from the show.” When presented with the same question I posed above, the majority of male viewers, who are straight-identified, would give you an entirely different answer. Does that spell it out l-e-t-t-e-r b-y l-e-t-t-e-r?

  41. AdamA says

    Yeesh! Some seriously problematic anti-girly-boy sentiment on here. Great: you are “manly” or prefer “manly” guys. Good for you. It doesn’t entitle you to be a douche!

    That said, yes, they have very little sexual chemistry. I wouldn’t be surprised if they keep Criss around in a strictly mentorish role.

  42. V says

    how about that “jock” on 90210? we’ve seen that played out so many times -esp in the 90s. zzzzzzz. i mean, id totally give it to him in his bum but wouldnt give him my #.

  43. sitdownandshutup says

    If there is a bigger group of jaded, negative, sour, bitter and constantly complaning group of “adults,” on the internet, or anywhere else for that matter…I’ve never seen them!!

    Some people, are never ever satisfied!!


    This is one of the awesome things I’ve ever seen on TV! To all the people who are just complaining and nitpicking, I have some news for you: people will still be talking about what a wonderful breakthrough this scene was 50 years from now. I wonder how many people, 50 years from now, will be talking about some angry and hypercritical comments on a blog? Millions of people all around the world are going to see this… and of the hundreds of thousands of gay teens who see it, it will give at least a few of them the inspiration to go on. It’ll let them know that there is hope and that they’re not alone. Who can knock that?

  45. says

    Jeez, people… bitch, bitch, bitch.

    It’s f*cking GLEE, for Chrissakes! I’m sure when Martin Scorsese directs and episode, it will be totally different, but until then, lighten up.

    For those of you who are upset at an effeminate gay person on TV… really? Where are you from that you’ve never seen one of these guys before? They’re out there… I’m a bear, hang w/bears and some of those big, burly men open their mouths and make Kurt look like Dirty Harry. There’s a great, big wonderful world of gays of all types out there–if we expect the rest of society to be accepting of us, we should be accepting of all of us.

    I found it charming and fun.

  46. Jeff in NC says

    That’s funny that you saw the hand-thing with Blaine as him trying to tell Kurt to tone down the hand motions. I saw it as Blaine caught up in the moment and wanting to also “pull” an Eva Peron and was caught unawares that he too was lifting his arm up, a la Eva, and forced himself to put it down. Too bad I already erased it and I can’t go back to look, although it’s probably on youtube.

    On another note, although this isn’t new or news, but I find the gay community to be so self-hating and judgemental of each other. Kurt’s voice and mannerisms are not being “played;” that is the way Chris Colfer speaks, PERIOD! I have seen him in interviews where he says he wishes he were more like Kurt, but the voice is the same. At any rate, his character and his acting have improved exponentially and he does an excellent job in the part.

    We should give it a rest and let it be. We should celebrate that there is even a character like this on TV, not knock it down.

    As far as the song itself, I have only listened to it once so far on the CD and there is more to it than this. Off the top of my head there is a line Kurt sings about a “cigarette,” which I thought out of character, but most likely part of the original lyric.

  47. steve talbert says

    I think the back and forth in the comments mirror what goes on in real life. Assimilate or embrace your difference? Acceptance by conforming to the majority view or acceptance by the majority coming to view all differences as good.

    Blaine can learn from Kurt how to be ok with being different and not confirm. Kurt can learn from Blaine about how to go along when it gets you what you want, and Dave can learn to accept others AND himself. EVERYONE can benefit from seeing that play out on national TV on a show mainly watched by teen girls (and middle-aged gay men for some unknown reason… LOL)

  48. Ty says

    I’m surprised and saddened by the negativity towards feminine-acting guys here. If you don’t like these qualities, then take a hike. Take your internalized homophobia elsewhere.

  49. steve talbert says

    Also, I think they edited out the Lips Are Delicious comment so they could do away with the cigarette line…. No boys kissing and no teen smoking… they will get enough complaints just by what is being shown already…

  50. Marc says

    I’m cool with Kurt’s nellie-hood. It’s not to my taste, but I don’t have any more problem with him being a bit fey than I did with the character of Jack on Will & Grace.

  51. steve talbert says

    PLUS.. they are signing AT SCHOOL where someone can come in at anytime… hence the glance over the shoulder before moving in closer. This is a good balance… otherwise, after kissing there won’t be much more than full on sex…. LOL

  52. Jeff in NC says

    @ MAD1026, yes.
    When it was first being “leaked” they said they were looking for a boyfriend for both Mercedes and Kurt and it was said that Kurt’s would be a jock and they would end up being a “power couple” in the school.
    I’m glad that Darren Criss has been signed as a regular, because he is so totally cute (esp. in his Dalton jacket and slicked back hair), but I do think Karofsky will come to Kurt for help and we will see this tender side to him that Kurt will fall in love with. PLUS, it will be the most unexpected outcome b/c everyone thinks that Blaine will be his bf.
    This season was really sucking, IMHO, until recently and when Karofsky kissed him, I was really surprised and totally not expecting that. And, since he is such a big jock, no one will mess with him [when he comes out] and there will be less homophobia at the school b/c of him.

  53. walter says

    question? why can’t this be taken for what is a simple song sung by guys. why do we always have to read roles. hidden meanings into everything. how can gay teens learn to love themselves , when we can’t even get along on silly issues.

  54. Jeff in NC says

    Well, you’re right. I found it on youtube and I see that Blaine was signaling Kurt not to do it and he doesn’t, but at the end of the sing he just lifts up one hand.

  55. STROP says

    For a second I thought I was on the wrong website?
    “May as well be a woman?” [I’m sorry, is there is something wrong about being a woman? Is that some sort of put down?’]
    “…way to Nellie”???
    “Girly Boys”???

    C’mon people! Think about what you are saying before you say it.
    Homophobic heterosexuals I can handle–but homophobic GLBT and homophobic GLBT-friendly people???

  56. rascal says

    Charming, groundbreaking, delightful. Although it’s both teasing and disappointing that there was no real affection (not even a TOUCH) at all, it seems (from reports, at any rate) that the writers haven’t decided where this relationship is going.

    Now to the fey. First of all, Kurt is not by any means the most fey gay out there, not by a long shot. Second, fey gays have their admirers, too, boys. Personally, I’d like to make Kurt scream ecstatic high notes all night long.

  57. says

    jesus, what is with all you bitter bitches? fecking hell. if you can’t enjoy this cute video, then move on, rather than criticizing two kids who are more talented, more famous and more well-adjusted than you likely will ever be.

  58. David says

    OMG, its a TV show! Complaining about a character on TV has nothing to do with internalized homophobia or homophobia in general. Ever watch a something and wish a character was doing something differently or wish the character was gay or smarter or something else?

    Get off your holier than thou fucking high horse. You all are so amazingly evolved, I am so impressed.

  59. sysm29 says

    I agree with the people that said this was wonderful to see two boys sing this song together. Its amazing how far we have come. We take everything for granted these days – Thanks to Ryan Murphy, the success of the show, a supportive TV network (Fox, believe it or not), and an audience that likes that Kurt is a little fabulous – we have this scene broadcast to gay kids all over America, who now have at least SOMETHING – more than we EVER had when we were young.

    Also, to the people that complain about how feminine Kurt is its homophobic to call him “nellie” (c’mon who uses those words anymore?) and bad for the community. Portraying feminine gay men on TV is not bad. It’s reality. Kurt’s a sympathetic character. He’s a lead. He gets to belt out showtunes. He gets kissed by hairy teen jocks in locker rooms. How is that not progressive?

    Gay characters on TV are often very feminine and flamboyant and there’s nothing wrong with that. To hear gay people say there is really shows that many gay men are really not that tolerant at all of feminine men.

    one more thing: When most straight men make fun of gay people they’re making fun of femininity along with the same-sex attraction. Femininity isn’t separated from homosexuality.

    We’re all part of the GLBT community and none of us are perfect. Most gay men are not tough, masculine, muscular str8-acting men. Many gay men are more feminine than many women.

    So take pride in being fabulous. There’s nothing to be ashamed of. (and judging by your comments, half of you are still in the closet)

  60. Curt says

    Some guys are effeminate. Get over it. Unbelievable with all the struggles we as gay people are going through to be criticized as not being butch enough. I’m disgusted by you guys and ashamed. Please don’t comment again.

  61. Adrian says


    “The boy and girl in this clip are adorable”
    POSTED BY: DAVID | DEC 3, 2010 1:18:04 PM

    “OMG, its a TV show! Complaining about a character on TV has nothing to do with internalized homophobia or homophobia in general.”
    POSTED BY: DAVID | DEC 3, 2010 2:27:37 PM

    Deny all you want, but your internalized homophobia is showing. You’re not very convincing. Ha ha!

  62. says

    what i see is the possibility that being gay is not about masc.,fem. or even wearing the latest couture. Perhaps, Kirk is learning that those things do not define a person’s sexuality.

    Previously, Kirk was a little over the top and campy with his personality and the way he dressed.I am willing to bet MOST on here, went through that faze of coming out and have since settled into a middle ground. Most us can turn the “fey” on and off, depending on the environment. And now that he has to wear a uniform, he is now “one of many”, instead of “The Gay Guy”. Humbling and liberating at the same time.

  63. says

    OMG. Some of you people are just terrible. Get over yourselves. He has a high voice. That doesn’t make him a ‘girl’ or mean he’s overly feminine.

    And he got nominated for a damn Emmy (and probably will again), for heaven’s sake. No one’s taking him as a ‘clown.’

    I seriously can’t stand some of the bitter ‘queens’ in the gay community. Give me a high-voiced ‘clown’ like Kurt’s character over them any day of the week.

  64. freestuffffff says

    Dang. What I meant to say of course was, “Femilicious delicate boys do indeed have an audience; cunty pathological narcissists who hate on them have an audience too, but NOT as big.” So pissed I messed up my own glorious pithiness. Aie.

  65. steve talbert says

    This is actually a very good discussion point. When I was in high school and dealing with how I looked at guys, my only reference was how girls looked at guys like you saw day to day or in the movies. I thought I was SUPPOSED to be a little feminine. As I learned about myself, had more experience, and became comfortable I just did what I liked – which isn’t all that feminine.

    Another very important issue this brings up is that just because you meet someone else who is gay, that DOESN’T mean you have to have sex with them to be their friend. This idea is behind the scary shower stories in DADT repeal – gays can’t control themselves to have sex. It’s a terrible message that needs to be un-reinforced as much as possible.

  66. Jack says

    A lot of you guys really need to rethink your comments on here.
    I’m a helpline counselor for The Trevor Project and happen to know that quite a few of those kids come to this blog frequently as an outlet to feel “connected” to the gay community.
    I’m sure they clicked on this post due to the Glee subject, and I am HORRIFIED at the thought that they may have read some of your comments.
    Is this what we’re trying to convey to them?!?!
    Stick it out. “It Gets Better”
    Because once you get through the hell for you that is High School, you get to deal with fellow gay men treating you in the same fashion?!?
    I’m appalled. Really.
    And if any of those kids did read these comments…
    Please ignore all of these guys. You’re great.
    “Nellie” or not.

  67. LAXJFK says

    I loved it–thought it was adorable. Those two boys remind me of myself and my boyfriend years ago in boarding school. I don’t know why some of you are so bitter about a really wonderful clip.

  68. jaragon says

    You gotta love a show in which two gay men sing a traditional holiday love song to each other but it was more cute than hot. Darren Criss was born to be a star.

  69. stevetalbert says

    @jaragon. Darren Criss is talented… but he has been in theater and music since before 6 years old and went after school to a theater program in san francisco and got a degree at UMich in drama… so his hard work and dedication for basically 16 years is showing..

  70. Snow says

    Every character on Glee is a stereotype. Every single one. Over time, we’ve seen glimpses of other facets to their personalities to learn that people aren’t always what they appear to be on the surface. We also see that people grow and change as realities collide with their pre-conceived ideals. There have been many times I find I don’t like a character for a couple of episodes as we’ve gotten to know them and they go through their growing pains. That’s pretty much like real life.

    I thought this duet was very cute and interesting because we don’t know the complete context of the scene so the storyline is ambiguous to me. One speculation is that Kurt isn’t feeling comfortable at Dalton and wants to return to McKinley and Blaine is trying to convince him to stay because it’s safe there. We’ll only know the full meaning of the scene when we see the show.

    I remember going to my first Gay Pride Parade many, many years ago and sitting on the curb in West Hollywood next to a guy about my age who was an auto mechanic from Riverside with missing teeth – which was a far cry from the pretty gym boy of my image of the ideal gay man – and which was fairly inconceivable to most people’s image of a gay man at the time. We both got drunk and had a great time and my stereotype image of auto mechanics from Riverside was changed forever.

  71. MadM@ says

    To criticize the character of Kurt for his place on the gender spectrum is both homophobic and misogynist. Nothing any of you mouth breathing trolls produce from that void you call a mind is going to convince me otherwise.

    I wish I could come on a queer blog and escape the condemnation and homophobia, but I guess not…. c’est la vie

  72. TANK says

    When’s that colfer chick gonna get the vagina surgery? GAD, it’s painful to watch!

    The irony is that those calling for “diversity” in defending more effeminate gay men and their perpetual parade on the media for laughs, etc, is that these representations couldn’t be any more two dimensional and generic…they are types without even the pretense of nuance. Diversity=stereotype, and apparently stereotype=good. Now, of course stereotypes exist for a reason, it’s just that nelly queen has more than had its day…and if you’re effeminate, you don’t have to be obnoxious and catty…a send up of masculinity, do you?

  73. Andrew says

    @Jay Everything you said is 100% corrected. Colfer didn’t modify his voice to be Kurt he actually sounds like that. There are many varieties of gay and if the more effeminate ones bother you ten please keep your self-hate to yourself. We have too much adversity as a community to have to deal with it from within as well.

  74. Andrew says

    I think, from what I can gather from most of the back and forth, is that one side is trying to support the equal representation through the use of all types of gay characters, while the other is pointing to the fact that there are many examples of flamboyant personalities but very few that represent other types.

    As someone who can’t stand Glee because it’s just too camp for me— not because of Kurt’s character but the whole silliness of the show, and what I feel, a drop in writing since the middle of the first season— I think that Kurt does have a powerful message for those who are gay, in that they can be accepted by friends and family even through their struggles. They aren’t alone, and Kurt does appear as a multi-faceted character. He may be ‘feminine’, but he’s also a singer, dancer, was on the football team, suffered the death of his mother, etc.

    The other side does have a point in that in terms of stereotyping, Gays have now become the go-to for television series to poke fun. Just look at most minority groups and their associations on television. African-Americans still are stereotyped, even after many years of fighting hard to accomplish themselves and to be taken seriously.

    I would like to see a gay character like me (which I think, in essence, is what some people here are feeling). Is this asking for a lot? Yes, of course it is! But I don’t feel like I can identify with Kurt’s experiences at all, and I think it would be amazing if they had a Gay character who was ‘gay’, but that was not one of the most evident portions of his storyline. I can think of very few Main Characters (some of the ones listed previously were non-essential characters) who were not made to have sexuality be the scope of their character development.

    That has, in fact, been my biggest complaint with the show. Most character development has occurred through creating stereotypes and then exploring facets of their personalities, rather than having personalities and storylines that were only influenced, not focused on them.

    But then, it’s a show made for high schoolers, and I just spent entirely too long writing an observation about it.

  75. paul says

    What the hell is wrong with you people? Seriously, this is a sweet duet…there is no guarantee these boys are together or not, but it doesn’t matter. they are sweet and cute…they don’t have to fit the mold of anything…they are just being who they are!! For crying out loud…bitch, bitch, bitch!! You people are never fucking satisfied!!

  76. AJ says

    This is completely groundbreaking television that brought tears to my eyes. No they don’t jump each others bones and make out but they are both gay characters flirting a little bit while harmonizing beautifully and calling each other baby. Remember the days where Ellen’s coming out episode caused such a stir? Oprah said AGAIN a few months back that she has never gotten more hate mail during her career than when she played Ellen’s therapist in that episode. Take it in, guys, quit being cynical. Listen to these boys SING to each other, dammit!!

  77. Mudduck says

    Yes, this discussion is about fictional characters in a television series. But the part of Kurt was actually patterned on Chris Colfer, the actor. That’s obvious if you’ve seen any Colfer interviews since he’s become a celebrity. This isn’t Franklin Pangborn doing his pansy bit. This is a young gay man cast close to type. The people who jumped right into these comments with demeaning and insulting remarks are doing the same thing as the high school bullies and fag bashers — policing gender expressions. This simply is naked cruelty. We’re supposed to be making things better.

  78. TANK says

    Yes, anyone who could possibly take exception to chris colfer’s portrayal of gay youth in terms of its perpetuation of tried and true stereotypes is WORSE THAN HITLER, GODDAMNIT! HITLER! WORSE THAN!

  79. TANK says

    LOL! …of some non-flamboyant gay guy being forced to sing showtunes and mince about to a pack of effeminate gay men holding a gun trained at him, demanding that he, “make it better…or else”.

  80. Jay says

    Sorry but the Chris Colfer character is fluttering his eyelids and practically SKIPPING around the room. What straight person is going to take him seriously as a man–and what gay man would find that behavior atrractive. I call bullshit on all you guys defending femme dudes. I think anyone has the right to be effeminate and should not be condemned for it. However, truth be told, most of the guys here acting all outraged would never be interested in a guy who acted like that. This is especially true because most guys like this are mean, bitchy, high drama, and high maintenance. Not exactly the package deal I’m looking for.

  81. Toto says

    Glee might have characters that are stereotypes and plenty of camp but its there to be broken down by honest drama. Having such concentrated personalities in close proximity causes conflict which is a lot more interesting and memorable to a viewer than if they were all “normal” and adjusted.

    I like Kurt’s character for exactly who he is. Unapologetically gay, unable to hide or assimilate. I dont find him unbelievably sexy, but his character has a pride and self respect that is very attractive. The jock or “normal” guy who is gay has already been done enough and avoids a lot of the irrational and hateful feelings people have of glbt people in terms of gender perception all together. It still surprises me to hear gays that give credit to the bigoted idea that fem = wrong instead of a “why the hell should it matter to you” attitude.

  82. TJ says

    Fast clap for Jay, and many others. For Tank? It’s a not much love day. People are who they are – when they think it’s right for them, but also because that’s just who they are. There are extremes and embarrassments for both feminine and masculine behavior, but also many positive attributes. I think that this show not only is entertaining, but also that it is pushing forward acceptance. As many others have noted, more than one “type” is represented. And that has happened, like, when else? A flirtatious duet between two male characters, in prime time, not for laughs, or drama, but for fun, in the most positive sense- and it’s leaked ahead of time to generate buzz (of the positive variety). Again- when else?

  83. TJ says

    And to clarify – the Jay comments I’m lauding bear no resemblance to the one visible a few posts above mine. Trust, when I first felt such a crush, skipping is exactly what my heart wanted the rest of me to perform.

  84. Eshto says

    I want every whiny fag here who criticizes other gay men for being too “girly” or “nelly” to back it up with video footage proving that you’re a fucking grizzled lumberjack living in the mountains, killing bears with your bare hands. If you have the nerve to judge other people’s masculinity you must be a fucking paragon of it yourself. Right?

    I’m waiting.

  85. piernudo says

    OK, I’m not a hater. I love Kurt’s character. But I have to say that I was a little disappointed with the song. I was really looking forward to it. In fact, I was planning to include it in my annual Christmas mix CD that I give to family and friends for the holidays. I especially wanted to play it for my gay friends who don’t watch “Glee” and who would be excited about hearing “Baby, it’s Cold Outside” performed by two guys. But when I first heard the song, I couldn’t get over how high Kurt’s voice is. He sounds just like a woman. Many of those unfamiliar with the recording would probably think it is a man and a woman singing. So, unfortunately, to me this song doesn’t stand out because it doesn’t sound like two men singing a romantic song to each other.

  86. IonMusic says

    GUYS…The fem bashing is RAT BASTARD!!!

    Rat bastard has homophobic, self hatred and posts under every thread about how he has disdain for fem gay men. HE POSTS UNDER DIFFERENT NAMES. Do not be fooled!

    This RAT BASTARD character is a nut job fixated on gays all being “manly”….please realize this is not the commentary of various posters but one hateful crazed wack job.

  87. Pickles says

    Non Fey Gay Characters on TV in 2010 (Picking up where Jay left off)

    Heath and Grant (Greek)

    Luke , Noah, Reid (As The World Turns)

    Oliver and Kyle (One Life to Live)

    Brian and Steve (Sarah Silverman Program)

    Austin (Ugly Betty)

    Griffin and Peter (Secret Life of American Teenagers

    Zane and Riley (Degrassi)

    That’s just in 2010. I’m sure I missed some but of the shows I watch, that’s a pretty long list.

    Boys should get to be whomever the frack they are and be proud and out and loved. But this idea that there is only ONE kind of gay male character on television is not only inaccurate but about 20-years outdated.

  88. Atlantalawyer says

    Why do “straight acting” gay men always want to SCREAM out to everyone (especially fellow gays) how “straight acting” they are?
    From my many personal experiences, those gay men hyper sensitive about maculinity and all gay men act in a “straight acting” manner have never really come to terms with their sexuality, have never fully accepted the fact that they are gay or what gay is…and yes, internalized homophobia is bolted in their idenity.
    “Straight acting” gay men are usually the type to go out of their way to appear straight out & about, strictly be in the company of gay men who are straight appearing, and are generally obsessed with the notion of being straight percieved by the public….minus the bedroom
    To me, and most all HEALTHY MINDED gay men…being fully out means not giving a sh*t…not giving a damn when others think I’m gay, or if I have an effiminate moment, or if the amazing friend I befriended happens to be fem.
    Most healthy minded gay men who are OUT realize the essence of coming out is being less judgmental toward yourself and the community you just became a part of.
    “Straight acting” gay men notably have one foot out the closets door looking with envy at the gay men who don’t give a sh*t, and the other foot shivering inside the closet for fear of being identified as gay (GASP!)

  89. MitchelJ. says

    “str8 acting” is just that…an act. If those “str8 acting” gay men were truly straight they:
    A.) Would not have to announce your masculinity to the world.
    B.) Would not give a hoot how others act
    C.) You REALLY wanna be “straight acting”….go skrew a chick and eat her out. Now THAT’S straight acting, not a *gay* hurling ignorance toward other gay men for appearing gay. That’s called delusion, self hatred, and serious therapy which can’t be cured on a comments section of a blog.

    There have been fem gay men throughout history, there will always be fem gay men throughout history, they are part of our community just as elderly gays, overweight gays, shy gays, rich gays, poor gays, outspoken gays …are part of our community. If you take issue over how someone acts in the GAY community, my dear friend, you picked the wrong community to be a part of cuz this here community of ours is ALLLLLLLLLL about embracing our differences fem or not.

  90. -DC05- says

    Pickles, it’s not that “masculine” gay men think there is only one representation of gay characters on television, it’s that they want all gay men to act the same; in so many words, like closet cases. To shed any element of themselves that identifies themselves as gay. These are the same men who make idiotic statements like “I don’t wear my sexuality on my sleeve” or “I don’t have a rainbow bumper sticker on my car” and where do you think they get these cliches and mentality from? They’ve sadly adopted it from hetrosexuals, homo hating hetrosexuals, and they don’t even realize it.

    I guess my question to the O so manly gay men who commented in the first page is, how is your belittling of a gay person for their mannerisms and insulting them with name calling any different than the anti gay bullies who tormented our gay suicide victims?

    Either you are for or against anti gay bullying, and you can’t exactly deounce anti gay bullying all while calling a effimine gay man a “nellie, queen, girl, fag, ick, get a sex change”

    Issues. Work em’ out fellas.

  91. Len says

    Ya’ bitch cause there are no gay characters on TV….then when they finally “break the wall”….ya’ bitch because he’s not portrayed they way you think he should be ( although he is very much like any number of people that you socialize with every day)…then when it all gets a little forward momentum….ya’ bitch because the characters aren’t humping like rabbits in a cage….for what it’s worth…if you stop bitching and just watch…you might see that it is very much like most of our lives…tangled, confusing at times…and often entertaining….

  92. freestuffffff says

    Glee is the stylized musical version of Degrassi: The Next Generation. 2002-2007 had tortured freshman twink Marco Del Rossi going through his painful coming out process and eventually hooking up with senior jock hockey star Dylan Michalchuk. The writing and acting alternated between dreadful and brilliant, but the overall result was gripping. Anyone who thinks high school soap operas like Glee, Degrassi, 90210 are only made for and watched by high schoolers is kidding themselves.


    @ATLANTALAWYER: Thank you so much for your thoughtful and insightful comment. It’s nice to see an intelligent post in this discussion. I agree with you 100%. For many years, I was a macho “straight acting” and “straight looking” gay guy. I felt nothing but disgust for “effeminate” gays and people who went to gay pride parades wearing rainbow speedos or whatever. The whole time I was so full of self-hatred I don’t know how I survived. So I actually feel sorry for the “manly” gay men here who are always bashing “nelly” queens. Once they actually do accept themselves then their bitterness and false sense of superiority will go away, hopefully.

  94. Jayson says

    They should have found a way for Kurt to stand over a subway grate and let the air from the passing trains blow up his skirt. By the end of next season he’ll probably be dressing like Carmen Miranda doing the samba during musical numbers with a bowl of fruit on his head. I’m sure this will get even more queens squealing with delight over this positive portrayal of gay men on mainstream television.

  95. Iz says

    I love this song, plus, I love the two characters, Kurt, and Blaine….I know blaine better as ‘Harry Potter’ in avpm. Either way I am upset that they cut out the third verse….I belive…but they did cut one of the verses. Other then that I loved it….but the full song would be nice…(favorite part of the song actually)

  96. says

    man I have to say some people that comment here really have issues. I would like to point out that Chris should get credit for being openly gay at such a tender age ON TV.You may find him too feminine, however there are men out there that like their men that way, to each his own. Lastly remember you can say whatever you like on your computer as no one can see you, but I would bet that most of you with evil comments about Chris have done zip for the Gay community.

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