Three Men Face Charges for Distributing Leaflet Calling for Execution of Gays Outside UK Mosque
Three men are facing hate crime chrges in the UK for distributing anti-gay leaflets outside a mosque in Derby, UK and for placing the leaflets in private mailboxes in July 2010:
Ihjaz Alie, 41, Mehboob Hussain, 44, and Umer Javed, 37 (pictured), were charged on Thursday night and appeared at Derby Magistrates' Court on Friday to face charges of distributing threatening written material to stir up hatred on the grounds of sexual orientation after handing out leaflets outside a mosque.
Another two men, Razwan Javed, 30, and Kabir Ahmed, 27, were charged in December over accusations they also handed out the leaflet called The Death Penalty? outside a mosque in Derby, the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) said.
The leaflet is understood to have called for homosexuals to be executed.
According to the CPS lawyer: "This is the first ever prosecution for this offence and it is the result of close working between the Crown Prosecution Service and Derbyshire Police."
Revolting.
It's interesting to see the difference in how the British view the right to freedom of speech compared to here in the states. I'm not quite sure what I think about that. At first blush, it does appear appropriate to restrict this kind of speech, calling for violence against innocent citizens. But I can see how in the wrong hands or in a different situation this kind of approach might produce unintended consequences.
Posted by: The Milkman | Jan 31, 2011 9:54:15 AM
..hey if thats the case..how would these muslims like it - IF someone were handing out leaflets asking for ALL Muslims to be deported and or executed? Pathetic! Religion - the Poison of Mankind's Intelligence.
Posted by: Disgusted American | Jan 31, 2011 10:36:07 AM
I think inciting violence, like encouraging gays be murdered, is unacceptable and should not be covered as free speech. To me, it's a criminal conspiracy.
However, you gotta walk a really fine line. I do believe people should be able to otherwise say what's on their mind, even if it's offensive to me or you. IMO the Brits, Euros, Canadians,etc., go too far in restricting speech or anything deemed un-PC.
Posted by: RATBASTARD | Jan 31, 2011 10:36:23 AM
The milkman
The US supreme court rulling
Schenk v. United States 1919 covers dangerous free speech that serves no purpose = false speech that recklessly endangers lives
You can not yell fire in a crowded theater when there is no fire
One would think calling for the execution of US citizens (gay citizens) if this had occurred here would be considered unlawful
BUT evangelicals in the US get away with it every other day so probably not
Posted by: mstrozfckslv@yahoo.com | Jan 31, 2011 10:47:34 AM
The leaflets are calling for homosexuals in general to be executed, not Bob Johnson of 123 Main Street. Their prosecution wouldn't stand in the US, nor should it. Their behavior is reprehensible, but it makes me glad to live in a country with a Bill of Rights.
Posted by: Landon | Jan 31, 2011 10:55:40 AM
kill everyone who isn't like me or believes as i do. interesting concept!!!
Posted by: gregg | Jan 31, 2011 11:09:51 AM
BUT evangelicals in the US get away with it every other day so probably not
Posted by: mstrozfckslv@yahoo.com | Jan 31, 2011 10:47:34 AM
=========================
Not just evangelicals....all kinds of 'Radicals' play fast and loose with encouraging violence, and people have been hurt , even killed.
Posted by: ratbastard | Jan 31, 2011 11:25:26 AM
Religious extremists exist in every religion and everywhere. It's important to publicize their hateful homophobic actions and, when necessary (and permissable), make their endangering actions into a criminal case. I fully support this move in the UK.
Posted by: Rob | Jan 31, 2011 11:27:03 AM
Sorry but the UK has it right on this issue. The law stops you threatening, causing or inciting hatred. The law itself is absolutely fine. The only issue is when some organisations, be they police or local authorities, mis-use it for things it was never intended for. These cases do make the courts and are usually thrown out, setting a precedent. For such difficult to administer laws such cases will happen for a while.
Casually saying you think group X should be shot is WAY different from organising a public display and leaflet drop in an attempt to rally the masses into action.
Posted by: Rovex | Jan 31, 2011 11:38:26 AM
Reason #325599879 for the UK, France and other civilized Western countries to close their borders to people from Muslim nations. In the security of their own homes, mosques, and 'cultural' centers, these people openly call for the destruction of gays, Jews, and pretty much everything the West stands for. Deport them back to whatever Stone Age country they came from.
Posted by: Brian | Jan 31, 2011 12:42:43 PM
Oh Brian, in your world the only homophobes are Muslims and other brown people, huh?
Posted by: sugarrhill | Jan 31, 2011 12:48:12 PM
There is a brand new word to allow the hatred to flourish in full vigor. It is called “islamophobia”. Is there naziphobia somewhere? Yeap, there must be. Good way to go and confuse the feeble minds. Allow the hatred to be concealed into freedom of religion. Next stop, the concentration camp. What am I saying? They didn’t decided yet what type of death we deserve.
Posted by: Lexxvs | Jan 31, 2011 12:52:56 PM
No, Sugarhill. What a boring, typical PC response. But the reality is, most Muslims are not accepting of gays. And every time you see reports of terrorist activities in the UK...*shocker*...Islamist are the main suspects. Why do you go move to Tehran or Islamabad or Riyadh and see how you're treated as a gay man (assuming you are one)? Have fun!
Posted by: Brian | Jan 31, 2011 12:54:40 PM
Good.
Posted by: Francis | Jan 31, 2011 1:06:48 PM
"In the security of their own homes, mosques, and 'cultural' centers, these people openly call for the destruction of gays, Jews, and..."
Well, Brian, the KKK, the Aryan Brotherhood/Nation and the Skinheads call for the murder of blacks, gays and Jews in this country. Can we get the Native Americans to deport them back to whatever brothels and debtors' prisons their ancestors from out of Britain, France, the Netherlands, etc.
Isn't it ever possible to criticize the extremists among a group of people without condemning the whole group?
What about Gay Muslims, Brian, do want them removed from the "Righteous" Western nations?
How convenient it is to forget history for the superior people in the West. You spend 300 years torturing the rest of the world, build a great standard of living for yourself, and now you've become the world's genteel and enlightened civilization: the Righteous West. Nobody likes the ugly part of history--especially Americans.
It took a few centuries of savagery by the Western nations to turn so many others on the planet into savages.
Posted by: Derrick from Philly | Jan 31, 2011 1:14:33 PM
Calling for the death penalty isn't the same as calling for murder. One is a *legally* legitimate part of the judicial process (depending on the country/state), and the other is a crime.
Look, I think these two guys are assholes like anyone else, I'm not a fan of the death penalty, and I think religion generally will make someone dumber before it makes them more thoughtful. But I don't see how this is inciting violence. It would be if they were telling people to take it into their own hands, but it sounds like they want the law changed to criminalize homosexuality and make it a capital offense.
Posted by: rafi | Jan 31, 2011 1:29:19 PM
Actually... It's hard to tell what exactly the three men currently charged were advocating. But what I wrote applies to the first two charged in December, at least.
Posted by: rafi | Jan 31, 2011 1:31:34 PM
Derrick: you should take all that pent up anger and frustration and channel it into helping the 'disenfranchised' youth that keep organizing those flash mobs in Philly (you know, the ones where 'urban' kids go into department stores and terrorize people and steal stuff). Oh wait, I'm sure 'Righteous' people are to blame for that as well.
Posted by: Brian | Jan 31, 2011 1:39:59 PM
"Oh, wait, I'm sure 'Righteous' people are to blame for that as well."
Presently, no. Historically, yes.
"pent up anger and frustration..."
Nope, I don't it. You don't need to be angry and frustrated when you know there are other versions of history that explain a lot of what goes on today. You just look at the "superior" people and say, "big deal."
Posted by: Derrick from Philly | Jan 31, 2011 1:48:22 PM
Let me sum up Derrick's point of view on history and politics: white people are to blame for everything.
This is boring. I'm signing off for the day. Cheers.
Posted by: Brian | Jan 31, 2011 2:03:29 PM
The early public persecution of Jews in post-WWI began in 1920, 13 years before the Nazi's took power and passed the first of many regulations affecting their Jewish population. As early as 1920, the NAZI party was raising money by selling a tobacco called Anti-Semit. (hey, Anti-Fag, anyone?) The lesson here is where there is smoke, there is fire. Passing out leaflets advocating the killing of a citizen who is somehow "different" in some way from the "norm" should carry a penalty. Maybe, if this were true in the USA, so many blacks would not have been lynched in the first half of the 20th century by the KKK and their followers.
Posted by: RAF | Jan 31, 2011 2:07:28 PM
@ BRIAN: Fail.
@ DERRICK FROM PHILLY: right on, but remember too, Native Americans held slaves, so it's not like they were wholly ethical.
Posted by: David R. | Jan 31, 2011 5:23:44 PM
Lets call for the "extermination" of arabs and Islam when THEY come to YOUR country! Lets see how they like THAT!!!!!!!
Posted by: shannon | Feb 1, 2011 1:01:08 AM
we are living in the 21st century man, and honestly i am not a fan of homosexualism but they are people and they deserve respect, everyone has a right to have his/her likes and dislikes.giving a death penalty for having sex is more than going over board, personally suggesting the death penalty for such an act deserves a death penalty.
Posted by: conference call | Feb 3, 2011 2:44:06 AM
I do think that all people deserve equality, as long as they don't try to lead people to believe in hatered, I mean I'm gay and I have no problem with people hating gays, just leave me alone, that's all I ask of those people
Posted by: nick | Feb 14, 2011 3:31:51 AM