1. Married in MA says

    He’s digging the hole deeper. He’s still saying the black people would have preferred putting their civil rights on a referendum! Yeah, right! And I guess that women would have wanted their right to vote put on the ballot in 1920. Seriously!? He should be doing some major back peddling.

  2. HadenoughBS says

    Sorry, Guv, but I don’t think you can finesse your way out of the unsensitive debacle of your own making regarding putting minorities civil rights to a public vote. As a privileged white male GOPer, after your “clarifying comments”, you still don’t get it.

  3. RonTEX says

    Lord, all of these privileged, white GOPer’s who have no idea what it means to be “other” and have to fight your ass off for everything are about to find out they are on the endangered list. He can say goodbye to whatever VP hopes he may have had.

  4. Caliban says

    He’s an idiot but I’m actually kind of GLAD he said what he did and that he’s defending it because it underlines the stupidity of putting the rights of any group to a vote. No matter how many times WE say it it never seems to sink in, so maybe it takes someone like Christie saying it as if it’s a rational argument before people really pay attention.

    Can you even imagine what it would be like if civil rights for black people had been voted on state by state? Even if you assume that eventually all states would have passed them, what horrible patchwork of laws would have been left behind so that merely by crossing a state line someone’s rights would increase or decrease, their marriage to a person of another race would invalid?

    Well you don’t really have to “imagine” it because that’s what it’s like for gay people today, married here, not married there, and DOMA making the whole thing practically a joke.

  5. Yeek says

    He’s either an idiot for making the comparison, or a genius for deliberately sabotaging himself and the anti-gay arguments that he has to publicly support as a Republican. My money’s on idiot.

  6. Jay says

    Wow – talk about living in his own little world. First he said something completely not only inaccurate but insulting…then to cover up his obvious lack of sensitivity to his black supporters (read voters) in his state, he came out and acknowledged that if put to a vote, it couldn’t have happened then: “The political climate in the South didn’t give them the option to have a referendum back then. They wished they would have had the option, but the political climate did not permit it, meaning they would not win.”

    But he STILL is staunchly holding to the idea that marriage equality should be put to a vote.

    “You see this round object? It has an organge-colored skin. When you break past the skin, it has an orange color interior, it’s really juicy with lots pulp, has a citrusy flavor, and it only grows on trees…mainly found in warmer climates like Florida or California…. Yeah, it’s an apple…. I don’t care what you think it’s called, it’s an apple.”

  7. Rick says

    “Lord, all of these privileged, white GOPer’s who have no idea what it means to be “other” and have to fight your ass off for everything are about to find out they are on the endangered list”

    And all those black people who DO know what it is like and who nevertheless oppose gay rights by larger margins than any other group, including “privileged white GOPers”. In California, 70% of them voted against same-sex marriage and in Mississippi and Alabama, the states where they suffered the most, more than 90% of them voted against same-sex marriage.

    Can we please dispense with these ridiculous analogies between gay people and blacks? The vast majority of blacks are hostile to gay rights, not only in this country, but around the world (in fact, the most homophobic countries on the planet are in the Caribbean and in sub-Saharan Africa)–in fact, as a group, they are more hostile to gay rights than any other demographic group in the population–so please stop acting as though they are allies or have any sympathy towards us as a group or see any analogy between their situation and ourse, either historically or otherwise (although a few individuals do)… your desperate attempts to create some Politically Correct Fantasyland in which all minorities are co-victims of the evil white heterosexual male….(particularly in light of the fact that the only legislative and judicial successes we have had have been due to the initiative taken by one or more white heterosexual males)


  8. Caliban says

    It is interesting because Christie inadvertently, implicitly admitted some things with that statement.

    Translated, with the unspoken parts included it comes out something like this: “Well OK, voting on rights for blacks wouldn’t have worked because they would definitely have LOST, and that’s a BAD thing. Probably. But I still think it’s a GOOD idea to vote on the rights of gay people, even though just like the blacks at that time in my example they very well might lose, but it’s different because the GOP doesn’t like queers.”

    That about sums it up I think.

  9. Michael says

    “The political climate in the South…did not permit it, meaning they would not win.”

    I have MAJOR issues with this more than anything else he’s been quoted as saying in the past few days. So, he’ll put the civil rights of gays and lesbians up for a vote even though the LGBT community has lost every time gay marriage was voted upon.


    He’s just digging his hole even deeper but fortunately what he is saying, the example f him saying it, is the reason why gay marriage shouldn’t be voted upon.

  10. Rick says

    This whole discussion is absurd on so many levels.

    First, the ridiculous attempts to pretend that there is some empathy between blacks and gays, as I alluded to above.

    Second, yes, the absurdity of the Governor suggesting that basic civil rights of any group be subjected to a referendum.

    Third, the absurdity of gay people claiming that marriage is a “fundamental right”…when, in fact, it is not…..its recognition by the government is based in the reasonable idea that a stable environment for the raising of children should be encouraged in whatever way possible, NOT on the idea that “romantic love” between two people should be recognized as legitimate.

    Fourth, the absurdity of so many people who do not even care about getting married (the vast majority of gay people) making such a big issue out of having the “right” to do so

    Fifth, the absurdity of focusing on changing laws instead of changing attitudes–if you change the culture so that it is no longer homophobic, you would not even need any laws to “protect” you…..and this is perhaps the crux of the issue here……the real reason you all don’t want this put to a vote is because, of course, you know we would lose….and that knowledge, in turn, reminds you of just how little real progress we have made in the last half-century in changing society’s attitudes

    The whole strategic approach here is wrong, because the strategy itself is wrong, IMO.

  11. Charlie says

    The state DID put laws forbidding racial discrimination in housing to the popular vote. And voter in Maryland and California voided the laws. And voters in New Jersey took away the right to vote from women when the state legislature approved it.

    A person’s race isn’t the major influence on how they vote. Rather it is church attendance. The thing is African-Americans attend church in greater numbers than the general population.

    Since Republican have used gay rights as a wedge issue to win elections, you have to wonder about Black churches aligning themselves with groups like NOM, FRC, and AFA who are working to defeat Obama.

  12. TampaZeke says

    @RICK, sorry but your Third point is demonstrably false since the United States Supreme Court, which was composed exclusively of STRAIGHT men in each case, declared over TWENTY times that marriage was not only a “fundamental” right but an UNALIENABLE right that couldn’t even be denied to convicts, including those on death row, who have almost no civil rights and restricted fundamental rights. The VERY reason that the SCOTUS has ruled repeatedly that convicts and those on death row MUST be allowed to marry is precisely because marriage was ruled a FUNDAMENTAL and even UNALIENABLE right.

    Would you care to at least acknowledge that that part of your argument was in error?

  13. says

    Rick’s first, third, fourth, and fifth points are all dubious. But, hey, his second one is spot on.

    I guess Gov. Christie (and Rick) didn’t take to heart the wisdom on the matter from African-American, Cory Booker. He spoke eloquently and made a positive link between black and gay civil rights issues. He’s not the first black leader to do so, since Coretta Scott King, and Mildred Loving made the same arguments years ago.

    Marriage is a fundamental right, and, even if children are not involved, there is no rational reason to exclude same-sex couples from marriage since childless opposite-sex couples are absolutely free to marry. Many gay couples, in fact, do want to marry (and to have children), and the numbers will only increase as equality prevails. Whether the numbers are equal to heterosexuals is irrelevant. Having a right doesn’t mean everyone will want the right–even those who have no wish to marry believe in the importance of all US citizens having the same fundamental rights. Changing the culture is indeed important, and one of the best ways to change it is by changing laws, and by making the rational arguments for equality that get laws changed and judges ruling in our favor. Equality changes the culture. I’ve seen it in action. Any place that has equality for any length of time will not go back; that’s a remarkable cultural shift supported by statistics. Some white heterosexual males do indeed deserve credit for pushing equality forward–some of the best allies in my home state, VT, fit that group. But they were also almost exclusively not Republican, and not fundamentalistic or evangelical. In fact, the one thing that can be said about most allies of all skin colors is that they aren’t members of the mainstream Republican party or a fundamentalist church.

    Christie will be on the wrong side of history, and the fair-minded people of NJ are recognizing this. We will win at the ballot box eventually, but that’s not what anyone should have to go through to attain basic civil rights.

  14. Jack says

    Christie is clearly wrong on the referendum issue, but if someone compared me to bigoted segregationists like Lester Maddox and George Wallace , I would have called him a lot worse than “numbnuts”.How do you compare Christie who just a week ago nominated an asian man and a gay black man to the New Jersey Supreme Court to those two racists bigots?

  15. NY2.0 says

    Gay Republican Rick conveniently ignores the fact that Corey Booker an African American is a staunch supporter of gay rights. Gay Republican Rick also conveniently ignores the fact that the congressional black caucus voted to repeal DADT while his own party overwhelmingly voted against it.
    Poor gay Republican Rick, it’s not black people preventing you from getting equal rights, take a look at the bigots in your own party who you vote for every election cycle to keep your tax cut. People like Chris Christie and Mitt Romney who you will be voting for in November.

    If interracial marriages were put up for popular vote in the southern states today, there is no guarantee it will survive the ballot box.

  16. Rick says

    @Ernie and NY2.0 First of all, I noted that there are individual African-Americans who are supportive of gay rights and that they should be acknowledged and appreciated……just as there are individual Republicans of whom one can say the same thing. And it is certainly true that many black professional politicians within the Democratic Party understand quite well that they cannot be in favor of homophobic policies publicly and officially if they want to remain in the good graces of the liberal Establishment that dominates the party, regardless of their personal convictions……which undoubtedly at least partially explains the vote that NY2.0 referred to on DADT, as well as Corey Booker’s stance (he has much bigger ambitions than being Mayor of Newark)

    But try as you might, the reality is that, out on the street, in real life, where it really matters, most blacks are, as I said, decidedly homophobic….and most opinion polls (as well as the results of referendums of the sort I alluded to) now demonstrate that they are even more homophobic than most Republicans are.

    I realize that that is inconvenient for your highly partisan goals, but I don’t care about partisan politics–I care about seeing social change.

  17. wimsy says

    Republicans don’t know they’re racist. Look at Gingrich, Santorum, Romney. They’re so out of touch with reality that they don’t realize that their remarks are offensive. Why should this racist idiot be any different?

  18. NY2.0 says

    @Rick, something tells me that you don’t know too many (if any black people). The black people that are homophobic follow christian dogma and thump their bibles just like the vast majority of the GOP base. The only thing is that they don’t vote Republican, sucks huh?

    Funny you quote opinion polls but fail to provide any links while ignoring the rampant homophobia in the GOP base that you lovingly support. Black people are not the ones preventing you from gaining any rights Ricky, it’s your own party!

    “but I don’t care about partisan politics–I care about seeing social change.”

    LOL what a load of crap, you vote by your pocket book which is why you support Chris Christie and Mitt Romney, just admit it, you care more about tax cuts than social change.

  19. Caliban says

    “if someone compared me to bigoted segregationists like Lester Maddox and George Wallace”

    He might not LIKE the comparison but if the shoe fits…

    How exactly does opposition toward full equality for a segment of the population differ from those politicians? Gay rights are the Civil Rights movement of TODAY and he opposes it. And so far as his appointment of the gay, black Republican judge goes, there’s good reason to believe that was designed to give himself and other politician political cover for their anti-gay attitudes, for claiming that marriage equality SHOULD be put to popular vote even though he’s admitted here it would never have worked for other groups.

    Have you ever looked at the photos of the angry white men and women of the 1950s and 1960s, yelling in support of segregation, and at black students on their way to school? That’s what being on the wrong side of history looks like. Christie and others like him would do well to look at that photos because their faces will be there soon enough. Cowardice and craven political ambition are not an excuse.

  20. Rick says

    @NY2.0 Dude, rapsters are not known for their propensity to attend church services come Sunday morning, nor are their audiences…..and they regularly pepper their lyrics with the most blatant homophobic terms in existence (which even the most right-wing Country & Western singers don’t do).

    Sorry, but it is not just the Bible-thumpers among black people who are intensely homophobic… just isn’t.

  21. NY2.0 says

    @Rick, you’re again ignoring the rampant homophobia of your own party by trying to create a boogie man in black people. My gay Republican friend, it is not regular black folks or rappers that are discriminating against you and preventing you from getting married. It’s your own Republican family and “friends.”

    You are the classic example of a conservative, blaming women and other minority groups for America’s problems.

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