Anti-Gay Pastor Ken Hutcherson Says Equally Anti-Gay NOM Too Much Like The GOP, ‘Old And White’

Hutcherson

Virulently anti-gay preacher Ken Hutcherson has been increasingly vocal in his disdain of "sissified" discrimination groups that he says are too soft on gay people, including the National Organization for Marriage.

Now Hutcherson is saying that NOM and their prominent allies are racist. From Christian Post.

[Hutcherson went] as far as to accuse some of the outside leadership of racism, and felt they were excluding him because he was African-American.

"When I knew my involvement was going to generate controversy, I offered to step back and suggested others who were on the front lines do so as well for the sake of unity. They refused, leaving me as the odd man out. If you look at them, they were all the same color with the same moderate views. It just didn't make sense why they would not include a person of color who was willing to fight."

"I believe there are conservatives of all colors, but the leadership from NOM, Focus and Mission Public Affairs, wanted to run being a moderate campaign where everyone felt warm and fuzzy. But we know that sin is never satisfied and always wants more. These guys just looked and acted too much like the GOP – old and white."

NOM big-wig Brian Brown called Hutcherson's comments "absurd and reckless" and "not true." "Pastor Hutcherson wanted to work on an initiative and not a referendum which we thought was the best method," Brown claimed.

So what about those cynical attempts to play on racial divides to weaken progressive groups? Was that not racist?

[via Good As You]

Comments

  1. says

    These groups come on our boards to constantly pin us against each other with various fake screenames…pin gays against lesbians, and blacks against white and hispanic gays, and create division amongst our community. It’s time they feel the karma of their twisted motives.

    To the gay community: stop fighting amongst each other and pointing out flaws about LGBT. We do that way too much, much to the amusement of NOM and it’s members. Instead, celebrate our community…all members of it: fat, young, feminine, butch, black, white, tall, short. We are a BEAUTIFUL community who should be proud of our hard work. Our community goes through so much discrimination and pain, and yet look how so many of us are thriving in society. Be proud to be LGBT and let these bigots go at it with each other.

  2. Diogenes Arktos says

    “I offered to step back…. They refused, leaving me the odd man out.”

    It looks like they took him up on his offer and he now complains that they did.

    BTW – the stock photo of him at Liberty University reminds me that I thought I saw an ad on this site for LU! Wouldn’t they be proud.

  3. Steve-ATL says

    First off, the GLBT community SHOULD be proud of all our accomplishments as the poster above noted. What we did to progress our rights, and we did it, in the past 10 years is truly amazing. Don’t let the trolls and divisive voices in our community attempt to get us to fight with one another. We’ve been successful because we’ve been galvanized.
    I see the destruction of groups like NOM being fighting within their circle. Case in point; this story.

  4. Sauce for the Goose says

    Wait. Isn’t *this post* a “cynical attempt to play on racial divides” — quite literally? As always, do try to apply to yourself the standards to which you hold others.

  5. Aulton says

    These Christians cannibalizing each other is proof that religion is division, deceit, depravity, dominion, and destruction.

  6. Bob says

    Somebody must have pulled the $100 bills off of his eyes, so he could see those who bought him in their true light

  7. Duration & Convexity says

    This site is infiltrated with trolls. Please stop passing advice to gays on here. It’s mostly the same two self hating closeted gays (like Ratbastard, UFFDA, Jason) who post under different screenames who constantly hijack every thread. Their phobias of fem gays, and the gay community in general has resulted in MANY posters on here finding other amazing blogs we now visit more often (I used to visit this place daily now visit every few weeks)….these blogs are where all the well rounded, well adjusted, rational LGBT post now. Towleroad is officially not one of them anymore. The comments section on here are a total troll zone, and most everyone knows it.

  8. says

    @ Duration & Convexity

    WELL SAID! The great contributors on here moved on. Towleroad and it being a troll magnet in the comments has thankfully had many of us move on. I still visit from time to time, but there’s so many wonderful LGBT oriented news sites out there that are free off rants by Mary/UFFDA and Rick that I think it’s silly to even ponder coming here. Andy jumped the shark when he refused to moderate the homophobic, racist, anti fem, anti everything posts we constantly see on here. Troll on.

  9. FlexSF says

    Isn’t the pot calling the kettle black in this instance? “absurd and reckless” and “not true.” “Pastor Hutcherson wanted to work on an initiative and not a referendum which we thought was the best method,” Brown claimed.” Not only are the anti-gay-religious-loons in charge of the asylum, there are apparently various levels of anti-gay-religious-lunacy. To be called out by the NOM as being too extreme is the height of loony-toonyness. May Brian Brown live a miserable life, and Pastor Hutcherson seek therapy for his machismo disease.

  10. Yellow Mellow says

    UFFDA,

    I agree with the others, and have been suspect about you for a while. you’ve agreed with Jason, and Rick and Ratbastard (and all their other alias) on numerous times. You try to paint yourself as this voice of reason, but your attempts fail miserably when you align yourself with such deplorable posts as those characters exhibit. You try to pass it off as “contrast” and varrying opinions. No, when it comes to racism, you’re either racist or not. And same holds true for homophobia. Your definition of homophobia is a gay person being killed for being gay, when there’s MANY OTHER brackets of homophobia you, Jason, Ratbastard, and Rick can’t seem to recognize. Why? because of your own degrees of homophobia. You have a lot of issues with the gay community, a community you admitedly have very limited exposure to, but sure are opinionated about. That’s the epitome of ignorance

  11. Real Talk says

    UFFDA IS Jason.

    He is also “Mary”
    and ONE search of his handle on here, and his exchanges with them (shocking how when Mary appears with a post….WOOP! UFFDA just magically appears soon thereafter to brush her ignorant ego) reaffirms that. This site IS often polluted by trolls, and because people can muster up as many screenames as their troll like heart desires…what you have is four maybe five posters at most posting with 12 different names each, and creating a complete, choatic, dramatic, often ignorant mess. You don’t find that in 99.99995 of gay blogs. They sniff out the whack jobs and have them kick rocks. Here? it’s a reunion of all of them.

  12. J says

    You mean he’s upset that he is being discriminated against for not being able to discriminate against others.

    Nice.

    LOL @ black people and their religion. They’ll drink that kool aid without the ability to ever question it.
    and I say this as a biracial guy who knows and is around it.

  13. Bill says

    Guys, the best thing to do is to keep quiet. Rule No. 8 of politics is, “Don’t interfere when the opposition is forming a circular firing squad.”

  14. Klien says

    is he really playing victim for not being able to victimize another demographic? you can’t even make this stuff up.

  15. 2 Dads says

    This guy is a massive heart attack just waiting to happen. Be more concerned with your (fat @$$) health you monster, instead of the fact that gays are here to stay baby.
    On second thought, keep on eating those fried foods. Diabetes does an ignorant fools body good!

  16. Carlos says

    Now he can go back to taking money from ignorant followers in the hood who can barely feed their families while this POS drives a Mercedes and his wife shops at Saks Fifth every day. Gotta love the black Church.

  17. scott says

    He looks so gay- like leather daddy gay, with the little chin beard, ear studs- like I half imagine to look down and see boots and a whip.

    anyways- lol at the infighting. Please, continue bigots-;-)

  18. GenuineCorel says

    UFFDA, Andrew, Ratbastard and Rick all equal the same poster.

    All have an unhealthy obsession with masculinity, berate and belittle fem gays, even in posts that have nothing to do with fem gays. Sorry but most gay men don’t fixate on who is masculine and who is fem and go on crazy rants against fem gays. That these posters aboved mentioned constantly do tells me they are in fact the same person.

  19. R. Edward Travani says

    I don’t think the gay community is fighting amongst itself as much as finding excuses for why it fights so feebly, why so many “unclockable” men choose to remain in the closet and on the DL, and why our communities are more easily identified by our fetishes than our families.

    To men like Hutcherson, openly gay men look like red meat. The Hutchersons of the world admire, respect, and preach strength. The promote tough guys for being tough guys, not necessarily for their positive impact. An effeminate man in their eyes is a detestable thing; matching nicely with the biblical epithet “abomination”. When you interpret some of their actions in light of this marshal attitude, some of what they do makes a lot more sense. Flawed and fruitless (pardon the pun), but consistent.

  20. Bacwonder says

    It takes more courage to be a feminine man, to be proud of who you are, to face the world and NOT put on an act, to be true to your integrity, to be real with your spirit, your mannerisms, and your actions and to be happy than it does to be a caricature of an alpha poster child, all to please your surroundings. If you’re truly masculine you don’t care about someone who isn’t. Because some gay men (who are insecure) need to feel like there is someone “lesser than” them, and less worthy of respect than them, they pick on fem gays. For they think (“I may put a penis in my mouth but atleast I’m not feminine”) it helps them sleep better at night, THINKING there’s a group beneath them. It’s the same thought that enables homophobes insecure with their own being. They take out their insecurities on gay people to feel superior.

  21. Bacwonder says

    It takes more courage to be a feminine man, to be proud of who you are, to face the world and NOT put on an act, to be true to your integrity, to be real with your spirit, your mannerisms, and your actions and to be happy than it does to be a caricature of an alpha poster child, all to please your surroundings. If you’re truly masculine you don’t care about someone who isn’t. Because some gay men (who are insecure) need to feel like there is someone “lesser than” them, and less worthy of respect than them, they pick on fem gays. For they think (“I may put a penis in my mouth but atleast I’m not feminine”) it helps them sleep better at night, THINKING there’s a group beneath them. It’s the same thought that enables homophobes insecure with their own being. They take out their insecurities on gay people to feel superior.

  22. Greg Cali says

    one could easily argue, it’s that machismo way of being and thinking that leads to so much friction and divide in this world. that masculine machismo man who is so proud, and so fixated on showing he’s masculinity to the point of violence, threats and inhumane behavior that has cost the world and society so much division and violence. I’ve seen it with my own eyes.

  23. UFFDA says

    Poor boys, you really should go to the sites for you: Wantspablum.com, Boohoo.com. Wimps.org,
    Crymeariver.lol and all the rest where you can get your fill of clone.comfort. Democracy, variety and alternate opinions is no moe for you than trying to understand that one is not all.

  24. says

    Promoting hate, while crying about racism all to promote homophobia under a man made religion…..all these clowns need to die. And they need to die a slow painful death.

  25. Art Smith says

    @ Kyle
    Look at this fat bastardd. He’s on his way to cancer, diabetes, and a stroke in due time. His hate is stemmed from being angry the gay community is far more well rounded and successful than his bigoted (unhealthy) self can be.

  26. GregV says

    The irony of Hutcherson’s rants is as rich as Bill O’Reilly’s wishing for the days when the “real” Americans ran things and minorities weren’t so uppity. As Jon Stewart said, O’Reilly has conveniently forgotten the “No Irish need apply” signs that greeted his forefathers in “the good old days.”

    The Biblical literalism that Hutcherson begs us to follow is the exact same doctrine that (what he sees as) the “real” churches used to protest against his parents’ and grandparents’ right to vote, eat in restaurants and go to schools.
    Now that the people who hated people like him have let him come to the table at all, he’s anxious to be one of the insiders at the “hating” table, and wonders why they can’t have unanimous agreement on exactly who qualify as the icky people.

  27. Art Smith says

    UFFDA,
    you try to be different for the sake of being different, but being predictable in all your postings makes for a not so different persona. We can all pinpoint what you’ll post. Your desire and need to “stand out” results in a weird obsession with always wanting to go against the grain. It’s all for show and tell. You try to sell it off as “difference of opinion” but really…you just want to stand out and be different. We know you’re self hating gay type. You look at the gay community from the outside in, green with envy of gay men who are comfortable enough in their own skin to surround themselves in the community, with other gays, and happily so. That kills you. You’ll never be part of that, because within 2 seconds fo interacting with a miserable soul like you and your other alias on here (ratbastard) most well adjusted gay men would vomit. You’ll never be accepted by the gay community, or the straight community. Hence why you desperately seek some validation by camping out on this site 24/7- literally 24/7. It’s sad, pathetic, and tired.

  28. Jackson says

    @ UFFDA
    u think ur special for always making an anti gay narrative on here and agreeing with urself when u post as rick or jason, but really ur just being the homophobe we all know u to be. lol u really think thats not being status quo? please child. we know your tactics. it’s lame. own up to all your different handles on here. and a gay man who doesn’t have any gay friends sitting on a gay site every single hour of every day? do you have a terminal illness? lol let’s hope so.

  29. Carlos-Miami says

    Guys, ignore uffda. We all know by now he posts as Mary and possibly even Jason, although I’m not certain about that one yet. But given his melodramatic hissy fits and really bizarre obsessing of fem gays, I wouldn’t be surprised if he is Jason. Either way, ignore the mentally disturbed on here. I agree that many great posters have moved on to other leading gay sites out there. Don’t let the few remaining decent ones leave to on the account of some mentally disturbed old fart.

  30. Carlos-Miami says

    GREGV…YOU NAILED IT!

    You said exactly what I have always been trying to say about people like Hutcherson but am not articulate enough to say! THANK YOU! Best-post-of-the-week!

  31. John says

    Imagine that, being allowed to be prejudiced against gays and blacks? Is that allowed. Aren’t there rules that you can only hate one group at a time? So the fat old black man now hates the fat old white men who hate the gays.
    Don’t worry guys, there is enough of a cash cow in forwarding a hate agenda for all of your organizations to make money on. Then when you run out of stem on hate toward homosexuals, you can go bak to turning on each other.

  32. R. Edward Travani says

    Showing my age in the next post…

    Just a quick word about PRIDE.

    While I appreciate the personal strength of character it takes to live an authentic life – without a mask, without deception for who you are and how you move – we need to be honest about how it looks from the outside. Outside of the gay world (and the Special Olympics) pride is earned as a measure of achievement, superiority and requires a touch of external admiration. In others words, “legitimate” pride requires a 3rd-party judge to validate it or it means nothing. Even the most understanding straight people of my generation seem, to me, to view the pride of the femmes as a bit perverse and undeserved.

    Now I get it from our side of the fence and do not seek to downplay the femmes who flipped-the-bird to rest of the world and went ahead being their own person. It’s just a reminder FYI and reality-check.

  33. andrew says

    @genuinecorel: You may be little kiwi, since you are using his tactics, But whoever you are, get you f*cking facts straight. I have NEVER made any posts that ” berate and belittle fem gays” nor have I ever posted any “crazy rants against fem gays”. That is not the kind of person that I am. So take me off your f*cking list!!!

  34. anon says

    Any chance these threads can stay on topic?

    This one is a bit confusing, since we don’t know what was promised to whom. Hutch and NOM might have agreed to cooperate at some point, but it seems that now Hutch wants all the funding that’s going to NOM to go to him because he’s more anti-gay than they are. At least, that’s how I read it.

  35. Robert says

    The slave cracking the whip on the slave master who used the slave to do his dirty work. Note the location in the picture, Liberty University in Lynchburg Virginia, part of the KKK South.

  36. R. Edward Travani says

    Good point and thank you for pointing out the need for clarification. I posted my remarks about PRIDE as a reminder how men like Hutcherson view and spin our political progress – weak, undeserved, artificial, degenerate. So long as our image is not the sort to stare this bloated thug down, Hutcherson and those like him have license to continue.

  37. Caliban says

    It’s really lovely seeing NOM, who laid out plans to cause division within the gay community between black and white gays, and between the gay community and black community, being accused of racism by Hutcherson, who they brought in to help them achieve that goal.

    Can you say “irony”? I know you could! 😉

    I really don’t “get” what the beef is about “effeminate” gays and the hostility toward them. Surely I’m not the only one who went to school with kids who had “gender-atypical” characteristics from day one. It wasn’t something they chose, it’s who they were. There were some that may have been transgender. And some of them took a LOT of sh*t and there’s one thing you should know about “sissies.” Many are the strongest people you’ll ever meet because they had to be. If they didn’t break they can’t be broken.

    And one thing I’ve noticed about the people I’ve met in person who are derisive of “femmes” is that they often have those qualities themselves. Just as many homophobes have gay tendencies, femmophobes project their self-loathing about their own “failure” of the masculine ideal out on others.

    For myself, I don’t spend a lot of time worrying about it because I’m not going to POLICE myself and my actions to please others anyway, so why bother? I’m not femme and I’m not “butch” either. I’m just me. If you think I’m going to sit around sweating whether every word I say or my gestures fit some narrow ideal, you’ve got another thing coming. People sure as hell don’t change what they say and how they act to suit ME, to suit gay people in general, so what kind of Bizarro-World fantasyland are you living in that you think I or ANYONE should act in certain ways for the comfort of YOU or anyone else?

    Last I heard, nobody died and made a King of reality, so get over it. So gut up and live your life as you see fit and allow others to do the same. All the effort spent worrying about how you’re perceived would be better spent on living your real life, whatever that means to you.

  38. princely54 says

    This is great news. I hope it leads to fracturing of the groups and they have more and more infighting that takes time, resources and effort away from their stated goals. Idiots.

  39. Mary says

    Personally, I wonder if this pastor’s anti-white rant against NOM isn’t part of a plan to give the anti-gay cause a new image as tougher (less “sissified” as he calls it) and non-white in order to give it a boost within the black and Latino communities. Hutcherson may be “having a Sister Souljah” moment.

  40. R. Edward Travani says

    Don’t get your panties in a twist, Caliban. I’m from the elder era and the culture has changed – just not everywhere or for everyone – Hutcherson being one of the more odious examples. Now it may be difficult for you to imagine now but it was not so long ago when effeminate men, particularly those of us with competitive corp careers, took classes to minimize noticeable behavior and blend in with the boys. It was serious business. Gay rumors derailed a hard-earned career, hands down. Now I know for a fact these classes are still offered today (and from what I hear just as pricey). Now I’m sure we all can admire your cavalier attitude but remember that every action carries a set of costs and benefits. The calculation is not the same for everyone. Drawing this post back to the original theme, and being quite frank, your being your own person carries one of our costs and operates to Hutcherson’s benefit.

  41. Mary says

    I wonder what prompted this new idea that Uffda and I are the same person. I have said many times that I’m a visitor here and not part of the LGBT community. I have no personal stake in the “masculine vs. feminine gays” conflict. My concern about “prancing queens” vs. “men in suits” had to do solely with the latter helping to speed up progress by enabling straights to see gays as more threatening. And I deliberately avoided the claim that there was something wrong with femme gays. Nor did I say that their scaring off straights from being allies was their fault in any way. It’s a matter of strategy.

    I understand being referred to as a troll when I was opposed to gay marriage, but that’s no longer the case now. Why does my presense here bother anyone? It’s mainly because of all the time I spent on Towleroad that I switched sides and became pro-gay. If Andy Towle wants me to stop posting here he has only to email me with the request. Nor would I post under some other name. My main whine (i.e. “don’t go too far or you’ll alienate voters and gays of the future will be made to pay for it”) would immediately give me away

  42. jason says

    How many people can I possibly be? According to some on this board, I’m about five different people.

    As for Ken Hutcherson, ship him back to Africa. He can take all similar-minded individuals from his community. He’s actively seeking to destroy our rights.

  43. R. Edward Travani says

    Mary, after reading your post I didn’t know whether to laugh or weep. You have no way of realizing this but GLBTs have been “going too far” since the 60s. Back then the gentle warnings were more along the lines of “don’t go to far or you’ll alienate the police, prompt a crack-down, and then they’ll throw you and all future gays in (or under) jail.” Straights being uncomfortable around gays is nothing new and there would have been no progress for gays in either law or culture had our leaders taken advice like yours. For the record, a lot of GLBT people still knuckle-under to our opposition and prosper for it. That said, such antics aren’t as necessary anymore and we’re all quite happy that there are now some voices to challenge men like Hutcherson.

  44. Caliban says

    @ R. Edward Travani, who here really has their “panties in a twist,” me or you? In case you haven’t noticed, it’s 2012. There are openly gay CEOS of some of the largest corporations in the world and most competitive businesses have non-discrimination policies.

    Of course behavior has consequences, but I’m talking about a natural tendency toward “effeminacy,” which is not at all the same thing as being flamboyant. Outrageous behavior from ANYONE, straight or gay, male or female, is likely going to limit what they can achieve.

    If effeminacy *does* have costs and consequences, and it well may, so does putting on a facade and being inauthentic. Not least that you’ve decided your real self is unacceptable, that you’re looking to other people for validation, GIVING them that power over your life.

    I don’t know how old you are, but I’ve been around quite a while too. I’ve been on the receiving end of homophobia in my life and career, but I didn’t slink away or start putting on an act. I stood up for myself and won. That really IS an option, you know.

  45. R. Edward Travani says

    Caliban, no doubt openness and honesty was an option … for some. Not for others, unfortunately. Perhaps there is something about engineering that draws conservative temperaments but in the every company where I’ve worked the majority opinion was that gay men need to be locked up. (That animus never seemed directed at lesbian women. Go figure.) By the way, you have it wrong about our giving our opposition power over us. We didn’t see it that way, at least not in the cliques where I ran. We simply took responsibility for our own privacy and deception. You’d be surprised how well that worked.

  46. Icebloo says

    A sure sign they are losing the battle – they are fighting amongst themselves. All we do now is stand back and let them fall apart.

  47. Mikel says

    R. EDWARD TRAVANI

    You’re actually showing your homophobia with all your posts not only justifying this man’s bigotry, but making blanket statements about fem gays, and horribly ignorant and hate laced remarks. In fact, your words actually remind me of another rancid poster on here named Christopher Allen Horton

  48. Real Talk says

    R. EDWARD TRAVANI = troll.

    You’re clearly one of Rick’s other names. LOL This site is the running joke amongst the gay community who laugh at all the trolls with their multiple handles all going on crazy ass, insane rants about feminine gays. On other gay blogs? fem and masc gays get along peachy-keen and perfectly fine. On this site, the closet cases who take classes to de-fem themselves (WTF? Go back in the closet mother effer!) are writing rants about fems in every thread. It’s truly hilarious!!

  49. R. Edward Travani says

    Mikel,

    I have said absolutely nothing to justify Hutcherson’s remarks or attitude. Any observations I’ve made about him have been tactical at best. Don’t confuse description with judgement. It’s a nasty habit. I’d actually like you to list my “horribly ignorant and hate-laced remarks”, if you don’t mind because the hyperbole with which you speak sounds more like a drive-by then any heartfelt opinion.

  50. Scott Johansen says

    Mary,
    Those femme gays are part of our community and those of us who are advocates and activists for true LGBT equality love them and we do not want your kind of acceptance that is conditional. You want to hand out gay people equality on your terms, all while you ask them to make their femme members feel less than. NO THANK YOU. We have femme members in our community and we stand hand in hand with them.
    You are a complete pest on here, that’s why you get called out. You consistently target a new bracket of the gay population every week. It’s either passionate gay activists, or it’s gays who show public displays of affection, or now it’s femme gays. Notice how your idea of equality always comes with “term limits” toward things that straight people get to do all the time. We as a community will never turn our backs on our femme gay members. Ever.
    Know that.

  51. says

    Mary/UFFDA
    You’re an ignorant loss cause. You are not the voice of the straight person. You THINK you are, but you don’t represent any straight person I know, or many people know. You are an fundmentalist, extremist, ignorant loon. Stop trying to paint yourself as a ‘middle of the roader’ while dishing out advice to us you old hag. You’re the last person qualified to do that. How did it feel seeing us get our right through voter approval in three states when not long ago you said heterosexuals would never vote for gay marriage because the idea of gay sex disturbs them. You crusty old cow. YOU are officially the voice of a minority within your own heterosexual community.

  52. R. Edward Travani says

    Real Talk,

    Sorry to disappoint you by I am very much myself and use only one handle. Perhaps you should read my posts a little more closely and realize that I was speaking of a previous time and culture and how it plays into how men like Hutcherson think and communicate their politics. And FYI, those of us who took classes to “de-fem” ourselves never left the closet, just like many naturally masculine gays (or is it MSM these days?) choose to live today.

  53. 2 Dads says

    Mary:
    when you bash and belittle our feminine gay brothers, other than a very small sampling of crazy coo coo population like Rick/UFFDA/Jason, you’re alienating many gay people, even those like me who are very masculine but I know the hardship my gay fem friends endure. I love them and respect them and would never ever want them to change in order for me to attain my rights. That is not part of my values,a nd thankfully not part of the majority of LGBT values.

    While you keep serving up unwarranted, unnecessary, (and not asked for) advice to us, I advise you to go look up the history and meaning of the Rainbow flag before you spew bull about how the LGBT community needs to adopt a discriminatory policy within it’s own community toward it’s own members. Go do your own research and investigative reporting for once, and learn about how the entire history of LGBT revolves around embracing diversity, including non conformative gays, including butch lesbians and fem gays. That will always be, and thank Goodness for that. The key to equality is not changing the inherent nature of those seeking equality, but changing the superiority complex of folks like you who want people to change their livelihood for your pleasure. Sorry, you lost in 4 states last week.
    Salt with that crow dear?

  54. A.J says

    LOL Mary you just gone got yourself a verbal papsmear by 2 Dads!

    and a well deserved one.

    And b-tch, I’m fem and proudly so, been working for equality through campaigns, fundraisers and making a difference in my surroundings for over a decade now. I know the difference I made, and the many, many minds I changed, and I didn’t need to ‘butch it up’ to do that, because unlike you, the people’s who’s minds I changed learned to accept diversity in all it’s forms realizing that someone’s mannerisms and walking and talking style does not define their character. You think you’re a far better human than you are, but many of us recognize you for the bigoted, ignorant hate monger you are. You will get yours in life. Karma will be sure of that.

  55. Mary says

    People on here can be really dense. I never, not once, said that any segment of the gay community should be shunned or ignored or harmed by any other segment. NOT ONCE. I was talking about what straight people will SEE as the gay community. And I don’t want acceptance of “my” terms. I just know that certain images help and certain images make the fight harder to win.

    I suppose it’s hypocritical for me to assume that “Scott Johansen” is an alias for someone else on Towleroad since I object when someone else thinks I’m Uffda, Rick, Jason, etc… But “Scott” are you a TJ alias? TJ has made these same charges against me and his words seem eerily similar to yours.

    And by the way, how does the gay rights cause advance if anyone who switched from anti-gay to pro-gay is now a “pest” for simply giving advice you don’t like?

  56. Dynex says

    R. EDWARD TRAVANI,
    Cut the pompous chatter. You’re trying to marganalize feminine gay men and many posters above are saying, judging feminine gays for being feminine is no different than a straight person judging a gay person for not being straight. In both cases, a party that feels they are a ‘majority’ and entitled, demands the other group to change who they are or not attain respect & rights. A gay person demanding respect has no room to then turn and lecture feminine gays about how they should be acting more masculine. That thinking right there is what set the gay community back and creates friction amongst each other. We as a group want to preach to others about acceptance yet we can’t so much tolerate and accept fem gays within our own community? Of course, a majority of LGBT don’t think like this, and it’s usually insecure closet cases with deep rooted self hate issues.
    I know dozens upon dozens of gays and not a single one of them takes issue at all with feminine gays. They realize that true diversity and true equality means just that.

  57. Amir S. says

    LOL @ the gay communities weird fixation over femininity and masculinity. Masculine “str8 acting” gays always want to police others around. And I say this as someone who is passable hetero, but damn. Live and let live. Why you so concerned that other gays are fem? they got a right to be just as you got a right to be gay and sleep with the same sex. gays judging other gays for not being straight enough or ‘normal’ enough. Now thats rich.

  58. R. Edward Travani says

    A.J.,

    I hope you’re right. I really do. Just call me a cynic but I’ve never seen anyone actually change their feelings about LGBT folks although I have seen them learn to keep their mouths shut about it. (I guess that’s progress too.) In any case, few reasonable people believe these days that a person’s style defines their moral character. That said, clever manipulators like Hutcherson take gleeful advantage of the stereotype to feed the fears and prejudices of unreasonable people. My post was about being aware of it.

  59. YoGabGaba says

    Mary,
    you have as much credibility here as my dogs fart on a summer day in a bath tub. Really now. You seriously have our oddity in you confused with interest. Most of us chalk you up as a misinformed know it all, who doesn’t know much at all. You’re the comic relief on here. You’re life must be very pathetic if it involves sitting on a gay website day in and day out to an audience who views you as buffoonery. And you’ve listened so much to your talking points from Rick that you started to buy into your own drivel. Most gays, and by most, I mean millions, have feminine gay friends. Many have even dated feminine gays. They are, have been, and will always be part of the gay community. They come with the package. And as others said, we’re not dependent on you for changing minds. You are old. You’re way past the age bracket where we care to make a difference on. It’s the younger generation, many of whom have fem gay friends and couldn’t care less about gay marriage, who we’ve won over and have made great progress in. You speak for a rural, aged, ignorant demographic that most of us don’t even bother with. Now back to writing wikipedia novels about “what gays should be doing instead of what they are doing”……remember, dog fart.

  60. R. Edward Travani says

    Dynex,

    You are simply dead wrong and need to get off your high-horse for a moment; perhaps read what I wrote. To clarify, I am not trying to marginalize effetes. From my perspective we have always been marginalized. If I’ve had one theme running through my posts it has been to ask the question why, in this day and age, our naturally masculine brothers still feel the need to abandon us and closet themselves to varying degrees.

  61. R. Edward Travani says

    And by the way, I’ll lay money that the answer is exactly the same one we’ve heard for the last 50 years.

  62. Southern-Bobby says

    It’s simple Mary, and you’ve got to be willing to open your mind to grasp this concept others above are trying to outline (albeit, not in the most effective way)

    Feminine gays are a matter of fact, not opinion, in our world. Many of them are not obnoxious beings, as your other posts indicated, but simply and very naturally, they were wired to be more on the fem side. That does not make them less valuable, less worthy, less dignified. From my personal experiences, my fem gay male friends have been some of the most cultured, worldly, creative and gentle spirits I’ve met. You’re confusing flamboyence with feminine, and you’re constantly making generalizations against fem gays all the while. That deservedly needs to be brought to your attention.

    Moreover, what you preach isn’t really helpful for the gay community. Making our fem gay participants of our community go in to hiding to appease others, all while pretending they don’t exist, all while pretending they aren’t part of the gay community is factually flawed, and ethically vile at best. That’s not who we are as a people. They exist. Many of them exist in wonderful manners, as I mentioned above. And because they exist, and because they are often wonderful, there is no reason they shouldn’t be exposed to the greater heterosexual world. In fact, what is fundementally flawed in your view is that you’re requesting for less exposure of certain types of gay people, when it’s MORE exposure of all attributes of gays that enables everyone to grasp that no two people were made the same, and this world certainly is large enough to handle our differences.

    Sameness, and respect being afforded under the premise of sameness is rather cryptic. Wouldn’t you say?

    Something for you to think about.

  63. R. Edward Travani says

    SOUTHERN-BOBBY,

    That was beautifully stated and my reaction could be described as “Oh … if only…”. Now if all people were so high-minded as yourself.

  64. says

    Mary,
    I’ve seen you, and UFDA, and Rick make the same points in circles without much logic in relation to effiminate gays. Firstly, I think even discussing other people’s mannerisms in such great detail is pretty shameful when it’s someones heart & soul that should define them, but let’s delve in this.
    Where I’ve noticed you go wrong in your postings, and you haven’t been capable of checking yourself on is your inability to make the distinction between traits you don’t appreciate in a person (someone who is loud, obnoxious, mean, flashy) to effiminate men. Those things are mutually exclusive. Instead of clarifying that, you make blanket statements about all effiminate gays. In a time when our community is embracing our effiminate gays considering they have been made to feel like outcasts. Not all effiminate gays are what you are trying to portray them as, and that speaks more about your own ignorance and lack of genuine exposure to effiminate gays, as it does about them.

  65. Michelle says

    Mary,
    I haven’t read this exchange, and refuse to. But if it’s like any of your other exchanges with the members of this site, it usually starts with you making sweeping generalizations about the gay community, coupled with a self indulgent lecture about how the community needs to take your expertise as gospel, then concludes with you feeling victimized that people take offense to your arrogance and let you know it. Your intentions are not and never were as noble as you make them out to be, and one simple search of your many comments in the past illustrate that.

  66. andrew says

    I am a life long liberal democrat and an out and proud gay man. I live in the gayest neighborhood in the city and volunteer at an LGBT center. My MD, Dentist and barber are gay. I rarely go to any bar or restaurant that isn’t gay owned or real gay friendly. I contribute to various gay organizations. I take a backseat to no one who posts on this site in my committment to the LGBT Community. But I will say that I am sickened by the meanspirited demagogues who in the name of being pro LGBT folks go for the jugular and seek to verbally destroy any who disagree with them. All of you: Little Kiwi, Genuinecarel, a j, 2 dads, usc trojan fan, art smith, jackson,dynex, yogabgaba, scott johansen mikel et al are a disgrace. You are all Donald Trumps of the left. You seek to destroy all who disagree with you. I wouldn’t be caught dead in the same room with any of you. And I realize that some of these names all identify Little Kiwi, the most malevolent of the lot of you.

  67. Mary says

    I’ll explain what I meant, which may not have corresponded well to what I actually wrote! What I meant by “prancing queens” was not femme gays but men who almost look as if they were auditioning for the circus. Right-wingers love when people like this march in gay pride parades because they know how it turns off Middle America. I was referring to DRESS, not speech or mannerisms. Sorry if I didn’t make that clear.

    When I wrote that post I was thinking of how showing these eccentric types in anti-gay literature increasingly won’t work because mainstream society is starting to see this as mean-spirited stereotyping. And this new perspective is GOOD because the only other alternative is to show gay men as they really are, which doesn’t scare anyone. I was thinking of how it is now difficult for anti-gay activists to scare people by showing two men marrying as long as those two men look reasonably conventional in how they dress and behave. The more people see gay couples wed, the less shocking it is to them. So it means that anti-gay activists can’t really use imagery anymore to win people over. This development is a step forward for gay rights because images are powerful. That’s all. It wasn’t a call to make any segment of the gay community into sacrificial lambs in the quest for straight acceptance.

    My bad. I’ve done this literary equivalent of “foot in the mouth” before. I guess I better not ever apply for membership in PFLAG!

    Southern-Bobby, thanks for at least being civil.

    But Michelle, if it’s arrogant of me to think the gay community should take my advice, isn’t it arrogant of you to assume that you know what my intentions are?

  68. R. Edward Travani says

    Andrew,
    While I am a little disappointed at some of the slapdash responses I’ve received and also somewhat put-off by the threaded assumption that everyone shares the same values, I’m not buying ONE WORD of your post.

  69. R. Edward Travani says

    Andrew,

    Sorry but if that were true you wouldn’t have responded at all. In any case, I’m me – the one and only. Now please take your sour grapes over being pegged as a poser, buy yourself a decent cheese, and make some whine to go with it.

  70. andrew says

    @R. Edward Travani: IT is my combative nature. When someone calls me a liar, I get f*cking angry, I don’t remain silent. You are you – the one and only. Who gives a rat’s a*s?

  71. Kyle says

    Andrew,
    nice try but I don’t take my ques from someone like you who uses the term “f*ggot” casually in front of heterosexuals to fit in. I don’t take my inspiration from you, the person who thinks it’s cute to say gay as a pejorative (“that’s so gay”) I don’t think someone like you is qualified to comment when you can’t understand why sayings like “alternative lifestyle” are damaging. Your anger is misdirected. You want to proudly display anti gay antics like the ones mentioned above, then consistently throw a fit when people dare call them inappropriate. You can hang out with as many gays as you want to, but trust and believe, behind your back, they have very little respect for someone who has such little respect for the gay community.

  72. says

    @ Andrew
    I don’t even know who little kiwi is, but I do think it’s amusing people like you and Jason have made him the poster child of everything pro gay, and in your quest to bash him, you revert to sitting on the fence of most pro gay issues. You have one foot in the side of our side, while another foot passionately defending the phobes. And you do it all the time, so spare us the melodramatics. You should be ashamed of your actions during the Chik Fil A episode. You tried to guilt gay people in feeling bad about understandably being passionate about a company that donated millions in stripping their rights away, while advocating for the murders of gays overseas. YOU have no loyalty to LGBT, and are indifferent about our plight. Don’t demand all of us adopt your indifference. We won’t.

  73. says

    Andrew-
    I think I’d be more ashamed to pretend to be for gays, when every time a bigot, or homophobe opens their mouth, it’s oddly enough you chimming in saying “the homophobe has every right to be a homophobe” then backing it up with a laundry list of trying to silence gay people. And that’s really your mission here. To get us to be as complacent as you are. I’m thrilled others are noticing this pattern in your posts.

    Your threads have nothing to contribute on here except for advocating for more ignorant speech toward LGBT, and the lame childish anti gay buzz words like ‘that’s so gay’ as another person above pointed out. If anyone should second guess their values, it’s a grown man pretending to be on our side when it suites him (in the bedroom?) but than runs and makes pathetic ignorant remarks about gay people with gay slurs. You have a bipolar way of going about things and resent that people took a mirror and put it right in front of your face.

  74. Duration & Convexity says

    Does anyone notice the pattern between these posters…..

    Rick, Ratbastard, Jason, Mary, UFFDA, and Andrew….?

    They all sure have so much opinionated chatter about flaws regarding our community. They sure have a list of things wrong with our community. They sure are happy to highlight all the perceived negatives of our community, and very eager to write a journal on here about them. Notice that pattern? Notice the people who highlight the negatives about a race, while overlooking all the positives are usually called a racist. Not much different between those people and the posters I listed above. For you see, the anti-gay individual thrives off attempting to belittle the gay community. Demoralizing gays is their way of weaken the strength that is our community. It’s done with a calculating hidden agenda that shoul not be so hidden anymore. Every single one of them ends their song & dance with “just because I like to highlight the negatives about the gay community doesn’t mean you all should challenge me on it. After all, I’m entitled to an opinion”….yes, and you’re also entitled to be called out for your ignorance. Freedom of speech does NOT mean freedom from criticism. Act a fool, you’ll be called one. We know your ploy, and we know your tactics. Your disdain for gays pours over on here and we see it. You, and I too am assuming you’re the same poster, resent positive reinforcement toward the gay community. Tough luck.

    Our community is winning the culture war. We are on television, media, radio, magazines, online blogs, the works. That includes very feminine gays (notice how they all also have that disdain in common). You are slowly the new minority group. The gay community – all of it, including the camp and fem and crazy and fun and silly and young and old, is achieving far & wide acceptance across the board. Your pessimistic agenda of attempting to weaken us lost. Wave good bye.

  75. Cuban Delight says

    I’m nuetral on the masculine vs. feminine debates. But I will say, as an outsider looking in, the so called “masculine” crowd who in ad hominem tries to make fem gays seem dramatic are the most dramatic themselves. Has anyone ever noticed that? I don’t see fem gays going on tirades about masculine gays walking in a room like so and so. Yet the so called masculine gays will sit here and go on a never ending hissy-fit over their observations of feminine gays. I know many fem gays. They are not like the way “masculine” gays try to make them out to be. Notice how I put “masculine” in quotes. Because truly masculine gay men like me are comfortable enough in our manhood to not need to knock down fem gays to feel more ‘manly’ That’s lame. Just like truly straight men are comfortable enough in their sexuality to befriend gay men and not care that they are gay. It’s the closet cases that are the most homophobic. And in our community,it’s the closeted fems (trust me, get these “str8 acting” types behidn closed doors and see just how fem they are) who are not very secure in who they are, hence the need to resent and hate on fem gays for being secure enough to face this world and just be.

  76. says

    From my experience: those actually involved in the community, and non profit LGBT related causes, and do-good experiences in our community are not the ones hung up on fems, and age, and race, and other things you read about on here.

    Truly, my friends and I always talk about how the comments section of the gay blogs are completely foreign to the true experience of being in the valuable gay community. By valuable, I mean aspects of the gay community that are centered around volunteering, campaigning, activism, social gatherings, groups, events, book clubs. Ever join one of these? You should! I have for the past 12 years, a multitude of them. ALL you see is fem gays socializing with masculine gays, with white gays, and middle eastern gays, and older gays, and younger gays, and buff gays, and chubby gays….truly…try it sometime. Put yourself in the REAL community, outside the rants of these comments section, and see how wonderful and diverse our REAL community is. The comments section usually attract a number of people whose only exposure to gays is this site, and that’s by choice, hence they have their minds made up on fem gays, and black gays, and trans people, and will gladly show their ignorance.

    Please don’t think these clowns are reflective of the gay community.
    Join one of the mentioned venues cattering toward gay people and see how beautifully the REAL gay community co-exists with one another, be they fem, butch, fat, old, young, brown, white, or everything in between. Those of us who know our rainbow flag respect what it stands for.

  77. Steve-ATL says

    WorldShiner,
    Thank you! I needed to hear that. And from my experiences too, your words are very true.

  78. Prime-ultra-Dude says

    WorldShiner-
    Wish those kind fo gays who are open minded and open hearted would visit sites like this more often, to balance out the negative nellies who constantly want to bash some segment of the gay population, but I also realize those gays are actually living their lives. Not commenting about other people’s life on the internet.
    Live and let live is what keeps life enjoyable for me.

  79. millerbeach says

    Wow…can I still weigh in? Mary, you’re a big fat phony. Me thinks you protesteth too much. You sure spend a lot of time on a gay website for being a hetero woman, if that’s what you are calling yourself. Gosh, the internet is just amazing…all I need is a keyboard and I can be anything I want!

    I digress…I am fond of more masculine men. I like men. It’s just the way I am. I do not care for over-the-top nelly queens. They are too loud and get on my nerves. But, to each their own. I certainly wouldn’t hate someone just because they are effeminate…the same way I would not automatically like someone just because they are “butch”. It’s deeper than that, at least for me.

    I do hope this is the beginning of the end of these hate groups. Hopefully, they will see the error of spending all that money just to hate. We won in a big, big way on 11/6. They lost in a big, big way, even after pouring millions of hate dollars onto the fire. It did not work. Let me repeat, it did not work. They did not get their money’s worth…that makes them really, really mad. Just sit back and watch, during the next few months, as they continue to take swipes at each other, failing to realize every time they do, they take a swipe at their own credibility. Once that is gone, they are truly toast.

  80. Patrick says

    Mary,

    I’m feminine. Very feminine. Very gay. And very instrumental in helping push for pro gay legislation by advocating through elected officials in my town. Talking to residents. Making phone calls, and helping create a mental shift in my small town. My one experience discredits all your ignorant sentiments about fem gays. What this fem gay has managed to do in his town is more than any of your wishful thinking ‘machismo’ gay man could dream of. You have a lot to say on here, but you’d do so much better if you sat back and conceded to the fact that you have far more to learn. You’ve demonstrated in recent posts that you’re far less willing to learn about the gay community and the instrumental players pushing for advancement in it like myself, than you are of just being heard. You may enjoy the sound of your own voice, but we have two ears and one mouth to listen and learn in life more than talk-talk-talk-talk-talk.
    Signed,
    That feminine gay man, who is proud to be who I am, and proud to have made the stellar difference in my region all while not selling out on who I am.

  81. R. Edward Travani says

    Well Patrick, you are a testament to what progress can mean … assuming you’ve told us the truth about yourself.

    I’ll be honest. I can hear your words and applaud your accomplishments but it’s never going to be “real” to me. If you had tried talking to my neighbors back when I was in my teens you would have ended up in the hospital (or under it).

    Anyway, keep fighting the good fight and more power to ya.

  82. jhr459 says

    I agree with Phil & Bill – let those guys ‘eat’ each other. Turn about is fair play as we (Democrats) have done that for far too long.

  83. UFFDA says

    Hang in there Mary. Use KIWI’s example, of all things. It doesn’t matter one bit whether you’re right or wrong, old or young etc. Stand right up and fight back If you want to. You have always had an essentially compassionate voice and a wise one. As Rick has accurately pointed out a whole lot of gay men are not particularly healthy people and you’ve been hearing from a lot of them. Many are not going to be able to hear anything in a balanced way.

    The strength of this site is still it’s diversity in addition to the fact that if you find it distressing all you have to do is stop reading its posts.

    BTW PATRICK’S story above is exceptionally poignant, even heroic, as well as inspirational. I have always said that naturally feminine men have a right and good place in the world. On balance it’s clear to me that you agree.

  84. Brian says

    I’m really late to this thread, and my animosity to Jason/Rick is well-known, I think Ratbastard is largely in that camp but not always, and is definitely a different person. UFFDA seems to be merging into the hateful Jason/Rick crowd. But I have to say, Mary seems completely apart from this crowd. Yes, she was annoying when she was anti gay, and yes it’s unusual that she spends to much time on a gay website. But I actually find her point of view interesting. Attacking her for being old is just silly, old straight people are the only ones standing in our way so I for one appreciate her point of view. To be honest I’m not familiar with her posting on fem gays so I may have missed something there. But in general I can understand her point of view. It’s no surprise she’s out of the mainstream here because she is out of the mainstream generally. But she’s not UFFDA, he just supports her because he likes to support anyone being controversial just for controversy’s sake, and I don’t think he has an original idea in his head. Mary actually thinks things through, she’ll never be in total agreement with most of us but she’s hardly a troll and nowhere near as horrible as jason/rick.

  85. amazingjose says

    i thought this story was about another pastor caught touching his choir boys. LOL AWESOME comments and discussion though. Heres food for thought on the whole butch/femme thing. What if homohatred is a born trait like a hunters instinct leadership or even gayness itself? So your gonna have some gays nagged by homohatred and learning to act butch not liking the nellys and others not bothered who could care less. Seems to fit.

  86. andrew says

    Some who post on this site, like Little Kiwi and his faithful followers, are to put it simply, the Donald Trumps of the left. With meanspirited and bombastic rhetoric they attempt to silence all who dare to disagree with their dogmas. Personally, this out, proud and committed supporter of the LGBT community dislikes bullies as much as bigots. In my naivete, I didn’t realize that bullies existed on the left. But, here you are!!!

  87. says

    you mean he’s surprised that the anti-gay bigots look just like the anti-integrationist bigots?

    next up we’ll have one of those clue-less ultra-orthodox rabbis have an awakening that the Christian forces they join with in anti-gay battles are also, amazingly, anti-Semitic.

    everyone else, meanwhile, wonders why it took ’em all so long to notice.