Michigan Gay Marriage Ban Trial Wraps Up as Witness Says Unrepentant Homosexuals are Going to Hell

Lmc

The last witness to testify for the state of Michigan in the nine-day trial challenging the state's ban on gay marriage and gay adoption left the courtroom with what the Detroit Free Press calls "explosive" testimony:

AllenHis views emerged following a question from plaintiffs attorney Ken Mogill, who is fighting to overturn Michigan’s ban on gay marriage.

“Is it accurate that you believe the consequence of engaging in homosexual acts is a separation from God and eternal damnation?” Mogill asked the state’s expert, then added, “in other words, they’re going to hell?”

“Without repentance, yes,” answered the expert, Canadian economist Douglas Allen, the last witness to testify on behalf of the state in a trial that could make Michigan the 18th state to legalize gay marriage.

Allen, an economist who has researched 60 same-sex parenting studies during a 15-year period, said that he believes Michigan should uphold its ban on gay marriage. He argued that science is a long way from determining whether that family structure is good or bad for kids, and that messing with public policy would be premature.

Michigan's AG claimed that Allen's religious beliefs won't hurt his testimony.

A decision from Judge Bernard Friedman won't come Friday, according to the AP, but it shouldn't be long.

Comments

  1. GeoffreyPS says

    He’s using the same reasoning as a birther or a global warming denier: not enough evidence. They demand “give me more”, but when it’s provide they move the line for what they will require.

    Oh, and nice shirt, Asshat.

  2. says

    I sent him an email, and Allen’s response: A

    “t the trial I was directed to give only yes or no answers under cross. That prevented me from expanding. I was asked the same question at the deposition,
    Where I was able to say that I believe everyone is a sinner, and everyone is going to he’ll unless they repent.

    This is nothing but basic Christian theology, and you can hardly attack me for that.

    Thanks for your tolerance and respect for freedom of religion.”

    I told him he was an f’ing a-hole in the email, which is where the tolerance and respect stuff comes in.

  3. says

    I sent him an email, and Allen’s response: A

    “t the trial I was directed to give only yes or no answers under cross. That prevented me from expanding. I was asked the same question at the deposition,
    Where I was able to say that I believe everyone is a sinner, and everyone is going to he’ll unless they repent.

    This is nothing but basic Christian theology, and you can hardly attack me for that.

    Thanks for your tolerance and respect for freedom of religion.”

    I told him he was an f’ing a-hole in the email, which is where the tolerance and respect stuff comes in.

  4. Clayton says

    So much wrong here:

    Why is an Economist giving testimony about family structure?

    What gives him the expertise to evaluate data in studies done by Psychologists and Sociologists?

    Who sold him that shirt?

    Who took his picture?

  5. Caliban says

    Holy moly! Now that is some industrial grade gay-face!

    But unless the judge is also a holy roller his testimony nicely demonstrates the kind of animus gays face from our opponents, who base it all on the ramblings of nomads of the late Bronze age.

  6. Jim in TO says

    He states he has “researched 60 same-sex parenting studies during a 15-year period”. Did he list the 60 studies? I have trouble believing that there have been 60 peer reviewed studies of same-sex studies from any source, let alone reputable sources.

    Worst, he is an economics professor, not a sociologist. He is only qualified to do the statistical analysis, but not to analyse the results!

  7. JackFknTwist says

    I love this.
    An ‘economist’ from Canada gives medievalist beliefs as testimony in a court filled with lawyers.

    this testimony may have been worth recording by Torquamada in the Spanish Inquisition but what and why is a slow witted frightened little fool giving his scared opinions on matters of an afterlife, and a theist belief as evidence ?
    Evidence of what ?
    Why is this loon out in daylight ?

  8. Steve says

    No surprise that the douchenozzle has no clue what “freedom of religion” is either. As all far-right lunatics, he wants to be free from any criticism.

  9. Dearcomrade says

    As an atheist I love it when I hear bible thumping knuckle draggers say gays will go to hell. It’s like telling an adult there’s no Santa Claus.

  10. jakeinlove says

    This is why the gay ban will ultimately found unconstitutional. You can talk religion and your beliefs, etc…but your in a LEGAL court room, not a religious town hall.

  11. says

    it’s one of those things, do we smile at the always-present reality that the only “arguments” against us are nothing more than baseless, one-sided biased interpretations of Scripture, or do we weep that there are feeble minded folks on the Bench who think it’s a justified and fully acceptable reason?

  12. Bernie says

    those so called “experts” have me laughing hysterically because they are saying out loud their irrational, illogical and stupid beliefs about gay people… and what they are saying will strengthen the case for gay adoption and marriage equality….they are helping our side win………..

  13. wayne says

    Were I the Judge, I would have disqualified each of the state’s witnesses because they are all affiliated with Christian anti-gay hate groups.

  14. crazycorgi says

    Exactly how in the hell is his religious beliefs relevant in this trial? Why in the hell would a judge even allow this and not disqualify him? His religious beliefs have no relevance in a court of law. So what, he believes that all gays are going to hell, then good for him, but exactly what does that have to do with the trial at hand?

  15. GregV says

    I take issue with the way one sentence is written in this article. The letter Paul wrote to the Romans does not at ANY point mention actual gay people. He describes a scene in which straight and married people (men on one side, women on the other, just like in some conservative religions today) from a cult are in a religious temple using sexual rituals and idols (and perhaps idols IN the sexual rituals) to worship birds and reptiles. The whole scene in his letter has nothing to do with gay people or same-sex couples.

  16. GregV says

    Sorry, the above comment was for a different thread, I meant to post this:

    I saw this guy Douglas Allen at hearings on same-sex marriage several years ago making these same claims about these numerous “studies.” At that hearing, he named some of these “studies” as we’ll as the name of a book he wrote.
    Immediately after the hearing, I went to the public library and looked up and read every “study” he mentioned.
    These “studies” did NOT (I repeat, did NOT) study se-sex couples as he had misleadingly suggested. They studies INTACT heterosexual homes compared to broken heterosexual homes.

    People like him intentionally make misleading statements to pretend these “studies” say anything about the gender of the participants when they absolutely fo not.

    All too often, the media give such lies a pass when a very simple fact-check proves what’s really going on.
    I hope this judge is smart enough to not less propaganda pass as “evidence.”

  17. Bill says

    @crazycorgi: the guy who emailed him claimed that he said he was directed to give yes/no answers when cross examined, and he was asked about people going to Hell. So, the relevance is that a lawyer arguing in favor of same-sex marriages asked him the question.

    In the email, he claimed he had indicated in a disposition that he thought everyone who did not repent was going to Hell because everyone is a “sinner”. He claimed that was a widely held Christian belief. A cynic would call it marketing – you scare them with something that sounds terrible and then for a mere $20 a week in that all important collection plate, we’ll save you from it, and all you have to do is grovel a little. Sometimes the groveling doesn’t sound all that sincere. As a well-known conductor once told the chorus during a rehearsal of The Messiah, “when you sing ‘for we are sheep who have gone astray,’ could you please try to sound less self satisfied.”

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