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04/03/2006
Liza with a Z: Cher is #1 gay icon, not me.
Irish Prime Minister Bertie Ahern promises civil partnerships for gay couples: "Sexual orientation cannot, and must not, be the basis of a second-class citizenship. Our laws have changed, and will continue to change, to reflect this principle."
Posted 5:48 PM EST by Andy Towle in Elsewhere | Permalink
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Kiss me, I'm Irish. Hurray for a little sanity.
Posted by: David | Apr 3, 2006 6:37:51 PM
What an amazing statesman.
What an amazing Catholic.
What an amazing Christian.
That's Bertie Ahern.
Let's let all this sink in when trolls here say that shameless Scalia cursing in church right after taking communion is their idea of a fine man.
No second class when it comes to citizenship. That's the point, has always been the point.
Posted by: Brian NYC | Apr 3, 2006 7:21:43 PM
http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/index.asp?locID=200&docID=2542
By the way, here is a link to Bertie Ahern's entire statement today when the PRIME MINISTER OF IRELAND attended and celebrated the opening of a gay center.
My God, the Dixie Chicks were right to say that they felt ashamed to think that they came from the same state as the ignorant and gay-hating American fraud of a President.
Posted by: brian nyc | Apr 3, 2006 7:45:42 PM
against such a depressing and despairing slate of news over the past few weeks - (crowned by Scalia's boorish arrogance), the heavens opened up today when I read about Bertie's downhome bravery. I increasing look all around the US for leadership - Canada, Spain, now Ireland - while our "leaders" (both Democratic & Republican) sell us out to the absolute lowest bidder. thanks for giving me hope somewhere else in this world.
Posted by: resurrect | Apr 3, 2006 8:07:40 PM
I believe that I understand why the freed US slave accepted " separate but equal." Their enemies, the racist white southern Dixiecrat controlled the environment, while their "Lincoln Republican" friends had abandoned them to elect Hayes.
We applaud nations like the UK and Eire, who are more than willing to provide second-tier rights to GLBT families, while we sit and fail to support the beachhead in MA, or Canada, Netherlands, Belgium and Spain who are the ONLY, the ONLY, the ONLY nations who support EQUAL DEFINITION OF MARRIAGE FOR ALL HUMAN BEINGS....
PS - What happens when you are given second-tier and accept them, and then ask for FULL rights.....ask CT.
Posted by: Raymond | Apr 3, 2006 8:59:28 PM
>>Liza with a Z: Cher is #1 gay icon
Liza was a Gay icon for a minute. Just before Barbra, and right after Marilyn. Before that it was Mae West and Judy Garland.
I think Cher is probably popular because she's easy to imitate. She looks like a drag queen, so she gets "done" a lot.
When I was young it was always Motown. Diana Ross was Supreme Queen. Bette Midler was our biggest icon. Cher was around, but she and Sonny were considered pretty lame back then.
Posted by: Jay Croce | Apr 3, 2006 9:45:45 PM
"Who is this "Liza" and "Cher" of whom you speak?"
Actually, I never "got" why either got the "gays" all-bothered....nor Marilyn or Liza's mom for that matter.
Posted by: Ted B. (Charging Rhino) | Apr 4, 2006 1:33:35 AM
"Cher is #1 gay icon, not me".
Jealous, Andy? ;-)
Damn, I love reading this site!
Posted by: Lady Heather | Apr 4, 2006 2:52:15 AM
The Liza thing makes me wonder...who ARE the gay icons now? Or do the new gay men not require such things?
Posted by: Jacko | Apr 4, 2006 6:22:04 AM
Sorry - Madonna. How could I forget that she's been the Garland, in gay iconography if not in genius, for the last 30 years?
Posted by: Jacko | Apr 4, 2006 6:25:15 AM
I don't happen to see Judy Garland, Cher or anyone else as a 'gay icon'. It seems they're an icon for a particular TYPE of gay man. Once again generalisation rears its ugly head!
Posted by: Rich | Apr 4, 2006 7:29:38 AM
Well, in the sense that an 'icon' is a simplified, cartoon-like symbol which slightly resembles an actual object, I suppose they're all icons.
Who are our 'gay' emoticons?
Posted by: baz | Apr 4, 2006 8:27:48 AM
HELLO
GREAT POST !!!!!
KISSES FROM BRAZIL !!!!!
Posted by: HAIRYBEARS | Apr 4, 2006 9:23:05 AM
I think Madonna is the no. 1 gay icon of all time, but she's also such a mainstream icon that it seems natural for her to also be a gay icon. Cher, on the other hand, has very little mainstream appeal compared to her enormous gaystream appeal.
Posted by: Britt | Apr 4, 2006 10:20:31 AM
Rich calm down please don't bring any PC heat into a discussion of Liza vs Cher.
By the way I watched Liza with a Z this weekend followed by Inside the Actors Studio
About the first it showed why she was such a big star in fact there were few bigger in the 70's and 80's she was quite a talent. If her performances on ITAS are any indication she is primed for a small yet successful comeback. Club dates, small clubs and the like. She still very much has it (whatever that was she had)it has found it's way back to her.
Maybe I'm old but I am in love with her all over again. Icon no, but a great artist with a very camp and gay following.
Posted by: Donald | Apr 4, 2006 11:01:10 AM
Just because Liza or Cher are identified as "gay icons" doesn't mean every gay person is required to join in on the appreciation parade. Just because not every christian follows Pat Robertson doesn't mean he's not a christian leader.
I personally never got the Liza thing. Seems like a cheap Judy knock-off who tried to re-create the gay icon status that her mother enjoyed through no effort on her part.
Posted by: Chad Hanging | Apr 4, 2006 2:19:44 PM
Chad I agree with you to an extent. Liza rode on her mother's coattails and is a less-fabulous version of Judy. I'll accept that. But I saw her (begrudgingly) in grad school when she came to Columbus on her one-woman show's national tour. She was fabulous. Her hip was bad at the time and God knows she's not a great singer anymore. But I've rarely seen a performer who could so completely enthrall a room full of people. I don't know what "it" is, but she certainly has it to a certain extent.
My friend Dan hates musical theatre with the white hot intensity of a thousand suns, and he's as gay as they come. He's living proof that we don't all have to like the same thing.
Posted by: Brian | Apr 4, 2006 3:06:02 PM
I'll have to take your word for it. I only know of Liza through Arthur and parody skits. Oh, and her appearance as a teen on her mothers Christmans special ws interesting. That show also had a pretty hot guy in tight pants so check it out.
On the point of us not being the same, I get really fed up with conservative gays always working so hard to label others gays as being sterotypes by using generalizations to bunch us all together because it's easier to burn a strawman down than it is to make your point.
There are some things I like that someone can easily say is typically gay but most not. I don't like Bette M or Liza but I do like Joan Crawford & Freddie Mercury. I get and appreciate 90% of gay humor. But I hate going cloths shopping and I still don't know how to "exfoliate" or what it means. I just assume it's some sex thing I've been too afraid to look up.
Posted by: Chad Hanging | Apr 4, 2006 4:13:34 PM