08/22/2007
Oregonians to Know Their Anti-gay Neighbors
Activist group Know Thy Neighbor plans to add Oregon to the list of states in which it's taking action. The group says it will publish names of those signing petitions to overturn gay rights bills passed in the state earlier this year, according to the Statesman Journal:
"A coalition of conservative Christians is circulating petitions to put the two measures before voters in the November 2008 election. That would enable Oregon voters to decide whether to grant marriage-style rights to same-sex couples via domestic partnerships, and whether to ban discrimination against gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgendered people. Know Thy Neighbor pledged to launch a new Web site that will list the petition signers' names and addresses."
Know Thy Neighbor has already published names of those signing anti-gay legislation petitions in both Massachusetts and Florida.
Oregon passed a bill banning discrimination based on sexual orientation in housing, public accommodations, and employment, and a sweeping domestic partners bill last spring.
Foes of the measures initiated their petition drive shortly thereafter.
Sphere: Related ContentPosted 12:51 PM EST by Andy in Discrimination, Gay Marriage, Gay Rights, News, Oregon | Permalink
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good on them. bigots need to be exposed.
Posted by: nic | Aug 22, 2007 1:31:44 PM
Much more important that exposing bigots is exposing dishonest petitioners.
As MANY people in MA discovered, through the Know Thy Neighbor site, petitioners forge names and signatures of people who do not support these efforts in order to boost their numbers. In MA even people who were married to same-sex partners discovered that their names were on the marriage amendment petition.
Public policy referendum petitions, and their signatories, are (by their very nature) matters of public record. No one who signs a public policy petition should be surprised or offended when it gets posted on the internet.
Posted by: Zeke | Aug 22, 2007 1:48:24 PM
zeke,
how stupid am i? i thought petitions were, as a matter of course, proofed for violations of that sort. nice to know that they aren't and can be so easily padded.
Posted by: nic | Aug 22, 2007 2:10:40 PM
Good on them. Those who seek to restrict the rights of others should be held accountable for it.
Posted by: Jonathon | Aug 22, 2007 3:10:20 PM
I had no idea those sites existed. I just looked up my neighbors from growing up in FL. Two of them are on the list. While I'd like to think they were put on that list under dubious circumstances, I'm more inclined to issue a "Fuck you."
Oh, and this was really weird: I learned that there is a married couple with my parents names (both first and last!) living in another part of the state. And my body-snatcher parents signed the damn petition. >:(
Posted by: Iko | Aug 22, 2007 3:19:50 PM
Nic, petitions are loosly "proofed" for physical mistakes, like missing signatures or missing addresses. To a lesser extent they are proofed for OBVIOUS forgeries (like the Fidel Castro signature on the Ohio petition). The names are then checked to verify that they belong to LIVING, currently registered voters.
Until Know Thy Neighbor came along there was no way to check these petitions for forged names and signatures without each and every voter going down to their local voter registration office or government authority and asking to see the list of petition signers.
I really see this as a public service that SHOULD be done by the state.
Posted by: Zeke | Aug 22, 2007 3:50:03 PM
The next step should be to affix a sing saying "Bigots Live Here" to a pointed stick and putting it on the lawn.
Jeepers, it apperars that the petitioning process has a lot in commom the the voting process, like counting Democratic votes in Cook County or Republican votes in Orange County.
Posted by: Bill Perdue, RainbowRED Organization | Aug 22, 2007 5:40:36 PM
By the way, there is quite a discussion going on, much of it ugly and negative, at The Statesman Journal's website:
http://community.statesmanjournal.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14741
Posted by: W. Roget | Aug 22, 2007 8:14:41 PM
By the way, there is quite a discussion going on, much of it ugly and negative, at The Statesman Journal's website:
http://community.statesmanjournal.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14741
Posted by: W. Roget | Aug 22, 2007 8:15:07 PM
My husband and I are both on the Massachusetts list and we've been unable to have them removed.
Posted by: Zeke | Aug 23, 2007 7:10:02 AM
I checked out the Statesman Journal conversation. I think we have a case of misplaced outrage.
The posting of the names is not an act of intimidation. It is the petition sponsors who are the aggressors. They want to strip gay citizens, couples, and their children of basic rights and protections.
The gay community has a right, if not an obligation, to defend itself using any legal means necessary.
Thanks for getting the word out about KnowThyNeighbor Oregon.
We hope that it won't be long before people understand that claiming to defend families by attacking the families of others makes no sense at all.
Please visit us at knowthyneighbor.blogs.com if you get a chance.
Aaron Toleos, Director
KnowThyNeighbor.org
Posted by: Aaron Toleos | Aug 25, 2007 3:21:53 PM
Don't believe Aaron Toleos for a minute. I am from Massachusetts and have personally been threatened and harassed because of signing the petition. Books ordered in my name, my phone number given out with the intent of calling my wife and children. Even People driving to my house and yelling names and swears as my children play in the yard. If this isn't intimidation - i don't know what is. Aaron Toleos lives down my street but still hasn't shown the courage or fortitude to come to my house for this "discussion". Know thy neighbor my foot. They will call you a Nazi, and a KKK man and demonize you if they don't agree with you. Yes go to the blog and see the hatred they espouse,
Posted by: Paul Jamieson | Aug 29, 2007 6:56:34 AM
Oh Paul,
Nor have you shown the courage or fortitude to go to Aarons house. If you don't want to be called a Nazi or Klansman then you shouldn't side them. Look in the mirror Paul your bigotry is showing.
Posted by: ELI | Aug 29, 2007 7:55:51 AM
Why should I go to his house?
Posted by: [aul Jamieson | Aug 30, 2007 7:56:58 AM
Paul,
You criticize him for doing what you won’t do yourself.
Since you hate us gays so much why are you here? Your hatred has been exposed, deal with it.
Posted by: ELI | Aug 30, 2007 8:14:27 AM
You are correct - I will not intimidate people. This is America for Christs' sake! and who said I hated gays?
So smug you are ELI. a coward
trying to intimidate.
the REAL hater and BIGOT is you and your secular religion.
You talk about Christianity but you have the same fervor for your secular fantasies.
IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN
GOD BLESS THE USA
Posted by: Paul Jamieson | Aug 30, 2007 8:09:40 PM
Just in case someone out there can't see for themselves by reading Paul Jamieson's words, he is insane. He parked himself on the KnowThyNeighbor.org blog almost the first day it opened, and has commented there every day since, sometimes as many as 50 times in one day. He has used a plethora of aliases, and even when we told him we knew it was him he has somehow fooled himself into thinking that we are deceived.
Paul has been threatened, but not because he signed a petition. Paul has been threatened by people who blog on KTN who couldn't handle the pressure of his thousands of insulting posts. You need look no further than the responses he has made here for proof of his poor behavior, but indulge yourself for a moment and check some of the threads to see how ridiculous some of it is.
Some people like Paul will never learn how to love people that are different, and we have to learn to accept that too. We should keep our eyes on them so that they don't get themselves into too much trouble, and we should be ready to answer their lies with the truth. "All that evil needs to be prosperous is for good men to do nothing."
Posted by: John Hosty-Grinnell | Aug 31, 2007 9:51:17 AM
Thanks John,
Obviously Paul wears a tin foil hat, and not a fashionable one either.
I NEVER said anything about Christianity or any religion. I have to wonder what color is the sky on his planet. As I’m sure his planet is only 6,000 years old.
Paul – get help. They have medicines that will help your psychosis.
Posted by: ELI | Aug 31, 2007 10:26:22 AM
And Hosty was the one who published my PHONE NUMBER AND BEHOOVED PEOPLE TO CALL AND HARASS ME!!
ARE YOU GOING TO DENY THAT HOSTY YOU LIAR.
AND I GUESS AN INSULTING POST IS A SUBJECTIVE THING. ALL I HAVE BEEN SAYING IS "LET THE PEOPLE VOTE" AND THAT IS INSULTING TO HOSTY.
GIVE US A BREAK
Don't believe Aaron Toleos for a minute. I am from Massachusetts and have personally been threatened and harassed because of signing the petition. Books ordered in my name, my phone number given out with the intent of calling my wife and children. Even People driving to my house and yelling names and swears as my children play in the yard. If this isn't intimidation - i don't know what is. Aaron Toleos lives down my street but still hasn't shown the courage or fortitude to come to my house for this "discussion". Know thy neighbor my foot. They will call you a Nazi, and a KKK man and demonize
Posted by: Paul Jamieson | Sep 1, 2007 9:39:31 AM
If I am a liar Paul, prove it. I gave out your PUBLIC telephone number so that those of us you harass on OUR blog could call you and let you know what they think. I also gave out my telephone number and address to prove there was nothing to fear. I never got a single call, and neither did you. Purhaps you forget saying so on the blog, but the proof is still there. Nice try.
I am sure by now people can see what a wonderful humanitarian Paul Jamieson is, so I need not bother with responding further. People, if you have questions, feel free to contact me.
Posted by: John Hosty-Grinnell | Sep 1, 2007 4:59:49 PM
"I gave out your PUBLIC telephone number so that those of us you harass on OUR blog could call you and let you know what they think."
"If I am a liar Paul, prove it.
I think you just did.
If sticking to the "LET THE PEOPLE VOTE" mantra IS HARASSMENT so be it. Please check the KTN blog from its inception and you will see who's lying.
People of Oregon
DO NOT LET THESE PEOPLE INTIMIDATE YOU!!!!!
Posted by: Paul Jamieson | Sep 2, 2007 11:40:38 AM
Thank you to all for having such a vigorous discussion about our website and intentions. Let me see if I can answer some of the misconceptions I am coming across, and clarify our mission.
First and foremost, KTN is about posting the names of people who sign anti-equality petitions against the GLBT community. The reason for doing so is to promote dialog between the two opposing sides, and if you check out http://www.knowthyneighbor.blogs.com, you'll see it has been quite successful at it's goal.
Another reason that we posted these names is because we knew we were dealing with a very small but virulently dishonest group who would stop at nothing to try and impose their will on those of us in the GLBT community. We knew this group was going to use underhanded tactics, like hire outside of the state, paid per the signature gatherers, and fraud would be rampant. May I direct your attention to:
http://knowthyneighbor.org/fraud.html
Our website played a key role in catching this fraud, and since our website went up, thousands of complaints have been filed because people could see their names were stolen. As a result of this fraud there is an ongoing criminal investigation into the whole debacle.
When we first started in Massachusetts back in September 2005, the same fears came to the surface. People thought that this list would turn into a fiasco of hate crimes perpetrated by gays and their supporters. The mere posting of this already public information was spun as "intimidation". For the record, there has not been one single verifiable case of harassment made as a result of our efforts. Much like the lamentations of how much ill would befall us all if equality in marriage were allowed to exist, there is no substance to the claim. In the years that we have been in operation we have proven that our mission is not one of malice. We want people to talk, and in doing so become more fully informed so that they can realize that their gay Aunt, friend, neighbor is just like them, and deserving of the same equality they enjoy.
Promoting equality is not just the right thing to do, it's the American thing to do. Our country is strong because of it's diversity, not in spite of it. In a melting pot of all cultures on this planet we have to find a way for all of us to all live in respectful harmony. The only thing there is no room for is bigotry. Elevating the GLBT community to the level of equals in marriage in no way diminishes someone else's marriage, or prevents their pursuit of happiness. Please consider visiting the website yourself and leaving us some feedback on our blog. We will all be a little better for the exchange once we Know Thy Neighbor.
I have noticed that some people in this forum feel the need to be vicious and juvenile in their responses. I trust that the good people of Oregon know what that says of those people and their platform. Thank you for your time.
Posted by: John Hosty-Grinnell | Sep 2, 2007 12:51:34 PM
"so I need not bother with responding further"
Another Lie from the liar.
Don't believe a word out of this mans mouth.
" Elevating the GLBT community to the level of equals in marriage in no way diminishes someone else's marriage"
This is a lie and has been proven.
The selfish "transman" who mutilates her body to marry another transman diminishes life in general - not only marriage.
"For the record, there has not been one single verifiable case of harassment made as a result of our efforts"
FOR THE RECORD - THIS IS A LIE. THIS GROUP INCLUDING Hosty disrupted a peaceful "let the people vote" rally in worcester MA. The police told them to go away and clear the sidewalks which they ignored. Then one of them walked smack dab right up into the podium (an ACLU lawyer i might add) and started to HARASS THE SPEAKERS. She was escorted away (after disobeying the police order to stay away) fell dowN (they will tell you she was pushed) and cried ouch. She (of course) is now suing(ACLU)
THAT IS HARASSMENT = YOU HAVE YOUR RALLY I'LL HAVE MINE
YOU HAVE YOUR OPINION - I'LL HAVE MINE
YOU HAVE YOUR VOTE - I'LL HAVE MINE
LOVE THY NEIGHBOR
"LET THE PEOPLE VOTE"
Posted by: Paul Jamieson | Sep 3, 2007 7:06:46 AM
So - Know Thy Neighbor Oregon has censored me from their blog. They had a link to this site which has mysteriously gone away - and the comment I posted today have been removed.
THEY DO NOT WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT PEOPLE REALLY ARE BEING HARASSED. pEOPLE WHO STAND UP TO THEM WILL BE CENSORED,
COWARDS.
PLEASE CONTACT ME AT PAUL
-AND_MICHELLE_JAMIESON@COMCAST.NET FOR THE TRUTH!!!!
Posted by: Paul Jamieson | Sep 7, 2007 12:56:05 AM