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1. GREGG, I should not have said that the UCC doesn't believe a, b or c concerning the Bible. What I should have said is that the UCC does not have an official position stating that the Bible is the literal, inspired and infallible word of God (as the Southern Baptist Church does) and the Church does not take an official position on whether the Bible is even the word of God. That is a central part of UCC. We don't require, demand or even push anyone to believe anything. Some UCC people probably do believe that the Bible is THE word of God but no one that I know in the denomination believes that.

   My contention was that no one has the right to say that ALL Christians believe a, b and c.

   I'll try to keep this short, since it's clear that my long posts cause you grief and leave you feeling that I am being defensive.

   To answer your question ONCE AGAIN. I DON'T DECIDE WHICH PARTS OF THE BIBLE ARE THE "WORDS OF GOD" BECAUSE I DON'T BELIEVE ANY OF THEM ARE. I don't know how else I can say that to get through to you. You've asked the question a number of times and I've answered it a number of times.

   I STILL, for the life of me can't imagine why my beliefs cause people like you so much grief and concern. I try to treat people with the same respect that I expect in return. I actively work for fairness and justice for all people but most especially for the outcast and oppressed. My faith, and my faith community, motivate and inspire me to work for peace, justice and inclusion. Why should I be made to feel that I need to justify my motivations to you or anyone else and why should you care what my motivation is?

   Check out ucctampabay.org and read the Marriage Amendment Resolution (with the scales of justice picture) that is on page two. Check out the other peace and justice issues that my congregation is working on. Many of the issues of justice that my church supports are not popular (like calling for justice for Dr. Sami Al Arian who was found not guilty of the terrorism charges filed against him by our corrupt justice department, yet he, five years later, is still in prison in solitary confinement). That has resulted in our property being vandalized but we still try to stand for peace and justice even when we are attacked for it. These are the kind of Christians that I hang with. How can that possibly be a bad thing?

   With that I'm done being "defensive". I might point out that the reason you aren't having to be "defensive" of your beliefs is because I, and no one else here, is questioning your motivation for believing what you believe or asking you to justify why you believe what you believe or in ANY way challenging your beliefs. That's because I respect your beliefs and know that as long as you don't hurt people and as long as you are happy, I am happy for you. I don't believe you or REASONBASED show the same respect to me or others who are people of faith.

   Peace.

   Posted by: Zeke | Oct 17, 2007 12:45:31 AM

   
   

2. sweet, bleeding jeebus..don't get 'zeke' going ! hahaha.. he obviously has his own little religion going on in his head.
   the reason that ANY religious beliefs cause me any "grief or concern" is when they seek to interfere with my civil rights by asserting that they are speaking from some higher moral authority that tells them that i am a less-deserving citizen and human being. otherwise, you can believe in the flying spaghetti monster.. i couldn't care less.. but there's no reason why, whenever the subject of gay people comes up, that i have to engage in a debate about somebody's 'religious' nonsense.

   Posted by: el polacko | Oct 17, 2007 1:20:51 AM

   
   

3. oh.. and p.s. don't mention the name 'cheney' around leland either ! LOL !
   

   Posted by: el polacko | Oct 17, 2007 1:47:48 AM

   
   

4. and p.p.s .. speaking as one who has never been a huge fan of the lesbonian people, chrissy gephardt is a total doll !

   Posted by: el polacko | Oct 17, 2007 1:54:37 AM

   
   

5. Zeke, when do you have time to post such long messages, day in and day out, on nearly every topic? Do you do anything other than this and, presumably, praying to me? And why is it "grief" when someone expresses their opinion about certain people's beliefs? Religious beliefs are not immune to criticism, why should people not challenge or question them? What's wrong with asking someone to give good reasons to why they believe something that sounds plain silly in the absence of any evidence?

   Posted by: GOD | Oct 17, 2007 2:35:29 AM

   
   

6. ZEKE - if you don't believe that ANY words of the bible are the words of God, then why do you belong to a church? Why not simply belong to a book club that analyzes books other than the bible?

   You are being disingenuous in pretending that you hold the bible in no special regard. You may not know people in your church who believe that the bible is the word of god, but the UCC church is BASED on the bible.

   You picked apart my post because I said, "I have never heard of a Christian religion that believes the Bible is just a book." Even the UCC does not meet this criteria, because they believe that the Bible is the way to the truth of God. The UCC does not give equal weight to the Koran or the works of Buddha, or even Khalil Gibran. They place specific emphasis on the Christian Bible. So I have STILL not heard of a church that simply thinks the bible is just a book equal to any other.

   And you might also note that I am picking apart a BOOK not your particular beliefs. I am trying to get to the bottom of why people feel the need to cling to this book, the bible, especially considering it's more virulent passages.

   You, on the other hand, have decided that this is all about YOU. That's not defensive at all though, right?

   Posted by: Gregg | Oct 17, 2007 10:23:41 AM

   
   

7. This is exactly why my husband tells me that I should stay off of the computer when I'm sick, feeling like sh*t and bored out of my mind stuck in the house all day. He says that I get snippy, confrontational, long winded and self-righteous. I should have taken his advice because he was, as usual, 100% right.

   After a good night's sleep it is abundantly clear to me that I did go WAY over the top. I was being VERY defensive. I did go on and on ranting and raving and I was very confrontational and borderline rude. I'd like to believe that this is out of character for me though GOD's comment makes me wonder.

   I apologize for hijacking this discussion and for being confrontational, defensive and rude to other participants; particularly GREGG and REASONBASED.

   I honestly want to do good in the world and my faith inspires me to do that better, even if it is a religion of one that only exists in my head. I hope others can respect that even if they don't understand it.

   Take care friends.

   Peace.

   Posted by: Zeke | Oct 17, 2007 12:19:05 PM

   
   

8. Thanks Zeke. And I apologize for any bitchiness I sent your way. Heck, I don't even need to be sick to be self righteous! Good thing for husbands, right? LOL

   Posted by: Gregg | Oct 17, 2007 1:56:47 PM

   
   

9. I know right? Who needs the teachings of Jesus, Buddha, Krishna or any of the other Superfriends when you live with a frickin Saint?! :)
   

   Posted by: Zeke | Oct 17, 2007 4:34:06 PM

   
   
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