Hillary Clinton Wins Pennsylvania Primary, Soldiers On

Hillary Clinton took the Pennsylvania primary over Barack Obama with 55% of the vote to Obama’s 45%. The candidates’ speeches, above, via Talking Points Memo. Josh Marshall of TPM notes that, after Pennsylvania, we’re basically back where we started again: “There’s a lot of crowing from Hillary’s campaign tonight about a shift in momentum and doubts about Obama. Tomorrow there will be a lot of chatter from Obama’s campaign that none of that really matters because of the reality of the delegate numbers which won’t change much.”

ClintonAP: “Her victory, while comfortable, set up another critical test in two weeks time in Indiana. North Carolina votes the same day, and Obama already is the clear favorite in a Southern state with a large black population. ‘Now it’s up to you, Indiana,’ Obama said at a rally of his own in Evansville after Pennsylvania denied him a victory that might have made the nomination his.”

The NYT reports: “Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton defeated Senator Barack Obama in Pennsylvania on Tuesday by enough of a margin to continue a battle that Democrats increasingly believe is undermining their effort to unify the party and prepare for the general election against Senator John McCain. Despite a huge investment of time and money by Mr. Obama and pressure on Mrs. Clinton by the party establishment to consider folding her campaign, she won her third big state in a row. Mrs. Clinton showed again that she is a tenacious campaigner with an ability to connect with the blue-collar voters Mr. Obama has found elusive and who could be critical to a Democratic victory in November.”

But is it possible for Clinton to win the nomination? MSNBC’s Chuck Todd does some analysis below, and concludes that it’s almost impossible for Obama to lose his lead in pledged delegates.

Comments

  1. johnosahon says

    JMG, yet he is WINNING in delegates, popular votes and states won. how is hilary going to win the GE, when she can’t even win the democratic primary knowing full when that THE ONLY PEOPLE who like her her the democrats?

  2. jmg says

    He simply cannot seal the deal, after spending all that money and time. I’d be depressed if I were him, and scared.

    He lost Scranton 70%-30%!! What is more likely? That the black and student vote will come around for Clinton or that those Scranton Catholics will come around for Obama?

    Hillary spoke very well. Obama rambled.

    She has a very good argument to the superdelegates now. They were designed to vote on who can win in the fall. That’s why they are SUPER. Bad system, and it won’t be changed until later.

  3. Dom says

    BTW, the margin was closer to 8.5%, not 10. Don’t believe the media spin. Hillary is toast. She has pissed off too many people and has turned into a Republican. I hope Obama crucifies her in his upcoming ad campaign. The sooner these Republican-lite Clintons are thrown out of the Democratic Party, the better. They caused more damge and lost more Congressional seats for us and did more damage to the GLBT community than than their delusional backers can admit. I used to love Hillary. I honestly thought she might be better than her pandering, oily husband. But she has proved to be the same kind of traiorous, Washington insider that will sell us out in a minute. You can say whatever you want about Obama, even about the ex-gay preacher he had on stage that time, but at least he didn’t support and help enstate DADT and the DOMA Act. Fuck you, Hillary, and the pro-Iraq voting horse you rode in on!

  4. says

    Obama is finished. He has yet to win any large states and most of the states he has won will go to Republicans in November. Clinton leads the popular vote because by the time the convention is held in August, the voters in Florida and Michigan will not be disenfranchised. The Super Delegates are not actually committed until the convention and a majority will vote to swing the election to Clinton if necessary. Any other choice by the Democratic party would be suicide. Obama’s long time association with criminals, radicals, lunatics and his militant wife have buried him.

  5. daveynyc says

    WHY CAN’T OBAMA WRAP THIS UP?? There MUST be a reason…perhaps people are FINALLY starting to realize this wolf in sheep’s clothing cannot win a big state if HIS LIFE DEPENDED ON IT. Something is seriously wrong that after all the attacks on Hillary from his camp and the Clinton-hating media in general she is STILL taking these big states. These big states DEMOCRATS NEED to win the general election. After ALL THE MONEY he spent in PA he STILL LOST…he has another shock coming when once again Hillary will sneak in and take Indiana…BARACK OBAMA DOESN’T CARE ABOUT GAY PEOPLE!!!! Hate to be blunt but it’s true…This has gone on long enough…HE CANNOT WIN…He is NOT READY to be President..Let’s come together and FINALLY support the TRUE PASSIONATE AMERICAN who is STRONG enough and SMART enough to get this GREAT COUNTRY back on track!!!!! HILLARY ’08!!!!

  6. nic says

    where to go from here? hillary keeps trouncing barack in the major states. barack wins the caucuses in the red states. he outspent her in PA 3 to 1, and still lost by 10 points.

    this is lunacy. if this were a republican-style primary, instead of the tortuous democratic one, she would’ve had the nod by now. the dems need to work on this. i presume that the party elders who set up this byzantine, labyrinthine process are bouncing their heads off concrete walls.

    anyone who does not agree that this primary has been patently unfair, has no moral authority to denounce hillary. if one were to watch late-night TV monologues, it would become apparent that hillary is fair game, while obama is inviolable. i am sick of the pantsuit jokes. much more than that, i am sick of the pervasive sexist idea that hillary is a public punching bag. and much, much, more than that we, of all people, should be sensitive to the shameless bashing. somewhere, somehow it became OK to slam white women. that is a dismal turn of events. is it white guilt that allows this violence while giving obama a free ride? we need to search our souls.

    despite everything thrown at/against her, she comes back. she’s my girl.

  7. johnosahon says

    Z, stop SPINNING stop LYING, stick to FACTS

    she won by 8.6 points

    http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/

    funny thing is that she was suppose to win by 20 points, why is it that when she wins, it is ALWAYS close, but pbama ALWAYS destroys her by 20-30%?

    why is it that he comes close in her states but she CAN NEVER come close in his states.

    cannot wait till may 6th, where he will destroy her in north carolina and take her state indiana.

  8. Sean H says

    Yes, he obviously cannot win.

    What? Oh, thats right, he leads her in states won, popular vote and delegates pledged.

    Odd that Obama is so beatable and yet, your own candidate has absolutely no mathematically proven chance at beating him.

    I am getting so tired of hearing this spin from Democrats. You people sound like Republicans getting the message from Fox News.

    Do you people know anything about politics? About Name ID and about negatives/positives? Hillary Clinton’s name ID is huge. Everyone knows her. This is usually a good thing. Except for the fact that her negatives are just about as high as her positives. And since her name ID is so high, that’s not going to change.

    This whole campaign is very simple political math. She cannot win. And if she somehow does manage to win against Barack Obama, she will not only lose against McCain, she will cost us seats in Congress.

    Every Nick Lampson that wasn’t supposed to win last year in Republican districts will certainly lose with her at the top of the ticket.

    Why can’t you people see this? She is anathema to the Democratic Party in 08.

  9. says

    The time has come. The time has come. The time is now. Just go. I don’t care how. You can go by foot. You can go by cow. Hillary R. Clinton, will you please go now! You can go on skates. You can go on skis. … You can go in an old blue shoe. Just go, go, GO!

  10. scientitian says

    Um, this is nothing but an awesome victory for the republicans. Any democrat with any common sense should be rooting for whatever outcome will lead to a decisive victory for one of the candidates. What everyone doesn’t seem to realize is that all this bickering on our side (see comments, above) looks REALLY, REALLY BAD to those Americans have not yet committed to a party in the upcoming election. Throughout American history, splits within political parties have always doomed their campaigns. Both sides in the Clinton and Obama spat will have to reconcile in order to win this election, and the longer this goes on the harder it will be.

  11. Derrick from Philly says

    NIC,

    I’m used to JOHNNY LANE, DAVEYNYC, JMG, Z, and others making irresponsible statements during this primary season. Your comment about “ok to slam white women” is extraordinary. Black women have been raped, murdered and lynched in this country for centuries with their murderers and rapists never prosecuted. This is exactly the kind of talk from some Clinton supporters that may make her candidacy unacceptable to many black folks who’ve supported the Democrats ninety percent for 40 years. And the sad thing is that it won’t be her fault, but the fault of those who speak in support of her.

    At this point, I still intend to vote for Hillary Clinton if she pulls off a miracle and wins the nomination. But bigots like JOHNNY LANE must not believe that the niggers (as he would put it) are tied to Democratic Party–if that party allows trashy racists to become representative of Mrs Clinton’s constituency. We lived through many decades of violently racist leaders in the United States; so, we will survive four years of John McCain, and twenty years of a facist Supreme Court. We’ve survived it before.

  12. SeanH says

    OK, SeanH, in the same breath, you say she cannot mathematically win, then you say, “If she does.” You either can or can’t. She can if the superdelegates go her way. So, quit with the “you people” attitude.

    This is a DEMOCRACY. You people who support Obama forget – it’s not about you! It’s about the process, like it or not! If Hillary gets the nomination, it’s because she had enough votes, both regular and superdelegates. If Obama gets it, then it’s for the same reason. And if McCain then wins, then it’s because the PROCESS worked in his favor.

    People don’t vote for candidates they don’t like, and that is so in the primary just as much as it is in the general election.

    Sorry, but NEITHER candidate is guaranteed to beat McCain. Obama is the most liberal of the candidates, and this will be exposed in the general election. Can you think of the last liberal President (as liberal as Obama) to be elected? Don’t say Bill, cuz Obama is more liberal than Bill!

    NEITHER is guaranteed to beat McCain. NEITHER!!!!!!!

  13. Jimmyboyo says

    NIC

    I agree with you on the super delegate part of the process.

    On the representational distribution of pledged delegates? NOPE. Sorry, we are not republicans with winner takes all. It benefits all dems by allowing a wider influence of dem voters to have an impact on our platform. The democratic party is anti-authoritarian by nature.

    The large state thing is a non issue.

    California? NY? Are they ever going to go repub?

    Hillary now needs 71% in all remaining primaries to catch the pledged delegate numbers. Something she did not even do in Arkansas

    Life goes on, the primaries will continue, and we will all be a divided house for just a wee bit longer.

    In the end though it is all of us against white, oldster, authoritarian, elitist, crazy, and bush jr part 2 mccain.

  14. tofer david says

    OBAMA’S LAUNDRY LIST OF LIES

    Read, memorize, swipe and publish!!!
    1. Selma Got Me Born. LIAR–your parents felt safe enough to have you in 1961; Selma had no effect on your birth, as Selma was in 1965.
    2. Father Was A Goat Herder. LIAR–he was a privileged, well educated youth, who went on to work with the Kenyan Government.
    3. Father Was A Proud Freedom Fighter. LIAR–he was part of one of the most corrupt and violent governments Kenya has ever had
    4. My Family Has Strong Ties To African Freedom. LIAR–your cousin Raila Odinga has created mass violence in attempting to overturn a legitimate election in 2007, in Kenya . It is the first widespread violence in decades.
    5. My Grandmother Has Always Been A Christian. LIAR–she does her daily Salat prayers at 5 a.m. according to her own interviews. Not to mention Christianity wouldn’t allow her to have been one of 14 wives to 1 man.
    6. My Name is African Swahili. LIAR–your name is Arabic and Baraka’ (from which Barack came) means blessed in that language. Hussein is also Arabic and so is Obama.
    7. I Never Practiced Islam. LIAR–you practiced it daily at school, where you were registered as a Muslim and kept that faith for 31 years, until your wife made you change so you could run for office.
    8. My School In Indonesia Was Christian. LIAR–you were registered as Muslim there and got in trouble in Koranic Studies for making faces (check your own book).
    9. I Was Fluent In Indonesian. LIAR–not one teacher says you could speak the language.
    10. Because I Lived In Indonesia, I Have More Foreign Experience. LIAR–you were there from ages 6 to 10 and couldn’t even speak the language. What did you learn, how to study the Koran and watch cartoons?
    11. I Am Stronger On Foreign Affairs. LIAR–except for Africa (surprise) and the Middle East (bigger surprise), you have never been anywhere else on the planet and thus have NO experience with our closest allies.
    12. I Blame My Early Drug Use On Ethnic Confusion. LIAR–you were quite content in high school to be Barry Obama, no mention of Kenya and no mention of struggle to identify-your classmates said you were just fine.
    13. An Ebony Article Moved Me To Run For Office. LIAR–Ebony has yet to find the article you mention in your book. It doesn’t–and never did–exist.
    14. A LIFE Magazine Article Changed My Outlook On Life. LIAR–LIFE has yet to find the article you mention in your book. It doesn’t–and never did–exist.
    15. I Won’t Run On A National Ticket In ‘08. LIAR–here you are, despite saying on live TV you would not have enough experience by then and you are all about having experience first.
    16. Present Votes Are Common In Illinois. LIAR–they are common for YOU, but not many others have 130 NO VOTES.
    17. Oops, I Mis-voted. LIAR–only when caught by church groups and democrats did you beg to change your “mis-vote”.
    18. I Was A Professor Of Law. LIAR–you were a senior lecturer ON LEAVE.
    19. I Was A Constitutional Lawyer. LIAR–you were a senior lecturer ON LEAVE.
    20. Without Me, There Would Be No Ethics Bill. LIAR–you didn’t write it, introduce it, change it or create it.
    21. The Ethics Bill Was Hard To Pass. LIAR–it took just 14 days from start to finish.
    22. I Wrote A Tough Nuclear Bill. LIAR–your bill was rejected by your own party for its pandering and lack of all regulation-mainly because of your Nuclear Donor, Exelon, from which David Axelrod came.
    23. I Have Released My State Records. LIAR–as of March, 2008, state bills you sponsored or voted for have yet to be released, exposing all the special interests pork hidden within.
    24. I Took On The Asbestos Altgeld Gardens Mess. LIAR–you were part of a large group of people who remedied Altgeld Gardens. You failed to mention anyone else but yourself in your books.
    25. My Economics Bill Will Help America. LIAR–your 111 economic policies were just combined into a proposal which lost 99-0, and even YOU voted against your own bill.
    26. I Have Been A Bold Leader In Illinois. LIAR–even your own supporters claim to have not seen BOLD action on your part.
    27. I Passed 26 Of My Own Bills In One Year. LIAR–they were not YOUR bills but rather handed to you after their creation by a fellow Senator, to assist you in a future bid for higher office.
    28. No One Contacted Canada About NAFTA. LIAR–the Canadian Government issued the names and a memo of the conversation your campaign had with them.
    29. I Am Tough On Terrorism. LIAR–you missed the Iran Resolution vote on terrorism and your good friend Ali Abunimah supports the destruction of Israel.
    30. I Am Not Acting As President Yet. LIAR–after the NAFTA Memo a dead terrorist in the FARC, in Colombia, was found with a letter stating how you and he were working together on getting FARC recognized officially.
    31. I Didn’t Run Ads In Florida. LIAR–you allowed national ads to run 8-12 times per day for two weeks-and you still lost.
    32. I won Michigan. LIAR–no you didn’t.
    33. I won Nevada. LIAR–no you didn’t.
    34. I Want All Votes To Count. LIAR–you said let the delegates decide.
    35. I Want Americans To Decide. LIAR–you prefer caucuses that limit the vote, confuse the voters, force a public vote and only operate during small windows of time.
    36. I passed 900 Bills in the State Senate. LIAR–you passed 26, most of which you didn’t write yourself.
    37. My Campaign Was Extorted By A Friend. LIAR–that friend is threatening to sue if you do not stop saying this. Obama has stopped saying this.
    38. I Believe In Fairness, Not Tactics. LIAR–you used tactics to eliminate Alice Palmer from running against you.
    39. I Don’t Take PAC Money. LIAR–you take loads of it.
    40. I Don’t Have Lobbyists. LIAR–you have over 47 lobbyists and counting.
    41. My Campaign Had Nothing To Do With The 1984 Ad. LIAR–your own campaign worker made the ad on his Apple in one afternoon.
    42. My Campaign Never Took Over MySpace. LIAR–Tom, who started MySpace, issued a warning about this advertising to MySpace clients.
    43. I Inspire People With My Words. LIAR–you inspire people with other peoples’ words.
    44. I Have Passed Bills In The U.S. Senate. LIAR–you have passed A BILL in the U.S. Senate– for Africa–which shows YOUR priorities.
    45. I Have Always Been Against Iraq. LIAR–you weren’t in office to vote against it AND you have voted to fund it every single time, unlike Kucinich, who seems to be out gutting you, Obama. You also seem to be stepping back from your departure date – AGAIN.
    46. I Have Always Supported Universal Health Care. LIAR–your plan leaves us all to pay for the 15,000,000 who don’t have to buy it.
    47. I Only Found Out About My Investment Conflicts Via Mail. LIAR–both companies you cite as having sent you letters about this conflict have no record of any such letter ever being created or sent.
    48. I Am As Patriotic As Anyone. LIAR–you won’t wear a flag pin and you don’t put your hand over your heart during the Anthem.
    49. My Wife Didn’t Mean What She Said About Pride In Country. LIAR–your wife’s words follow lock-step in the vein of Wright and Farrakhan, in relation to their contempt and hatred of America.
    50. WalMart Is A Company I Wouldn’t Support. LIAR–your wife has received nearly a quater of a million dollars through Treehouse, which is connected to WalMart.
    51. Treehouse Is A Small Company. LIAR–the CEO of Treehouse–last year–made more than the CEO of WalMart, according to public records.
    52. University Of Chicago Hospital Pay Is Fair. LIAR–your wife’s pay raise was nearly 150% her already bloated rate and the hospital is a Non-Profit Hospital, which made $100,000,000 in the last 3 years. They overcharge blacks VS whites for services and overcharge everyone in general by 538%!
    53. I Barely Know Rezko-Only 5 Billed Hours. LIAR–you have known him for 17 years and decided to do a real estate deal with him during a time when he was proven to be under investigation. Despite this, you divided your property and had $300K taken off before the mortgage problems started. Then Rezko’s wife buys the lot beside it that you can’t afford saving you $625,000.
    54. My Donations Have Been Checked Thoroughly. LIAR–you only gave back Hsu ($72K) and Rezko (first $66K, then when caught lying $86K, then when caught lying again $150K and now caught lying YET AGAIN OBAMA, it’s $250k) their money when publically called on their involvement in your campaigns.
    55. My Church Is Like Any Other Christian Church. LIAR–your church is so extreme, the pastor who married you, Rev. Wright, just got done blaming the US for 9/11 and named Louis Farrakhan their person of the year.
    56. I Disagree With My Church All The Time. LIAR–you have yet to repudiate Wright, who married you and your wife and you still donate large sums of money to assist the church in furthering its message–hatred and revenge. In 2006 alone you donated $22,500 to the church you so terribly disagree with. That is nearly $500 PER WEEK-that sure is disagreement, Senator Obama.
    57. I Have Clean Connections Despite Rezko. LIAR–you are not only connected to Exelon and Rezko, you are also connected to Hillary PAC supporter Mr. Hsu AND an Iraqi Billionaire of ill repute, Nadhmi Auchi, who ripped off people in the Food For Oil Iraqi deal. Seems Mr. Auchi may have helped Obama buy his million dollar property long before Obama had millions of dollars. Wonder what favors Mr. Auchi expects when Obama leaves Iraq free to be taken over by special interests such as him.
    58. I never heard sermons like Rev. Wrights, that have been in videos all day including YouTube. LIAR!–3 days later during your Mea Culpa BS speech you said, “Did I hear controversial statements while I sat in that church? Yes I did.”
    59. The Passport Invasion is a conspiracy to find dirt on me. LIAR–your own Campaign Foreign Policy Advisor is the CEO of the company that looked into your records. PS-You had them look into yours to hide the fact you looked into Clinton’s and McCain’s more than a year before!
    60. Rev. Meeks has nothing to do with my campaigning. LIAR–Rev. Meeks appeared in ads for your Senate Campaign, donated to you and helped raise money, then AND NOW. PS-He also seems to despise America .
    61. My wife didn’t mean America is ignorant, she was just using a phrase. LIAR–again, MicHELLe’s comments perfectly sync with Wright’s, Meek’s, and Farrakhan’s, both in language, anger, and direction.
    62. I am very Anti-Terror. LIAR–[03/30/2008] One of your good pals is long time radical and terrorist William Ayers, with whom you have been seen in the last 12 months and who has helped the now jailed Khalidi, Professor at Columbia who invited Ahmadinejad to the University, to raise money for Palestinian terrorism attacks against Israel. PS-Your church published a pro Hamas Manifesto – guess you weren’t there on THAT Sunday either? How lucky for you.
    63. I have the best plan to cure the Mortgage Crisis. LIAR–[03/30/2008] You and your campaign buddy Penny SubPrime Bank Collapse Prizker have had your little fingers full of subprime cash – Obama has taken $1,180,103 from the top issuers of subprime loans; Obama received $266,907 from Lehman; $5,395 from GMAC; $150,850 from Credit Suisse First Boston; $11,250 from Countrywide; $9,052 from Washington Mutual; $161,850 from Citigroup; $4,600 from CBASS; $170,050 from Morgan Stanley; $1,150 from Centex and last but certainly NOT LEAST-Obama received $351,900 from Goldman Sachs. I am sure that cash all came from folks who knew the subprime loan they had was a dream, eh?
    64. I played a greater role in crafting liberal stands on gun control, the death penalty and abortion. LIAR–[03/31/2008] It was found that Obama-the day after sitting for the interview-filed an amended version of the questionnaire, which appears to contain Obama’s own handwritten notes added to one answer. Read Obama had greater role on liberal survey.
    65. I did NOT play the race card. LIAR–[03/31/2008] Obama was the first to play the race card. According to Philadelphia Inquirer, Quietly, the storm over the hateful views expressed by Sen. Barack Obama’s pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, has blown away the most insidious myth of the Democratic primary campaign. Obama and his surrogates have charged Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton has deliberately and cleverly played the race card in order to label Obama the black candidate.
    66. I did not take money from oil companies. LIAR–[03/31/2008] THE FACTS: True enough, Obama does not take money from oil companies. No candidate does. It is illegal for corporations to give money to politicians.
    Corporations do, however, have political action committees that collect voluntary donations from employees and then donate them to candidates.
    Obama doesn’t take money from PACs. He also doesn’t take money from lobbyists.
    But he does accept money from executives and other employees of oil companies and two of his fundraisers are oil company executives. As of Feb. 29, Obama’s presidential campaign had received nearly $214,000 from oil and gas industry employees and their families, according to an analysis by the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics.
    Clinton had received nearly $307,000 from industry workers and their families and Republican Sen. John McCain, the likely GOP presidential nominee, received nearly $394,000, according to the Center’s totals.
    Two of Obama’s fundraisers are Robert Cavnar, the chairman and chief executive of Houston-based Mission Resources Corp., and George Kaiser, the president and CEO of Tulsa-based Kaiser-Francis Oil Co. Source: Associated Press via Yahoo News.
    67. I don’t think my church is actually particularly controversial, Obama said at a community meeting in Nelsonville, Ohio, earlier this month. LIAR–Yesterday, he told a different story. “Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes,” he said in his speech yesterday in Philadelphia .
    68. Look at my education record in Illinois. LIAR–In reality, Obama never really championed the local councils. He supported them behind the scenes and only eventually came out publicly on their behalf. When he did weigh in, he came down on the wrong side of the debate against protecting principals from unwarranted dismissals and in favor of keeping councils independent, no matter what.
    In the end, the resolution of the conflict between the two sides didn’t alleviate anyone’s concerns. Instead, it prolonged a turf battle that seems to have dragged down academic progress in the years since. Read more here http://www.slate.com/id/2188010?wpisrc=newsletter
    1. Obama claims special birth. Much more so than we might believe.
    Reports emanating from Africa allege his mother was in Kenya with his ARAB Kenyan (NOT Black Kenyan) father–this is clearly shown in Kenyan Govt. Registry documents which list the father as an Arab Kenyan–at a very late term of her pregnancy and was not allowed on a flight to return to HAWAII .
    She gave birth to him in Kenya , immediately got on a plane and then registered him as being born in Hawaii.
    2. He is NOT an African American but an Arab American and cannot claim African minority status, which by US Federal regulations require a person to have 1/8 (one eighth) of the minority blood (12%).
    From his mother he has 50% white blood, from his father he has 43.25% Arab blood and from his MATERNAL GRANDMOTHER he manages to hold onto 6.75% African or Black heritage blood.
    He has had to duck and weave all his life and use whatever lies he could use to even pass for black and the benefits this minority status provided. So even this, while understandable-is a documented LIE.

  15. Jimmyboyo says

    Seanh

    intersting thing about “liberal”

    NIXON was more liberal than bush and mccain.

    NIXON opened up discussions with a country we were in a silent war with….CHINA (think Iran)

    Nixon started the EPA. The environmental protection agency. HELLO, the EPA that bush jr has tried to gut even of Reagan era regulations.

    Speaking of Reagan, he was even more liberal than bush jr. reagan himself would fail the litmus tests of the neo-conservatives

  16. tofer david says

    Sean H.

    You are naive. Obama currently struggles with key voters. Obama cannot win a general election without these key voters.

    You must not understand the electoral college either. It is a different system than you seem to be familiar with.

    McCain will rehash Obama’s flaws in the coming months in a way Hillary hasn’t or hasn’t been able to.

    I’d also add that Larry Sinclair ain’t done yet either.

  17. Jimmyboyo says

    Tofer

    You are naive

    All polls show that 63-73% of america does not believe a person over 70 can or should be president of the USA

    McCain is 72 and has not released his medical records.

    Just wait till the dems are done with our primaries and people actualy take a look at McCain.

    He can’t win except a paid trip to the old folks home.

    Sorry, reality is knocking on your door

  18. jmg says

    Jimmyboyo–stop with the polls nonsense. People lie all the time when they are called to participate.

    Go out and talk to some people on the street instead of spending all day long on comment boards.

  19. Jimmyboyo says

    Tofer

    A weak argument that the majority of america is not repub, that dems have seen unprecedented new voter registration sometimes 5-10 times the number of registered repubs in a state, that ALL polls on age show that america by 2/3 do not want a president over 70 (mccain is over 72)

    Mccain and repubs are pissing in the wind this year.

    The only reason mccain has any positives is because the dems have not focused on him yet.

    Just wait till the primaries are over and a united dem party actualy debates oldster, temper tantrum, walking around with a freaking tumor on his face, bush jr, can’t remember what he said yesterday, doesn’t understand economics mccain

  20. Sean H says

    For the record, the second post by Sean H was someone else.

    And yes, there is no way she can win. No way. I’m sorry that you cannot accept this. Yes, this is a democracy and the people have already spoken. Hillary Clinton is done. All that she has left is to tear the Democratic Party apart because she only believes that the Presidency somehow belongs to her.

    Again, Obama owns the delegates pledged lead, the states won lead and the popular vote lead. So where do you get off saying that this is a Democracy and somehow Obama and his campaign is somehow not a part of that?

    Stop drinking the kool-aid. Stop with the talking points. Stop trying to tear the Democratic Party apart and making this so much easier for John McCain.

    The people have spoken. The writing is on the wall. Obama will be the nominee. It’s just a matter of time.

  21. STHolihan@hotmail.com says

    Tofer,

    It is obviously you that doesn’t understand Superdelegates. She would have to earn around 60% of the superdelegates while winning the rest of the states, with very solid margins, to win the nomination.

    Or better yet, just watch the damn video that was posted. Might learn you something on Hillary’s chances.

  22. tofer david says

    The states won argument is such an inadequate argument. It is so trivial that it is laughable to continue to hear it made. Stop it. There are better arguments.

    Yeah North Dakota!

  23. Sean H says

    Okay, so no mention of the popular vote total?

    How’s that? I guess that doesn’t matter either after all the years of us complaining about Al Gore?

    So, do people like you sacrifice all of your integrity for politicians you back or what?

  24. tofer david says

    I never said Hillary was going to win.

    I never said anything about superdelagates either.

    I only commented on Obama and McCain.

    I pointed out that Obama has serious issues with key voters. Obama’s wins in places like North Dakota mean nothing in an election against McCain. The key voters in states that are critical to a democratic win can easily swing to McCain.

    A democratic victory in November is not going to be a cakewalk. McCain is actually doing quite well in places that should be the democrats. Take a look at Massachusetts.

  25. Sean H says

    “You must not understand the electoral college either. It is a different system than you seem to be familiar with.”

    TOFER DAVID

    Just a couple posts up.

  26. tofer david says

    Sean,

    You prove my point. You and others point out how Obama has won more states including states that will be clearly McCain in a general election. These states are not as relevant. The states that are relevant are those that could swing McCain. Places where a democrat will win will go democrat.

    The electoral college is winner take all. Places like North Dakota are meaningless to Obama. The fact that Obama beat Hillary there is meaningless.

    Ohio, Florida, Missouri, Arkansas, and West Virginia are questionable states in a McCain Obama matchup. With McCain leading well in these places.

  27. tofer david says

    I can read the polls.

    McCain-Obama = Obama up 1.2%
    McCain-Clinton = Clinton up .1%

    Some of the polls range percentage points either way. Again, this percentage isn’t as relevant because the popular vote isn’t what decides who is president…the electoral college does.

    In match ups against McCain here are the results by state:

    Pennsylvania
    Obama-McCain = Obama +2.2
    McCain-Clinton = Clinton +6.2

    Ohio
    Obama-McCain = McCain +2.6
    McCain-Clinton = Clinton +5.0

    Florida
    Obama-McCain = McCain +11.7
    Clinton-McCain = McCain +0.3

    Clinton does better where it matters.

  28. Dom says

    Hillary is delusional. She is screaming about her huge victory in PA (just like she crowed over her huge “victory” in Texas, accomplished by Republican Limbaugh crossovers, and which still ended up being a delegate win for Obama), not mentioning she blew a 20-26 point lead – with the support of nearly the ENTIRE Pennsylania Denmocratic machine, under the auspices of Gov. Rendell – and has bankrupted her campaign in the process. CNN and the rest of the media are trying to keep this alive but we know the truth: her campaign is through. I don’t care if she did raise $2.5M after this primary (almost enough to pay Mark Penn and his McCain-lovin’ firm) – Obama will raise more, and his campaign will now use everything in its power to finish her off. She has squandered everything on one primary win. She has alienated a huge amount of voters in the Democratic Party. She has won a less than double-digit victory in a state that she should have been able to practically ignore just a few weeks ago. She now needs to win EVERY upcoming primary with at least 68-70% of the delegate count, which can basically be done by machine-gunning every potential Obama voter. The only way Hillary can win the nomination is by stealing and intimidation, which will ruin her – and the Dems’ – chances in the GE against McSame. So go ahead, Hillary. Keep living in your little dream world. Get Edwards or whatever other person you can to try to help you out of the hole you have dug. Try denying your Iran remarks and your Iraq War vote and your deep and abiding love of John McCain and your insults to the hard working progressive base and NetRoots of the Democratic Party. I’ll just sit here and watch the meltdown. It will be quite fun watching the end of you and your husband’s political careers. Oh, and my figure of a lead of about 8.5 points was correct, verified by the Penn election website. And I never called her a bitch, or used sexist remarks against her, which is more than I can say for the veiled racism of the Clinton campaign, especially by her husband – you know, America’s “first black president”.

  29. Javier Mendez says

    Clinton won Pennsylvania for two key reasons: Only Democrats could vote in the primary, and the Keystone State electorate is dominated by the elderly, who are staunchly for Clinton.

    Despite her claims of electability, Hillary has never done well among independent voters. And Obama usually loses the Democrats. Pennsylvania’s closed-primary rules gave her a key advantage.

    Older voters are flocking to Clinton as fears mount of what Obama might do as president mount. But those under 45 – less focused, perhaps, on race – are moving toward Obama. Here, that split helped her.

    Of the 50 states, only Florida has a higher over-65 proportion of its population. But there’s a key difference: Florida’s elderly moved there – Pennsylvania’s are the folks that are left after the young people moved away.

    Pennsylvania Democrats, in other words, suffer from future shock. They welcome old, established ways and embrace dynasties happily because they are so familiar. (Look at the Bob Caseys – dad was governor, the son is senator.)

    But don’t expect the open primaries of Indiana and North Carolina to behave like Pennsylvania’s geriatrics. Both states are younger, especially North Carolina, and independents can vote in each primary. (North Carolina is where a lot of the young people who fled Pennsylvania winters and job losses ended up).

  30. tofer david says

    Obama did lose all the older voter categories, starting at age 45. He lost white people, both genders. And with respect to every background, he lost the working-class folks, the union members, and the non-college educated. He lost suburbanites (including two of the suburban Philadelphia counties, Montgomery and Bucks, that he needed to win by comfortable margins), small-town dwellers, and rural residents. He lost the white Catholics and he lost the Jews. He lost the culturally-conservative Democrats on Bob Casey’s home turf, Lackawanna County, by a 3 to 1 margin.

    Thirteen percent of white voters statewide said that the race of the candidate was important to them; of those voters, 74 percent cast their ballots for Hillary Clinton. This is arguably a warning sign that Obama may face a higher racial hurdle than many observers have generally assumed.

  31. daveynyc says

    One thing most of you are forgetting is Obama is an idiot. He is the delusional one…with his dream like promises of a perfect world that only he can create for America…GIVE ME A BREAK! Hillary will do what she does best…She’ll fight and SHE WILL WIN. She’ll just sit tight and wait until he slips up because HE WILL SLIP UP, let’s face it, he is a liar with a homophobe as a pastor…Then her case will be made to the supers that she is indeed the BEST candidate to take on McCain…Once the Florida and Michigan votes are counted we will see who America really wants to be the nominee…Florida and Michigan ARE PART of the U.S. and there votes should be counted. As a democrat if she doesn’t fight for those votes, it will be a sad day for democracy indeed.

  32. rudy says

    Javier, Thank you. Finally, a voice of reason among the screaming twinks and delusional old trolls. The majority of commenters make the mistake of assuming that the rest of this country believes and, most importantly, votes as they would wish rather than their consistent center right stance.

    Hillary cannot beat McCain. What is she going to run on, her “experience”? McCain would wipe the floor with her. Her loss would make those of McGovern and Mondale look like Democratic high points.

    Yes, people want change, hate the war, and are fearful of the declining economy, so the election is the Democrat’s to lose. Unfortunately, pitting Hillary (whom most people who vote view as McCain-Lite) against McCain is the fervent wish of the ultra conservative Republicans, who otherwise cannot abide McCain. The only hope for a Democratic triumph this autumn, is for the young people to actually vote for their candidate of choice, Obama. Obama would present a stark contrast to McCain.

    What is most laughable (nee pathetic) is that HRC’s positions differ from Obama’s only slightly but he has a much greater likelihood of actually getting something enacted. HRC as President would only be a revival of political victim-hood and legislative paralysis. Billary has perfected the Atwater-Rovian style of divisive and dirty politics.

    As I have wondered here before: what do gay men have in common with Hillary’s most fervent supporters: old, white (including Hispanic), poorly educated, lower socio-economic class, Roman Catholic, women?

  33. Landis says

    I support HRC, but I think Obama will win the primaries. Delegates are not going to go against the people.

    But I think the larger story is how consistently Dems elect people with no electability in a genearl election. Look at HRC’s voter base – she has expanded into Republican territory in rural and small towns. large urban centers are Dems’ anyway.

    Jimmy I am waiting to collect my USD $10.

  34. says

    Rudy,
    It’s the diva effect. Gay men love a woman scorned, they can connect to it. Especially older white queens.

    Jeremiah white is not a homophobe. You’re talking about that Mclurklin guy, or what ever his name is. Obama used him to show his followers the problem with thier homophobia is. You people need to get your facts straight.

    Hillary is a old white woman who doesn’t give two shits about your gay ass.

  35. tofer david says

    Rudy,

    Javier is so reasoned ’cause he totally lifted his passage from the New York Post. Written by none other than Dick Morris. You will all remember Dick Morris as the former Clinton aide that turned on the Clintons after they woudln’t bail him out after getting caught sucking on a hooker’s toes. Same hotel that Spitzer was caught with his hooker. Go figure Javier is truly reasoned.

  36. Jamal says

    I will tell you this. If Hillary gets the nomination, I will gladly vote for McCain, and will huge numbers of black voters. And when is the last time the Dems won a presidential election without getting over 80% of the Black vote? In modern history, NEVER. I would rather deal with a rightwing Supreme Court than vote for Hillary.

  37. Hezekial says

    Older white gay men are generally a very racist lot who tend to identify with women more than men. They tend to be effeminate, which leads to them idolizing “strong” women. It is bizarre, but explains why they like Hillary so much. It’s their effeminate vexation mixed with racist tendancies.

  38. realitythink says

    Jamal,
    Don’t be foolish. We have a Supreme Court that will be around a lot longer than any president.

    Voting for McCain would be a huge mistake, simply because of that.

    But it would be nice to see a rethuglican clean up Georgies mess.

  39. nic says

    BIGBEAR, beautiful! thanx for the link.

    “This isn’t to say that ‘sexism is worse than racism’, it’s just to point out that sexism – no, sorry, untrammelled, uninhibited, shuddering, shivering, gut-wrenching misogyny – unlike racism, is considered perfectly acceptable prime time fare.”

    my point exactly! however, we need not suggest that others read this article; it contains big words and abstract thoughts. and thinking is so damned hard! i will say (apparently, ad infinitun) that i will support either of the dems against mccodger. but i believe in playing fair. and this has not been fair at all, not at all. hillary is a bitch, a cunt, a scheming whore, an opportunist, a pant-suit wearing dynastic dyke. she takes it all and like the old timex ads, she keeps on ticking. if that is not a leader, well, i don’t know shit.

    DERRICK, get over yourself! everyone brings their hurts to this table. yours do not supersede mine.

  40. daveynyc says

    Realitythink- I was actually referring to the very homophobic Rev. James T. Meeks who has counseled Obama on many occasions, not Jeremiah White…I know there are so many homophobic people in his life, it’s hard to keep track..hezekial-I AM a Hillary supporter and I am a 27 y/o hot, sexy, masculine latino…so? I just don’t like Obama because he will not beat McCain so what’s the point really? I don’t want another Republican in the white house and if he is the nominee that is SURE to happen, other than that i still love you guyz :)

  41. Derrick from Philly says

    JAMAL, I know how you feel, but let’s not go there UNLESS WE HAVE TO. I expected her to win Pennsylvania. I expected some gloating by Hillary’s folks–it’s only fair. I did not expect to see so many of her supporters share the sentiments of white supremacists like those who posted on this thread–those who believe that no Black American should ever hold high public office.

    Hillary Clinton is a brilliant human being, a fine US Senator, and great Democrat. She has also been a brave Democrat–taking on the right-wing bastards in this hypocritical country. I’m saying this as a Barack Obama supporter. All I’m asking of Senator Clinton is that she acknowledge that too many of her supporters are against Barack because of his color, and those same supporters are contemptuous of black people period. THe comments on this blog have shown that time and time again. I was too naive in not realizing such racist bigots still exist in the Democratic Party, and in white gay communities. During Gore or Kerry’s primary campaigns you never heard the racist Democrats open their ugly mouths, but Barack’s presence is bringing them out into the open like roaches.

    Mrs Clinton must give a speech addressing the issue of race in America, race in American history, and how protecting white supremacy is for some an ugly factor in this current Democratic Party Primaries. They forced Barack Obama to give a speech on race because of “controversial” statements by his supporters and associates. It is now time for Hillary Clinton to do the same. If she gets the nomination, she DAMN WELL BETTER do it.

  42. Paul R says

    Wow, Hezekiel, that’s the strangest, most convoluted set of generalizations and bizarre stereotypes I’ve heard in some time. An I’m not even an older white man.

    I’d expect to hear such comments from Karl Rove or Dick Cheney, not a commenter on this site.

  43. realitythink says

    Dave,
    Your wrong, if you look at the polls you’ll see that Obama fares better against McInsane than Hillary in state by state match ups. You’re argument is ridiculous, he is winning in RED states and any democrat is going to win the traditional coastal blue states. You’re listening to too much TV pundit propoganda!!

    The same pundits that say latinos won’t vote for a black guy.

  44. Derrick from Philly says

    NIC,

    Get over myself?
    Shit, I don’t matter a shit. My hurts shouldn’t matter to anyone but me. It’s when you talk about whole groups of people that you ought to be careful what you say. You complain its “OK to slam white women”. If she’s running for president, NIC.

    Poor white women getting slammed. Oh, my. Tell that to Mary Turner–way down in Valdosta Georgia….see how they slammed her.

  45. Jimmyboyo says

    landis

    I still swear that I will be collecting that $10 candaian from you. In fact with the us economy the way it is, I am counting on it.

    :-)

    Davenyc

    If the meeks thing had any legs then Hillary’s campaign would run with it. Her campaign hasn’t and thus logicaly it has no legs.

    Also Michigan and Fl

    Michigan didn’t have 4 candidates on their ballots and a judge has ruled it was an unconstitutional election.

    Hillary herself said that it would not count before the election even took place.

    I wish that both had held rule abiding revotes but they didn’t.

    By all means seat them but at the very least they must be punished by the standards set up by a high ranking Clinton campaign staffer. 1/2 pledged delegats not counted and super ds stripped.

    That is the exact rule that clinton signed on to at the beggining of the primaries (the lee way to strip all by the DNC is allowable but an argument can be made that Hillary did not sign onto that).

    She did indeed sign on with a fleet of her lawyers watching to the stripping of 1/2 of delegates and stripping all super d’s from states that broke the rules.

    This would still give Hillary a slight bounce in numbers while also abiding by the rules she signed onto while also allowing a voice for both michigan and Fl at the convention.

    NIC

    I disagree with what is required characteristics for a good president, but for damn sure I know I want Hillary by my side in a bar fight.

  46. Jimmyboyo says

    PS

    Winston Churchhill said

    Democracy is the worse form of government. All others are even worse than that.

    It is flawed and a headache, but in the end it is the best form of government that humans have come up with so far.

  47. Jimmyboyo says

    tofer

    You obviously weren’t listenin

    “We are the ones we have been waiting for…” is that we are all our own messiah. Not that he is any such but rather the people united behind our commonalities can create great changes and empower politicans to do what needs to be done.

    Hillary has liked enough of his message to have introduced “Yes we can” to many of her own campaigns.

    The benefit of a long primary is they both have influenced each other and their platforms for the better.

    McCain’s message is “I have no clue and lets continue the bush years.”

    Obama 08

    Hillary as supreme court judge back handing scalia and thomas into submission

    Bush and cheney on trial for war crimes

    McCain retired to an old folks home 08

    :-)

  48. realitythink says

    Hey DaveinNYC,

    Read and weep.. Maybe you should start canvasing for McCain, I hear he’s got a special place for cute (oh sorry HOT) latino’s who are in their late 20’s but so seriously misinformed.

    We can stop the delegate math: Turning to the delegate math, if Clinton nets approximately 16 delegates out of Pennsylvania, she’ll trail in the pledged battle by 150 delegates. With just 408 pledged delegates remaining, that means she’d need 68% of all pledged delegates left to overtake Obama. Now, if Obama and Clinton simply split the 187 delegates up for grabs on May 6 basically down the middle (which would be a rosy projection in Clinton’s favor) and Obama’s pledged delegate lead simply stayed at 150 and didn’t grow to 160 (the most likely outcome in two weeks), Clinton would need to win 85% of the then 221 remaining delegates up for grabs. 85%! As we mentioned on air last night, the battle for pledged delegates is over, Obama will win that metric and win it by some 100+ delegates.

    Game over. Now all she’ll do is tear the party apart before she turns the lights out.

  49. tofer david says

    Jimmybro,

    Did I touch a nerve?

    We’re here to evolve to a higher plane . . . he is an evolved leader . . . [he] has an ear for eloquence and a Tongue dipped in the Unvarnished Truth.”–Oprah Winfrey.

    This is bigger than Kennedy. . . . This is the New Testament.” | “I felt this thrill going up my leg. I mean, I don’t have that too often. No, seriously. It’s a dramatic event.” –Chris Matthews

    Obama is ] creative imagination which coupled with brilliance equals wisdom . . . [He is] the man for this time.” –Toni Morrison

    I’ll do whatever he says to do. I’ll collect paper cups off the ground to make his pathway clear.” –Halle Berry

    “a light will shine through that window, a beam of light will come down upon you, you will experience an epiphany … and you will suddenly realize that you must go to the polls and vote for Obama” – Barack Obama Lebanon, New Hampshire.
    January 7, 2008.

    He is the one we have been waiting for.

    Praise the lord. He has risen.

  50. nic says

    DERRICK,

    i am adressing general issues. you insist on focusing on specifics. how reaganesque. you and i agree on most things. how am i wrong in my assessment?

  51. daveynyc says

    This thread is like Starbucks, I know I shouldn’t come back here but I can’t stop..

    realitythink, I don’t look at polls anymore, they don’t mean ANYTHING. I won’t comment on which race votes for whom, cuz I don’t care…The way I see it, if Obama is the nominee McCain will have a field day with his inexperience, lack of patriotism and a thousand other things. Hillary has been through what the republicans can dish out a thousand times before and nothing has ever really stuck. She is more able and ready to take us to the White House. If God forbid, Obama is the nominee, McCain will have him for breakfast..

  52. says

    The arguments of Hillary vs. Obama are over—he has won, fair and square. She can’t beat him in delegates and it would be almost impossible for her to take the popular vote. I don’t believe superdelegates will save her, though they could…but McCain isn’t the nominee yet, either, he could be rejected at the convention…and that won’t happen. The argument now isn’t which should win, but whether the fact that he has won should matter.

    Also, any Dems who think Obama can’t beat McCain are big chickens who are paying only selective attention to what’s been learned from the campaign. Yes, she has taken some of his votes in key constituencies. However, polling be damned (we all get mad during the polling), most Dems will vote for the Dem—any Dem—in November. More of the country IDs as Dem right now, more new Dems have registered and voted this year, all trends are anti-Bush legacy.

    McCain right now, when he should be at his PEAK support with Dems fighting, trails Obama by 2 points nationally in the Gallup poll, carries all the Kerry states in polling and is ahead of McCain in all the swing states from 2004.

    Once the nominating process is over (when Hillary loses NC and possibly, though this is less certain, IN), all the bullshit will be forgotten, Obama will focus on McCain, the news media will be forced to refocus on McCain (ancient,t poor health, angry, violent, lobbyist-fucker, Bush-tied, called his own wife a cunt in public) and McCain will sink like a stone.

    Have some vision, Democrats—we’re still in a great position to win.

  53. Leland Frances says

    There’s a saying, “You’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.”

    There’s much to criticize about Sen. Clinton but the “legislative paralysis” that consistent cretin Rudy predicts were she President is nothing but a parroting of a popular myth. More than one media analysis has revealed, sometimes reluctantly, her amazing ability to work in Congress for the bipartisan passage of important bills with even President Clinton’s worst enemies such as Newt Gingrich and Trent Lott.

    Even a very hostile 2006 “Atlantic Monthly” article admitted, “Her deft touch with conservative colleagues has thus far neutralized the Republican National Committee’s strategy of getting people to put her in the same mental category as bumbling liberals like Nancy Pelosi and Howard Dean. She’s no easy target. Her partnerships were deemed so successful in moderating her image that Karl Rove, according to a source close to him, sent word last year to halt Republican cooperation with her—an edict that has been ignored. As the atmosphere in Washington has deteriorated, Clinton has emerged within the Senate as the unlikeliest of figures: she, not George W. Bush, has turned out to be a uniter, not a divider.”

    As for pissing absurdities such as “steal the nomination” ….is it kept in a box somewhere….will the Clintonistas knock out the guards or simply offer free A&F T-shirts to the Obama Queens guarding it….or “destroying the Party”……or that her campaign has any delusions about pledged delegates….can someone please send the children wetting themselves about such things out to play?

    “Why, ask many Democrats and media commentators, won’t Hillary Rodham Clinton see the long odds against her, put her own ambitions aside, and gracefully embrace Barack Obama as the inevitable Democratic nominee? Here is why: She and Bill Clinton both devoutly believe that Obama’s likely victory is a disaster-in-waiting. Naive Democrats just don’t see it. And a timid, pro-Obama press corps, in their view, won’t tell the story. But Hillary Clinton won’t tell it, either.

    A lot of coverage of the Clinton campaign supposes them to be in kitchen-sink mode — hurling every pot and pan, no matter the damage this might do to Obama as the likely Democratic nominee in the fall.

    In fact, the Democratic race has not been especially rough by historical standards. What’s more, our conversations with Democrats who speak to the Clintons make plain that their public comments are only the palest version of what they really believe: that if Obama is the nominee, a likely Democratic victory would turn to a near-certain defeat.

    Far from a no-holds-barred affair, the Democratic contest has been an exercise in self-censorship. Rip off the duct tape and here is what they would say: Obama has serious problems with Jewish voters (goodbye Florida), working-class whites (goodbye Ohio) and Hispanics (goodbye, New Mexico).

    Republicans will also ruthlessly exploit openings that Clinton — in the genteel confines of an intraparty contest — never could. …

    There’s nothing to say that the Clintonites are right about Obama’s presumed vulnerabilities. But one argument seems indisputably true: Obama is on the brink of the Democratic nomination without having had to confront head-on the evidence about his general election challenges.
    That is why some friends describe Clinton as seeing herself on a mission to save Democrats from themselves. Her candidacy may be a long shot, but no one should expect she will end it unless or until every last door has been shut.

    Skepticism about Obama’s general election prospects extends beyond Clinton backers. We spoke to unaffiliated Democratic lawmakers, veteran lobbyists, and campaign operatives who believe the rush of enthusiasm for Obama’s charisma and fresh face has inhibited sober appraisals of his potential weaknesses.” – Politico, April 18th

    But the ship [whether or not one recognizes it as a Swift Boating of the Clintons by the Obama Borg as racists] has probably sailed and we’ll know in a few months whether Obama is an Admiral of Change or Gilligan.

  54. realitythink says

    Dave,
    Like I said, you’re watching way to much TV. You sound exactly like the morons who spew this crap all day long on cable news.

    Exactly what is Obama’s “lack of patriotism”?

    You must’ve love the ABC debate last week. Right up your alley.

  55. rudy says

    Derrick from PA, Right there with you. Ignore NIC (as do the rest of us), he admitted that he “don’t know shit”. He set the parameters but his stated assumptions fail his conclusion, in that they do not a leader make. HRC has woefully mismanaged the only things for which she has been responsible: her sham of a marriage, health care reform debacle, and her disastrous campaign. She has conflated her own ruthless self-interest and ambition with Rovian divisive politics and added a soupcon of victimization.

    I do agree with those who would want her on their side in a bar brawl. I have seen her in action throwing things at underlings (her term) and cussing at them like a banshee.

    N.b. I did not call her a ‘banshee’ and have never called her any of the other b and c words so save your personal attacks. I characterized the behaviour that I have seen her consistently exhibit. She cannot win the nomination except by changing the rules that her own subordinates put into effect. HRC really does demonstrate behaviour that puts herself above all others, including her own political party.

    She is clearly the candidate of choice of old, poor, less well educated, Roman Catholic white (including Hispanic) women. And even among them, her ~26 point lead in Pennsylvania dropped dramatically as people got to know her. She has shown that the more citizens see of her, the less they like her. Her consistent floor of 45% negative rating has increased during this campaign. More than half of the citizens nationwide (~55%) now have a negative opinion of her and state that they will not vote for her. Yet she continues to inflict herself upon the electorate and in so doing damage the Democratic Party.

    When are the Dem’s going to stop handing elections to the Repubs?

  56. Landon Bryce says

    Lots of vitriol for the result I assume everyone expected from the primary. Obama was very wise to shift focus to McCain and start behaving like he is the nominee.

    I remain a reluctant Obama supporter, largely because he is closely tied in to the very bigoted black church community, which has taught African Americans that they are the only significant victims of bigotry. Derrick makes my point for me above- like Obama’s friend Rev. Wright he does not see bigotry when it is not directed at him. Because black women have it worse than white women, he does not the see the extremely troubling role that misogyny has played in this ugly campaign. If you have seen more bigotry against people of color in this campaign than against women, you are either blind or are not looking.

  57. Mike says

    Hill is awesome. What a smart effective campaigner. INCREDIBLE! She is being outspent 4 to 1, 3 to 1 etc. and still WHIPS baby Obama by 10 points. She is tough and can down McCain in a heartbeat. Obama can’t close the deal and does NOT care about gay people. He has ties to radical racist and anti-gay bigots and doesn’t apologize for it. I urge all SMART voters to go to Hillary.com and donate!

  58. Jimmyboyo says

    Rudy

    I must protest

    I am 100% an Obamamaniac, BUT I disagree 1000000000% with you on “Ignore NIC (as do the rest of us)” as I am sure derrick would say as well.

    NIC is very inteligent and a staunch dem. He prefers Hillary, and that is his right as a FREE american. I disagree with his prefering her over Obama, but it is all good.

    We are democtratic not repubs. We allow and enjoy dissenting opinions in our big tent. We are not autocrats

  59. leffos says

    I think it is funny that no one flips the race card and questions the african american vote and why they are voting for Obama?

    If Hillary was black and Obama was white, would the african american community be voting for her???

    There are 2 sides to every race question…it’s funny that the media never addresses the other side of it.

    I think it is a shame that people have allowed the media to form their opinions for them instead of examining facts, not sound bites.

  60. nic says

    RUDY, you are so utterly predictable; every time i think you are progressing, you so readily revert to type. snide commentary and bitchiness never amount to wit. as i have said to you before, if i want any shit from you i’ll squeeze your head.

  61. daniel says

    Why is is that Obama keeps saying Hillary isn’t being fair for wanting a re-vote in Florida and Michigan?

    His argument has been that she is changing the rules to fit what she wants.

    Well if that’s the argument, why is it when she is playing by the rules to make a case to the super delegates about voting for her (because that’s what the super delegates are there for), it’s then said by the Obama campaign that “she’s trying to steal the election”.

    The Obama campaign talks out of both sides of their mouth.

    I think we should have a re-vote in Florida and Michigan, finish all the other primaries, and who ever has won the popular vote, everyone get behind the canidate and go on to win.

    VERY SIMPLE

  62. Derrick from Philly says

    NIC,

    checked out the article by Mark Simpson. He’s right, there has been a lot of misogynistic attacks on Hillary Clinton in the media. But would the same thing happen to Olympia Snow or Barbara Boxer or Debbie Stabenow? Yes, but on a much smaller, less hateful scale. NIC, a lot of folks just don’t like Hillary Clinton. And Barark Obama has nothing to do with their hatred of Hillary.

    If Barack was being cuddled by the media back in December and January, it was up to the Clinton Campaign to do something about it. Instead, they waited–not wanting to offend black Democrats. When they finally went on the attack they let Bill say some stupid shit right around the South Carolina Primary. They should’ve shown the Jeremiah Wright sermon back in Iowa. If Iowa’s white voters couldn’t deal with Wright’s right assessment of American hypocrisy…well, we’d be talking about Hillary’s or John Edwards’ possible choice for a running mate right now, and we wouldn’t have had this escalation of racial animosity within the party (an animosity that I pray I’m exaggerating).

    NIC, Hillary’s Campaign staff lost her the Democratic nomination, not the woman-hating media assholes.

    The issue of misogyny only seems to get attention when white women are the targets, NIC. Racism may be seen as more important to keep in check than misogyny, but only in the media; AND white priviledge is still the norm. Simpson proved that when he called Thatcher the “first great leaderene”. Did he ever hear of Indira Ghandi or the great Golda? (Jews are white, but still a persecuted minority).

    What got me so angry this morning was all the talk about Barack not being able to connect with white working-class Democrats. Oh, you mean the ones who vote Republican every four years? Can Hillary keep them in November?

    Well, Hillary Clinton cannot afford to loose Black Democrats whether she gets the nomination, or in her re-election bid in New York.

    Hey, Rudy, I respect you very much, but I’d like to have NIC on my side in a bar room brawl. Actually, I’d leave, and let y’all two handle the drunken, gay-bashing bullies.
    JIMMYBOYO would help out. He’s skinny, but tough…..now, where have I heard that before?

  63. Jimmyboyo says

    Derrick

    :-)

    Daniel

    you have your info wrong.

    Both campaigns wanted revotes, they couldn’t agree on how to do it.

    Obama not agreeing to a primary as vs a caucus while Hillary wanted a primary vs a caucus as well as Obama wanting NO mail in balots in HUGE!!!!!!!!!!! states that have never done such (unlike smaller Washington with its years of experience with such) is totaly different from what you presented.

  64. Jimmyboyo says

    PS

    Derrick

    DING DING DING DING

    you hit it right on the head with this

    “NIC, Hillary’s Campaign staff lost her the Democratic nomination….”

    EXACTLY!

    Hillary is smart and an experienced politician. Regretably she surrounded herself with some of the worse campaign staff people ever.

    PENN with his microtrends vs macrotrends didn’t see and couldn’t cope with the total desire for change by almost everyone due to the bush yrs.

    Penn didn’t even want Hillary to go into iowa saying it was unnecessary and she was inevitable.

    Her staff never presented her with a competent plan for post Super tuesday.

    Her campaign staff didn’t have a clue how Texas worked with a primary during the day and a caucus at night thus why Obama ended up with more delegates out of TX than she

    Her campaign staff didn’t even field enough delegates in many post super tuesday states.

    A competent campaign would have told her the realities as vs Penn’s “inevitable” schtick. Prepped a ground game plan for post super tuesday. etc.

    Her campaign staff sucked.

    I will put part of the blame for having such a staff at hillary’s feet in that the Clinton’s for bad or good are very much into loyalty. Loyalty vs competence had her allowing many incompetent campaign staffers stay on far longer then they should have.

    A better campaign staff and everything would be different

  65. Joshua says

    Jimmyboyo….there you go again making things up. McCain has not only released all of his medical records but he also released in 2000 all of his military psychological records from after his 5 years in Hanoi as a POW.
    I have said before and I will say it again….you can support who you like, but making up lies is just that, making up lies. Why people like you (and Obama)make up lies that can be easily proven to be lies is beyond me, it only makes you look like a lier but casts doubt on your favorded candidate.

  66. rudy says

    If HRC is so smart and capable, why has she consistently surrounded herself with such incapable people? She chose them, she is supposed to supervise them. If she cannot manage her marriage, cannot line up support for health care reform, and cannot manage her Presidential campaign–all because of repeated secrecy and in-fighting–how do you propose that she would be able to run a country? Her character flaws are all too apparent.

    Sorry, the fish does indeed rot from the head.

    Thanks Derrick. I would definitely have your back in a bar brawl. Believe me darlin’, it would not be my first time at the rodeo, literally and figuratively. One really does not want to threaten my friends when I am around. Offensive little twits, however, are all too easy to ignore.

  67. chris says

    Obama is gonna make a world without spiders.
    He is not just gonna work for the government, he’s not just gonna work for America, he is gonna work for me, you know I have a lot of laundry to do.
    I would have a baby for Barack Obama.
    Obama gives me a boner.
    He is the greatest giver. The most courageous lover.
    He’s a good guy.
    I love what he is, I love it, I love all of it.
    Obama is gonna be my sandwhich, the whole sandwhich.
    He inspires love and hope and he gives.

  68. nic says

    jimmyboyo and derrick,

    what say we go to the local tavern, listen to god-awful country music and have a drink? you guys pick your poison. life is too short for people to get overly embroiled in bullshit. we are not each others’ enemy. the repugs are the enemy.

  69. Joshua says

    Rudy….here’s a surprise for you…..the Republicans used to hope Hillary was going to be the Dem’s choice, but since Superdupr Tuesday have changed their minds. They now view Obama as the easiest to beat. The reasons are many, but mostly it turns out that Hillary is right, in the swing states and the big Democratic stronghold states she runs even with or ahead of McCain but Obam runs behind. A good example is Mo…..a very important swing state, Obama is 9% behind McCain there but Hillary is tied. Mass., which has only gone once since the 60″ for a Republican McCain and Obama are tied and Hillary is 11% ahead of McCain. Florida, Hillary and McCain are with in the margin of error but Obama loses to McCain by 11%. Hillary take Arkansa by 16% but Obama loses to McCain there by 17%.

    Ohio, Hillary is ahead of McCain there by 6% but Obama is now 4% behind him. But here’s some real shockers, the kind that could cause those Superdelgates to think hard….Obama loses New Jersey to McCain by 11%….Hillary wins it by 12%. New Jersey can’t remember the last time it went Rebupican. But the polls that got the pro’s talking are these….Bush lost California by 10%….Hillary wins by 8% and Obama only wins by 5%….at this stage of the game Obama and Hillary should be 12 to 15% ahead in Ca…..and in New York, Hillary is ahead by 12% but Obama is only 7% ahead, an unheard of number for a Democrat in NY.

    I don’t have a dog in this fight. But while Clinton can’t win the nomination outright at this point, neither can Obama, it’s going to the super delegates. Michigan and Florida will have to be allowed to count. Michigan will probably be split evenly since Clinton was the only one on the ballot, but Florida is going to be allowed to count as it turned out, which closes the popular vote margin between Clinton and Obama and leaves Obama only 87 delegates ahead. The Supers will have to decide which one can carry the big swing states, and if they go by that, Clinton will get the nomination. Obama won a lot of caucuses in states the Democrat’s couldn’t carry if they were the only name on the ballot, but Hillary has beat Obama in all of the major blue and swing states….NY, CA.,PA, OHIO, TX.,FL.,NJ.,….that shows that Obama can’t close the deal….for some reason, 4 of the 5 main core groups of Democratic voters just don’t vote for him. White males, women, Seniors, and Hispanics. He wins Intellectuals, the wealthy, students and under 40’s, black mn, and black women. The Democrats have to carry all of Clintons groups by big margins to win a General election. But once again, the exit polls showed that 6 in 10 Clinton voters said they cannot support Obama and 26% of Clinton voters just flat out said they will vote McCain if Obama is the nominee. If even half of those actually do it, McCain wins a landslide victory in November. He now polls 46% to 37% with Independents, he took the lead away from Obama (who only led by 4% back then) in early March and has kept it ever since. No Democrat can win who loses that many Independents The Hispanic vote is now McCain 45%, that 4% higher than Bush got.

    Don’t kid yourself jimmyboyo about McCains age or any of that crap. He’s a real. honest to God war hero, with a fantastic record in the Senate(especially for a Rep.) of being against corruption, pork barrel spending, and being for the enviroment, tough election laws, low taxes …..he’s no push over and compared to Obama, he looks like a winner.

  70. Jimmyboyo says

    Joshua “mccain voter”

    McCain did release all of his medical records in 2000, but not so this time around 8 years later and 8 yrs for an oldster means a ton more problems.

    Reported in the NYT last month. Go debate them

    Joshua ‘projecting” seeing lies in others because he himself lies a ton for McCain

    ———————————–

    NIC

    :-)

    SURE! I even know how to line dance and 2 step. LOL There is a really good story behind how this white boy who dislikes country music learned such

    :-)

  71. jmg says

    Older white gay men are generally a very racist lot who tend to identify with women more than men. They tend to be effeminate, which leads to them idolizing “strong” women. It is bizarre, but explains why they like Hillary so much. It’s their effeminate vexation mixed with racist tendancies.

    Posted by: Hezekial | Apr 23, 2008 12:52:08 PM

    This has to be the most hilarious post I have read in a long time. Were you high when you wrote it?

  72. Silverskreen says

    Boys! Boys! Boyssss!!
    I turn my head for a minute and you guys are having all the fun without me! Sheesh.

    Ok, where to begin…wait, Nic, did you say something about a bar and some drinks? ‘Cause reallly, that’s what caught my attention. Hehe.

  73. Leland Frances says

    I agree with you in many ways about Sen. Clinton’s campaign, Jimmy [unlike Rudy Retardo and his childish canard a la “she couldn’t even manager her marriage”], but my general election concern is that even if 100% of what you said is true, why is she still within some 2% of tying with Obama, only some 600,000 votes behind him out of nearly THIRTY MILLION cast so far? And with anywhere from half to as third as much money as he’s raised?

    Note, unless there’s a large group of Towleroadie undecided superdelegates we’re unaware of, this is merely for sake of discussion. If there were more primaries left; swing states; big states, she might succeed in converting enough super delegates to exercise their perogative and override the pledged delegate/vote margins. But from the top of my lighthouse in the middle of the Ocean of Irrelevancy, the nomination outcome seems yet inevitable. Nevertheless, the “virtual tie” makes one wonder. Racism is certainly playing SOME role, but it’s illogical to attribute to that the majority of the 14+ million votes she’s received.

    One key factor, which some ageist queens here like to mock, is that “Young Democrats [who tend to prefer Obama] made up only 12 percent of voters.. In comparison, fully 22 percent were age 65 and older. Clinton won more than six in 10 senior voters while winning a majority of all voters 40 and older.” – Politico

    Two other parts of the fascinating breakdown at

    politico.com/news/stories/0408/9812 stood out to me. The first very alarming:

    “Fewer than one in 10 voters said electability mattered most, a trend that has long been true in the primary as Democrats focus less on pragmatism than on personal identity.” And the second contradictory to what one sees here and elsewhere in the blogosphere:

    “About one in four Clinton supporters said they would back John McCain in the general election should Obama win, while fewer than one in five of Obama’s voters said they support McCain if Clinton should win.”

    Attention Class: Once again—it’s VITAL that a DEMOCRAT win—regardless of which one it is.

    The continued focus on the many and deep flaws of her campaign is but another way of praising his. That’s fair in a vacuum, but as Newsweek writer Joe Klein, no FOH, observed weeks ago, despite his disingenous disclaimers to the contrary, Obama’s campaign has been too much about the wonderfulness of the Obama campaign. It’s encouraging to read that, though he continues to tout some of its contents such as “new voters” its attracted, he apparently focused more in his speech last night on the Party winning and not just him.

    That is in his best interest—and ours.

  74. Jimmyboyo says

    LOL NIC

    A threesome dream ticket.

    Here I am all single for the moment and my mind goes beyond dream ticket to well…..you know (cue the porn music for a threesome)

    Silverskreen most definetly needs to come to.

  75. Jimmyboyo says

    Leland

    I would say because she is smart and capable that she has been able to overcome a lot of her campaign staff’s problems.

    :-)

    I can even understand the loyalty thing vs competence. We can all agree the repubs threw everything + the kitchen sink at the clintons so they developed a “Bunker mentality” which grabs onto loyal people and holds them close. In this case too close. Penn was such a F up

  76. Keith says

    The real return #, which you can see from the PA Dept of state here http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/
    is 54.6 to 45.4, which is 9.2 %. That is NOT double digits. It is 2 points lower than Hillary’s own internals showed. What happened to Hillary’s 20 point lead? That is the real story. She lost 10 points, showing the momentum is with Obama, not Hillary. Momentum means your #s go up, not down. So why do Hillary’s #s go down in every state as soon as Barack campaigns there?

    She squeaked out a bare majority of the electorate in a state which had every demographic factor in the world going for her, including the party machine behind her, with the aid of a (formerly) popular President.

    You’ve never heard the phrase “as PA goes, so goes the nation” for a good reason.

    Why can’t Obama close the deal? Ask the same question of Hillary. She’s further from closing the deal than he is, and falling further behind every minute.

    She complained about him outspending her. Well, why can’t she raise more money than he can? Especially when she is taking all the PAC money and lobbyist money there is. If she also refused to take PAC and lobbyist money she would have run out of money months ago. They’re probably the only thing keeping her going, because individuals do not like her, contrary to what her campaign spins.

    The big states Hillary has won are all reliably blue. ANY Democrat can win them. She brings nothing to the table. Obama makes states like Virginia and Missouri winnable for the first time in decades.

    She is not going to be the nominee. Barack is going to the next President.

  77. silverskreen says

    Nic,

    “Festive”…hahaha, love it!

    Jimmyboyo,

    LOL!! Cue, indeed! Too funny…a man after my own hard…err, heart. Sorry, lack of sleep and almost misspoke. 😉

  78. Leland Frances says

    Gee, Jimmy, I thought you’d experienced some of the herds of rude smokers that I did in Penn[sylvania] a couple of years ago. Cough cough…. And here’s my predictions of whom these famous Pittsburgians voted for:

    Brian: Hillary
    Justin: Obama
    Michael: Obama
    Ben: Hillary [Robert Gant actually campaigned for her at Images, 941 Saloon, Pittsburgh Eagle, et al., and, along with Chelsea & Gov. Rendell, at Philly’s Bump, Sisters, Tavern on Camac, & Woody’s]
    Emmett: Obama
    Ted: Hillary
    Lindsay: Obama
    Melanie: Hillary [Michelle Clunie campaigned with Gant above]
    and, of course,
    Debbie Novotny: Hillary [Sharon Gless was also a part of the Pittsburg gay pub get out the vote effort with Gant and Clunie]

  79. Joshua says

    24play….your right.
    Jimmyboyo…please accept my apologies for jumping the gun and calling you a liar. I thought McCain made them public last week and I was sure that he released a *summary or overview* back in January when Romney was doing the 8he’s to old* ad’s.
    Now I’m wondering why they haven’t been released. It’s public knowledge that he has had the skin cancer issues, so I don’t understand why they are keeping them back.

    As I have said in previous posts….when I comment on Obama or Clinton I don’t have a dog in that hunt. My family(my parents and brothers) are longtime friends of the McCains and except for his stand on DADT and gay marriage(he is for civil unions) I agree with most of his positions. I completely understand his reasons for not wanting to leave Iraq before it has a chance to make it on it’s own, I am against the war. I’m against ALL taking of life, war, death penalty or abortion.

  80. FunMe says

    Obama is going to be the next US President.

    sHillary can bow out now or embarass herself in the convention.

    Either way, the math is totally against her favor. She is a DINO (Democrat in Name Only) that should be outsted from the Democrat Party.

  81. NowItMatters says

    The media knows that Hillary cannot overtake Obama. However else they or Hillary is spinning it is BS.

    Obama will be the nominee. As for the many naysayers who believe he will lose against McCain, I think Dems will pull together and vote Obama. Simply put, PA and many other states with elderly majorities voted Hillary, but they won’t deny a fellow Democrat their vote in November.

    McCain, I believe, will prove an embarrassment for the Republicans as the campaign unfolds. He is inept, he forgets alot, he stammers and stutters – or is that Bush I am thinking about?

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