1. Rafael says

    I’m glad to see the Senator back.

    The FISA bill precedent hurt us. I don’t agree with the compromised view many, including Sen. Obama shares. I understand they see themselves vulnerable in this issue, but true courage and judgment entails risks. I hope Sen. Obama redeems himself in the near future. One day, with or without Sen. Obama, we will have our civil liberties back.

  2. Yaris says

    Nice job burying the lead Andy.

    Yes, Kennedy’s brief return to the Senate for an important vote is highly admirable and appreciated, but let’s not lose sight of the reason he was there.

    How’re ya all Obama fans feeling now, now that your chosen one voted for legislation to strip you (and the rest of us) of our civil liberties and right to privacy?

    Even his good friends Biden, Kerry, Dodd, Leahy and Reid voted against it. What happened to the promise made earlier this year to lead a filibuster of any such legislation?

    The frequency of his flip-flopping and backwalking is a threat to Kerry’s reputation! What’s next on his list of promises and positions he stated during the Primary that he will break or reverse from?

  3. Yaris says

    My bad, Kennedy was back at the Senate for the Medicare funding vote, not FISA. (Both very important issues.)

    At least Obama used his brain on the Medicare vote to restore funding for the health care of older Americans.

  4. michael says

    The REAL STORY is how Saint Barack helped to further strip what’s left of our civil liberties. I love how each day he further reveals his true intentions and agenda. Hopefully people are paying close attention.

    Meanwhile Hillary voted NO.

  5. Rafael says

    Hillary doesn’t have much to lose, or does she? While I’m completely opposed to this bill. I don’t buy the secrete agenda story. I further understand the principles that serve as the foundation for our democracy, and I’m confident that time is our best friend in moving away from Bush’s policies.

  6. Yaris says

    RAFAEL: This has nothing to do with Hillary. She’s not the presumptive nominee. However, she would have voted exactly the same way she did today (voting NO!) if she was the nominee. She has always placed civil liberties of Americans as one of the key items on her agenda to protect.

    MICHAEL: Yes, thanks for pointing out the REAL story. I have yet to see one major newspaper or news network zero in on this fact. Right now, they’re more concerned about Jesse Jackson. Civil liberties and citizen rights to privacy, and Medicare funding be damned. Obama’s balls they must preserve!

  7. Rafael says


    I know this is not about Sen. Clinton, I was just presenting the contrast of hers and Sen. Obama’s respective situations. If Sen Clinton was the presumptive nominee, she would do whatever it takes to win, we saw this in the primaries. Sen Obama is trying to survive the general elections. I’m not going to go on with this argument of the past, if you do, that is fine by me!

  8. says

    Well, well, Americas’ chickens have come to roost.
    First Americas’ favorite rape enabling, “oh yeah, there was a girl in the car”, alcoholic senator and our newest lying chicken together again!
    Oh happy day.
    But wait! There’s more to come! Evidently after his coronation, Mr. O is going to up the limit for faith based funding. My dear, you do know faith based funding don’t you? It’s a simply lovely plan that makes those horrid, misguided poor people listen to a sermon and pray before they’re allowed any gruel. Oh yes, these programs don’t have to let in any , um, homosexuals if they don’t want to.
    Well, at least he’s on our side with Gay Marriage. What’s that dear, oh. never mind.

  9. Rafael says

    thevegasstyleguy – Sir, you are misinformed. Religious organizations who receive federal founding, cannot discriminate against individuals. But yes, Sen Obama needs to get the message, we will not tolerate the breach of our civil liberties, and providing retroactive immunity to a crime is not acceptable.

  10. Banne says

    To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin, those who sacrifice their liberties for security deserve neither liberty nor security.

    This vote says nothing but that Obama only cares about winning. Sadly I think the timing is poor as half the Democratic Party didn’t support him in the primary and that half, me included, thinks he’s lost his damned mind. If you think our liberties take a backseat to his rise to the White House, you do not deserve a vote and he doesn’t deserve the Presidency.

    At this point, he will not be getting my vote in November.

  11. Rafael says

    thevegasstyleguy – My understanding is, that there will be provisions in Sen. Obama’s faith-charities-expansion plan, which intend to prevent discrimination, to what extent it is not yet clear. To be honest, I’m kind of pissed right now, and I’m rethinking my politics altogether.

  12. Jimmyboyo says

    Obama voted yes to the FISA bill which puts the power back in the hands of the FISA court to monitor the “wiretapping”. Unlike the current dictatorial free for all under bushco.

    Yes, the immunity part sucks sh@t.

    The question though is wether you would rather chase after the companies or place power back in the hands of the FISA court

    No immunity and it would never have passed thus alowing bushco to continue to do the run around on the FISA court. No immunity and the repubs would have seen to it never going to a vote at all thus allowing the current fuck up to continue under bushco

    Again; it sucks……but it isn’t what many are hyperbolicly bloviating (spell check) on about

    It also is important to note that one of our greatest presidents = FDR compromised and allowed the perpetrators of a coup aginst him and the US gov to go free with only fines as vs facing a firing squad. Bush’s own ancestor was one of the ring leaders. Multiple heads of buisness in america were behind the coup attempt that would turn the USA fascist modeled after Germany and Italy. The general that was approahed by the heads of biz turned informant and turned them in. FDR had to compromise and NOT deliver the full force of the law against them because what it would to biz and the economy.

    Not a perfect analogy, but again would you prefer chasing after the telecoms for decades (they will fight back in court with appeals) or get at least something that starts to put the power back into the FISA court and out of the hands of the executive branch (which they stole)??????????????????????????????


    Another very important vote occured yestrday. MEDICARE! Every single last senator showed up and voted EXCEPT Mccain.

    Mcshame didn’t even bother to show up to the vote on medicare. That is the main reason Kennedy showed up because funding Medicare is very dear to his heart. Obama showed up, every senator showed up to keep medicare going except mcshame. Medicare is the old retired folks health care for those who aren’t sure about the difference between medicare and medicaid

  13. Jimmyboyo says


    Do you uderstan that what Obama proposed for the “faith based” to recieve money is that they basicaly have to adhre to purely secular FED regs. basicaly become secular to evn getthe money.

    – no discrimination basd on sex, race, religion, or sexual orientation

    – provide help without proseltyzing

    many of them wll not qualify for the money, many will not wish to qalify = hire a gay black hindu, and those that do wil end being turned into SECULAR orgs

    These groups haven’t wokn up to the fact that Obama will be tripping their religous power if they go along and try to get the funds

  14. scientitian says

    I’m not going to defend Obama. However, I will say that McCain has a lot more up his sleeve to fuck this country up than Obama could ever dream of.
    I would imagine Hillary does not want you to waste votes on her this November, because she no doubt does not want John McCain in the White House. She is not the nominee, she will not win. If you truly do care about the difference between McCain and Obama, you’re throwing your vote away by dumping it in her lap. Pull your emotions out of this and think logically, people. You think Obama is evil incarnate? Fine. McCain eats evil incarnate for breakfast. Like it or not, one of them will win in November, and neither are Hillary.

  15. Andy in Denver says

    I work for the only major telco that did NOT give the call data to the feds (Qwest) so I’m pissed about the immunity. But get over it folks; Obama is the best bet for 2008, whining at this point isn’t going to make much difference.

  16. anon says

    I reiterate that in further service to his state and country, as opposed to his own ego, and facing a clearly fatal illness with no hope of recovery, Kennedy should step down from office rather than essentially leave his state unrepresented. His condition will rapidly lead to mental impairment. My suspicion is that he wished to die in office in order to lie in state in the Senate like his brother. Did RFK also lie in state? That would be three for three.

  17. says

    I think the “get over it” mentality of a lot of folks here is rather sad. Is that what we’ve come to expect of our Democratic party? He’s good enough or he’ll pick experienced people to “guide” him. Isn’t that how the repugs stuck us with Bush?

    I have a question. No hate please, just real noninvective filled thoughtful responses.

    I’m a Hillary pledged delegate. There seems to be a controversy re: whether or not HRCs’ name should be placed in nomination at the convention. Some (O supporters) say it’ll only open old wounds and help the other side. Others say it’s important not to ignore the , basically, half of the party who voted for her. I need to make a decision and son how I feel. Help! Personally, I want her name up there. Any opinions? Please, no name calling because I WILL take off my earrings and get me some vaseline if it gets ugly! LOL!

  18. sugarrhill says

    “Get Over It” mentality is not sad it’s practical. Ask yourself, do I really want another Republican running the White House? Would it benefit me in any way? As a former Hillary supporter and current Obama supporter, I understand what is at stake in this next presidential election. If you don’t think there is any difference between Obama and Bush/McCain then I can’t even begin to comprehend how you could ever have been a Clinton supporter.

    Unfortunately, a few select Clinton supporters feel that their interests are more important than the party as a whole. And despite Clinton and Obama being virtually identical on all issues important to Democrats, they feel entitled to make everyone in the party suffer because their prefered candidate didn’t win the nomination. That attitude is selfish and counterproductive. If anything I hope it causes apathetic Americans to become more involved in the Democratic process. But most likely it’ll just give them carte blanche to bitch and moan.

    TheVegasStyleGuy, please ask yourself what exactly would be accomplished by you placing a nomination in Clinton’s name at the convention? Consider that she herself has endorsed Obama and is campaigning for him. Consider that she herself wants our Democratic nominee to win the White House. Consider that she and many of her former staff members are working with the Obama camp to make sure the issues she was most passionate and detailed about make it onto the platform. And if you still think you should do what you’re contemplating then ask yourself what conclusion would finally resolve all your issues about this past primary season. If your answer is Clinton as the nominee or Clinton 2012; then you’re hopeless.

  19. says

    you were doing really well until you decided to throw in that any way of thinking other than one you presribed was “hopeless”. I am , however, mulling over what you had to say. Anyone else? Please, without the perjoratives. I want to do what’s right. I do think that 18million people shouldn’t be ignored. Is there a solution I can suggest at the convention? This is my first time on this merry go round, just asking for opinions.

  20. sugarrhill says


    I wrote “hopeless” because there is no benefit to beating a dead horse. Obama is our presumptive nominee. 18 Million people weren’t ignored. They made their voice heard. I don’t feel silenced having voted for Clinton in CA. She may have lost the nomination, but I don’t feel slighted. I made my preference known. But it’s the nature of the democratic process. My preferred candidate didn’t win the nomination, fair and sqaure. And despite that, I will continue to support my party of choice because I know they have my best interests at heart. The problem I see with your line of thinking is that it’s not productive especially when both camps have rallied together to win the White House. By your reasoning even the millions of people who voted for Edwards and the other candidates have been ignored too, because their candidate didn’t win the nomination. and that’s just false. It’s called a race for reason. There will always be one victor. It wasn’t Clinton, deal with it.

  21. says

    Btw, sugarhill, I didnt really care for you referring to me as a “repug troll” on another post re: this situation. So, I’ll repost my response to you here.

    Let’s go toe to toe on Democratic credentials. I have NEVER VOTED FOR A REPUBLICAN. I am an elected Democratic delegate. I am a precinct captain for my district. I have given many hours of my personal time to the party. I have argued against “Repug” policies.I volunteer for every gay event I can in this city.

    Now, your turn. What have you done for me lately?

    I think Jessie Jackson is a poverty pimp who uses race as a bargaining chip. I think Obama is a fraud or just like every pol he said he wasn’t like. I could have respected him but he claimed to be different. It’s like a boyfriend who says he wants a commited 1 on 1 LTR and then cruises manhunt.

    Maybe you should take a look at the great fascist regimes and see what they all have in common.

    A lack of free thought/speech.

    And just because i don’t care for Obama doesn’t mean I have any intention of working against him. I want to know if making the point of having Hillarys’ votes counted is going to hurt him and why? I think it will piss off more of her supporters to not have them counted and leave them truly “bitter”.

    I have never been so pissed re: a blog posting. You have no idea of what America is about if someone speaking their opinion is considered a “troll” or a spy or a traitor. Do you honestly think that Crispus Attucks, Abraham Lincoln, Patrick Henry, MLK jr, WW2 troops, I could go on, died for you to suppress ideas different from your own? You actually sound like a “repug troll” to me. After all, if you don’t agree with Der Fuhrer Bush you must be a Communist, Gypsy, Jew, FreeMason, homosexual…….

  22. sugarrhill says


    I apologize for calling you a “repug troll”, especially if you are the active Democrat you claim. But please understand my rationale. A troll is someone that purposely stirs up shit but adds nothing to the debate. And I find it odd that you are posting essentially borderline Republican talking points on gay website with a clear preference toward electing a Democratic nominee to the presidential office, especially when those talking points aren’t factually or rationally based. And your name calling didn’t help me think otherwise, before that I just categorized you as a dissatisfied Clinton supporter that could be reasoned with.

    And how is making the point of having Hillarys’ votes counted during the convention not working against Obama? What good would that actually do? They are already working together and forging a united front. Her ideas/platforms aren’t being dismissed or discounted. She has a role in the campaign. Even if you discount that, they hold virtually the same position on most issues important to Democrats. And why should Clinton be the only failed candidate to have her votes counted? Again there are more important issues at stake in this election than hurt feelings. Suck it up.

    By the way, I never called you a spy or a traitor. I do think you’re an idiot though. It’s my opinion. And opinions are like assholes, everyone has them. If you don’t like it, exercise your freedom of choice and avoid my posts. But don’t think you can’t be called out on your blatantly emotional blathering.

  23. says

    Wow, you truly just proved everything I said. I noticed a lot of people posting here with views that don’t match yours. Btw, I don’t”claim” I am. No, I’m not an idiot nor do I think you are. I do , however, think it’s not worth going forward with you if you have no problem with calling people who don’t agree with you such. Btw, damn right i’m emotional. Our future is at stake. Blathering? i won’t even address that. I’m sorry, one more bit of blathering, I don’t see anywhere here on the worlds best and smartest gay web site there is anything saying only one way of thinking is allowed. Au contraire. Embrace my friend, our differences and keep the “Idiot and troll comments” in your dark place.

    As Mr Mclaughlin says, “BYE BYE”.

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