Comments

  1. G says

    Yup, O’Reilly is trying to start some sh*t between gays and blacks. Hope both sides don’t fall for it. And since it’s on FOX you can bet Sean Hannity will start his harping soon.

  2. Get Jazz says

    Whats even sadder about this is that from what Ive been reading on this blog,some gay people are going against blacks.I happen to be black/puerto rican AND GAY and the kind of bitterness Im seeing in some white gay men is utterly disgusting.YOU CANNOT blame one race for homophobia,this shit is EVERYWHERE.Im getting pissed with some other gays because they insist on believeing that the only gay people out there are White.What about blatinos,blacks,latinos,asians,italians,and jewish gay men.What I see is that its much easier for these guys to blame someone else other than themselves because they dont wanna take responsibility for the fact that they failed us all.NOT BLACK PEOPLE.If you wanna go down the “pointing finger” road blame all anti-gay str8 people,there are many many many out there and they are NOT only black.Acting as if you dont care about the numbers and prefer to blame all black people for not getting our civil rights just proves that some white Homos are just as racist as the white trash in this country.Ive seen it through out the entire election and Im still seeing,reading,and hearing it now.I have heard the gay community in California is segregated and thats fucking disgusting.Im so glad I live in New York City.

  3. G says

    Yup, O’Reilly is trying to start some sh*t between gays and blacks. Hope both sides don’t fall for it. And since it’s on FOX you can bet Sean Hannity will start his harping soon.

  4. Get Jazz says

    P.S. All Im asking here,is for people to chill out with the racist comments.As I said in another blog post in the gay community no matter if we are white,black,blatino,latino,biracial,asian,jewish,
    christian,short,tall,skinny,fat,male or female we are all gay and we are all in this together,stop the finger pointing and lets get to work.

  5. yeahisaidit says

    …QUEEN please STFU…you may be gay but your little sideways comment is NOT funny to me…don’t worry, your poor lil’ butt would not get kicked at the black church ‘cuz nobody would be there…they would have smelled your ASS coming…you stink!

  6. Scott says

    First, there will be no targeting the AA community directly in these protests, just the churches who encouraged their members to join in on the campaign supporting Prop 8. (most specifically the MORMAN Church)Yes, it is true, the gay community has work to do with the AA community, but there are so many other factors that contributed to the passing of Prop 8, including the gay community itself. It is time we (the gay community) take a step back and re-evaluate what just happened. I believe the protesting is a great first step, but there is so much more work to be done and blaming any of it on the AA community is incorrect. Bill O should be ashamed of himself for trying to get the two communities riled up toward one another. I hope Keith O sees this and rips him to shreads tonight on Countdown.

  7. says

    Exactly the point I was attempting to make on another thread before I saw this one. (The Colbert Report had a more palatable and funny take on the same thing.) The right wing would love nothing better than to turn this into gay vs. black distraction, so by continuing this inflamed racial rhetoric (it’s been a week now) instead of moving on, we’re basically doing exactly what the Bill O’s of the world want us to do. Maybe he’ll finally be the one to make us lay off the racial finger pointing. Cause who really wants to be acting as a Bill O missionary?

  8. says

    The Mormon opposition to marriage goes back even farther than 1997: when Hawaii became the first state to rule that it was unconstitutional to deny marriage to same sex couples on the basis of gender, it was the Mormons who overwhelmingly funded the opposition that led to the constitutional amendment in that state.

    1993 — they’ve been at it 15 years!

  9. ML says

    For all of CA’s progressive politics, it remains very segregated. The racism that this has brought out in CA’s gay community is disgusting and counter productive. You bet the far right is loving it and stocking up on video footage to use against us in the next battle.

  10. johnnosahon says

    SCOTT please, there were people calling the AAs the N-word in the crowd.

    people are BLAMING the blacks because it is easy to do. the political analysts are making up numbers. and how come there was ONLY one poll done (CNN), i have never seen any other situation where only ONE poll is used for analysis.

    also, why are minority gays and lesbian not represented in the gay community? why is it that ALMOST all the ads used featured ONLY white people? where was the outreach to the minority groups. the only ad that featured a black person was the SAMUEL L. Jackson ad and he was even in it.

    forget that only 6% of the population in california are blacks, and MOST old, religious people voted for it, and forget almost ALL republicans voted for it.

    blame the blacks and any other minority group.

    since we are talking about the analysis of ONLY one poll, i also also in the CNN poll than ONLY 50% of voters in san Fransico voted. if 100% had voted the proposition could have failed, that is my assumption, since everybody is making one these days.

  11. Paul C says

    The people who voted are all adults and made their own decisions. Blaming the people who funded ads sounds an awful lot like right-wingers blaming movies and hip-hop music for violence and promiscuity.

    If Prop 8 had failed, would you feel it right for religious fanatics to aggressively go after a small group of individuals who provided funding to defeat it? Or would you say that the people had voted and that this was what American citizens wanted, so those who were unhappy with the result should get over it?

    No law that exists solely to take away other people’s rights should be allowed to stand, so this should be defeated in the Supreme Court, not through the use of the same bullying tactics that homophobes have used against us for years.

  12. says

    We should remember that the very first legal gay marriage between two men in the USA was between David Wilson and Robert Compton, a bi-racial couple.

    The reason Prop 8 passed was because of religion crossing the line between church and state by preaching politics through the pulpit….not racism.

  13. says

    P.S. No surprise that Bill and the guest he allows to speak (while typically talking over the one who makes sense) are wrong on the main things. The point of protesting religious institutions is not to attack their beliefs, it is to attack them for trying to INFLICT their beliefs on our lives. (If they weren’t trying to manipulate our lives with their beliefs, we’d have no reason to protest.) Targeting the Mormon Church instead of “black churches” is because that’s where the money and power is, stupid. What he’s labeling “PC” is, in reality, an appropriate protest strategy that doesn’t suit his political inclinations. And, finally, blacks were not the deciding factor any more that white Republicans were. This cherry-picking of who put 8 over the top is so transparently bogus, yet people buy it.

  14. the queen says

    Paul C, you’re entire post is correct — you are one of the sole voices of reason here… bullying tactics will backfire for sure for it will only strengthen the opposition’s resolve and faith that they are right…

    …. and yeahisaidit, i thank you dahling, people just may deduce from your post what i was trying to say and the reason i was censored by andy… you know i speak the truth… just some people can’t deal with it…

  15. Nick says

    I don’t think I could EVER agree with someone who is a “culture warrior”

    but Margaret Hoover keeps trying to keep the facts straight, but she won’t agree with O’Rilley because he “isn’t right” and like she said “they are protesting everyone who voted against them”.

    And WTF does it make sense to not protest Churches because they are preaching, BUT we should be protesting Black churches…oxymoron.

    Thank you Margaret Hoover for being someone who wants the facts out there, I’m sorry you’ll probably be fired from Fox News now. I can only hope that you get a job at a real news channel.

  16. Nick says

    Okay…
    So Margaret Hoover, though a bit skewed in her “facts” is at least trying to keep things civil. I feel that she’s shooting Bill down for his transparent tactic.

    We are protesting not those who voted for Prop 8, but those who funded and made hateful biased commercials. Churches are included in that sorry to say.

    But it also doesn’t help that “No on Prop 8″ didn’t have a focus in the “persons of color” communites.
    It’s nice that we are becoming unified now, but it would’ve been nice if it happened before the election…the outcome might have been different.

    Also, protesting is not a bullying tactic. But telling people your children will be forced to do something they might be opposed to…THAT is bullying.

  17. banjiboi says

    From Beezo Blue’s blog:

    “I’ve always had a bone to pick with white gays who are always eager to equate the Gay Rights Movement’s struggles with those of the Civil Rights Movement. I believe that this is fundamentally wrong for obvious reasons. One is that both movements do, and have indeed fought for civil rights, and have heroes who have fought for us and who have, in some instances, made the ultimate sacrifices in order to be heard. The second is that race and sexuality are two very different identifiers, though. They are both states of being, but one has the decision and ability to repress and downplay one’s sexuality. Not so with race. You can’t cover your skin before you walk into a job interview, apply for housing, or even catch a cab.That said, white gays are able to enjoy all of the advantages of the majority in this society, in terms of income levels, housing and jobs, whereas blacks cannot. It’s just that simple. And just as blacks could be accused of homophobia and in some instances, racism, so can the white gay community.

    Take a look at a typical gay white enclave in any major city. Tell me what you see. Most likely you’ll see an affluent strip or neighborhood filled with cafes, restaurants, lounges and clubs and gyms which cater to mostly white patrons. Not that people of color are not welcome, well, sort of. But there is definitely a difference between NY’s Chelsea and the black and Latino communties of Upper Manhattan and the outer boroughs of New York City, for instance. While the minority community does include people who enjoy a certian level of economic success, and there are definitely areas where whites are not particularly welcomed, but that would most likely pertain the diversity of the areas as whole – and not a specific gay area. I believe that the main distinction between the two is privilege and access to education and means. And I wonder how many trust fund babies were present at those protests? Yes, we could all make it if we try, but even with our new President, things are not going to change right away for some of us. Though we can expect some change, it won’t happen overnight, and the same people with the same attitudes, political positions and cultural perceptions will still be responsible and in charge of our police departments, corporations, prisons, real estate rental offices, etc. The same can also be said about gay marriage. The vast majority of this country is comprised of caucasians with strong religious values, no? Who are you really fighting against? Yourselves? Please choose your adversaries wisely.

    Look, I’m all for the inclusion of all cultures into the fabric that makes up our society at large. That means equal rights for African Americans, gays, lesbians, bisexuals, transgenders, and the rights of dogs, cats, bunnies and gophers for that matter, but please stop it with the racist and homophobic bullshit against other cultures while claiming to want the same respect and rights for your own. It’s counterproductive, to say the least.

    And take a good look in the morror, while you’re at it.”

    ’nuff said.

  18. Matt says

    This is exactly why we need the fairness doctrine. It will take tools like O’Reilly off the air. Yeah it will probably limit free speech but i’m willing to give up some free speech to stop hate speech.

  19. TheCitizen says

    For the love of god! COLOR IS THE FUTURE. Will the gay community make the same mistake Republicans are making by not visibly and loudly reaching out to communities of color thereby ensuring the death of their agenda?

  20. banjiboi says

    @ Cassius

    That was VERY mature. The petulant and pettiness of your remarks have revealed the very hypocrisy you claim to abhor. Not to mention your own reliance on “statistical sophisty”.

    Please.

    Either look more deeply at different shades and nuances of this issue or, as your last statement seems to imply, take your toys and leave the sandbox.

  21. Alex says

    Cassius,

    I think what I find personally offensive about your rhetoric is that I know plenty of AA’s who are very pro-gay. I also know AA’s who ARE gay. I can’t stand by and listen to someone label all AA’s homophobic.

    The real issue here (and see Banjiboi’s post above) is class, access to education and privilege . . . and religious extremism. I think the religious aspect is probably the biggest culprit in all of this . . . and guess what? Religion knows no race. I think a systematic protest of anti-gay churches (white, black, polkadotted) is appropriate here. But bitching and moaning about the blacks in general (and not ALL of them go to Church . . . just like not all gays love Cher) is not helpful.

  22. Jeffrey says

    Myself and most of the people that I know are not blaming the AA community for the passing of Prop 8. We certainly don’t blame anyone who voted against the measure, that would be absurd. But we are appalled that blacks, (of all people!)would vote in such numbers to strip civil rights from another group. There is no excuse for people who have suffered oppression in the exact same way as us to not have empathy for our cause as LGBT Americans. To simply rob me of my rights by checking a box! The same is true of the Mormons for that matter, but I don’t believe they have suffered nearly as much from bigotry and hatred as AA’s have. I would expect the black experiance with this issue would trump religious beliefs.
    People are claiming that the NO on 8 campaign didn’t do enough outreach to the AA community. But WHY on EARTH should they have to???? If ANY person from ANY minority group doesn’t get that this is the same struggle that they have gone through, and CONTINUE to go through, SHAME on them.
    We know that Black voters were not soley responsible for this horrible result and there were many black voters on our side. But we are sickened that they played any part at all in this bigotry.
    I guess some protesters have have been saying horrible racist things, which should be soundly CONDEMNED–there is no place for that–but it is also impossible to control the spoken words of every single protester. There are always a small handful of wackos at these things. I have participated in 3 protest rallys/marches in the LA area for a total of 15 hours and I have not seen or heard any racist remarks at all. That doesn’t mean they haven’t occured, but I think these are VERY isolated incidents and do NOT represent the mind set of the group as a whole one bit. If we do hear anything like that we will shut that person down. We are all marching together side by side, people of all different backgrounds, and it is a wonderful thing.

  23. banjiboi says

    While I’m at it, what about those of us who are gay, black AND white, who simply are not as passionate about marriage, gay or no, to begin with?

    Where was the outreach to gay minorities? I recently read a piece about Prop 8 organizers staging awareness campaigns in Fan Francisco’s Castro district, and next to no campaigning in the black gay areas of Oakland. This is a mistake that the gay community seems to repeat over and over again. It is simply assumed that we SHOULD be aware and SHOULD vote in favor ACCORDINGLY. But only until a conscious effort is made by the community as whole to ACTIVELY include all voices will things change.

    THE KEY IS OUTREACH. To black churches. To other segments of our community. And perhaps, just maybe, simply call it MARRITAL RIGHTS FOR ALL, exlcuding other species, of course. Period.

    Talk about oblivious.

  24. noah says

    Argh! Look, this is divide and conquer politics. People why be so stupid about this? The Right-wing has used the initiative process against people of color just as effectively against gays!

    Throughout America, the Right has sponsored so-called “Civil Rights Initiatives” that do nothing but kill Affirmative Action programs based on gender and race. California passed one. Michigan passed one and a ban on any kind of same sex unions.

    Folks, some of us are also missing the point about how initiatives allow for mob rule and oppression of minorities. Do you think this will end marriage? Hell no! It’s about pushing GLBT Americans into the closet, stripping us of all hard one rights.

    O’Reilly is a part of the Right-wing hate machine. He wants to drive a wedge. That’s how Republicans have been successful in politics for years.

    Step back and look at the election. Look at all of the racist and homophobic stuff thrown at Obama by McCain and the GOP attack forces. They sought to divide and conquer.

    Don’t let scumbags like the Queen of Douchebaggery deceive you. When is the last time you ever heard of anyone walking into an African-American church and getting his/her “ass kicked”?

    Uh, the most famous references about people suffering violence in “black churches” are black people like the four little girl murdered in a fire-bombing.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4_Little_Girls

    Where was the Queen’s concern about gay rights when for months the idiot was cheering John McCain and “La Palin” even though McCain supported Prop 8 and Palin called for a federal amendment banning any kind of gay unions?

    “The Queen” is just another (racist) Republican troll who wants to play games.

    Finally, I suggest strongly that people consider that we have to fight for FEDERAL protections against discrimination also! There are ZERO federal laws that prevent discrimination based on sexual orientation!

  25. John in CA says

    Not all African Americans are homophobic. So, lets get that out of the way right now. 30-35% of blacks voted against Prop. 8, even if you believe the same pre-election and exit polls the racists here are touting as “gospel.”

    Not all Mormons are homophobic either. Although there’s no polling data available, we know it wasn’t 100% for Prop. 8 because no demographic ever votes totally in lockstep.

    However, the high percentage of anti-gay votes from these demographic groups, as well as the numerous donations to “Yes on 8,” does raise serious concerns about the Mormon and African-American communities. I happen to believe the homophobia comes mainly from the churches. But that’s the serious discussion we should be having, not this immature “race war” nonsense. I know many white men are angry right now, but it is never acceptable to throw the N-word around folks.

  26. noah says

    P.S.

    Meant “hard won.” Sorry about the typos. :-/

    P.P.S.

    Please don’t lose focus of getting your representatives and senators aware about ENDA and other gay civil rights laws. Federal law trumps state law!

  27. says

    @ BANJIBOY

    I have a big problem with your argument on the Civil Rights issue. Just because a gay white person (or any gay person) might be able to hide their gayness, doesn’t make it so different from the AA situation.

    1. Not every gay person can hide their gayness
    2. Some who identify as AA can “pass” as white or PR or Native if they wish
    3. NO ONE should feel that they should have to hide their identity, whether that’s AA, gay, trans, Wiccan, etc. Hiding one’s ID is unhealthy physically and psychologically and becomes a simple human rights issue.

    And just like when I compare my marriage to that of heterosexual friends, when I compare the struggle for civil rights with those of AA friends, I find little difference. YES, there are some differences, but mostly it’s the same: EQUALITY BEFORE THE LAW.

    Social equality is a separate issue and here gay white men are in a mostly better position than African Americans. Does that mean that gay white men should stop fighting for social equality? No. I shouldn’t, as a gay white man, have to worry about mentioning my husband when I’m talking with clients, but I do. I have been physically and verbally attacked on the street for being gay, or being white, or both. Social stigma and social attacks are heinous no matter what the reason.

    @ Jasmyn Cannick (DAVID’s URL): I usually like Cannick’s writings but she makes a grave mistake in her argument. She assumes that the fight for marriage is the ONLY fight amongst white gay people (yes, the Gay Power Base). It’s not. Just read the literature from Lambda Legal and other organizations (not HRC or GLAAD). Or note how many gays have been working hard to elect Obama.

  28. banjiboi says

    Jeffery,

    I repeat, while the forms of oppression visited upon blacks and gays are appalling, to say the least, they are NOT THE SAME. And in this country, they will most likely NEVER be viewed the same, especially amongst blacks and racial minorities as a whole.

    Do not get confused about this. Educate yourself.

  29. TheCitizen says

    As much as its nice to know that the gay community worked hard to ensure Obama’s victory, I find it insulting when non-black homosexuals suggest that they supported Obama because of his race and his race only, thus excusing them of any sort of racism they may harbor or promote or the apathy and ignorace they have of black people as well as gay black people. Its insulting.

    Truly. Its EXTREMELY insulting.

  30. Brandon says

    I have a few thoughts. One, I don’t EVEN think the exit poll was accurate. According to the poll, 75% of black women voted for Prop 8. If African Americans voted 70% for Prop 8, that means that black men HAD to vote 63% percent for Prop 8. In every other group, women were less opposed to gay marriage. So, black men are more liberal about gays getting married than black women by 12 points? That’s crazy.

    Two, the field poll on October 31, 2008 had African Americans split 49% to 43% in favor of Prop 8. While the poll didn’t get all the numbers right, the percentages were somewhat close to the CNN exit poll– except with respect to African Americans. (I think it is entirely possible that you get to 70% among older black voters– but not among black people overall.)

    Three, according to the Field poll Obama voters were against Prop 8 21% to 73%. Does anyone doubt that African Americans were hard core Obama supporters? I’m not saying that black people were against Prop 8, but to be so rabidly for it? It seems something is has got to be wrong with the CNN poll.

    Four, 74% of African American voters support adding sexual orientation to hate crimes. (That’s the SAME percentage as whites and higher than Hispanics.) And, 61% of African Americans favor adding sexual orientation and gender to the protected classes under federal civil rights law. That is HIGHER than whites (58%) and Hispanics (56%). (Cassius, did you notice THOSE statistics?)

    So how did the story become: it’s black people’s fault. How, despite the two polls I cited in my prior paragraph, that have been cited by HRC, did an entire community become labeled as prejudiced. How was it possible that no one questioned the results of the CNN poll?

    Yes people are angry. I understand that. But, it’s hard to see part of the reaction as bias. We cannot talk about issues involving black people without making assumptions. I’ve read so many posts of people talking about what goes on in black churches who undoubtedly have never been to a black church. We cannot have a dialogue without attributing something said by one black person to every black person. I don’t know any white person that wants to be linked to bigots like David Duke or the Fred Phelps. But, we don’t apply the same standard to black people. That’s bias.

    We expect that black people see being anti-gay marriage as discrimination and hold them to a higher standard. How many gay people had no issues with jettisoning protections for transexuals from ENDA? Were these gay men bigots? It is possible that supporting a non-trans inclusive ENDA meant you hated trans people? Why didn’t gays understand that as discrimination. Oh, and what about the gay men hating on the sissies among us. Gay people are in a liberation struggle, but yet the community discriminates against feminine guys all the time. That seems incredibly hypocritical. What I like about being gay is that I can play sports, and I do, but STILL sing show tunes if I want. I don’t have to conform to gender stereotypes. But this sort of bias regarding gender affect still occurs unchecked among gay people.

    Mormons supported Prop 8–DESPITE the discrimination they faced. Why don’t we ask how they could support the discrimination of Prop 8? Japanese Americans/Asians were placed in internment camps, but the CNN poll says that 49% of Asians voted FOR Prop 8. That’s a lot of people that “should” know better.

    I don’t have any issue with engaging and confronting bias and bigotry WHEREVER it exists. But, I do have an issue with trying to collectively hold black people to a different standard to which many gay people hold themselves and to which many gay people refuse to hold other groups that have faced discrimination. To me, this is pretty clear evidence of bias.

    Last but not least Andy, while Bill O’Reilly may try to start trouble between blacks and gays the damage was done LONG before Bill O’Reilly. I think black gay people, many of whom already feel unwelcome by the gay community, are pretty distraught. I KNOW I am. I just hope that this rift can be bridged BEFORE the next battle.

  31. banjiboi says

    @ David

    I think you missed my point. It was about sex and race. Maybe not all white gays can hide their sexual identity, but let’s keep it real, they have the OPTION to do so, if they so CHOOSE. I’m simply stating the obvious that caucasians FAR outnuber people of color in this country, and in our community. And can, by and large enjoy many of the same advantages of the majority of our society which people of color cannot. It is just another factor, albeit a large one, in this particular matter.

    The Black Civil Rights Movement has paved the way for the Gay Civil Rights Movement, yes, but that’s where the similarities end. Please dig deeper and take a look at what’s going on around you. Talk to and read other sources, particularly those of the gay minority community and you’d be surprised at what you will learn.

  32. banjiboi says

    @ BRANDON

    I, too, am perplexed at the assumption that this issue is just now being instigated by some right-wing idiot blowhard, when it’s been going on right under our noses ALL ALONG.

    Yes, folks, meet the ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM.

  33. Kyle Michel Sullivan says

    Something to keep in mind is, what O’Reilly and the scum like him are doing has been going on since the beginning of time and suits the goals of their masters perfectly. For example — back at the beginning of the 19th Century in Belfast and Derry, the centers of Irish industry at the time, Catholic and Protestant workers banded together to try and improve wages and working conditions. For a few years they were quite successful, but then the gentry and the government began stoking the idea that Catholics were out to take jobs and homes away from hard-working Protestants and force them all to swear allegiance to the Pope. There was already a strong anti-Catholic feeling and innate sense of victim-hood amongst most of the Protestant population, so that quickly swelled to the vicious discrimination against and outright murder of “Papists” that’s lasted nearly 200 years. And who came out on top? The rich and the government. O’Reilly’s just following a proven path — make people hate each other and you can get away with anything.

  34. bullsh^t says

    How does the 13th Amendment (freeing slaves) and the 14th Amendment (citizenship for slaves) relate to Prop 8? The African-American community is protected by US laws but the gay community is not.

  35. MCnNYC says

    OK ANDY the only “myth” that the article you posted by Nick Silver on the PropNo breakdown is in reference to the surge of new Obama supporters and that has not been talked about much.
    It does NOT refute that 70% of the African American CA voters voted against gay marriage.

    It looks at new voters in the Latino and African American community.

    Your own post http://www.towleroad.com/2008/11/officials-13000.html
    in which Roland Martin and Hilary Rosen of CNN discusses the disgusting robocalls that went out to the African American community in CA in which Barrack Obama’s own VOICE was used by the YES bigots to say “I believe marriage is between a man and a woman”
    And the Obama campaign KNEW about and “made a decision not to let the last four days of the campaign be about this…”

    THEY KNEW….it seems even Ms. Rosen KNEW and she’s on our side.

    What did the campaign think if they said STOP THIS CA would not have elected Obama?

  36. Brandon says

    Banjiboi: thanks for your response to my post. However, as I said in my post, I will disagree with anyone when I think appropriate. Unfortunately, right now there is no federal anti-discrimination protection on the basis of sexual orientation in public accommodations or employment. There are several states and localities that have statutes. Perhaps, you were just thinking about California. Cali has a very broad anti-discrimination protections for gays and lesbians in employment, public accommodations, and I think some other areas. (I don’t know the statutes off the top of my head.)

  37. Jason says

    BS: The 14th Amendment has clauses that deal not only with equal Protection, but also due process. Under federal constitutional jurisprudence, marriage is considered a fundamental right under the due process clause. See Loving v. Virginia (case outlawing prohibitions on interracial marriages). Although it’s never been litigated in the Supreme Court, there is a pretty powerful argument that same sex marriage should be afforded constitutional protection pursuant to the 14th Amendment.

  38. Chris says

    This all comes down to it just being easier to demonize blacks. Tools like Bill O’Reily would love to see gays turn against blacks rather than the white Christian/Mormon majority that truly decides EVERYTHING in this country. And by everything I mean EVERY-MOTHERFUCKING-LITTLE-THING-YOU-CAN-THINK-OF.

    Do you think we’d have had a chance in hell for Obama to be elected President if it weren’t for a large percentage of white voters supporting him? Absolutely not. Minorities alone cannot steer the ship to port. Same goes for Prop. 8.
    Bill O’Reily’s putrid assessment that blacks were the “deciding factor” is too implausible for words. How many blacks even live in California?? They’re completely dwarfed by whites as they are virtually everywhere in America. Hell, there are probably more white gay men in Cali. than all the black people put together. There are more Latinos as well. It is impossible for blacks to have been the deciding factor in Prop. 8’s passing.

    And this lame-brain idea that blacks aren’t Bible thumping homophobes just like white Christians and Mormons merely proves that many people aren’t familiar with the black community at all! Many blacks are more conservatives than whites, so it’s no wonder they voted at such a high percentage to ban gay marriage. Even so, however, black homophobia simply cannot eclipse white homophobia when it comes to sheer numbers.

    Bill O’Reily needs to be pulled off of TV. This man is very representative of what’s wrong with this country. His claims that his show is a “no spin zone” is one of greatest lies ever told in America. How this vile creature is permitted to verbally defecate for millions to hear each night is beyond me.

  39. banjiboi says

    To Brandon who said:

    “I don’t have any issue with engaging and confronting bias and bigotry WHEREVER it exists. But, I do have an issue with trying to collectively hold black people to a different standard to which many gay people hold themselves and to which many gay people refuse to hold other groups that have faced discrimination. To me, this is pretty clear evidence of bias.

    Last but not least Andy, while Bill O’Reilly may try to start trouble between blacks and gays the damage was done LONG before Bill O’Reilly. I think black gay people, many of whom already feel unwelcome by the gay community, are pretty distraught. I KNOW I am. I just hope that this rift can be bridged BEFORE the next battle.”

    No, thank YOU. I hope my comment was taken in agreement. :-)

  40. JTlvr says

    BANJIBOI and BRANDON: You’ve said so eloquently what I’ve been warning some white gay men recently. They, and many of the commenters here, are angry (and rightfully so). But they have let their anger get the best of them and, using unscientific polls and skewed stats, they’re justifying their own underlying racism.

    The big elephant in the room has always been racism in this country. And yes, that racism pervades the gay community. The GOP is now exploiting that divide for their own gains.

    I think many white gay men claim to understand bigotry and marginalization, which they do to an extent, yet they fail to comprehend the experience of gays of color. To understand the Black gay experience, you have to know the Black experience, and I’m not sure how many white men (white gay men included), are interested.

    I find it ironic that a community so welcoming, accepting and connected by shared experiences of marginalization, socializes along racial lines. We have white, Latin, Black, Asian gay bars and clubs. Don’t tell me it just because of music and style. It’s largely because no one understands our experience better than our own kind. We are comfortable in that mentality and socialize accordingly.

    All this to say, we need to organize ourselves and focus on the unconstitutionality of Prop 8, not the religious disagreements.

    We need to better examine the the roles race and class play into this movement and involved people from all levels and colors in it, and most importantly, stop the angry, racial charged rhetoric. It’s ugly, it’s not going to win us any further support, and it only causes to alienate your lesbian and gay sisters and brothers of color… like me.

  41. JeffRob says

    What can not be allowed to continue is the relentless defining and re-defining of our struggle not by us, but by our loud, bigoted opposition.

    When we wanted tolerance, they cried that we were demanding acceptance.

    When we wanted acceptance, they lamented that we were demanding approval and support.

    When we wanted young people to have the opportunity to learn what we did not: that they’re not alone and aren’t freaks, they claimed we were recruiting their kids.

    When we want marriage equality, they claim we’re trying to re-define the most important institution in history, which of course can only lead to its irreversible demise.

    And when we speak out against the perverse ignorance passed off as organized religion spouted at millions of innocent ears every Sunday, they pick out just one subsection of those indoctrinated sheep, a minority group who is supposed to be on our side, and claim they’re completely against us.

    They can’t control this conversation. We can never win if they do. So, to that end, thank god we’re talking about BillO the Clown! What a spokesman!

  42. says

    @ BANJIBOI:
    Thank you for your clarification. I do think that this argument becomes reductionist—how do you measure the pain of a tranny vs. a black person vs. a black lesbian tranny?

    The most important thing is that each are treated respectfully and equally socially and under law. And by saying it’s OK to accept either kind of discrimination against something that can be hidden still means that it’s OK to accept discrimination.

    And sorry I misspelled your nom d’Towle above.

    @ THE CITIZEN: my point was not that voting or working for Obama gave one a clean slate on racism. My point was that Cannick has the idea that the white gays are ONLY focused on marriage equality. That’s simply not true. Working for Obama, who does NOT publicly support marriage equality qualifies as one of the many other issues many white gays are fighting for.

  43. Bart says

    More than Bill O’Reilly being both wrong and wrong headed, the woman with the PhD was COMPLETELY wrong as well. The protests should absolutely be in front of these churches, Rick Warren’s especially. Why? Because they are preaching from a Biblical theology that is sliced and diced to fit the message, leaving out the very teaching of JESUS CHRIST, the man/savior the religion is named after. Jesus would kick Rick Warren’s ass back and forth across his church if he were here. Rick Warren is exactly the kind of religious bigot Jesus stood up against in his day. Same with many of these Bible-thumping haters who stand up at the lecturn in the black churches.

    If any of these people actually believe what they preach, their day of reckoning will be ugly. When they are standing before Christ and he says, “I asked one simple thing, Love God above all and treat your fellow man as you wish to be treated, and you couldn’t do it. You hate to invoke hatred and devisiveness in my name. Shame on you, your punishment awaits.”

  44. TheCitizen says

    JTLVR Said
    “I find it ironic that a community so welcoming, accepting and connected by shared experiences of marginalization, socializes along racial lines. We have white, Latin, Black, Asian gay bars and clubs. Don’t tell me it just because of music and style. It’s largely because no one understands our experience better than our own kind. We are comfortable in that mentality and socialize accordingly.

    All this to say, we need to organize ourselves and focus on the unconstitutionality of Prop 8, not the religious disagreements.

    We need to better examine the the roles race and class play into this movement and involved people from all levels and colors in it, and most importantly, stop the angry, racial charged rhetoric. It’s ugly, it’s not going to win us any further support, and it only causes to alienate your lesbian and gay sisters and brothers of color… like me.”

    Quoted For Truth

  45. Ace says

    So is Roseanne Barr one of those right wing wackos or Bill O’Reilly’s puppet? From her Blog: http://www.roseanneworld.com/blog/2008/11/70_of_black_californians.php

    -begin quote-

    70% of black church going californians

    who voted this cycle voted for prop 8. As they overwhelmingly supported America’s first chance to elect a person of color and strike a death blow to racism, they also went out of their way to misuse their votes (no doubt at the behest of their immoral and hateful pastors and clergy) to isolate and punish a small minority of citizens, and to deny them basic civil rights.
    They voted to deny over 70,000 californian children coverage of the insurance benefits of their gay parents. They voted to destroy the constitution that Obama will hopefully uphold against their wishes, by making sure that church and state remain separated. They voted to “uphold the sanctity of marriage” by making a mockery of it. They showed themselves every inch as bigoted and ignorant as their white christian right wing counterpartners who voted for mccain-palin and bush-cheney.
    When i suggested a couple of years ago that gay organizations should build official bridges with african american organizations, in order to build political consensus and not just represent a purely gay agenda, this very vote is what I was trying to speak to.
    The gay community needs to do outreach to the black and latino christian and immigrant communities.

    the more things change, the more they stay the same.
    REPENT all ye bible blabbers!!!!
    babble on babylon – end quote

  46. Ace says

    One thing to ponder . . Obama will be our new President because a majority of people voted for him. Both major political parties and candidates have flaws, radicals and ideologies to work out, but at the end of the day, more people decided to vote Obama. The fact that he had a HUGE financial advantage didn’t hurt, either. Most liberals have savored the Obama victory by telling the Republicans to STFU and deal.

    So the same is true now for Prop 8. The majority voted it in. Is that fair? Is it ignorant? Is it permanent or inhuman or moral or what? Each voter made that choice personal choice as they voted.

    If you do not like the result, the best thing you can do is regroup, look at your message and what you want to get across, and CONSIDER YOUR AUDIENCE. Mad attacks on the people you disagree with aren’t going to get you their support.

    I’m a long time supporter of gay rights and (gasp) I’m also a pro choice Republican woman. I am in a state of perpetua political compromise LOL.

    Stop attacking. Regroup. Think about your values, your principles, and why you want them respected. Find solidarity and present your message with some marketing savvy.

    If the majority has rejected your side of the issue, either you need to accept your side is not the majority, or you need to review your message, clean up your presentation and present it again.

    See you in 2012.

  47. Oscar says

    For as long as black people follow their pastors or ministers like blind mice there can never be a reconciliation with gays.I lived with a black for 7 years and his family kept quoting Paul’s Letters to hurt us.Finally I send him and his family to hell.Also I learn that blacks think that civil rights are theirs and nobody has the rights to them. I’m a latin and even to us they do not want to allow to use that wording.All I’m waiting is for us latins to come of age (we are the largest minority in the USA today,without counting the illegal) and blacks will see what a real war is all about.Even the Obamas will not be able to hold the wave that is coming.Can’t wait to bring them down again and forever.And yes it was the black christian vote what sank the Prop 8 and the Prop 2 and all the other antigay props.

  48. Bill says

    Prop 8 clearly stated on the ballot:

    ELIMINATES RIGHT OF SAME-SEX COUPLES TO MARRY

    How much outreach is needed to understand that? How much of an education does a person need to know what ELIMINATES RIGHT means? People are excusing anti-gay bigotry because they have axes to grind and/ or don’t want to admit their is a problem with anti-gay bigotry in their community.

  49. TheCitizen says

    Bill.

    You are the one who sounds like they have an axe to grind. You’ve repeated posted the same inflammatory remarks and when people responded, you showed no willingness to either learn or consider ANY position of the other’s side. Your entire message rests on this “blacks are bigots. Blacks are bigots, blacks are bigots”, nothing more, nothing less.

    You’re either another gay racist or a republican plant.

  50. TheCitizen says

    I think this link also applies to you too Bill.

    http://ernesthardy.blogspot.com/2008/11/fuck-dan-savage.html

    (From website)

    “While so many (too many) white queers have spent the last several days bashing all black folk as monolithic homophobic Neanderthals, four things are worth noting. 1) The No On 8 groups did a shitty job getting their message out to various minority groups whose votes hung in the balance and who collectively might have swung the vote a different way if they’d been approached in the first place. Click this link to read one example of how they shrugged off the responsibility of campaigning in communities of color. (And not just black neighborhoods.) By contrast, the Yes On 8 folks rolled out well beyond their natural constituencies, networking with all sorts of folks, being sure to create imagery and to reference cultural signifiers in multiple languages that would play with Black, Latino and Asian voters. Yeah, they lied their lying asses off… but they also did the ground work that No On 8 simply did not. 2) White gay men saying they feel betrayed because they voted for Obama and the niggers voted for Prop 8 need to do better. This was not a quid pro quo situation. You didn’t vote for Obama as a favor to black folks. You did it because he was the candidate most likely to serve your interests and who was most in line with your politics and your hopes for the future. 3) Prop 8 was created, funded and overwhelmingly passed by the overwhelming support of white people. 4) The following items are of special note: The nation’s two most progressive governors on gay issues are African Americans Deval Patrick (Massachusetts) and David Paterson (New York). Iconic civil rights figures like Julian Bond and the late Coretta Scott King have been outspoken in their support of gay & lesbian rights. The Congressional Black Caucus is perhaps the most powerful and consistently pro-gay and lesbian political block in Washington.”

  51. DB says

    Hate to even type this but the war between Blacks and Gays started with the Gay community not with Bill O’reily. Anyone who listens to Out Q in the morning heard Larry Flint pretty much say that the Black community screwed the Gay community. Savage followed along with a lot of Gay people.

    Rod 2.0 reported on the rally where the majority White protesters yelled out the “N” word. The divided is here. The real question is when is the Gay community going to address it.

  52. ZEKE says

    “trying to pit gays against blacks”? HAVE TOU BEEN READING YOUR OWN BLOG? There has been so much hate spewed just on this blog alone. Gays need to learn to get along with each other before they can move forward.

  53. Sportin' Life says

    Citizen, Bill’s comment wasn’t inflammatory. It was correct.

    There is no excuse for homophobia anywhere, not among white people, not among black people. Constitutional rights don’t depend on how well anyone “reaches out” to this or that group.

  54. Sportin' Life says

    Some people seem to suffer from a serious lack of perspective.

    Shouting racial epithets at people in public is of course beyond the pale, but voting to take constitutional rights away from people because “god” told you to is far worse. Ffs, gay and lesbian people just got written out of the constitution.

    The problem is people of all races who voted for this garbage. No reason to single out bigots of any particular sort for extra emphasis. But not for excuses about how they weren’t “reached out” to, either.

  55. TheCitizen says

    Sportin

    I or anyone have not tried to excuse anyone for voting to pass Prop 8. But is it wrong to wonder if the gay community has a particular problem with communities of color, gay or straight, that it contributes to that once hidden divide and if we explicitly tackled those problems head on, we might have changed many minds? People do not come out the womb enlightened, nor do bigots turn around unopposed. Reaching out includes combating AND relating.

    I’ve always known that the black community has problem with homophobia. Anyone who knows the black experience knows that. Anyone who was shocked by the statistics are completely ignorant of black life today.

    Black LGBT people and LGBT of color in general have often complained of the apathy and neglect they receive from the larger gay community before, citing apathy, neglect, and sometimes outright racism. I’m not saying white gay men would vote to outlaw say, asian-asian marriage, but its unsurprising that the white gay community immediately lines up in firing squad form and goes ahunting. The treatment of gay people of color and the reaction to Prop 8 goes hand in hand.

    This is my concern.

  56. TheCitizen says

    No Sportin, there isn’t any excuse for homophobia, racism, sexism…but would it have killed anyone to have ONE anti-prop ad on television with a black gay couple? Even the Mormons were intelligent enough to include ALL colors in their ads.

  57. Bill says

    DB, stop lying. The majority didn’t say anything like that. I have literally watched every prop 8 protest online and I have never heard that word spoken.

    TheCitizen, I have said anti-gay bigotry is pervasive in the black community. I never said every black person is an anti-gay bigot. Anti-gay bigotry is pervasive in society as a whole and is dangerous. I have condemned it everytime I have seen it. Believe me I try not to comment online on anything but I can not let anti-gay bigotry go unchallenged. For far too long gay people have had NO voice. Now I have a voice and I will not let history be forgotten and will challenge it at every turn.

  58. Jake says

    Reading these comments is making me so angry. It’s not about who has has the greatest struggle AA or LGBT it’s about American law still discriminating against gays. In 30 states you can be fired for being gay. Homophobia and Racism exists but to have homophobia written into US law makes it acceptable to be homophobic. Stop making this a racial issue it’s not. The law needs to change and gradually the people will change.

  59. says

    Racism is not going anywhere, just because it’s politically incorrect to use racist language does not mean it has disappeared from people’s tongues, it’s gone underground. We must also look at the other factors besides skin color. We are living in a world dictated by gender roles, and patriarchy. We must examine the environment in which someone was raised….we fear men who are feminine because femininity is taught to be weak, therefore creating female shame and queer hate. There are so many factors besides this, stop and understand that just because you were raised one way does not mean someone else was not raised or socialized in an environment completely different. A lot of African Americans are religious and are taught that homosexuality is wrong, this on top of hyper-masculine gender roles makes someone fear. Understand that it will take along time to undo what’s been taught, and that what we teach is what we want the person to analyze and conclude with on their own terms, not what we’ve brainwashed them to believe.

  60. abden says

    You’re asking us not to flame the woman on the O’Reilly show but how are we supposed to voice our opinion on what she said? She got on fucking Fox News and her voice was heard.

  61. Slide says

    Reading many of the comments here.Ive come to the conclusion that you homos are a bunch of racist bigots.Ive have never once read a comment on here that states any kind of concern and reaching out to those gays and lesbians who are black,latino,and asian.All you bigots care about is your selfish white selves.As one poster put it,We are all one community and you always divide yourselves as the better group in the GLBT community.Now I knew California’s gay community was segregated,but this…this is a cry for help.Some of you really need a rude awakening.You racists bigots will get yours in hell.

  62. Russell says

    Anybody, and I mean ANYBODY, who believes that the “black vote” caused the result is being disgusting, racist, and bigoted. I am a white, gay man and I’m saying this for a reason: The so-called “black vote” did not do this. Evangelical white Christians voted over 80% YES! Let’s blame them, since there are way more of them voting in each election. What about the elderly? Or the 51% of white men who voted yes, and who amount to over a MILLION more votes than the entire black voting community, which by the way had 30% voting NO!

    Singling out the African-American community as being “responsible” is racist and wrong. We have EVERYONE who voted YES, regardless of race, religion, nationality, sexual orientation, etc. to blame. We need to reach all of them. Singling out one group is disgusting and needs to stop, whether it be from Bill O’Reiley or the LGBT movement itself.

Leave A Reply