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11/12/2008
Dan Savage Talks to Stephen Colbert About Prop 8
Stephen Colbert talked with Dan Savage of Slog last night and discussed the Prop 8 situation. Nice job, Mr. Savage. Savage also published an op-ed in today's NYT.
The O'Reilly video here.
Watch it, AFTER THE JUMP...
Posted 1:32 PM EST by Andy Towle in California, Gay Marriage, News, Proposition 8 | Permalink
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They are a perfect match. Savage is hilarious!
Posted by: Aman Chaudhary | Nov 12, 2008 1:40:35 PM
How about an APOLOGY, Dan, since it seems you're now bactracking from your original stance? How come the original article you wrote lambasting blacks has disappeared from The Stranger?
Yeah, nice job. Of trying to cover your ass.
Posted by: banjiboi | Nov 12, 2008 1:57:16 PM
Dan is SO RIGHT!! GLBTQ people will never have full equality (when measures are voted on) until the oldest generations die off.
Yeah, I'm sorry, that's insensitive. I know. My mother is 73, my grandmother is 96, I love them both very, very much, but I recognize that neither they nor anyone in their generations is going to vote to give gay people any freedoms whatsoever. I know this. They didn't vote to give black people any freedoms in the 60's either. They told me so.
So, Dan's right. The old people must die off, then our rights will come to us.
Unless there's another way. The way of Loving v. Virginia. The courts.
The courts have been the fundamental way that civil rights have been issued to true minorities. Not to say that African Americans, the disabled, the elderly, etc., aren't minorities - they certainly are, and all of them had legilation passed by Congress & signed by the President.
But many other (true) minorities haven't been so fortunate, so the courts have had to back them up. Interracial families, GLBTQ, and Native Americans are minorities that come to mind who've relied upon our justice system to ensure their civil rights.
Bottom line, either the old people must die, or the courts will have to intervene, for GLBTQ folks to get the civil rights we deserve.
Frankly, I'm OK with either scenario.
Posted by: steve | Nov 12, 2008 2:04:42 PM
Hey Banji.
I was one of those who berated Savage over that article. I wish he wasn't so proud enough to forgo apologizing. But deleting that crap article, replacing it with something more enlightening and going on Colbert more sophisticated is enough for me.
Posted by: TheCitizen | Nov 12, 2008 2:05:00 PM
I *heart* Dan Savage.
Posted by: matt | Nov 12, 2008 2:08:46 PM
Yes, Dan did go too far in claiming blacks were responsible. But, no one really had the full data at the time, which later revealed that the real culprits were, as he says, the older voters. Also, as Colbert jokes about, it would be a disaster and be utterly ridiculous for two minority groups to fight one another (esp when one person can be part of both groups!)
Posted by: ERB | Nov 12, 2008 2:16:05 PM
Dan is so funny... and savage in his wit ;-) Loved seeing the two of them foil off each other... great segment!
Posted by: CK | Nov 12, 2008 2:19:47 PM
"saddlebacking"? seriously, can some one define that for me? I think I know what they are getting at but am not totally sure.
Posted by: Rob | Nov 12, 2008 2:21:34 PM
Hey Citizen,
Well, for starters his "Mandingo" joke at the start of the interview didn't help matters, much. Is his thinking that black men are desirable supposed to make me feel any better? I know that I've been expressing quite a bit of righteous indignation here today, and judging from your posts, I value your opinion, so let's just say that for now that I'll forgive, but not forget, and I'm gonna keep my eye on that one!
And for the record, until very recently, I used to be a big fan of his.
Posted by: banjiboi | Nov 12, 2008 2:30:19 PM
People tend to forget that this is satire and not real news.
Posted by: Lazycrockett | Nov 12, 2008 2:32:32 PM
I think it's true, we didn't lose because of the black vote, we lost because of the mormon money and stubborn old people. I understand why the mormon voted the way they did, frankly, I really didn't expect more out of bigots but I don't understand why black people voted in the numbers they did. I think all of us are very confused why a group that just so recently won their struggle for equal rights and actually the exact same right, marriage, being voted on right now would vote to deny to another group the same rights.
I think we absolutely have the right to be confused by their vote, however we shouldn't let the confusion lead to anger.
Posted by: John M | Nov 12, 2008 2:38:40 PM
Steve -- "I recognize that neither they nor anyone in their generations is going to vote to give gay people any freedoms whatsoever."
Not entirely. My 93 year old grandfather was our witness when we married in Los Angeles. He may be the exception rather than the rule, but don't count out the old folks completely. (Just as we shouldn't count out all religious people, all African Americans, all Republicans, etc.) We have a lot of room for growth in many demographics.
Posted by: Alan | Nov 12, 2008 2:39:16 PM
Hey Alan - you are 100% right here - the problem with this blaming blacks, old folk etc. is that it presumes all of them to be one way. And I think the No On 8 campaign presumed that and we got the results that we got.
Even mormons may not ALL be hideous in their beliefs - just the leadership & donors. How about approaches to each subgroup of supposed 'H8ers': and speak to them in their language and use allies from their communities to create a new listening. Even if we get 10% - 15% we will win if we go to the ballot again.
Posted by: echovic | Nov 12, 2008 3:16:42 PM
@John M:
Many white gays are so focused on their own narrowly-defined gay politics that they see no reason to support African-American issues. They see those issues like they're from another planet. (I'm not saying it's right; I'm just saying it's common.)
When it comes to politics, most people have a hard time seeing past their own face (or wallet). Why should African-Americans be any different?
Yes. It's ironic that American minorities don't support each other more. We should, but we don't. But we're only human, and humans are self-centered.
P.S. It's also a bit distorted to say that the civil rights struggle has been "won" (past tense). In reality, racism is so deeply embedded in American culture and mores that it will take a long time before it is truly defeated. It is an ongoing struggle.
Posted by: Marc in Chicago | Nov 12, 2008 3:24:09 PM
@MARC IN CHICAGO. You are correct -- to a point. The point being, despite the self-interest of single-issue voters, I can NOT imagine a plurality of gay men voting to have any rights REMOVED from black people. I can not see ANY gay men voting for a proposition that said "Eliminate the right for black people to marry white people". And although we must be careful not to generalize that "all X people did this", or "the proposition failed because of group Y", the fact that ANY black people voted to remove rights from another minority is a crying shame.
Posted by: Strepsi | Nov 12, 2008 3:37:20 PM
@Marc in Chi-town
Can I get a, dare I say, amen?
Posted by: banjiboi | Nov 12, 2008 3:37:39 PM
Strepsi? ANYBODY who'd vote to remove rights from anyone is a crying shame.
Posted by: TheCitizen | Nov 12, 2008 4:48:34 PM
Marc, you can't see any gay men voting for a proposition denying black people to right to marry. Really?
To believe that, one would have to believe that that there were no gay men alive in 1967 when it was the law of the land in 16 states (and custom in the rest).
Posted by: Carly | Nov 12, 2008 4:49:04 PM
I lost all respect for Savage when I read his disgusting article. He revealed himself to be nothing but another gay white racist. Screw him.
glad to see he's aging horribly...
Posted by: ISpy | Nov 12, 2008 5:58:36 PM
Dan Savage needs to apologize for that bullshit.
He is an internationally syndicated columnist, author, media pundit, journalist and newspaper editor. His opinions are highly regarded by his readers and he is duty-bound to get his facts straight (no pun intended). Yet he chose to take a faulty poll as gospel and subsequently fed into the racial hysteria. We expected nothing less of Mickey Rourke and Isaiah Washington, and they are just obnoxious actors! So why should Dan get off the hook?
Posted by: Q | Nov 12, 2008 6:39:41 PM
Excuse me, but how was the story about overwhelming black support for Prop 8 ever refuted? Some queen got nervous and changed the subject, saying that age was the "key" factor. It's as if blacks only voted for Prop 8 inasmuch as they're a much older population (huh?) Slice, dice it,70/30 is overwhelming - good for Dan for restating that verity, which was carried in the LA Times. Finally, why is it okay to say "fuck mormons?" but not merely say "thanks a lot, blacks!"? Principle or fear?
Posted by: Antaeus | Nov 12, 2008 7:03:08 PM
Hey Antaeus
I've written enough on this subject. I'll just post links for now on. Read and educate yourself.
P.S. I do not even believe its right to say "fuck Mormons".
http://ernesthardy.blogspot.com/2008/11/pic-of-day-scapegoating-then-now.html
Posted by: TheCitizen | Nov 12, 2008 7:24:52 PM
@Antaeus, it has been more than refuted. It has been dissected and proven to be fairly ridiculous:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/11/7/34645/1235/704/656272
Posted by: Q | Nov 12, 2008 7:52:03 PM
I didn't see the article on the Stranger, but I still wish Dan Savage would 'gay marry' me.
Posted by: db | Nov 12, 2008 7:57:18 PM
Citizen,
Commentary is fun to read (sometimes) but the exit poll data is far more enlightening. No doubt, Gay Marriage proponents must make a better effort at targeting nonwhites for education on social issues. The data are clear. Take a gander:
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#CAI01p1
Posted by: Antaeus | Nov 12, 2008 8:00:30 PM