Mega Prop 8 Update 11-14-08: News, Protests, Links, Video

road.jpg National protests Saturday in every state across the nation – Join the Impact.

Defendequality_shepardfaire_5road.jpg EXCLUSIVE: Shepard Fairey, creator of the iconic Obama “Hope” image, has designed a poster for Prop 8 and the LGBT campaign for equal rights. High-res versions now available HERE.

road.jpg Marriage equality foes now using Elton John as an ally because of these remarks.

road.jpg Civil rights groups ask California Supreme Court to stop enactment of Prop 8: “Civil rights groups today filed a petition with the California Supreme Court to stop the enactment of Proposition 8 because it would mandate discrimination against a minority group and did not follow the process required for fundamental revisions to the California Constitution. In the petition, the Asian Pacific American Legal Center, Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund, Equal Justice Society, California NAACP and the NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund, Inc. argue that in order to protect the fundamental rights of all Californians, a higher standard is required to overturn the right to marry. Minority communities cannot be stripped of their fundamental rights by a simple majority vote.”

road.jpg You wish it was 1,000 Bill. Multiply that by 10. O’Reilly warns wingnuts that this is just the gateway drug in the culture wars: “So you can see the debate over gay marriage is now a full fledge national battle. As talking points said last night the election of Barack Obama has emboldened secular progressives who feel it is their time. Gay marriage just the beginning. Other cultural war issues will also be in display very shortly. These include limiting gun possession, legalizing narcotics, unrestricted abortion and the revocation of the Patriot Act.”

road.jpg The State Supreme Court has asked Attorney General Jerry Brown to reply by Monday to lawsuits challenging the legality of Prop 8, suggesting the court is taking them very seriously: “The filing the court requested from Brown’s office will not address the ballot measure’s validity, but will focus instead on the initial questions of whether the justices should accept the suits for review – and, if so, whether they should suspend Prop. 8 while they decide the case, said the state’s lawyer, Christopher Krueger, a senior assistant attorney general. Suspending Prop. 8 would allow same-sex marriages to resume.”

road.jpg NAMES quilt creator Cleve Jones and Milk screenwriter Dustin Lance Black have called for a seven-week sustained campaign to secure equal rights for LGBT Americans.

road.jpg USA Today: After passage of Prop 8, support for same-sex marriage grows.

Burgessroad.jpg Phyliss Burgess, the Prop 8 supporter in Palm Springs who had her cross torn from her hands and stomped on by a group of ‘No on 8′ protestors plans to press charges.

road.jpg Californians Against Hate “filed a complaint with California’s Fair Political Practices Commission (FPPC), alleging The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints failed to report nonmonetary contributions that helped pass the measure, which defines marriage as between a man and a woman.” Salt Lake Tribune: “Fred Karger, the advocacy organization’s founder, wrote in a letter to the FPPC and attorneys general Edmund G. Brown Jr. of California and Mark Shurtleff of Utah that the church ‘has been highly secretive about its massive involvement in the campaign, but we managed to piece together evidence of some of their more visible activities done directly to communicate with California voters.'”

road.jpg GAVIN NEWSOM: On Prop 8, the fight continues.

road.jpg California county clerks are confused as to when same-sex marriage ban begins: “County clerks across California are clamoring for legal advice to resolve confusion about when to begin the gay-marriage ban that voters passed last week in a ballot initiative. At least three same-sex couples have obtained marriage licenses since the Nov. 4 passage of the measure overturning the state Supreme Court decision legalizing gay marriage.”

road.jpg The L.A. Gay & Lesbian Center’s Invalidate Prop 8 campaign to raise funds to fight the legal battles against Prop 8’s passage has raised more than $60,000 and sent more than 2,300 postcards to Mormon church President Thomas Monson, acknowledging that a donation has been made in his name to invalidate Prop. 8 and restore fundamental civil rights to all Californians. Here’s their press release (PDF) on the disbursement of those funds.

road.jpg Bill O’Reilly’s disgusting take on the Prop 8 battle. He hates gays so much, and he really still wants that war pitting gays against Blacks, and activist Jasmyne Cannick seems to want to assist him:

Perhaps Cannick should listen to Reverend Irene Monroe and Whoopi Goldberg. Please, no racist flames against Cannick. She has the right to her opinion even though imho it’s pretty inflammatory.

road.jpg DAVID MIXNER: Proposition 8 and race. “Among the most foolish has been the dialogue around the African-American vote in California. It has been tinged in places with racism, not based totally on good knowledge, lacks a historical perspective and certainly doesn’t create an atmosphere to build a better coalition…”

Signroad.jpg Sign at Kim Light/Lightbox Gallery in Culver City, Los Angeles reads: “WARNING: This area may contain homosexuals, which are known by the State of California to be harmful to the sanctity of heterosexual marriage.”

road.jpg A lesbian mother in Fresno has been asked to resign from her position as president of the PTA at her son’s Catholic school: “Robin McGehee, who enrolled her son Sebastian at St. Helens Catholic School, says she went to a vigil for the ‘No on Proposition 8′ campaign last Thursday. After that, a priest from the Diocese of Fresno told her to step down because she had gone against church teachings. The PTA’s vice president, Tiffany Rodriquez, confirmed that McGehee was removed. Rodriquez herself resigned in protest of her removal.”

Mormontempleroad.jpg “Letters containing a suspicious white powder” were apparently sent to two Mormon temples in Los Angeles and Salt Lake City: “The temple in the Westwood area of Los Angeles was evacuated before a hazardous materials crew determined the envelope’s contents were not toxic, said FBI spokesman Jason Pack. The temple in downtown Salt Lake City, where the church is based, received a similar envelope containing a white powder that spilled onto a clerk’s hand. The room was decontaminated and the envelope taken by the FBI for testing. The clerk showed no signs of illness, but the scare shut down a building at Temple Square for more than an hour, said Scott Freitag, a spokesman for the Salt Lake City Fire Department. None of the writing on the envelope was threatening, and the church received no calls or messages related to the package, Freitag said.” Or, of course, they were sent there by anti-gays wanting gays to be seen as domestic terrorists.

Leatherbysroad.jpg Prop 8 victors, particularly Dave Leatherby, owner of the Leatherby Family Creamery in Sacramento, upset by personal attacks: “Leatherby and his family donated about $20,000 for the passage of Proposition 8. A devout Catholic and father of 10, Leatherby supported the measure for religious reasons. He said his business has been targeted by bloggers as a result, and that he is particularly confused because his business has participated in the annual gay pride Rainbow Festival.”


road.jpg L.A. Times: Boycott talk spreads

road.jpg According to the Hot Blog, “The Festival Director of FIND’s LA Film Festival, Rich Raddon, came up on a “Yes On 8” donation list this morning. $1500…And I must say, positions amongst FIND insiders are widely varied. The phrase ‘witch hunt’ has been used… as has ‘I can’t see ever sitting down at a meeting table with him again.'”

road.jpg EL COYOTE: Here’s a great report on Marjorie Christoffersen’s meeting at popular Los Angeles Mexican restaurant El Coyote over her donation to Proposition 8. And two videos:

road.jpg The CEO of Cinemark cinemas, Alan Stock, gave $9999 to the “Yes on 8″ campaign. It’s a huge international chain of cinemas. The Sundance Film festival will be using some of Cinemark’s theatres to screen its films.

road.jpg Damage control at Marriott hotels. Here’s the reason for the damage control.


  1. Alex says

    People, it’s no good sending good cocaine to the Mormons! Please, don’t waste it!

    Kidding aside, I have a HARD TIME believing some gay people sent them anthrax. Liberals don’t do shit like this. This is fabricated by the Morms since they are hellbent on outvictimizing the gays. Someone needs to call the Waaaaaahmbulance on these people. They are shameless.

  2. Sebastian says

    I doubt if Cannick really wants to assist the right wing nut crowds, I think that she is ticked off by being called a racial slur by some of the gays. The lesson is that not all blacks are homophobic, but, call them a slur, as more than a few have in the past couple of weeks with glee, you have lost most of them gay or even the more liberal straight ones.

    Its going to take black people to educate black people, just like it will take Asians and Hispanics to educate their communities, and, going after them with rage and hate isn’t going to help.

    And, its easy to find out who put money into this hate filled Prop 8 and, each and everyone of the business should be called out and boycotted, since in the end, money speaks louder than anything else in this country.

  3. says

    I would gently suggest not featuring Cannick’s ranting on the site. She’s got a right to her opinion, but it’s not a legitimate take on the situation. Like Ann Coulter, her statements aren’t meant to be an objective, informed impression of the situation, and shouldn’t be treated as such.

  4. Thank You says

    Andy: Your postings and compilations re Prop 8 are an IMMENSE service to the world, and our future.

    I would, however, stop publicizing Jasmyne Cannick. I have zero tolerance for racial bigotry, and am a vehement supporter of correcting racial inequality and injustice. But Ms. Cannick is destructive. She wants to hold one matter of justice hostage as a way to attempt to correct another, which is horrifying. She is the Fred Phelps of our side and should be given as little publicity as possible.

  5. David B. says

    Marjorie Christoffersen from El Coyote – what a performance!

    I stopped going there a couple of years ago after complaining about a comment made by a busboy (in Spanish) about two mostly drunk (and there’s a lot of that in El Coyote) gay guys who were carrying on a little too much for his tastes (he called them disgusting whores). This was while a straight couple, across the isle were practically having sex in their booth – to no comment, just smiles and snickers. The manager didn’t take my complaint very seriously. That was it for me.

    El Coyote will survive THE BOYCOTT – Christoffersen just won’t be the owner. As it should be.

  6. says

    Bill O’Reilly’s sole point in bringing Jasmyne Cannick and Wayne Besen together is to fan the racial flames, pit minorities against one another, and make gay people as scary as he finds black people. Tony Perkins did the same thing on Anderson’s show. Cannick and Besen both have valid points, but THAT is not the ultimate point. The ultimate point is that we deserve equal marriage rights, something they AGREE on, as much as O’Reilly tries to goad them (successfully, alas) into being enemies. Don’t take the racial bait, or you’ll be giving Bill O’ a big O. The Colbert Report is brilliantly examining the absurdity of the right-wing-hyped black/gay culture war. Watch him instead of Bill!

    “Obama and Biden oppose Gay Marriage.”
    FYI, Joe, the election is over, and everyone on Towleroad is well aware of their positions. They are wrong on marriage, and they are politicians. They also oppose Prop 8.

  7. Bob says

    Boo hoo is right. The bible says that blessed are those who are persecuted in My name. I think it also says somewhere that if you mess with the bull you might get the horns. If not, it should.

  8. says

    No she DOESN’T ‘have a right to her opinion’! What a pathetic mealy-mouthed way of allowing our sworn enemies to shit and piss all over us!

    The woman has no notion of gay African-American history and no interest in learning. She flames herself.

  9. Sameer says

    It would be really helpful if you could make a list of national corporations to boycott as a result of their leader’s support for Prop 8. Right now I have Cinemark, JetBlue, Marriott, and American Express.

  10. Brandon says

    From the build-up, I thought Jazymne was going say some really crazy stuff. What I thought I heard her say was that the communications strategy regarding marriage equality was not successful given the fact that the African American civil rights movement arose from the church. I think that is true. You’ve got to take that into account when making arguments to the AA community.

    That said, O’Reilly is all over this and now conservatives will be too. It is going to be very hard to put that genie back in the bottle.

    One more thing that people on here need to know: Cannick WAS part of the National Black Justice Coalition. She isn’t anymore. From what I hear, it was because of her incendiary language and attitude. My point is that black people reject her tone too. She doesn’t NOT speak for black people.

  11. Paull R says

    Gavin Newsom rules in just about every possible way. People who say he set back the movement seem to forget that he played a crucial role in starting it. History will be on his side.

  12. Brandon says

    Sorry 4 the second post, but there’s something else I want to say. When I was a kid, MLK Day was not originally a holiday. I remember that campaign and how my dad stayed home, refused to shop, etc., to show economic clout. It took a while, but they did it. (I note that John McCain voted AGAINST making MLK Day a national holiday.) To this day, I still feel a little weird doing anything on MLK Day as a result.

    If we are going to get active, we need something more than an amorphous seven weeks to equality campaign. (This isn’t a dig at guys proposing this. I’m glad they had the guts to put something out there.) But, I think something tangible and measurable is necessary to demonstrate the importance and power of gay people.

  13. says

    I used to contribute to at least four organizations that assisted the less fortunate. All of the latest appeals for funds were returned with an explanation that, given the result of the California voter repeal of the right to marry for same sex couples, I no longer wished to contribute to the general welfare of a population that would oppress me. Let the heterosexual voters of this nation care and feed for the unwanted children of it’s sexual indiscretions and the hungry parents who planted the seeds of hate. They can do it without my gay money.

  14. Morgan says

    I think the argument from the supporters of Prop 8 that “why can’t the other side be as tolerant now of differing viewpoints” is infuriating. There is a huge difference between tolerating viewpoints and legislating against viewpoints that differ from one’s own. I think boycotts are a great way to go, and I think that these supporters should feel, at least on some level, feel the effects of their bigotry.

  15. says

    Love your site, appreciate this round-up.

    I offer my blog to anyone who needs a laugh during this struggle—it’s a compendium of some of the most outrageously dumb shit written by marriage-equality opponents (with annotation). They may be able to marry, but at least we can spell “polygamy.”

  16. Gary says

    I smell Reichtag fire! It would be the first time this year of alleged crimes committed by us ‘liberals’ only to be then revealed to be one that did it themselves.

  17. Eric says

    Jasmyne Cannick really needs to learn her history. Yes, the churches played a big role in the civil rights movement, but it was not borne out of the churches.

    She completely disregards the influences of Latinos on the civil rights movement. The legal strategies used were copied from the legal battles that Latinos fought more than a decade before.

    The strategy that the lawyers used in Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka was very heavily influenced by the strategy used in Mendez v. Westminster.

    Jasmyne Cannick has no concept of historical context. She is divisive, unthoughtful, and harmful to our campaign.

    Her article in the LA Times is even worse than the stuff she was spouting to Bill O’Reilly.

  18. what says

    I’m getting a little tired of people using the term “witch hunt” in connection to boycotting and blacklisting. A witch hunt is a hunt for something that _doesn’t_ exist (the witch) in a condemning, accusatory manner.

    In all of the current cases, there is no witch as the people targeted are bigots and demonstrated that fact by donating money.

  19. Derrick from Philly says


    we get it: Black Americans were too stupid to think up anything on our own. Fine. I’ve learned this past week that your attitude is indeed the attitude of most white homosexual men…probably more than 75%. I guess most black gays would say to me, “Du’uh…told you so.”

  20. Leland Frances says

    JOIN THE IMPACT organizer believes WE SHOULD LEAVE THE MORMONS ALONE. Read it and weep:

    1. However golden the destination one should always know the driver of the specific car you hitch a ride with. Do they actually have any idea of how to get where you want to go? Do they even know how they drive or are they a child who took the keys and went for a joy ride?

    Amy Balliett, the 26-yr. old Viral Whiz Kid from Seattle who created the “Impact” demos this weekend, told that she


    Gee, I guess Andy and Corey and Whoopi and the thousands of others who demonstrated at the Mormon Temple in NYC, and thousands of others across the country doing similar things SHOULD BE ASHAMED.

    (b.) Sounding as confused as she does spineless, she also said, emphasis mine: “The government has to provide the rights. THE CHURCHES SHOULD DEFINE WHAT THEY WANT TO CALL THOSE RIGHTS. But any citizen engaging in a consensual relationship with someone they want to spend the rest of their life with SHOULD HAVE TO CHOOSE THE CHURCH that is going to GIVE THEM the TYPE OF MARRIAGE THEY WISH TO HAVE.”

    2. CA Attorney General Jerry Brown says he will DEFEND Prop 8 in court just as FOUGHT AGAINST marriage equality before the state Supreme Court. He apparently thinks he’s required to because of his job. We used to call that the “Eichmann Defense” named after Adoph Eichmann, the “architect of the Holocaust” whose defense when the Israelis tracked him down in Argentina and took him back to Israel for trial was, “I was just following orders.”

    Prop H8TE is our “Nuremberg Law” and anyone who supports in for whatever reason should be condemned, challenged, and punished. So will you be voting for him when he runs for CA Governor?

    3. Jasmyne Coulter also defended Isaiah Washington after he called TR Knight a “faggot” and Michael Vick’s torture of dogs, claiming they were “victims” of the “white gay mafia.”

    4. DO NOT send money to LA Gay Center infamous for accepting blood money from COORS and whose director was one of the “leaders” of the fucked up NO campaign! Send donations DIRECTLY to Lambda Legal, the gay legal group actually fighting the case to overturn H8TE.

  21. Sportin' Life says

    Cannick wasn’t nearly as awful as I had been expecting and fearing. She wouldn’t say what O’Reilly wanted her to say (what he put her on the show specifically to say) so he just said it himself and then cut off the opportunity for response.

  22. CJ says

    I could right pages; legal briefs and historical/biblical references; that counter any claim that taking away rights based on a majority vote, may it be handicap rights, etc, is constitutional. News flash: “All men are created equal”. With the pioneering efforts of Benjamin Franklin, our forefathers fled religious persecution and established a nation, NOT “In GOD we trust” as our politicians/right wing from the mid-20th Century would have us believe through the re-write of historical documents, but “In SCIENCE we trust”. Thus began what has become a blurred line between Church and State, a fact that has our founding fathers spinning in their graves (more than Bill OReilly spins facts on his show).

    The fact of the matter is the state of California, Arizona and Florida allowed the people to make a decision that was influenced by millions of dollars from Churches and bigots to misinform and public with scare tactics and lies right out of the Karl Rove handbook of politics. We have tolerated Religion enough to allow stories and TALES written thousands of years ago in many different versions by many different men, but the reality is the bible is simply a collection of stories meant to control men and deviate natural history. Science has proven this fact, and it will continue in doing so.

    As another poster stated, I find it alarmingly amusing that individuals chose to cherry pick certain Biblical passages to suit their bigotry, much as was once done to justify (wrongly) that slavery is fair game, when so much Biblical “law” is disregarded (such as wearing cloth with more than one fiber or shaving is punishable by stoning, how amusing no one wishes to live by that law, but determines that “marriage” is such a sacred institution). Interesting to note that the Catholic Church did not even recognize marriage until 400-500 years ago, and before such did not discriminate between gender in unions until it was decided that marriage must be “protected”.

    What is it that the religious community is so afraid of? Marriage has been treated as a joke by so many. Britney Spears was married numerous times, divorced, not to mention another “protect marriage” advocate Newt Gingrich, Mccain, Rudolph Guiliani, etc. who have cheated and divorced numerous times. Oh, but wait, how dare another human being who actually LOVES someone come in and redefine their bastardization of “marriage”. Simply put, protecting “marriage” is simply the new Jim Crow law of the 21st Century. Keep us out of your bigotry and religion, and allow us the same rights you have, until then, STAY OUT OF OUR LIVES.

  23. darbnyc says

    guess I’m alone here, but I’m not so quick to dismiss Cannick’s point (if I understood her point).

    It think that she’s arguing that the rhetoric of the gay rights movement sometimes draws exact equivalency to the African American civil rights movement and that is just not going to resonate with African Americans.

    I think that’s a legitimate point. That’s not to say that I don’t see nearly exact equivalency in some areas (e.g., inter-racial marriage rights and gay marriage rights). But if the way this is communicated by gay civil rights activists to the African American community is not working, I don’t think it’s a bad thing to rethink the communications strategy.

  24. Landis says


    Can you please post a consolidated list of international, natioanl, state, and local businesses and institutions that we can boycott? The facebook stuff are too random.

    We need a focused, go-to site on boycott.

  25. says

    I have worked with Jasmyne Cannick on several projects and the woman is a certified nutjob. A complete egomaniac looking out only for herself. Do not trust her. Do not allow her to be a spokesperson for the queer community. She is a spokesperson for Jasmyne Cannick, and that is all.

  26. Jason Sanqui says

    Perhaps if the gay community was more inclusive of racial minorities…if they had a more diverse public face, rather than a white face…these communities would’ve voted no on 8. when these communities only see white people as gay, it’s as if gay people of color do not exist! the media, including the gay media, does a poor job in having the true representation of our community. she has a good point, the gay community in general needs to outreach much more in communities of color.

  27. CK says

    Gary, I can bet you are right on that! These supposed crimes by us liberals, including now today two envelopes of ‘white suspicious powder’ sent to mor(m)on churches, will be shown to be inside work on the bigots part to paint us as criminals. Just watch, time will prove it!

    As for that idiot O’Slimey, he is just so wrong on so many levels where do we start? Maybe with the facts: 1000 people at our march in NYC???? A thousand??? Bill, honey, please… I would have thought at least a vague inkling of math would have been a requirement to pass high school… try counting again, or at least have the balls to be honest about how many of us there really were instead of lying to your viewers as you always do to get your (fallacious) points across! Add a zero on the end of that and you might have a little, teensy bit more truth to your blathering…

    And why should you be surprised that we will be up in arms about Prop 8? Sure it’s great that Obama was elected, but do you think that will make us magically wipe the rest of your poisonous conservative slate clean and forgive all the other shit that you heap on us all the time? Forget it, O’Bigot, you have a LOT to learn!

    As for that idiot at Leatherby’s Creamery being confused at why he is being boycotted ‘since he has participated in the gay pride rainbow festival’ but then voted YES on Prop 8… take your sanctimonious surprise and shove it where the ice cream don’t freeze! What the hell did you think the people you make money off of (that’s the reason you are at the festival, right? To sell your wares?) would do when you trash their rights? Ask for more ice cream? Jeez…. some people are just dumber than a box of bricks!

  28. CK says

    SHADTEA, you are so out of line and full of shit… those personal attacks of yours on Andy are disgusting! He has stayed neutral in the race baiting… did you not read that he said flaming her is wrong because she should be allowed her opinion?

  29. Tim says

    I think any scapegoating of the black community for prop8 victory is a cop out for the sorry campaign run by the No8 politicos. But lets also not forget the very real homophobia that exists in a large segments of the California African-American community, both in churches and hip-hop culture. I’ve heard about it from my black brothers all my adult life,and its painfully evident in some rappers’ lyrics. That’s just reality and we’ve all got to deal with it with some creative, calm dialogue and outreach over years. Its not something that’s going to be overcome with a snap of the fingers.

  30. Daniel says

    Wow, Jerry Brown will really defend Prop 8? That would be a real stain on his legacy as a lib.

    o’reilly really gets a big splash for his culture warrior stance, but don’t ratings show that he gets about 3 million viewers a night, on average? That’s in a nation of 300 million people? His high profile, IMHO, doesn’t seem to be merited based on Nielson ratings alone.

    change of topic: i posted in a comment section last week & nobody responded, but i’ll add it here again: gays linguists who know Arabic who are fired by DA/DT from their military positions lowers the security of America, whether it’s a blue state or a red state. Reinstating those people should be a high priority for EVERY american. Fuck protesting a Mexican restaurant, for God’s sake, and take on the Pentagon for this egregious policy! WTF, people!?

  31. Gregus says

    @ ShadeTea – Your comments are just worthless personal attacks. Sincerely lame and lacking in class. The amazing work that Andy has put in over these last months to covering both this historic election and tragic passage of prop 8 are simply to be commended.

  32. Sebastian says

    I think its unfair to go off on Andy and his site over a few bigots who post here.

    This nonsense about blacks has more to do with the issues of those posters who have issues with them, and, it has nothing to do with gay rights.

    In today’s San Fran paper, they broke down how this city voted, and, some of the strongest opposition was in the toniest part of town, same part Diane Fienstein lives in and who by the way waited until the very last minute to come out against 8, so, this black bashing is just way lame way for racists to go off like they would and have on any issue on this site with a black face attached. And in the latino and Asian parts of town as well, so, if, it gets voted for in one of the most “liberal/progessive” cities in the world, we have more work to do than just wth blacks.

    Cannick? She has a right to her opinion, after all, she is speaking for herself, just like the rest of us, even those who disagree.

  33. gwyneth cornrow says

    Derrick, I don’t think that’s what Eric was saying.
    And I agree with his point that Jasmyne Cannick is fairly unschooled in her history of the civil rights movement. She makes some valid points about the lack of outreach in the No on 8 campaigns, but she is totally out of order claiming herself as a spokesperson for African-Americans.

  34. anon says

    I’ve long defended Mixner on these pages from the rabid Clinton hordes (his getting the boot was the start of the end of my support for WJC and company), but I suspect he’s again going with the devil he knows here. If anything, coalition building isn’t going to work when there are/were no active black leaders out there trying to persuade black voters to oppose Prop 8. Where was Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton during the debate? All the burden is/was on the gay community? Has it really come down to begging?

  35. man says

    “The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosives and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, attitudes, prejudices to be found only in the minds of men. For the record, prejudices can kill, and suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless, frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all of its own; for the children, and the children yet unborn. And the pity of it is that these things cannot be confined to The Twilight Zone.” It was a suspicion that one of the neighbors might be an alien that provided the tension in 1960’s classic “The Monsters are Due on Maple Street” written by Twilight Zone creator Rod Serling. 
This morning an email declaring that a Roland Spongberg and his company WKS Restaurant Corp. (El Pollo Loco, to you) had contributed $6000 in favor of Prop 8. Yesterday it was El Coyote’s Marjorie Chrisoffersen, a Mormon, coughed up a scary $100, and has likely regretted it. Tomorrow, it could be you. There are lists. The Los Angeles Times publishes one such list. The follow the donors list is a compendium of people who gave for and against the Proposition. People have been microscopically investigating these lists looking for people to blame.
    The facts seem to indicate that blacks and Latinos made the crucial difference: “California’s black and Latino voters, who turned out in droves for Barack Obama, also provided key support in favor of the state’s same-sex marriage ban. Seven in 10 black voters backed a successful ballot measure to overturn the California Supreme Court’s May decision allowing same-sex marriage, according to exit polls for The Associated Press.”
    But, let’s talk these lists. They are public record, so each time, any contribution is made to any party or cause, it becomes public. It seems nothing could provoke wanting to be less involved in politics than this— should you be on the “wrong” side of an issue.
    We are angry. We take to the streets to make clear our frustration and opposition to our rights being taken away. And we scour these lists to find out who thought differently and contributed to that difference of opinion. The monsters have arrived on Maple street. While all this fingerpointing suggests a new vigor in gay politics, it also points to some paranoid, extremely undemocratic behavior. Elton John recently declared that he didn’t find the cause great for gay marriage when there is a legal partnership. He was called a an old queen, a wash-up, and many more personal insults, this of course by people who have contributed significantly less that Elton John to gay causes like AIDS research. We have become intolerant of anyone who holds an opinion different than ours. There is no discussion.

  36. Bruce says

    Call me very naive! I was bemoaning the fact that in my S. Texas town of 60,000, that the only movie theater is owned by cinemark, when I started to wonder who in my “red” state would have contributed to Prop. 8. I went to a site that listed contributions both for and against Prop. 8 and did a search for the state of Texas. I am horrified to see that proponents of Prop. 8 from Texas for the most part gave no less than $1,000 and many gave $5,000, or $10,000. There were vitually NO contributions for less than $1,000. When you go to the opponent of Prop. 8 contributors from Texas, there are $50, $100, $200 contributions, with very few big dollar contributions. My eyes have been opened! Obviously the average citizen from Texas and I suspect the rest of the country more than likely did NOT contribute to Prop. 8, but some organized “religion” was able to convince their followers to drain there pocket books. I am saddened and disgusted, but this does show what we are up against in our fight.

  37. Eric says


    I never said blacks are too stupid to think up things on their own. If that’s the way you feel, I’m sorry.

    I simply pointed out that she calls out the gay civil rights movement for not understanding the historical context of the black civil rights movement when she doesn’t even understand the historical context of the black civil rights movement. Her comments were inaccurate and counterproductive.

    By the way, I’m also a person of color. You can write me off as having the attitude of “most white gay men” but saying things like that just burns bridges with other communities of color and with whites.

  38. Bill says

    Andy has done a SPECTACULAR job covering prop 8.

    The segment after the Besen-Cannick debate was terrible. Luffa lover and all-around bigot Bill O’Reilly and block head Laura Ingrahm want there to be division because it suits there purposes. It is the only way Republicans can get back into power. Don’t let that happen.

    Boycott every company that donated to eliminating gay people’s RIGHT to get married.

    Eric, thank you.

    Paull R, don’t insult me or gay people. In 1970, a gay couple in Minnesota got married. They went to court to have it legally recognized (Baker v. Nelson). Marriage equality has also been led by GAY people.

    Gay couples need to make themselves visible from now until November 2010 when the repeal of prop 8 will be on the ballot. Do the outreach NOW!

  39. Derrick from Philly says

    OK, Shade Tea has been banned from Towleroad. At this moment, I can’t help but think of JOHNNY LANE, CHURCH-HILLY, OSCAR, OTTO and a few others whose posting names I can’t remember. They have made some of the nastiest comments about black people I’ve ever read, but I chalked it up to “freedom of speech.” JOHHNY LANE called the man who is now President Elect of the United States a “crack-smoking nigger”. OK.

    The behavior of white homosexual men last Wednesday night in Los Angeles taught me a lesson. I’ve been thinking about it all week long. To those white homosexuals black people were invisible until after the election results came in from Tuesday. We are always inivisible to them until we do something that they don’t like.

    The black gays that came out to protest Propositoin 8 were surprised to find themselves in the middle of a gay KKK rally. I can only imagine the initial surprise, fear, and then finally, the humiliation they must have felt…and then came the need to return the anger. I’ve imagined it all week since Barack Obama was elected.

    It’s been said all week that “Separate but Equal” is not acceptable on the issue of gay people’s civil rights, but it may be very acceptable (maybe necessary) for relations between black and white gays. Y’all Latinos and Asians figure out y’all own way to deal with the “rainbow” flag.

  40. mike says

    Say what you will, but the sister is RIGHT! White homos were running the No On 8 campaign and they blew it. They made NO effort to reach out to the Black or Latino communities. The sister was right again when she said that gays cannot take the support of Black or Latino church-goers for granted. The Black and Latino community are VERY VERY conservative when it comes to the issues of gay love or a woman’s right to choose. It is a wedge-issue that the white evangelicals are salivating to exploit. Be careful, gays and lesbians! Just because Obama won does NOT mean that we can all dance tra-la-la into the sunset, happy and secure that the world will now love us. NO! The world hates us BIG TIME. The only thing to counter that hate is Truth and Love. We need to get out there and challenge the hate-based and ignorance-based prejudices against us. We need to challenge the questionable “theology” of Mormonism and evangelicals. We need to educate, communicate and emphasize. Black folks see the gay movement as a largely WHITE phenomenon–privileged whites wanting to steal the civil-rights movement from Blacks and soil it with the “sin of homosexuality”. Wake up, gay boys and girls! Not everything can be won in the courts. We’ve got to get out into the real world and reach out to those who despise us and either change their minds or organize and vote them into oblivion.

  41. Zeke says

    This is an extremely long post but I think it is important for everyone to get a real picture of what we’re up against, in case anyone hasn’t already.

    I received this press release from the Florida Family Policy Council today. I got on their mailing list so that I could keep up with what they were up to. This press release is a call to action to their supporters to counter tomorrow’s peaceful demonstrations against Prop 8, Prop 102 and Amendment 2.

    Notice how they accuse the VICTIMS of discriminatory, exclusionary and mean-spirited constitutional amendments of being intolerant, anti-diversity and disrespectful while THEY, the ones who pushed these hateful, intolerant, discriminatory laws, play victim. This REALLY reminds me of how racist/segregationists in the 1960’s South complained about MLK and all those “nigras” stirrin’ up trouble down in Selma. I can even remember hearing my own racist parents talk about how it was the whites who were the victims of intolerance and hate from the blacks. ALL of these arguments sound terribly familiar to me.

    Also notice how the letter cleverly insinuates that we are attacking the sacred day of Thanksgiving by even considering holding a protest during the month of November. I guess we have officially been declared enemy combatants in Bill O’Reilly’s fantasyland “War on Christmas”.

    Here is the press release, cut and pasted, misspellings, bad grammar and all. Enjoy!

    From: Florida Family Policy Council
    Subject: Gay Leaders Plan a “National Day of Protest”

    TRUE COLORS – Gay Leaders Plan a “National Day of Protest” in Response to Marriage Victories Ready to “Rumble and Fight”

    While the rest of the country is planning for a national day of Thanksgiving in November, radical gay leaders around the nation are planning a “National Day of Protest” on Saturday, November 15, 2008, coming to a city near you.

    The self proclaimed champions of tolerance, diversity and respect for others have chosen a clutched fighting fist as their logo and are using phrases like “Ready to Rumble”, “Join the Impact” and “Fight the H8 (Hate)” as their slogans. These really winsome and civil minded slogans are sure to endear the American people even closer to the gay agenda and to their movement which is becoming increasingly intolerant, disorderly and aggressive.

    Why are they protesting? Well in a nutshell, they could not defeat any of the three marriage amendments which defined marriage as the union of one man and one woman. They are upset and “angry” (their words) because they could not persuade enough people in the marketplace of ideas in Florida , California and Arizona .

    So after failing at the ballot box, instead of examining their own arguments, assumptions, and internal contradictions they are going to “protest”, “rumble”, “impact” and “fight”.

    Intimidation and Hostility
    The real goal of this nationwide protest is to try and foster a wide spread culture of intimidation and hostility in the public square against anyone who thinks that marriage should remain as the union of one man and one woman.

    If you want to know the end game of our opponents it can be really boiled down to two goals. First, they want to normalize and promote all things “gay” in every nook and cranny of our society. Then second, they want to silence anyone who disagrees with them.

    There is just a small problem with the second part of this strategy: This is AMERICA ! Our opponent’s strategy runs directly afoul of the American political experience where the free exchange of ideas, robust debate, respecting people we disagree with, and accepting a final vote as an expression of the will of the people are what makes us great as a nation.

    The Irony of a Florida ProtestIn Florida, it appears there are protests being planned in Orlando , Miami , Fort Lauderdale , Tallahassee and Jacksonville . The idea that gay activists in Florida are now protesting because Amendment 2 passed is really ironic since we were disingenuously told in the campaign over and over again that this amendment has “nothing to do with gay marriage.”

    Remember? It was all about benefits, health care, domestic partnerships, senior citizens and unmarried persons. There was no “gay talk” anywhere to be found during the campaign. Apparently every gay activist in the state agreed to bite their tongue, drink the focus group tested “Kool-Aid” and in a conspiracy of silence not say a single word about “gay marriage”, “gay rights” or even “gay equality.”

    But now that opponents of Amendment 2 have lost at the ballot box, they have taken off their political masks and shown their true identities and their true colors.

    Boycotting Utah ?
    Apparently our opponents have also come up with another strategy to respond to their losses. Boycott Utah ! I am not making this up folks. The Associated Press reported only days after the election that gay activists were upset because the LDS church and Mormons in Utah gave major funding to the Proposition 8 campaign in California . So they are calling for a boycott of the entire state of Utah !

    Maybe while they are at it they can also boycott the other 45 states that have also defined marriage in their constitutions or statutorily. The LDS church should be applauded for their unprecedented financial support of marriage in California .

    Please make sure you thank a Mormon today for their heroic stand and the major part they played in California ‘s Proposition 8. And while you are at it, plan your next winter ski trip in Utah .

    The Political Problem is Not Homosexual Conduct
    From a political and a policy standpoint, homosexual behavior is not the problem per se. People with same sex attractions have been around since the beginning of time. And while there are very legitimate health and medical issues to address— as well as ministry concerns— many people with a same sex attraction manage to live quite and peaceful lives and are not looking to advertise and promote their sexual behavior to the whole world. We have even learned that there are a surprising number of homosexual men and women who do not even support the idea of same sex marriage.

    So the real political challenge we face is not homosexual activity per se. The real problem is this artificial socio-political construct that has been manufactured in the last couple of decades called “Gay”. The word “Gay” now represents an “in your face” approach, shove our agenda down your throat tactics and all the trappings of a dance-half-naked-in-the-streets-gay-pride-parade type agenda.

    And God forbid if you disagree with them in any way– no matter how loving, articulate and intelligent the basis for your objection– you will be shouted down and accused of being a “bigot”, a “hate monger”, a “gay basher” or worse. This is why someone can live as an active homosexual yet not be “gay-identified” with this new political movement. And out of fairness, homosexually active citizens who just want to be left alone need to be distinguished from the radical gay activists.

    The two groups are not synonymous. A Culture of Narcissists One of the many reasons our opponents have failed time and time again in the debate on marriage is that their rhetoric, their motive and tone is unapologetically “me” centered. At the heart of all the gay rights talk is a remarkably narcissistic streak.

    Devoid are discussions about what is best for children, and families, and the common good of society. Instead it is all about “me” and “my rights” and “my body”. This unbridled self-centered fixation will never win the day in the public square. This may also explain why they are resorting to this quasi-riot style of responding to their own political losses.

    So What Should Be Our Perspective On All This?
    First, we must affirm our opponent’s rights to peacefully assemble, speak freely and to demonstrate.

    Second, we must understand that the goal of these national “protests” is not to articulate some lofty ideas or further noble principles. Their goal is to create an intense climate of intimidation and hostility within the culture to try and deter people from supporting traditional marriage and other pro-family initiatives in the future.

    Since the three votes on November 5, many U.S. cities have seen vandalism, disorderly conduct, destruction of property and even violence. We will not be bullied into silence, indifference or inaction. No American citizen should be intimidated for exercising their constitutional right to vote.

    Let’s once again thank supporters of natrual marriage and encourage them to continue to be humble yet bold in standing with us for what is right, true and good. The future of our country and generations of children yet unborn are depending upon it.

    John Stemberger is an Orlando lawyer and served as the State Chairman of the Campaign in Florida.

    And as a side note. I’ve known Jasmyne personally. She is just as bitter and racist in person as her public rants would suggest. Her O’Reilly appearance was VERY mild! I’m surprised she hid her true colors so well for so long.

  42. tjc says


    In case I haven’t said it lately (and lately there’s been a lot of traffic here so it’s harder to see all the comments), I appreciate what you bring to the movement. I find your perspective enlightening and am very pleased you’re on our side.

    I’ve learned a lot from you on here, and I thank you for it.

  43. Brandon says

    MCNNYC: I appreciate what your r trying to do. So this is not intended as a knock, but Amaechi is actually British. (He was born in the states, but he grew up in England. He came back to the US to play BBall.)


  44. angrycitizen says

    Ladies and Gentlemen, we are at war. Prop 8 has initiated an all out war between the gay community and it’s supporters, and the straight community who are not inclusive. Not since the days of ACT UP demos have I seen this much reaction to an incident. I’ve seen our brothers and sisters at war: I was the principle District Court Commissioner who handled all the court hearings of those arrested at the protest at FDA headquarters in the 90’s. I saw the determination in the eyes of the protesters and have not seen it since then: until now. May this be the final war of independence for all of us. Victory in the 2008’s!

  45. The Gay Numbers says


    Andy: I do have a problem with you deleting the offensive language against white gays, but not from white gays who say nasty things about “all blacks” or who deliberately spin conversations into being gay versus black. This is your site. You can do what you want. But fairness and equity should, I hope, be a part of that for you.


    This is example of how the gay civil rights movement is behind other progressive causes. The fact is that you do not use a one size fit all communication when targetting anyone regardless of race. You should have communications strategies that take into account age, race, gender, religion, and economics. The message should match and respond to the communications style of the community and demographics you are seeking to reach.

  46. Eric says

    To those speaking out against Brown for representing the state, it is his job. He is the Attorney General of the State of California. He is the representative of the state in legal matters.

    The comparison to Eichmann is unfair and wrong.

  47. Brandon says

    Derrick: I understand how you feel. The night of the election some of my friends wanted to watch returns in a gay bar/restaurant that is relatively non-diverse. Ok. So, after McCain and JUST before Obama was about to speak, they started playing the theme song from Sanford & Son. A Harvard educated lawyer and folks are playing the theme song from a show about a black guy who owned a junkyard. That’s the association people make when the first black president-elect is about to speak? I was apoplectic. I HAD to leave and I actually missed his speech in real-time.

    And if that wasn’t enough, all this its black people’s fault on Prop 8, assumptions about what black people should and shouldn’t think, asking why black people don’t understand a vote for Prop 8 as discrimination, BUT NOT holding others to the same standard AFTER that Sanford & Son ish!!! ARGHH!

    Needless to say. It’s been a tough week.

    But, I ask that you do not lose hope. We, black gay people especially, CANNOT disengage. If we shut ourselves off from the larger gay community, who will help to craft strategies that are effective at explaining the importance of equality to all communities? Who will ensure that straight people see that gay people come in ALL colors? Our presence and strength is vital.

    And we will only achieve equality if all gay people, black & white, latino & asian, young & old. rich & poor, butch & femme, find common ground.

    At times like this, I think of What’s Going On by Marvin Gaye. Marvin wrote:

    Father, father
    We don’t need to escalate
    You see, war is not the answer
    For only LOVE can conquer hate
    You know we’ve got to find a way
    To bring some lovin’ here today.


  48. BB says

    I don’t know myself, but maybe it’s the case that No on 8 organizers and campaigners didn’t outreach enough to people of color. (While their very best TV ad, in my opinion, was the one narrated by Samuel L. Jackson, and made explicit mention of discrimination on the basis of race.) It’s always easy to be a Monday morning quarterback and say “we coulda shoulda done x, y, z.”

    At the same time: Did Ms. Cannick offer any help, any assistance, any support for the No on 8 campaign?

    We are not talking about the McDonald’s Corporation or something – we are talking about unavoidably loose organizing that got cobbled together spontaneously in response to a relatively sudden (mid-May 2008) California Supreme Court decision, followed quickly by a ballot initiative (June 2008) that produced Prop. 8.

    I think most people have NO CLUE how challenging all the circumstances were, and the forces No on 8 was up against (and we did really quite well compared to 2000).

    Anyway, point taken — maybe it’s entirely fair to say that more should have been done to outreach to and involve communities to color. But, isn’t that a two-way street? Did Ms. Cannick, in particular, step up to the plate and say, “I want to get involved to fight this atrocity, and I’ll mine all my connections to the communities in south LA, Inglewood, Compton, etc.?”

    I am afraid that I have to doubt that that was the case.

    Anyway, let’s move on. I love black peeps, white peeps, gay peeps, straight peeps, women, men, transgenders, etc. (While I’m having trouble finding love for any supporter of Prop. 8, and am more than happy to boycott Cinemark, eFax, Leatherby’s Ice Cream, Lassens Health Food, Templeton Funds, and anything associated with Howard Ahmanson, Jr., and
    and give no pass to the LDS Church, the Catholic Church, or any other pro-8 churches with parisioners of any color.)

    But Fighting Prop. 8 is indeed about LOVE. Love love love love love. Glorious, fabulous, wonderful LOVE.

    Let’s band together and LOVE.

    See you at the protests tomorrow.

  49. james says

    Yo! Folks I’m all for the boycotts. Money talks, cry babies walk. So to all you queers out there planning on seeing the new James Bond take note of the theater. In SF there’s only ONE non Cinemark theater showing it… the AMC on Van Ness. That’s where I’ll be going….

  50. Leland Frances says

    You’re a moron, Eric. Who’s holding a gun to Jerry Brown’s bald head? What would happen if Brown FOUND HIS CONSCIENCE–as Eichmann failed to do–and refused to defend this fascist law? Who’s gonna fire him? The governor? The Mormon Church?

    It was Eichmann’s “job” to devise effective plans to transport masses of Jews to the death camps. Brown’s “job” is different but no less immoral and ONE OF CHOICE. Anyone who CHOOSES to do something evil is evil himself.

  51. jay says

    as horrible as it may sound, yes to prop 8 has probably been the best thing for us. i have never seen us so galvanized and brought together to fight. it’s high time gay men put down the dumbells and picked up protesting signs. for far too long, we’ve been too complacent with the box straight society have always put us in. even my most vapid, party boy friends are actually talking less about gay cruises and more about politics. i love it!! keep it coming. less brunch, more protests is what i say!!!

  52. says

    Derrick and others, obviously I cant monitor every single comment on the blog – there are hundreds of thousands. That said, I’ve always encouraged people to email me if there is a particular commenter who has come on to a thread solely to flame others or is making heinous personal attacks. No doubt some have gone unchecked in the past and for that I apologize. On the topic of shadetea, to come on a blog and make personal attacks against the host that are false and unwarranted is just stupid. I encourage lively debate here, but I also encourage everyone to be civil.

  53. The Gay Numbers says


    I understood why you banned her. I agreed with the reasoning.

    I also understand you can not monitor everyone’s comments here.

    However, there are people who have come in here in the last couple of weeks who were out and out polite racists.

    As my great grandmother used to say, “They never use the n-word, but that was the intent.” Debate about race is fine. Arguments over what can be done to educate my people on issues is fine. Anger over actual yes votes by black people is fine.

    However, where I wish you would draw the line is where people will say , as I have seen some say here, “It’s the blacks fault.” This is what got Dan Savage on my bad sad until he toned it down. There is a way to talk about race, even when we absolutely disagree, that does not become a way to use race as a wedge.

    Let me give you an example: In an article you wrote about Nate Silver’s analysis of the CNN exit poll numbers in which Silver said the salient demographic was actually age. In the comments section, there were a few posters who kept writing and I am paraphrasing from memory, that it was still black people’s fault.

    I suppose my point is that although constructive dialogue is hard to define- it’s important nevertheless to thinka bout these issues as you balance the various things you are trying to do your blog.

  54. says

    TGN, Yes, I understand your point, and trust me, I do think about it. Unfortunately, because I’m the only person compiling the content on this site, if I were to comb the comments as well as I’d like I wouldn’t have enough time to put content on the site. In the future we are looking to have a more moderated comment section with some additional staff. As far as the race issues/gay racist issues go, I feel the Rev. Irene Monroe’s approach to the issue has been the most level-headed and compassionate I have heard. I’ll repeat it:

    “The present-day contentious debate between black and queer communities concerning what constitutes a legitimate civil rights issue and which group owns the right to use the term is both fueled and ignored by systemic efforts by our government that deliberately pits both groups against each other rather than upholding the 13th and 14th Amendments to the U.S. Constitution that affords each of these marginal groups their inalienable rights. While it is true that the white LGBTQ community needs to work on its racism, white privilege, and single-issue platform that thwart all efforts for coalition building with both straight and queer communities of color, the African-American community needs to work on its homophobia.”

    I feel that the way the right wing is pushing the gay vs Black meme is despicable and hateful. Within our own community it’s not constructive in the slightest. I am for outreach and unity, the separation of church and state, and exposing those who fund the removal and oppression of civil rights.

  55. Bermudez says

    You people really need to wake the fuck up.I have not once read a single post in regarding concern and out reach to those of us who are Latino,Black,and Asian. Are you hateful bigots that blind,there are more gays than just you hateful white bigots,wake up people.Im so tired of reading one hateful post after another back2back2back.You people are extremely ignorant and bigoted.CUT THE CRAP.

  56. Samir Skaaf says

    These so called gay rights, started I think with Bill Clinton by passing that lame Dont Ask Dont Tell Policy…..It was up to all you homogay people to shoot that down and then demanded full equality at that time. Why did you wait till 2008.

  57. Eric says

    With all due respect, Leland, fulfilling a duty to a act as chief counsel in state litigation is in no way comparable to organizing the logistics of exterminating a group of people.

    Jerry Brown will be associated with the state’s position even if he isn’t the one to deliver oral arguments. The only way he could sever any ties to this case is to resign as Attorney General.

    A private individual who sought to have the state invalidate current marriages between same-sex couples would likely have no cause of action to bring suit. It is likely that the only person who could bring that suit would be the Attorney General. He would be able to bring that suit on behalf of the people. Brown has already expressed his belief that the law would not be applied retroactively. He would thus likely not bring such a suit.

    Would you rather have a less gay-friendly Attorney General?

  58. Chris says

    Horray! Horray! on Dec 5 will be a Holiday for all to celebrate a day with no gays. A day to smile, thank god for the absense of them and dance in the streets.

  59. Eric says

    Also to everyone who keeps complaining about how white gays haven’t reached out to them, please remember that outreach works both ways.

    I’m Latino, and if I want to be engaged, I seek out those opportunities. It is sad and unfortunate that there are those that sit around waiting for the powers that be to approach them.

    Take the initiative and do work on your own. When I volunteered for No on 8, I told them that I was willing to phonebank and speak with Spanish-speaking voters. They were more than happy to use me in reaching out to Hispanic voters.

    These organizations are very busy. They must look at the big picture. Where you see gaps, volunteer to fill them.

    As people of color, we can’t expect for everyone to come to us. If we want to be included, we should demand to be included by directly inserting ourselves into the process, not by waiting to be asked.

  60. The Gay Numbers says


    You are missing the point regarding reaching out.

    The point is as Andy cites from the Reverend.

    Right now, we gays were asking people of color for their support. We did so without reaching out them, but instead, expecting that support. The Yes on 8, also predominantly white, did not make this mistake. That’s the point.

    You are right about what you are saying in someways. Coalition building is about both sides. Not one or the other.

    However, let me give you a real world example that happened back in 2004 that illustrates the problem.

    My alma mater has a very good gay and lesbian organization. I contacted them when the GOP attempted to suppress the Black vote in states like Ohio. My advice to them was to come out in support of African American voters right to vote. That historically were denied the vote and that this would produce good will. I added it could be made in a nonpartisan, but protect the vote kind of way.

    They refused because the GOP members of the organization barked it was not our places to get involved in other people’s issues.

    Incidentally, I made similar overtures to the Stonewall Democrats in New York. I never heard a word back from them. Not one.

    I contacted one other organization- their response- “this is not our issue.”

    The point is that it would great if humans were high minded, but they are not. That’s why we have a Constitution.

    However, when you got to go to someone for their vote- its not the highminded to which one must appeal. Its the lowest common denominator.

    That denominator here is that coalition building is to be there for others even when they are suspicious to build long term relationships.

    The goal of doing this is good will that we could bring into fights such as this.

    It is not that gay individuals have not participated in black civil rights. Its that we need to continue to be an open part of it. This is how we communicate, or at least, start that we are allies, not enemies.

    When the Jenna 6 happened, I was both stunned and happy to see the HRC come out in support of the kids involved.

    All I could think was “yes please more like this. This is how we build a coalition.”

    There are gay racists and black homophobes who do not want such a coalition to arise. The point is do we choose their pathway or our own?

    So when you write what you write – realize that some of us are trying on both sides. But its hard to block a tidalwave with a teaspoon.

  61. The Gay Numbers says


    By the way, there is a dynamic here that is not mentioned, but needs to be understood better. We as gay people are asking African-Americans for legitimacy. Essentially, when we speak of the civil rights movement- most Americans associated that rightly or wrongly with the African American struggle. That’s not saying that gays are not going through a modern movement. Its to say who needs whom more. That’s why ourside needs to do more to reach out more. We need more from them, than they need from us. That’s just the practicality of the coalition we are trying to buidl to change the laws.

  62. Bill says

    Thank you Eric for your thoughts and actions. I appreciate them. I too volunteered even though I don’t live in California. It is an issue that will affect gay people around the world.

  63. deibu76way says

    This is what I’ve really waited a long time to say, because I don’t know how to put it…

    I feel as angry as everybody else does. I donated my $100 against Prop 8, even though I live far away in South Carolina.

    In SC, an amendment defining “marriage” passed here in 2006 easily by a majority in all 46 counties. I live in the most liberal county where it passed by only 56%; in many counties it passed by over 80%. Even the concept of civil unions, separate but so-called “equal”, is FAR away – not even something we could fathom.

    My mayor lives a block away from me – he speaks at gay pride every year and makes sure that city council funds it. My entire neighborhood is completely liberal. But, we are part of a very,very conservative state.

    My question is, where was the rage when our state passed this amendment 2 years ago? Where is the rage now, against the state or Arkansas, which has passed anti-gay adoption laws? I know CA sets the tone for the nation, and Prop 8 reversed what the courts had rightfully ruled on…

    But there are so many of us, in places all over America. We have many battles to fight in addition to Prop 8. We want to know who is fighting for us? Because sometimes it seems like very few people are.

  64. BC says

    I get really worried about all of this. I really want to see us as a gay community try to do outreach to all other communities. I know – “They don’t outreach us”…well let us be the bigger ones and try. Most of us know someone, personally, who probably is against “gay marriage.” I, for one, am willing to sit with those people in my life and have a civil conversation with them. I love the peaceful marches. I love the idea of “Join the Impact.” But imagine the impact of one-on-one conversations. What if I got two people in my life to change their mind-then they talked each to two people and so on. Yeah, it may take a long time. But if our argument is to equate this to the civil rights movement, that took several, several decades. I do not believe our fight will take that long because the Black community has paved the way. Lets not attack any community – lets motivate the communities that back us to help make the changes.

  65. Brian says

    Just a cautionary note on the boycott list, as I’ve seen several comments about boycotting american express, american airlines and many other companies. I’m 99 percent sure these companies have nothing to do with proposition 8 or the mormon church. I’ve read in a few places that amex is owned by mormons, which I am positive is wrong, as it’s a big publicly traded company with no controlling shareholder. But since I do a fair amount of business with Amex I’ve been trying to check it out to see if I should cut the card. They certainly didn’t give anything to Prop 8, and they have a 100 equality score from the HRC. As far as I can tell, I think they (and a lot of other companies) got on the list from some website I found from 2002, following a Mormon company stock index. But I think the only criterion for being included is if you have a high ranking mormon employee. According to this site, the CFO of American Express is Mormon. I’ll leave it to you guys if you want to extend the boycott this far, but it seems to me if we have to boycott every company with a mormon employee, we’ll find it hard to eat or clothe ourselves. I agree with the posters asking for a comprehensive list of boycott targets, because I think this scattershot approach doesn’t really help. An obvious place to start is prop 8 contributors, but I personally thing mormon companies like Marriott should be on there too, I just think companies with mormon employees is going far afield and the effort will be severely diluted.

  66. Allan says

    The best reason to boycott Leatherby’s Ice Cream:

    Their product is disgusting. Awful. Blocks of ice with some artificial coloring and milk by-product.

    I always hated Leatherby’s and now I know why. They make their ice cream with hatred and contempt.

  67. says

    Interesting comments.

    I think people are making some interesting suggestions and contributing some well thought out ideals about where we go from here…

    i DO think much of jasmyne’s reactionary stance (which I don’t think is reactionary at all, given that I know MANY Black people who are asking the same questions like she is and are being very critical of Prop 8 pre and post nov 4th) is grounded in truth:

    IF the LGBT community is to be successful in ensuring that gay marriage is protected by law, you WILL need the support of ALL, latino/a, asian-asian american, native american, etc. and you do have to actively engage those communities by doing outreach…end of story. A good friend of mine, who is a black gay man, lives in Watts and really was bothered by the fact that NO outreach was done in his area and he even offered to do such outreach to a No on 8 organizer and was dismissed…i don’t know if that was a personal issue between the two of them or if it was something more…

    but, if you want black people and all people of color to get on board, rethinking how you outreach to them or even being more inclusive in over reaching goals for gay marriage becoming protected by law in california…you need EVERYONE’S voice.

    i think people should look at cannick’s views and articles and learn from them…really.

    additionally, how is this battle working into the larger long term goal of getting some kind of protection for gay marriage as law for ALL states? What about gay couples who are living in Ohio, ARkansas, etc.are No on 8 groups reaching out to activists in those states to start doing more state wide, grassroots organizing in those states? obviously, small incremental steps are needed…but, i think if you have a coordinated plan of action with additional states, and/or have additional states going to the supreme court over this, it only helps in the long run.

    also, how are you including LGBT supporters who ARE NOT in cali, massachusetts, connecticut, and new york? how do those of us who would have voted No on 8 without a second thought get involved in the struggle…other than contributing?

    what about more celeb outreach? whoopi goldberg is great…how about celebs like channing tatum, cam gigandet (twilight), kerry washington, rosario dawson, lucy liu, etc. doing No on 8 PSAs? getting YOung Hollywood involved would be a powerful way to get younger voters on board. PLus, since much of young hollywood is already progressive and doing grassroots work in other areas (environment, voting, etc) i’m sure many would lend their voices tot his.

    also, you can easily tailor No on 8 PSAs to specific communities (gabrielle union, kerry washington, etc. could be in No on 8 ads for the black community, etc.)

    How do we engage the more progressive parts of other religious communities (Muslim, Buddhist, Jehovah, etc.) in becoming our allies in this fight? Clearly, the Mormon church supported the passing of Prop 8…are we doing any outreach with lgbt no on 8 supporters who aren’t mormon, but are muslim, buddhist, etc. just wondering.

    there is so MUCH to do…but, i hope that we are all ready and willing to get the grassroots work started and going…

    and, i do think in order for EVERYONE to get on board, dialoguing across communities (LGBT, Black, Latino/a, etc.) and realizing and understanding what makes us different and similar (LGBT people of color, etc.) and how we need EACH OTHER to be on the same page is also key to this.

    as for gay rights and civil ME its the same thing…but, not everyone is on the same page. parsing both movements to suit individual agendas or revising the histories of either just to suit individual/organizational needs does NOTHING to help matters.

    Seeing what both movements have in common and working towards a COMMON GOAL, does help matters.

    just my thoughts…

  68. says

    @ DEIBU76WAYA:
    People are up in arms right now for two main reasons: California is the largest state and considered a bellwether for the nation. The right was in-place and then taken away. The legislature had passed marriage equality TWICE. The gay community came so far, only to be smacked down by lies, religion, and a few percentage points. I live in Washington State, which is at times progressive but also has a DOMA law that got little national attention, but Prop 8 matters here big time.

    The second reason, I believe, is that this is all in the context of an Obama win. While we want to celebrate, there’s this big thorn in our side and it’s making it hard to dance.

    You know I love you, but more than that, I want you to know that there are many white homos who are not racist, many who work to eliminate vestigial racisim within themselves, and many who fight racism around them. And I also thank you for bringing your sage perspective to Towle Rd. Peace and Love.

  69. says

    also, how are you including LGBT supporters who ARE NOT in cali, massachusetts, connecticut, and new york? how do those of us who would have voted No on 8 without a second thought get involved in the struggle…other than contributing?

    i mean to add other than contributing money…

  70. Name Withheld says

    The Catholics are getting off way too easy. In Connecticut alone, the KOC donated 1.4 million to the yes on 8 campaign. People who donate to this “charity” should be aware of where there money is going. 1.4 million could have fed a lot of hungry children or put a warm coat on the backs of the needy during the cold New England winter.

    Knights Of Columbus HeadquartersSupport$1,000,000.00CTNew Haven8/14/08Details
    Knights Of Columbus HeadquartersSupport$250,000.00CTNew Haven1/30/08Details
    Knights Of Columbus HeadquartersSupport$150,000.00CTNew Haven10/20/08Details

  71. bilge says

    So the guy who owns the ice cream shop is shocked that people are up in arms because he gave thousands of dollars to make them second class citizens in the constitution. He deserves a boycott for utter stupidity. To the mattresses.

  72. TheCitizen says

    I wish you guys well. Perhaps I may march tommorrow. I doubt it though. I know my rights are on the line too, but this entire gay vs black conflict has left a nasty taste in my mouth and I’m left dispassionate. Hopefully one day soon I’ll find the energy to care again.

  73. says

    Citizen, that’s just one of countless lame excuses I’ve read on Facebook to not get out and support the movement today. I think people just need to come clean with the fact that they are either lazy or just couldn’t be bothered. That’s fine, we’ll pick up the torch for your future rights…you can say thank you. The last time I checked, gay people weren’t all white and it is incumbent of people of color to be the leaders reaching out to their communities to help all us unite behind a single cause. After all, who is going to better initiate the dialogue with the leaders in their community? A white person they don’t know shit from shinola? I find it very difficult to believe that the No on Prop8 folks wouldn’t welcome anyone from the Black, Hispanic or Asian communities with open arms if it they could help them expand their efforts. All I know is that I’m going to get my disabled white ass along with my Mexican partner of eight years out to the Georgia State Capitol today to help support our cause. If you really believed in it, you would too.

  74. says

    PLEASE keep your eyes on the ball, and don’t let your sights get diverted… THE ENEMY IS ORGANIZED RELIGION, period. If certain races and demographics vote against our rights, it is because of their religious views that we are sinners. Religion has no place in a civil rights debate. And any church that diverts funds to politics instead of to good-will must in turn lose their tax-free status.
    Religion is the core root of our oppression.
    Tax the Mormons!

  75. Landis says

    Sorry Derrick. I disagree with you. I think that this whole black victimization is way too much. I am not white, so I can say that from a non-white perspective.

    I do not condone racist attitudes. I think that if black people voted the way they did, it is hard to not have backlash. It’s like having it both ways, and that doesn’t happen. So I would ask you to suck it up and focus on the larger issue.

    The separation of church needs to happen.

    American people need a unbiased, non-religious education system that teach them reality rather than faith based trash.

  76. Fisting says

    That poster is silly. It is a rip off of a soviet propaganda poster, or a black power salute. What does an overly muscled fist have to do with gay marriage? That guys is an opportunistic parasite with an overrated sense of artistic entitlement.

  77. sacgary says

    American Revolution History
    -as told by me

    Between the late 1600’s and the Declaration of Independence in 1776, our forefathers grew tired of the mistreatment by England. The British government was completely controlled by the domineering, prejudiced, discriminatory and hateful Church of England.

    Well we didn’t really like that much so we started peaceful demonstrations, protests and started civil disobedience tactics. This pissed off the British so they sent troops to America to put us in check. We said “Look man this shit ain’t going to cut it. We hate your oppressive Church and your government and we ain’t paying you shit. Get out of our country!” Then in 1773 we threw a shitload of tea into the harbor. Needless to say that didn’t go over well with the British so in 1774 they closed the Port of Boston and made up a bunch more repressive laws that really pissed us off.

    In 1775 we had enough and kicked their ass in the Battles of Lexington, Fort Ticonderoga and Concord, the first battles of the war. Later that same year the British were really embarrassed that such a small band of rebels could make them look so bad and so they sent reinforcements and REALLY kicked our asses good at the Battle of Bunker Hill, which really didn’t happen entirely at Bunker Hill it was just called that because of the bunkers we built on Breed’s Hill. The British lost 1,150 men, out of 2,500 engaged, and 92 officers but won the battle.

    In 1776 we said “This really sucks!” and drafted the Declaration of Independence. We sent that to the King and said “Look here King we’re not giving up without a fight so can’t we all just get along? You give us independence and we will sell you stuff that you need and we will both make a butt load of money!” The King laughed at us and told our delegation to get out. We snuck out the back door and down the alley cause the King was beside himself with being pissed off and tried to kill our delegates. Since we were better at sneaking than his guys were we got away! That really put his panties in a wad so he sent more troops to America and really started f-ing with us hard.

    After we got our butts handed to us on a platter at Bunker Hill, we told this guy George Washington to come over here and take charge of these troops and let’s kick some British butt! Well he didn’t do so well at first and lost the Battle of Long Island and the white wigs ended up with New York.

    Then George had a vision or something and said “Hey I got an idea! Let’s sneak across the Delaware when they ain’t looking and take New Jersey!” Now Americans were good at sneaking so that’s what we did and won the Battles of Trenton and Princeton!

    So in 1777 the British decided it was time we stopped making them look like pussies and they kicked our ass again and took Philadelphia. Our Continental Congress saw em coming and skedaddled outta Pennsylvania just in time. Well we said “Oh Yeah? Watch this!” and took back New York at Saratoga. For the rest of the year we traded victories and defeats with them and George’s army was really whittled down by winter and harsh conditions from 17,000 to just a few hundred. There was a mutiny and he had to hang a couple to keep the rest in line. After winter he got a bunch more troops and had about 10,000.

    Now all this time the French had been watching what was going on and were still trying to trade with us in the back door, but the British started f-ing with them too. In 1778 we got another bright idea and said “Hey France, come help us with these bastards and we can trade stuff you need and we can both make a butt load of money… oh and you can kick the shit outta the British!” Now that sounded real good to the French and they went to their trading partners the Spanish and got them on board too. Then we REALLY started giving the tea totalers hemorrhoids!

    We decided to give the British one more try at peace and sent a delegation to the King offering him to quit kicking his ass if he would grant us independence and a few other things we wanted. The English Parliament was seeing how much money the war was costing and how bad they were starting to look in front of the rest of the world so they put the thumb on the King and said “Take their offer man!”

    Well the King didn’t like being told what to do so he told the American delegation that they could have all the other stuff they wanted but not independence. We pointed our fingers at our asses as we walked out the door and then ran like Hell back to America so they couldn’t catch us. Then they beat the Hell out of us at Savannah, Georgia in late 1778. Then for good measure in 1780 took Charleston South Carolina and got control of the South.

    In 1781 we finally got our shit together with the French and the Spanish, got a little help from the Dutch and the Russians and some others and took back North, South Carolina and Georgia. This is about when the Loyalists in America, (those people who were Americans but sympathetic to the British), looked around and thought “Wow this isn’t the way we had envisioned this!” They decided to get out of Dodge while the getting was good and about 100,000 of them headed north to Canada.

    The year of 1781 saw the final major military episode of the American Revolution. The French and American forces over a vast region of North America and the West Indies: a French army in Rhode Island under the comte de Rochambeau, an American army outside New York City under Gen. George Washington, an assortment of American regulars and militia in Virginia under the Marquis de Lafayette, a small French naval squadron at Newport under the comte de Barras, and a formidable French fleet in the West Indies under the comte de Grasse who together kicked major simultaneous ass. Seeing he was going to die, General Cornwallis and the British surrendered at Yorktown. There were a few other small battles and we didn’t lose any more so they mostly just surrendered or stole our sneaking tricks and went to Canada in the night.

    Well in 1783 we sauntered over to the King and said “Give us our Independence now or we are going to have France invade England and make you eat Foi Gras!” Since they were already fighting on several other fronts against us, the French, the Spanish and every other country that could put together an army and wanted a piece of the King’s ass, he finally gave in and gave us independence and the other stuff too.

    Well this kinda pissed off France and they were upset because we made an agreement with the British without checking with the French first. So America fresh off of a victory at the King of England’s place said; “You saw what we did to them do you really want us to get Spain and the rest of the already pissed off world and come to France and kick your ass and force you to eat hamburgers?” Well they didn’t want that so they looked at each other and said “Hey let them have their country and we will go and have our own revolution and get rid of that snooty King of France!” So we signed the Treaty of Paris with the French and the British and with Spain and the French went and had the French Revolution.

    Now in 1787 the Constitution of the United States was signed by the delegates of the Constitutional Convention but not all of the founding fathers were happy with it. Ben Franklin and a few of his buddies formed the Anti Federalists and started protesting and threatening another war because the original Constitution looked too much like the government they had just gotten rid off. For the next 2 years they and the Federalists talked, argued, fought and got drunk together and eventually agreed that they needed to add The Bill of Rights and the original 10 Amendments (that started out as 12) to the Constitution.

    In 1789 everybody was on the same page and the Constitution of the United States was ratified by 9 of the then 13 States and became effective. Now today, 219 years later in the year 2008, we are fighting the same domineering church. Different names but the same oppression against minorities.

    “Hey you guys! Remember the first revolution? Want us to do it again?” This time we can call it the . . . RAINBOW REVOLUTION!!

  78. Godfrey says

    A correction to President-Elect Obama’s position:

    The President-Elect did not support Prop 8 and personally does not oppose the right of individuals to love who they want or enter into a committed legal relationship.

    Trust me; in a quiet private moment, he will tell you he supports gay marriage-but it is a fight that the LGBT community needs to bring to a national level before he can step in!

  79. Chord says

    Where is the HRC on all this? Seriously, where are our leaders – the people who can stand up and bring us all together on this? Why is Dan Savage the only one making the rounds to speak on this? The HRC should stop working on pretty logos and start doing something! If it’s not the HRC fine, but we need someone. These loosely knit boycotts and protests need to mean something and go somewhere. We need action not reaction.

  80. Wheezy says

    @ Derrick from Philly,

    I think you should know that those commenters you mentioned (JOHNNY LANE, CHURCH-HILLY, OSCAR, OTTO, ShadeTea) are all bitter McCain-supporter Trolls who’ve been leaving their shit all over Queerty (and a lot of other GLBTQ sites) for months pre-election. Right up until Japhy Grant took over as editor of Queerty they tried to stir up anti-Obama support. They are slime that oozed over from that Free Republic site and they are not GLBTQ, they are just trying to divide and conquer TWO minority groups.

  81. says

    Guys, Jasmynne is on our side. She has a different take on the situation. I was so impressed by her standing up for another point of view that I asked her if I could repost her story for the L.A. Times on my blog. She was very gracious and said yes. I myself took awhile to come around because I thought the No ON 8 leaders were a bunch of arrogant white guys who just assumed they didn’t have to do outreach to communities outside of their own.

    I’m personally glad 8 passed because I am so proud and impressed by the grassroots effort that has sprung up to demand our rights back. I’m so sorry for the couples in limbo but your marriages will be the rock that the civil rights of us all are built on.

    I salute you.

    We are having a rally here in Las Vegas at 2pm at the LGBT center 953 E Sahara at the Commercial Center. If you a local or visitor come join us for a celebration of love.

    Andy, I love your blog, but, lately there seems to be a suppression of different ideas. I hope you encourage people to be aware and respectful of other points of view. I myself may agree with you 99% of the time but I feel we should listen to all the diverse opinions in our community.

    I love all of you! This is our “Selma” moment, let’s not waste it.

    Here’s the speech I wrote for today here in Vegas. If anyone wants to use it for anything , feel free.


    The opening of the Declaration of Independence written by Thomas Jefferson in 1776, states as follows:
    “ We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.



    1 : the quality or state of being equal: like in quality, nature, or status c: like for each member of a group, class, or society



















































    Gay & Lesbian Community Center

    953 E Sahara Ave # B31
    Las Vegas, NV 89104
    (702) 733-9800


  82. says

    The gays that yelled racial slurs are idiots and in the wrong. I’ve read alot about reaching out to mnorities which is good . Why could minority communities (gay or otherwise) rise up as leaders in their own right?

  83. TheCitizen says

    Keith said
    “Citizen, that’s just one of countless lame excuses I’ve read on Facebook to not get out and support the movement today.”

    Its fine you feel that way. I’m not holding grudges against anyone but I can’t help feeling completely drained and apathetic.

  84. says

    I came out and supported the movement today and was very proud to do so.

    Having said that, I finally had the time to read ALL of the posts on this topic this evening.

    It brought back to mind the experience that I had in Denver during the convention.

    I was at the Stonewall conference and after 30mins got up and left.


    Because in a room of hundreds of people, I saw very few people of color and women. As I looked around the room I saw the blandest most straight laced group of sorta Young Repub..oops, white guys.

    I was bored shitless. I left and went on my free bike to take pictures. At no point did anyone smile or extend a hand to me even though I am the ONLY ELECTED gay delegate from my state (not affirmative actioned in, I had to get up at our convention and give a speech and get elected) and I had a front page story done on me on opening day.

    I didn’t think I was Janet Jackson or anything, but, I found it strange that no one made any effort to find out who the tall black guy with the State Delegate cowboy hat was.

    When I went up to people to introduce myself I got mostly chills. I don’t think it was racism. I just don’t think white gay guys think anyone not like them could possibly of interest to them. I am truly sorry for the generalization, but, I bet a lot of colored people here feel that way whether they say it or not.

    Even here in Vegas it’s weird how people have heard of me and seek me out online because I’m known as getting these organized and done, they are shocked to find out that I’m me. And it’s sorta of funny because they say, “from your writing and the way you sounded on the phone , well, I never thought…”. Once again, it’s not racism, I don’t know what to call it.

    Now, I don’t believe in bitching without offering a solution.

    What can we do to fix this black (colored folk, remember Hispanics didn’t exactly vote against 8 either and they and Asians get completely left out of the discussion) white divide?

    Let’s start a dialogue. Let’s figure this thing out. It’s not the end of the world, if we just sit around the electric bonfire and talk and plan, we can fix this and be stronger for it.

    Hey Andy, you got time to host an online group on this subject? I’ll help and I’m sure lots of other people here (the vast majority of whom are very bright)would help out as well.

  85. jeffrey says

    The deplorable racist things that were said at a protest were uttered by idiots. A few individuals who do not represent most gay white people at all. Does anyone have any documentation of this? It feels like some very isolated incidents have been blown way out of proportion. I have been to many protests now and have seen nothing of the sort. To slime all the protesters at these rallies and to infer that most white gays are racist is absurd. And to decide not to attend any rallies because of these incidents is also absurd. There are plenty of AA protesters who are attending and would love to have you join them, as we all would.
    Maybe the No on 8 campaign should have done more outreach but Eric was right when he said that it is up to all of us as individuals to ask what we can do to help rather than wait for an engraved invitation.
    Nobody came around in a limo and whisked me away to the center to do phone banks. I did some research, found the Equality California website and got my butt over there to help. I am sure anyone could have done the same thing whatever their skin color. And I was making phone calls to AA registered voters. Doesn’t that count as outreach??
    Cannick’s ranting is so offensive. I don’t care how busy you are trying to take care of your own. Or even if you feel “unwelcome” (whether it’s true or not) in the so-called white priviledged gay community. You don’t walk into a voting both and check a box to take a minority group’s civil rights away, ESPECIALLY when your OWN minority group has fought for the same civil rights. And I don’t think we need to have suffered as much as AAs in order to legitimately compare our struggle for civil rights to theirs. There are a LOT of similarities and pointing them out does not “diminish” the AA suffering any more than same-sex marriage “diminishes” hetero marriage.
    I know the black community was not solely responsible for prop 8 passing. But the fact that such a high percentage of AA voters (or voters from any minority group) did vote ‘yes’ is incomprehensible to me. And even though I am really saddened by this shameful lack of empathy for our cause, I would NEVER do such a thing to them.
    Also, it’s often reported that so many AAs are on the DL. If that is really true, then maybe if more AA gays and lesbians would come out to their families and friends and volunteer to do that vital outreach it would go a long way to paving the road to understanding that seems necessary to win over AA voters. I am detecting so much resentment from the Black community that it seems only logical that people who are already uncomfortable with the subject of homosexuality probably are going to be more receptive to listening to gays and lesbians from their own community rather than from ‘elite’ white gays.
    The real problem, though, is that we are arguing how to win the hearts and minds of voters for the next round when that is not how we are going to win this fight. We will win it in the courts, and through legislation. If previous struggles for civil rights had been put to a vote of the people we wouldn’t have had voting rights for women or civil rights for people of color for decades longer than it actually took.
    These battles are always won first in the courts and then hearts and minds follow.

  86. says

    “But the fact that such a high percentage of AA voters (or voters from any minority group) did vote ‘yes’ is incomprehensible to me. And even though I am really saddened by this shameful lack of empathy for our cause, I would NEVER do such a thing to them.
    Also, it’s often reported that so many AAs are on the DL. If that is really true, then maybe if more AA gays and lesbians would come out to their families and friends and volunteer to do that vital outreach it would go a long way to paving the road to understanding that seems necessary to win over AA voters.”

    Jeffrey, I son’t know you and mean you ans mean you know harm but yu’re way of thinking is exactly the problem You have no concept of cultures other than your own. That whole “if they would just out themselves” thing doesn’t fly in most ethnic cultures. Just like we don’t understand alot of the family dynamics you have (I don’t know a single black, latin, or asian who would dare talk back to their mother) you don’t get us either. nd honestly I can’t imagine how to explain it to you.

  87. Jeffrey says

    No, Derek, I don’t get it. I’ll freely admit I don’t really know what it is like to grow up as a person of color. But to say I have “no concept” of cultures other than my own is quite a stretch. You don’t know my educational background nor the circles I travel in.
    So, no, I don’t know your life. But if you think talking to my Republican, Baptist Mother is easy, well…then you are right when you say you don’t know my life.
    And yet I came out to my mother anyway because I believe I have no other choice if I want to live my life with dignity.

    Really? you “don’t know a single black, latin, or asian who would dare talk back to their mother’? Then I think you must lead a very isolated life. I have friends from all of these groups who HAVE come out to their families and who talk back to their moms about all sorts of things. I think to generalize that NO minorities talk back to their mothers is, well… if I had said that I would expect to be called a racist. And with good reason.
    You seem to be saying that AAs don’t really trust white people because we can’t understand your lives. They see the gay marriage issue as a white privilige thing. If you are really saying that GLBT AAs can’t come out of the closet, then you are saying it is ENTIRELY up to GLBT white people to sway the AA community to endorse gay civil rights. Well then, I don’t think the lack of ‘outreach’ from GAY rights organizations is the real problem. That is quite an abdication of responsiblity.
    And I don’t see us making much progress without your help.
    And I would still like someone to give me a good answer how someone from an oppressed
    minority group who has fought for the SAME RIGHT to marry the person they loved, could walk into a voting booth and with the stroke of a pen trample on the rights of another human being.

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