Nine Years Later

  Tt

Hard to believe but it's been nine whole years.

Tribute services were held this morning at Ground Zero, the Pentagon, and Shanksville, Pennsylvania. Next year, on the 10th anniversary of the attacks, a memorial will open honoring those killed on 9/11 and in the 1993 bombing of the towers at Ground Zero.

A review of the elaborate memorial:

The most important sight at ground zero now is Michael Arad’s emerging memorial. The shells of two giant pools are 30 feet deep and are set almost exactly in the places where the towers once were.

The huge waterfalls around the sides, the inscribed names of victims and the plaza are promised by the 10th anniversary next year. But two 70-foot tridents that were once at the base of the twin towers were installed last week. The museum will be built around them by 2012. And the first 16 of 416 white swamp oaks were planted on the eight-acre surface.

Surrounding that memorial will be a ring of commercial towers — eventually to be filled with workers, commuters, shoppers, tourists, the full cacophony of New York City. The tallest skyscraper is now a third of the way up. The developer Larry Silverstein has one of his skyscrapers taking shape — this one by the Japanese architect Fumihiko Maki. The bases of two more are finally beyond the planning stage.

It's too bad some people are more concerned with burning Korans rather than remembering the fallen in a less hateful way. By the way, Terry Jones has decided to call off the Koran burning for good but now The Westbore Baptist Church plans to burn at least one copy of the book today.

Comments

  1. Scott Rose says

    I think there is a valid concern about Islam’s attitude towards gay people. But, I also think part of the problem is that gay people never make these concerns known to Islamic leaders. Imam Rauf, to cite one prominent one, has never, ever said a word to Islamic nations, telling them they must respect the human rights of gay people. In his native Kuwait today, clerics appear on TV saying that homosexuals should either be thrown off tall buildings or rounded up into public plazas and flogged and tortured to serve as a lesson to others. These people will quote the Hadith that says of homosexuals “Kill the one that does it and the one it is done to.” I’m placing a link to such a TV segment below. This kind of hate speech against gays approved by Muslims society is objectively considered a much graver violation of people’s rights than is a threatened Koran burning, yet we never hear about it. To let this go as if it were nothing, as if it were an unimportant matter, is to accept that gays count for less than other human beings in the international community.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzXXi7BCDOE&feature=related

  2. says

    I’m with you Max. I will never forget watching innocent people lose their lives.

    “It’s too bad that some people are more concerned” with defending the right of muslims to build the [ground zero] Mosque “rather than remembering the fallen in a” more considerate and patriotic “way.”

  3. Tone says

    Today is a day to memorialize those who died. Let the divisiveness of politics and ideology prevail another day. Today is a day to mourn and remember. And to show some respect.

  4. busytimmy says

    A major problem is that most folks are completely unaware of the differences in the various branches of Islam. Sufis were not responsible for 9/11. Wahhabi yes (i.e. Saudi Arabia). These distinctions are incredibly important. I think it would be like blaming the Quakers for the inquisition.

  5. Tranquilo says

    @ Max and ♂

    I will never forget that 3000+ people died on that day, Christians, Muslims, Jews, atheists, etc.

    I will also never forget that politicians and jingoistic idiots have used that day ever since to justify war and bigotry. I will never forget the ten of thousands of Iraqis and Americans that have died because Bush knew that people were too stupid to discern between the monsters who did this, and the millions of Muslims who did not.

  6. topher says

    I was watching an interview yesterday of an ex-muslim woman, and how she described when she first encountered the christian faith and how loving and tolerant and how good it was.
    Seriously? How loving they’ve been to jews throughout history? to black people? or to women? or gays? (not to mention centuries of inquisition and crusades and the like) How tolerant are those christian folks in middle america with their ‘god hates fags’ and ‘america is doomed’, and now with this other folk wanting to burn Qurans? (the argument he had on that Anderson Cooper interview was brilliant — that it was a corrupt satanic book because it didn’t recognize JC as their savior. Not even worth trying to teach people like that that there are all sorts of religions that worship all sorts of fairies, so yeah, not all books have to worship his own personal devotion and not all are evil because they don’t)

    So whatever, what’s my point? I think I had one.
    So yeah. Twenty nutbags did this on the name of islam. That is correct. That’s all there is to it — twenty nutbags. It’s not THE MUSLIMS. Why can’t people understand that? If it had been 20 christian nutbags, I’m sure 99% of christians (or any thinking person) without skipping a beat would have acknowledged that there 20 people were nuts and not christian in any way, and that would be that –there would be no smearing of the christian faith because of this. Why the hell is the same logic not applied to islam?

    Anyway. We’d sure be better off without these grown-up bedtime stories of fairies and angels and demigods to justify our acting on our animal instincts and violence all the time.

  7. Max says

    To Tranquilo and Topher, I repeat: “No amount of politically correct brainwashing or moral equivalency arguments will ever change that.”

    I pre-empted you both.

  8. TANK says

    Oh wow, this thread’s been hijacked by moonbats. You people should really consider saving the crazy stupid for joemygod–they love your type over there. Have you hugged a muslim today?

  9. TANK says

    Islamophobia isn’t bigotry. Islam is a system of beliefs, and all beliefs aren’t equal and can be criticized. Those who affirm it are also obligated to affirm rick’s warren’s term “christophophobia”…just because you don’t like certain speech doesn’t mean it’s not justified. And given the amount of harm that islam causes worldwide, harsh criticism of that faith is more than justified.

    And really…do you actually believe that islamic terrorists are insane? Do you believe that fundamentalists who, if anything, are more closely aligned with the most likely interpretation of their holy books, are insane? That’s a lot of crazy people in the world…and especially in america…lots of mentally disturbed people (most of the country, in fact).

    It’s not the individuals–it’s the faith. This is largely a software issue.

  10. walter says

    now westboro wants to burn the koran. he feels that jones has out crazied them and gotten more publicity.so they want their turn. if this is what christianity is about . it is frightning. people talk about hate by islamits . if religion would go away the world would be a better place. hate spread in the name of god how pathetic.

  11. Brad says

    Let’s move on. Reliving horrible events and stoking up grief and hate isn’t healthy. Very little good has come of it; two wars, religious intolerance and bigotry on all sides, thousands upon thousands of lives ended and ruined. I think the victims of 9/11 would want their deaths to be remembered in such a way that all people can live together and tolerate each other. Hate, stupidity and bigotry lead to the 9/11 attacks. Perpetuating that same hate, stupidity, bigotry and revenge does nothing for anyone and is a poor remembrance of those who died.

  12. wtf says

    What a bunch of assholes you ALL are. Islam, Christianity, a rose by any other name. THEY ARE THEY SAME. THEY BOTH TEACH HATRED AND VIOLENCE. Get a fucking clue. 3000 people? In Christian terms that’s like a fucking drop of the blood of christ in the motherfucking bucket.

    For those of you who continue to argue that all Muslims are evil and bad, I wonder how you can defend the asshole Christians who constantly try to oppress us at every turn? Which evil is better? Is that really the fucking argument? How about NEITHER?

    Use your fucking head for something other than a goddamn hat stand and get REAL.

  13. TANK says

    Once again, you worthless fucking primitive, until honor killings become a regular feature of christianity, they are not comparable in terms of the damage they cause. Islam is a much greater threat to geopolitical stability than christianity is, and this is an objective fact.

  14. Rafael says

    Why is everybody running around afraid of Islam extremist? All I hear in the news is how we should be afraid of retribution, it is really pathetic. When 9/11 happened we as a Nation swore we would never forget. We swore to defend our values and to be fearless in the midst of uncertainty. Why are we now so afraid?

  15. Max says

    WTF, your argument is as ignorant as it is predictable. Not all religions are the same. Christianity is better than Islam, especially concerning LGBT rights.

    Christ did not teach violence. Mohammed did.

    Same-sex marriages are performed in Argentina, Belgium, Canada, Iceland, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, as well as parts of the U.S. and Mexico. These are all Christian-majority nations.

    Same-sex marriages are recognized in Israel. This is a Jewish-majority nation.

    Same-sex marriages are being considered in Nepal. This is a Hindu-majority nation.

    Homosexuality is punishable by death in Iran, Mauritania, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Yemen, and United Arab Emirates. These are all Muslim-majority nations. (Nigeria is Muslim-majority in the North, where homosexuality is punishable by death).

  16. dramaticartchild says

    Since when did the term “politically correct” get hijacked by teabagger/libertarian/hard right types? I swear they’re the only people that use it, and they usually aim it at the “mincing pansy liberals” they love to hate so much.Please, desist. You’ll all wake up in the morning and look in the mirror and La Coulter will be staring back at you. For your own safety, please.
    Yeah, Islam has a screwed up history and is pretty damn violent right now. Christianity was pretty damn violent from the moment Constantine “converted” in the 4th century, up through the suppression of Paganism and Christian heresies in the late 4th-7th centuries, and then during the Crusades in the High Middle Ages,the Inquisition, the Wars of Religion in the 16th and 17th centuries, etc, etc, etc. As of the 20th century much of it’s fire seems to have gone out as the West has come to it’s senses (excepting Genocides, World Wars, etc, etc, etc). However, with the rise of the Modern West, the Islamic East has experienced a real downswing in it’s fortunes. . .no more Caliphates ruling huge swathes of The Middle East and North Africa, no more Ottoman Empire, most of the Islamic pop of the world living in the 3rd world nations, etc. So now THEY’RE going apeshit. I swear it’s cyclical. I wonder what the next “big revelatory religion” is going to be. It’s been 1300 years since the last one. . .think we’re about due for a new tirade of holier than thous sweeping away thousands of years of tradition because their imaginary friends in the sky told them to.

  17. says

    Wow. The enemy of gay people is not Islam. It is fundamentalist bigots who cloak their hatred of us in Islamic terms. Just like the fundamentalist bigots who cloak their hatred of us in Christianity.

    The Ugandans backing the kill the gays (and those who like them) bill are mostly Christians. Yes, Christ may not have taught violence, but, to paraphrase Gandhi, Christians are not Christ, and many just love to pick and choose passages from the Old Testament which definitely did teach violence.

    Dramaticartchild is right. What goes around comes around in the violence world, and the antigay world as well. Read some Boswell. There were periods in the Middle Ages when the Christian West was hell for gay people (witch hunts, persecution, burning at the stake), meanwhile there were times in Moorish Spain or the Ottoman Empire were havens for gay people.

    Blah blah blah moral equivalence, but when you fall into the trap of us / them like this, YOU are the ones who become like them, intolerant and hating and blind.

    Most New Yorkers and many of the victims’ families did not want this. It’s the jingoistic kneejerk crap that I’m reading over at the wingnutdaily, where they think all Muslims are at war with us. It just is not true.

  18. Max says

    KevinVT says “The enemy of gay people is not Islam,” and then proceeds to bash Christianity. Because you can’t EVER say anything bad about Islam without some moonbat verbally assaulting Christianity (and/or Judaism) in response.

    Gee Kevin, I don’t know what parallel universe you live in, but Islam is, indeed, an enemy of gay people (even if every single individual Muslim obviously isn’t). Did you know that Muslims now attack gays in Amsterdam so often that there was a protest against the violence there last week? Imams routinely state that gays should be put to death – even on television.

    Islam is also the enemy of free speech, religious tolerance, and gender equality.

    Wake up, dude. Your ignorance is as dangerous as their violence.

  19. Tranquilo says

    @dramtcard. 9/11 got hijacked on 9/12. Cheney thought it was Christmas come early, and the right has been running hard with it ever since. In their minds, they *own* the day. And now NYC, a town the previously loathed for it’s liberalism, diversity (its gays, jews abd muslims) and permissiveness, is somehow “their” town.

  20. SteveMD2 says

    The more I read about hatred and its connection to religion, the more I am glad that all three of my children(now adults) are aethists.

    Religion is just an excuse to say “we’re better then the other person because of our God”

    And the other person says the same. And then they pass the who to hate hat around. Religion basically is a mix of superstition, ignorance, stories from a time of almost universal ignorance, when religous leaders ruled the roost.

    And even though I am nominally Jewish – my wife is Jewish and Friday nights at the temple we joke are calloed widows nites, the whole trash could be replaced with one man – a Jewish Rabbis statement.

    “love thy neighbor as thyself”. And if you look at the history of christianity, it looks like it, even more then Islam, has been the curse of the western world.

    And yes there are great christian religious people. But we should make all churches nothing but social justice groups, helping the poor, infirm, sick, spit upon etc

    Sometimes I think that America really is a sick nation. All the ignorance and hatred that abounds here in the name of God, most of the time.

    We should all be ashamed.

    BTW, I happen to know Matthew Shepards Parent. When he was murdered they were living in Saudi Arabia, he works for oil companies. And they said that all their Saudi Neighbors were most supportive and helpful, and none of the what I’ve heeard from some Americans, where his parents are blamed for his killing, or “it was all a hoax”

    The sooner we get the next generation to look at religion as the tie of the present to a hatefilled and ignorant past, the better off we will be.

    Sorry to the MCC, UCC, UU,Evangelical Luthrans, parts of the Presbyterian churches, Jewish Reform and some Jewish conservative.

    And if there is a God, and an afterlife, I’m sure he will accept all the people who follow that Jewish Rabbis “love thy neighbor as thyself” into Heaven.

    And btw, His name was Jesus of Nazareth.

    He is probably rolling over in his grave over the hideous crimes that have been committed in his name. Which includes hitler, who btw was born and baptised Catholic. And has yet to be excommunicated by his church/.

    Because it was his church that gave the world the 1000 year hatred of the Jews, which he leveraged to power and 50 million died.

    No wonder the catholic church is dead in Europe, and dying in Latin America. And don’t let them clobber you with their “rigth to life campaign aagainst abortion.

    That just their smokescreen to hide their most hideious of crimes.

    Which also included the christian crusades against the Muslim world from 900 to 1500.

    40-50 million were murdered. Of people whose own Jesus’ key accomplishment was to stop the various tribes from murdering each other.

  21. George says

    As long as there is a single commenter who shows the balance and good sense of a KevinVT, I won’t completely give up on gay people as political thinkers. He’s the Lot among this Gomorrah.
    Oh, and Tank told someone to “go hug a Muslim”, just as “Grabbinnewscom” told me to go hug a Palestinian in an earlier thread. Case closed! Tank is his own claque on here.

    ♂, Max, and others weirdly bring some other agenda to this forum. I have never heard anyone argue for so-called Moral Equivalence, but I have heard this shorthand from neocons who think that imperial Israel (or sometimes even good ol’ Uncle Sam) can never, ever do wrong.

    ‘Islamophobia’ can only refer to a form of bigotry, namely that of making preëmptively negative and unjust judgments on the of Islam as a whole. Say what you will about the religion—that does not change a thing.

  22. TANK says

    That’s a lot of nothing you’re saying, george. A lot of nothing on a par with “christophobia” for anyone who criticizes christianity. You’re the borg. There’s no intelligent reasoning with you. Facts simply don’t matter to your evaluations of faith.

  23. josepe says

    i lived then in staten island and never believed in conspirators but i lived it and it was to hard not to believe it was orchestrated by government there is no way people will make me think other wise, i was not very political then and i started reading many books to make sense of it, and none of the books written tell the real story of how it was, they always clean the story and make you think of all of our “fallen heroes” as they put it, but this fallen heroes half of them were fabricated and the other half didnt live to tell you what really went in that day.
    i know i’m sound like i’m rambling but the truth was not what it was told

  24. HK says

    “Wow. The enemy of gay people is not Islam. It is fundamentalist bigots who cloak their hatred of us in Islamic terms. Just like the fundamentalist bigots who cloak their hatred of us in Christianity.”

    You are severely mistaken if you think hatred of gays, and violence, are not at the core of all three abrahamc religions. They are FUNDAMENTAL to the religions.

  25. ratbastard says

    America has many misfits (myself included) who have the perfect right to complain (legitimately or not) 24/7 about how bad they have it in America. The cacophony sometimes is deafening. Anyone else see the irony in this?

  26. ratbastard says

    And I remember 9/11/2001 like it was yesterday. At exactly the time those hijacked planes took off from Boston Logan I was sipping a cup of coffee and watching planes taking off from Logan, which I had a perfect view of from a highrise building 1 mile away. True story. I’m sure I saw the hijacked planes taking off.

    The incompetence and what I believe is criminal negligence shown by some of those in authority responsible for our safety (all well paid and well financed) is unforgivable. It’s scandalous higher ups never have been criminally prosecuted.

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