1. Wes says

    What a bunch of bullsh*t. If you think Clinton would be out there swinging for gay marriage as president, I want what you’re smoking.

  2. Rod says

    I can’t think of a more helpful ad for Republicans to win the White House in 2012. Sew dissension in the ranks of the Democrats. That sound you here is a bunch of Republican strategists laughing their heads off.

  3. Zlick says

    Sew dissension? Um, it’s already there. I truly wish someone with a spine would run against Obama in the Dem primary. I have come to hate that man with a passion barely less rivaled by your average Tea Partier. I don’t know why: He’s every bit the fraud, liar and jellyfish I always knew he was. Seeing it in practice tho … I cannot vote for him again.

  4. Adam says

    The speculation that Hillary would have done something different, or faster, on gay rights is certainly just that. She, her husband, and probably Barack will all be in the “for gay marriage after retirement” club.

  5. Brad says

    I think Hillary has bigger balls than Barack can ever claim to have. I think her work as Secretary of State has shown her as a strong leader and that’s what we need.

  6. Philo says

    Definitely a propaganda ad that could have been made in the bowels of a pro-GOP group. It only helps them.

  7. says

    Adam is 100% right. Meanwhile, points to Zlick for comparing himself to a teabagger before anyone else had to, and for learning their language: “barely less rivaled.” But Zlick’s right that there is already dissent and chaos in the Democratic Party. Still, a primary challenger probably won’t help things for us or our goals.

  8. veg says

    President Bill Clinton and his wife were one of the people who got us into this mess in the 1st place:

    1) Bill Clinton was the president that started DADT and his wife didn’t say a word.

    2) Bill Clinton didn’t support ENDA in either of his terms.

    3) Bill Clinton signed the law that forbade stem cell research.

    4) Bill Clinton led a war in the Gulf, for Christ sake.

    5) Bill Clinton and his wife failed national health care in a way that influenced the way President Obama pursued health care.

    Hilary Clinton has not come out and said forcefully “I support marriage equality, I’m against DADT, and I’m for ENDA.

    The Clintons, like most mainstream Democrats, are only for LGBT rights up to a point.

    But they are more for these rights than Republicans.

    Even more than the Clintons and the Obamas, the entire system of paid political patronage and money-takers running the nation is what is the real problem. Corporate control over politics through a variety of means (including political contributions) feeds centrism and conservatism, dampening what is perceived as risky. The Clintons and the Obamas’ handlers do not want to risk catering to LGBT interests in a way that could turn off independent voters. This approach “worked” in Bill Clinton’s time (he was elected twice). But the landscape is different and President Obama’s handlers don’t understand that if he does the same thing he may lose far more than his Democratic presidential predecessor did.

  9. Cory says

    VEG: You fail to remember that the Republican controlled congress went into a witch hunt in 1994 regarding gays in the military. Bill Clinton wanted to protect those serving in the armed forces to continue serving, so in working with Republicans they were able to agree on DADT. Clinton DID NOT instate that by his own regard. The same applies for DOMA.

    I hate when people blame Clinton when these policies were a direct reaction to the RNC’s rabid witch hunts.

    Also, Bill Clinton did not lead a war in the Gulf, as Obama, he inherited a war that he had to finish. These are all Republican talking points, do some research. I do not know about stem cell research, but I do recall Clinton working with First Lady Nancy Reagan to further research. I mean to offense but much of what you wrote is incorrect.

  10. says

    Hillary ABSOLUTELY has condemned DADT for years, and was a cosponsor of ENDA in the Senate.

    True, her stated position on marriage equality is no better than Obama’s…but she was more honest about it during the campaign than he was.

    However much she might not have been different than Obama on other issues, I’m convinced she would have kicked Pentagon ass over their resisting ending the ban [rather than caving to them as Obama did even before he took office]….both to teach the boys in brass it’s not her first time at the rodeo and to atone for her husband’s failure in lifting it in 1993.

    [And anyone still claiming that Bill “gave us” DADT and DOMA is simply spitting up the rewrite of history by Obama’s campaign….that’s really worked out great for ya, hasn’t it.]

  11. Chris Daley says

    @Cory – you either don’t know how to use Google or you’re intentionally rewriting recent history.

    While Wikipedia isn’t right about everything, it is a good source on this issue. On DADT:

    “Congress overrode Clinton by including text in the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1994 (passed in 1993) requiring the military to abide by regulations essentially identical to the 1982 absolute ban policy.[12] The Clinton Administration on December 21, 1993[14] issued Defense Directive 1304.26, which directed that military applicants were not to be asked about their sexual orientation.[12] This is the policy now known as “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”.

    On the ’94 Republican takeover of Congress a year later:

    “The Republican Revolution or Revolution of ’94 is what the Republican Party of the United States dubbed their success in the 1994 U.S. midterm elections,[1] which resulted in a net gain of 54 seats in the House of Representatives, and a pickup of eight seats in the Senate. The day after the election, Democratic Senator Richard Shelby of Alabama changed parties, becoming a Republican.

    The gains in seats in the mid-term election resulted in the Republicans gaining control of both the House and the Senate in January 1995.”

    Your assessment of each Presidents’ war record is equally ridiculous.

    To the larger issue, the Obama administration has been light years ahead of the Clinton administration (which was years ahead of any previous administration) on LGBT rights. I know it isn’t fashionable to point that out in some small, insulated segments of the online LGBT community, but it is still true.

    Pretending that a Hillary Clinton administration would have been/will be different than an Obama administration on these issues is pure fantasy.


  12. says

    Ok, the Obama V. Hillary debate is over. Rehashing the 2008 primary battle is old, tired, and bitter. The closest any of you “Hillary or nothing” people will get is possibly bumping her onto the ticket as VP in 2012.

  13. TampaZeke says

    MICHAEL, Clinton may not have “given” us DOMA but he certainly hitched his wagon to it when he loudly and proudly bragged about signing it into law during his campaign for his second term.

    Don’t be angry that people are attaching him to it when He himself once encouraged having his name and legacy attached to it.

    “This is Bill Clinton and I approved this message.”

    Don’t say it if you don’t mean it.

  14. Tofer david says

    The Hillary haters can never seem to move on. We fault those that hate gays and lesbians but breed hate in a all other forms.

  15. joe says

    I was a Hillary Hater in 2008, but I’ve grown to like and admire her. That said, it’s insane to thinkshe would even dare to run against a sitting president within her own party, who also happens to be her boss. Ain’t gonna happen. Ever. And I could never support such an insurgency within the Democratic Party. She knows it would tear the party apart. My prediction is that she will run in 2016. And I’d vote for her.

  16. AERES says

    Never missing a chance to comment on a Hillary post – and as someone who championed her for President since 2000 – I for one DON’T think she should run.

    Let all the Obama folks – you know, the ones who were so graceful when Hillary dared to challenge their chosen one – endure 8 years of dashed hopes. Hopes plenty of pragmatic people understood a long time ago were wildly out of synch with reality.

  17. AERES says

    @JOE – good to read.

    Though as someone who was in those trenches in 2008 – I can’t help but be mildly annoyed by all these people (particularly Dems) suddenly having this “come to Jesus” moment re: Hillary.

    Amazing what kinds of clarity can set in after the Kool-Aid has worn off.

  18. says

    @ Zeke, Mon Frere: you know that by correcting some misstatements I don’t ignore/forgive other facts. I’d wager there are far more who deepthroated the Obama campaign Kool Aid that DADT and DOMA were Clinton’s IDEA than know about those scummy Dick Morris ads. Yep, Clinton should never have endorsed them, and should still apologize for them, but another fact is that, despite the bots, not only has Obama NOT caught up with the amount of GOOD Clinton did for gays, but seems to be working very hard to surpass the bad he contributed to. Two words: “September 13th”—that’s the next day the ODOJ is scheduled to go into court and defend DADT AGAIN.

    And who can forget that Obama Wan Kenobi gave Mrs. AntiChrist the most important job in his administration…where she’s done at least as much for gays as he has with his far broader powers.

  19. natedog18 says

    It should have been Hillary!!!!!! Please Please Please Hillary resign and run in the 2012 primary! I think many would reconsider after being duped by a man who can give a great speech (via teleprompter)

  20. JT in the Army says

    I caucused for Obama in Iowa, voted for Obama in Oregon’s primary and voted for Obama in the general election.
    After his failure to go forward on any of his promises for LGBT Americans, why shouldn’t I consider replacing my Commander-In-Chief for someone who would?

  21. Dave says

    Because a primary challenge against President Obama from his Secretary of State would hand the Presidency to the GOP. It would be stupid.

  22. Dave says

    What promises did he make and fail to follow through on? Do you even remember what he said? He did not say that he would allow us to marry nor did he say that we would serve in the military. If you heard him say that it was only in your head. Post a link to the statement. It does not exist.

  23. Dave says

    In fact if anybody can find a tape of him saying either of those things, I will suck Tank’s dick on State and Madison at noon.

  24. JimSur says

    Hillary will not challenge Obama for the Presidency.

    But here’s an idea that is gaining traction…. Biden and Clinotn switch jobs. The 2012 Democratic Ticket is Obama-Clinton and Biden becomes Secretary of State in 2013.

    This would add some freshness and excitement to the Democratic ticket in 2012 with the opportunity to elect the first women as VP.

  25. AERES says

    @DAVE – its established fact that he ran to the left of Hillary in the ’08 primary on gay rights.

    She offered pragmatic incrementalism and had a proven record of delivering & supporting LGBT issues.

    He offered grandiose speeches and platitudes regarding equality and had (and continues to have) virtually NO record of delivering.

    And yet the LGBT community flocked to him.

    And now to hear the uproar these last two years – well – its just pathetic how people react when the wool is pulled from their eyes.

  26. says

    The Gay Rights movement is responsible for its achievements — not some straight Lady Bountiful.

    Straights do nothing but stand in our way.
    Those who imagine the situation would be otherwise with her in charge are seriously deluded.

  27. A Hillary Supporter, Still says

    As KFLO and Jimsur said, the best strategy for the Dems in 2012 is an Obama/Clinton ticket, much stronger than Obama/Biden.

    Then in 2016 Hillary is in the catbird seat to run for Prez. Now that’s an idea that will have Repubs crying out loud as they jump from tall buildings.

    But what to do with Joe Biden? Maybe he’ll switch over to Secy of State, or retire, but he has to go gracefully.

  28. says

    Listen up. Nobody was more Team Hillary than me. I got started in activism because of a letter I wrote to Hillary about how inspired I was by her. I made the front page of the Review Journal because of my struggle to raise money from strangers to go to Denver as a Hillary delegate. I ended up meeting her top staff and being vetted because I was one of three people in the running to introduce at the convention (the twink won that one).

    I say all that to say, there’s no way Hillary would ever mount a challenge to a sitting Democratic President. And I think all of you left over Pumas need to stop hatin’.

    I would LOVE to see her as Obama’s Vice-President in the next term!

  29. Runiel says

    Sadly, Hillary Clinton will never be the President of the USA.

    Heterosexual men won’t vote for her because she’s a woman but not a not a babe. Most heterosexual women won’t vote for her because she’s not “young-looking” and emaciated or botoxed. A majority of gay men and Transgenders won’t vote for her because she’s not as pretty as they are. Another block of gay men won’t vote for her because she has a va-jay-jay. Bisexuals (as usual) don’t give a damn either way. Lesbians might root for her, but only if she tones down all that caked make-up…

    Just sayin’ …

  30. Tom H says

    This is all a silly of the 2008 primary debates.

    The REAL question is: How much of a chance does Obama have of winning reelection?

    If the election were held today, the answer is clear.

  31. niles says

    I will never forget the strident voices here in 2008 condemning Hillary and her supporters. Fine, you got your empty suit in the White House, congratulations. His approach is to preemptively capitulate on all issues. People on all parts of the spectrum do not want a power vacuum as president – they want someone who will take charge and kick ass when needed – to stand for something. 2008 should have been Hillary’s year and her time to step up to the plate. Instead, she was thrown aside in the trashbin by a bunch of idiotic and obssessed fanatics chasing a hazy and false dream.

  32. Joe says

    I really like Hilary (though I never supported her or Obama during the primaries and was too undecided to vote in my own), but I really don’t think she would have moved anymore than Obama has.

    She always played it safe to the polls and I suspect she would have done the same if elected. However, I think her inaction would have stung less because we expect Hilary to be a centrist/make very few risky decisions. With Obama, we really believe he was different, and we were all wrong.

  33. Dani says

    Maybe Obama is disappointing for gays in America; you were expecting too much from that man. He’s got to compromise with politicians in Washington, DC: the political game. But do you really think that voting for republicans or not voting will improve the situation for gay rights in America? I really don’t think so; it will be the opposite: the return in the dark ages, the rise in racism and religious extremism. Doing it that way will be the victory for the homophobes; and you’ll have a part of responsability in it. You’ve got no other choice, as an homosexual, to vote for a democrat; especially the left ones or some with good records for gay rights.
    If republicans are back in charge; you can be sure gays will suffer more; America will suffer more ( for sure, new wars to come: they are not the one to die in it; for them it’s just young americans and they don’t care ).
    Sorry for my poor english; but i’m not an English-speaker.

  34. Houndentenor says

    I think it’s hilarious that anyone thinks we’d be further along on gay marriage or gays in the military by electing the other half of the team that gave us DADT and DOMA. Sorry. I think that would be exactly the same.

    Obama is going to have a struggle in 2012 and so would Clinton had she been elected. The economy sucks as a result of 30 years of bad decisions and policies (both on the part of government and big business). But a primary fight will sink Obama as it has every other president who had to fight within his own party to be renominated (Carter, 1980; Bush, 1992; et al.)

    The good news for Obama is that the GOP field is not just weak but a little absurd.

    BTW, isn’t it funny that a dentist picked the Hilary picture showing her teeth so prominently? She does seem to practice good oral hygeine in that picture.

  35. justiceontherocks says

    If the presidential election were held today, Obama would win resoundingly. Don’t let the “how does he compate to God” poll numbers fool you. He loses only if there is a complete economic collapse (possible but not likely) or the GOP comes up with a candidate who sells the voters on her/his ability to create an economic miracle (also possible but very unlikely).

  36. says

    Must be a slow news day. I’m glad she is our Secretary of State. Let’s cross that bridge when it’s time. Republicans are now saying President Bush(The son)was a great President…
    for who? The Military Industrial Complex! Obama has been our President 2 years… and Chaney/Bush for 8 years. Most of the crap was
    began under Bush. I just hope that in November… we keep going in the RIGHT Direction, instead of the Right-Wing Direction.

  37. InExile says

    If we are lucky she will run otherwise we will end up with a republican again. Obama is a one termer period. She will not run against him but hopefully O will bow out with approval ratings at 10% by then. We need Hillary’s leadership and experience!

  38. ty says

    This is an attempt (probably by a Mormon) to split the vote and hand the election to Romney, plain and simple.

  39. MarkDC says

    If not Hilary then who?

    Talk about who SHOULD run instead of gnarling on each others fragile damaged pysches like the angry arch faggots you are.

    Seriously. Every comment thread on every Gay blog is nothing but internalized twisted anger hurled against each other.

  40. Cory says


    Wiki is not a source of material to reference. In fact your comment is inaccurate. Instead of insulting me on the Internet why don’t you engage me civilly? The facts are the facts. Clinton never set out one day to enlist DADT, it was in response to the RNC and later the RNC controlled congress that was using political tactics in outing LGBT men and women who were risking their lives for the very freedoms you have today.

    Blaming one man, one president, for passing such legislation is ignorant. Please get YOUR facts right before attempting to slander me.


  41. Snousha says

    All of you that keep saying that Bill Clinton is NOT responsible for D.A.D.T is just plain ignorant. HE SIGNED IT IF his heart was in the right place he would have VETOED IT!

    That is all!

  42. Cory says

    SNOUSHA: Read up on it. It was either let the Republicans keep discharging those who serve our nation or find a common ground. The Republican witch hunt would not agree to open policy. Clinton wanted to keep LGBT men and women from serving, so in a compromise with the Republicans DADT was established making it illegal for any one to be asked about their sexual orientation, and for those serving to remain quiet regarding their sexual orientation. If Clinton did not work with the Republicans, many more would have been discharged in further investigations as it was not illegal to ask servicemen and women if they were gay.

    Please people, read on this issue. It is not black and white. Clinton worked with those who wanted LGBT men and women serving in the Armed forces to be outed, and unfortunately to come to a resolution DADT was instigated. It was NOT instigated out of no where by Clinton, it was a result of talks with those who opposed gay and lesbians serving in our military.

  43. nic says

    it is “sow” not “sew”. just sayin.

    were hillary to run, i would vote for her. obama turned out to be too much of a pussy. and, he is dragging the whole party down with him.

  44. SNOUSHA says

    Cory, Please Baby, I understand you just love The Clinton’s because if that be the case.Then don’t hold against Obama what the D.O.J went to court to defend D.O.M.A It’s all policy driven. POLITICS key word!

    Bottom line I don’t care what you say. Just like he lied about Monica giving him head. He signed D.A.D.T STOP giving him a pass because this is all obvious that many of you DID NOT want Obama ANYWAY!

    I wish he just resign and just move on. Him and his family will be fine and we all will be sold a bill of goods either it be Hillary, or anyone else. All of a sudden he’s a fucking failure in 22 months. I guess none of the past white presidents never lied ,or kept all they’re promises if that be the case!

    It’s really whatever to me. If you think Hillary and anyone else is going to give you what you want…


  45. Cory says

    Snousha, believe me I don’t like the Clintons. In fact I hate most politicians. :)

    I just generally don’t like it when people blame Clinton for DADT when it really wasn’t all his fault. It was a culmination of many variables. I didn’t mean to offend. :)

  46. Tad says

    Clinton would have made a far better President than the epic failure we currently have in the White House currently occupied by Messiah Dumbama and Michelle Antoinette!