1. says

    considering that the leading cause of death for males 15-30 in Utah is SUICIDE, and the majority of those suicides are Mormon, I’m rather puzzled by this. sex before marriage is “devastating” – right. and gay suicides aren’t, because Mormons have no problem with their sons offing themselves at a disproportionate rate – they can merely baptize them after death.

  2. bobbyjoe says

    Since the Mormons like having babies so damn much, how ’bout they spend all their time baptizing them and leave everybody else’s dead relatives the hell alone?

  3. Jeff says

    You go along in life assuming everyone has the same experiences. I always assumed my younger brother would learn about sex the same way I did, in school. The when he started asking me strange questions, I realized I needed to have “the talk” with him.

    In certain third world countries they keep people down and under control by not allowing them to be educated. Can you believe that the same thing is actually happening in America?

  4. nick says

    Jeff- oh yes- an entire political party and its adherents are fierce advocates of keeping people uninformed, ill-informed, paranoid and frightened so that their fairy-tale god is the only one who can grant salvation to these folks.
    Umerica-ya gotta love it

  5. Paul R says

    @Steve: Nice. I will use that again and again.

    Salt Lake City is the creepiest place that I’ve even been in the US. So white. So awful. Dating a “non-practicing” billionaire Mormon a few years later was worse. Turned out that every other word he said was a lie.

  6. TJ says

    “With friends like that…” BKT – what is your point? Education, to be comprehensive, would naturally include both the “good” and the “bad.” It would not just be “sex positive,” talking about how sexual attraction and activity are natural, or that masturbation is okay a la Jocelyn Elders (I’m hoping I remembered the name of the ousted Surgeon General correctly). It would be about telling kids that you can get pregnant the first time you have intercourse. It would be about the risks of unprotected sex as well as the limits of protection’s effectiveness (e.g., you actually have to use it every time, condoms can break, etc.). I saw nothing wrong with Moss’ point. If you are going to say that sex outside of marriage has consequences, you have to what those consequences are, positives as well as negatives.

  7. Steve says

    Marriage has no place in sex education. Period. You can get pregnant in a marriage too. And it’s not always a good or desirable thing.

    Yes, they need to be told about STDs and such too. But from a scientific and medical perspective. Not to force guilt and shame on them because that’s what religion dictates.

  8. RONTEX says

    Yes, agree with Moss’s comments as well. I definitely want my son and daughter to know “all” the aspects of sex and then make there own “informed” choices. Let’s face it, sex is fun and they’re going to do it so give them the knowledge and tools to be safe.

  9. JC says

    problem solved – go to google – “channel 4 sex ed” –its all there sex and relationship education – UK public service broadcaster.
    Can’t believe in the USA in the second decade of the twenty-first century CE, ignorance is a virtue?

  10. TJ says

    STEVE – my point about marriage was in the context of the apparent debate. Married or not, having sex can have consequences. All should be discussed. Abstinence only tells kids to wait until marriage. Okay. Then, why? Or why not? What is the evidence for and against taking that position? And most importantly, if you do have sex, how do you minimize risk?

    The Waxmen study showed that abstinence only programs were not better at preventing negative consequences such as unplanned, unwanted pregnancy. But more importantly, it showed that those kids were less likely to know what to do when temptation occurred. They were less likely to know how to protect themselves. Given that kids WILL be tempted, pure intentions or not, it seems more knowledge would be better than less. Or none. Fact is, whatever we intend to do in the future, when temptation in the present occurs we go for pleasure in the moment rather than loftier, future-oriented goals. It’s why watching some mindless show on tv always wins out over that great documentary you recorded on the DVR months ago. You need to have a plan in order to resist temptation. And plans benefit from information, because you can then give reasons and implement solutions.

    But for the sake of argument, I’d say that finding oneself pregnant within an established relationship, legitimized by marriage, with the understanding that unprotected sex might lead to pregnancy and starting a family, might have fewer issues than a situation that began with, “What was your name again?”

  11. Dale says

    My friends 13 year old nephew got a girl pregnant. When he talked about it with his father and uncle he explained to them that the girl and him only had sex once.

    Education would have been nice to prevent the pregnancy.

  12. Snoopy says

    No wonder Utah is one of the highest ranked in watching pornography. All that trying to be good and repression of sexuality leads to additive behavior. If you are allowed to be who you are, this doesn’t usually happen.

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