1. atomic says

    If these homophobic nations and its people are so insistent on clinging to 12th century attitudes, perhaps we should help them along by bombing them back into the 12th century, as they’re so fond of excusing violence and crimes against humanity in the name of tradition and moral religious teachings.

  2. Oliver says

    First of all, many of these homophobes are a bunch of hypocrites. Years ago I had a male roommate who’s boyfriend was the Ambassador to Iran (Hussein something or other)and he kept an apartment in San Francisco (Russian Hill) and played around with all the boys.

  3. says

    it really puts things in perspective, eh? despite the utterly overwhelming culture of legalized violent-hatred in some other nations there are still LGBT people within them that are Coming Out, Living Out, standing up to be counted.

    and then we have gay white grown adult males here in North America….who continue to give excuses for not Coming Out to anyone other than the man they’re tricked into blowing them.

    stunning, eh? that despite the massive progress of north america there are still people who refuse to take advantage of what freedoms we have here. and that overseas where the climate of hate is astonishing high….there are still people risking it all to Come Out.

    no wonder some people choose to ignore this in order to make anti-Islam or anti-Africa remarks. it’s easier to do that than to acknowledge the truth that despite being a White American Man, they don’t yet have the orbs to live with the same courage as a great man gay africans. and to a racist, that’s gotta hurt.

  4. Rin says

    Colonialism is not necessarily responsible, many of the interpretations of Islam, Christianity, and Judaism that people hate so much are cultural interpretations that were enabled or exist in order to gain acceptance by the people being “conquered/colonized”.

    Female genital cutting, for example, is attributed to Islam as it is not proliferated by Islamic practice to nations outside of Africa, but it generated in African cultural practice that predated either Islam or Christianity.

  5. Jeff R says

    Well, at least unlike five years ago the United States is finally on the right side of these issues at the UN. The last administration routinely voted with these walking-out nations on LGBT issues.

  6. Xavi says

    @KIWI, very valid point regarding privileged, closeted gays in our midst. They have an obligation to rest of us and should recognize the unbelievable challenges faced by other LGBT communities around the world.

    An adult gay white male in the US with some degree of material comfort has a responsibility to be OUT.

    Of course, this should not stop anyone from expressing well-deserved criticism to regimes around the world that oppress their LBGT communities. Hiding behind Islam or “cultural norms” to excuse violence and discrimination against our brothers and sisters is unacceptable.

  7. Rovex says

    Basically they dont think there is any other sexuality other than straight. Being gay or another ‘alt’ sexuality is just a deliberate act of willful sinning and therefore a criminal act.

    These people are in the dark ages because it suits then. They can make nuclear weapons and super tall buildings, but cant understand simple biology.

  8. Zlick says

    KIWI, I’m with you all the way, but – with all due respect – this one’s a bit of a stretch. Is there any topic you won’t try to connect with a beratement of closeted men? I think they’re cowards, too … but it’s not necessary to make every subject about that one issue. And I don’t believe that’s the issue here.

    I almost have to wonder why you didn’t comment yesterday on the post about saving the beached dolphins with something along the lines of, considering that homosexual behavior is well documented in dolphins and not a single one of them is in the oceanic closet, don’t the jerks in North America who won’t come out of the closet feel shamed by comparison to these brave mammals of the sea?

  9. says

    ZLICK – dolphins don’t have socially-ingrained anti-LGBT prejudices keeping them closeted.

    it’s just one of those realities – people here in north america, ADULTS< GROWN UP ADULTS, give excuses for not coming out and Living Out – excuses that amount to, “well, uh, it’s hard”

    well, duh. but at what point does a grown man stop giving excuses and start being real?

    a great many gay men in north america are not Out, not because of some actual threat to their wellbeing or job stability – it’s just a threat to their vanity and ego. they’ve hidden for too long and have developed an insecurity that manifests as “pride” in their Act.

    people are coming out in places where they can be put to death and we have people here on this continent who are refusing to come out because “they want the neighbours and co-workers to think that they’re a Real Man”

    what utter tripe.

  10. D.R.H. says

    I try to be fair-minded about Muslims and assume that they are a decent people but after reading this I can only think, f*ck off you bunch of camel f*ckers.

  11. says

    “Muslims” are not the reason that the US has a high LGBT YOuth suicide rate. Muslims are not the reason that there is anti-gay discrimination written into law and policy in more than 30 States.

    Muslims are not the reason that you guys were, and some still ARE, living with one foot in the Closet.

    before you get angry at Muslims, take a good look at the Christofascist nightmate that is the USA>

  12. Rick says

    @Oliver and QJ201 As one who has enjoyed the fruits of the Islamic world (no pun intended–OK, pun intended–LOL), I have to say that people in the West just don’t understand the culture. “Gay” really does not exist in most Islamic countries–you see, “gay” really IS a Western invention.

    And those of you who are trying to force “gay” on other cultures are just missing the boat.

    I have no doubt, Oliver, that your story is absolutely true. Bisexual behavior is RAMPANT in the Middle East–among men, at least–far more so than in the West. In fact, I have found that it is the easiest place in the world to get laid–you don’t even have to seek out “gay” places or “gay” people–just make eye contact with a guy who looks interesting and he will usually get the message…..and there is a good chance that he will take you up on your offer if you are reasonably attractive.

    In a lot of ways, this is so refreshing a change from all the “gay”/”straight” BS of the West. You have to be discreet in the Middle East, but if you are, the guys you really want are much more available than they would be in the West

    And what makes this cornucopia available is, of course, the separation of the genders in Islamic societies. Men socialize almost entirely with men (including at worship time), have much more intimate friendships with other men than is possible in the West, and women virtually never have sex outside of marriage, so the only option available to most guys other than their wives is other guys–and they don’t even have wives as options, obviously, until they get married.

    So some of you can go on wailing about all the “oppression” in the Middle East and elsewhere in the Islamic world…..the rest of us will just enjoy its many enticing pleasures…..and not be the least concerned about “gayness”

  13. Rick says

    And allow me to add that I have had plenty of luck cruising and having fun even in countries like Syria, where, as some are just now learning, the secret police are everywhere–and were no doubt watching me, as one of the few Americans who has visited Syria in recent years (I only saw one other American on my visit in ’07 and very few other Westerners, period). The point is, they could easily have arrested me, but they did nothing….and the locals I was with did not seem the least bit concerned about what they were doing, either.

    Now, sub-Saharan Africa is another matter. I have traveled extensively there, too, but have never once been approached by another man for sex or even picked up a hint of interest–even though I have been approached by a few women, oddly enough. So I am not sure what to make of that, except that whatever homosexual activity does exist there is incredibly well-hidden.

  14. Derrick from wherever says

    As usual, THANK YOU, Little Kiwi. Thank you for calling out bigotry and racism among those who are pompous enough to think they are free of it.

    You will be accused of “defending homophobes,” but with you that accusation can never work–it’s ridiculous. You’ve been fearless in speaking out against homophobia, misogyny, and racism.


    …and I swore I’d never post on this blog again.

    But you may be to harsh on that evil-azz Nazi named Rick. I think you make him wet himself…with urine too.

  15. Excuses, Excuses says

    I am so very tired of reading the excuses from third world governments blaming all of their self-destructive and inexcusable human rights violations on “colonialism.” Colonialism ended a half century ago — two and a half generations ago.

    It’s ridiculous for people who were born after it ended to keep blaming it. It’s as ridiculous as Greece blaming its economic crisis on “Soviet oppression.”

    Everyone has rights, and many third world governments have decided to violate the rights of individuals in a savage and inexcusable way. It’s their own choice, their own decision and their own responsibility. Period.

  16. Rick says

    @David Ehrenstein Muslims are being pushed off the world stage? Hardly. It is the fastest-growing religion in the world and the countries in which it is practiced tend to have the highest birth rates. And thanks to feminism, birth rates in Europe have plummeted at the same time….so you might actually be looking at a Republique Islamique du France in another generation or two, certainly not what you would like……I don’t know how Jewish you have to be to harbor the delusional idea you just expressed.

  17. Zlick says

    Thanks to feminism? Way to totally discredit everything you just wrote.

    Little Kiwi – we must hail from different parts of the world. Or, more likely, that plus you study the subject, while I just observe. It’s very true the most cosmopolitan places also tend to be the most provincial – but from my perspective of having lived only in New York and Los Angeles, it seems there couldn’t possibly be any gay men that are in the closet, since both cities are simply crawling with out gay guys.

    I’d also like everyone whose lives or livelihoods would not be endangered by doing so to come out of the closet … why is it you believe so many are still in?

    And hey, apparently it’s ok to be bi and homoactive in Syria. I don’t think the same can be said of Iraq. So I don’t quite think it’s a muslim thing.

  18. Rick says

    “And hey, apparently it’s ok to be bi and homoactive in Syria. I don’t think the same can be said of Iraq. So I don’t quite think it’s a muslim thing.”

    It’s everywhere in the Islamic world. I think the incidents you have heard about in Iraq recently are probably due to the American presence……and the “gay” idea that comes with American/Western culture–an idea that truly is alien in much of the world.

    I only used Syria as an example of a state that is usually considered repressive… places like Morocco and Egypt, if you don’t get hit on repeatedly over the course of a visit of a few weeks, you are either unattractive or you are just not paying attention.

    Lots of really hot, horny–and young–guys for the having in all these places if you just relax and exercise discretion….and stop thinking “gay” and forget about all the scary stories you have heard about the Arabs.

    I had heard all those stories too and was apprehensive until I began to understand how things work in that part of the world, which only comes from experience, experience that very few Americans have had…..

  19. Zlick says

    Oh yes, I’m sure that gangs of thugs went around just after Saddam’s regime was toppled, and again this week, and rounding up gay or gay seeming men by the dozens and torturing them to death because of the American presence. Thanks, you’ve just discredited everything you wrote, also.

    Let me remind you. These men were bound, their rectums sealed with glue and fed diarhetics until they burst open and died after days of agonizing pain. Yeah, American presence responsible for that.

    Thanks for playing.

  20. Max says

    What do you expect from savage, backwards animals? Those are countries people flee *from*, not flock *to*.

    Little Kiwi, you just keep living in your Western-privilege bubble believing that America and Christianity are the problem. You don’t even know how ignorant you are.

  21. Brim says

    @Rick Bottom line is that in these Arab countries homosexuals are not equal and are a second class citizen. If you step up and demand your rights you will find yourself the victim of gang rape at the hands of guards in a prison, because in Muslim (and African) culture male-male sex is legitimized as a weapon (e.g. the Iranian uprising in 2009 where a number of men contracted serious STI from being gang raped by prison guards). Rick, you cannot have the rule of law without equality under the law.

    What the East needs is a sexual revolution. Women need to be equal. Then they need a homosexual revolution. In that order, sex and then gender and gender identity need equal protection under the law.

    But the concept of equality under the law is not an Islamic principle – nor are human rights. That makes your statements part of the problem.

  22. Anthony from Kenya says

    As a gay man living in Africa, I find some of the comments on here appalling. “Bomb them back to the 12th Century”? Really? I’m sure (though I could be colossally mistaken) that that statement was made in jest.

    I work for the Gay and Lesbian Coalition of Kenya (Yes. We have such an organization) and I have been to Uganda to speak to the sexual rights activists on fighting the anti-homosexuality bill in that country so let me give you a bit of the African perspective. Culture and religion does play a big role in undermining human rights in Africa. There is a false rhetoric that homosexuality is a western import and against the African culture. I have done extensive research on this and can say without a doubt that homosexuality existed in Africa way before the west got here. People also say that it is against religion…to which I tell them…why pick out the “western import” that you find more appealing and use it to put down another “western import”? Hypocrisy?

    That said, one cannot compare the societal attitudes towards alternative lifestyles in Africa with those in the USA for example. We are not at the level people in the USA are. I am sure that at some point in time, people in the USA had almost similar opinions on homosexuality as people in Africa do now. We have a long way to go. The main thing on my job description is to spearhead the decriminalization of homosexuality process in Kenya. This is a HUGE task involving talking to so many people and with the potential of immense resistance (which I am already facing). But for true freedom to be achieved in Africa, societal attitudes have to be changed. We are working on that. The people who walked out…they are our prime targets. Ignorance and hate is something that can change…and we are trying to change it.

    So don’t bomb us back to the 12th Century. Some of us are working on changing the situation.

    By the way…in Nairobi…you WILL get hit on by a guy in the street.

  23. Yeek says

    Anthony –

    Best message of all. I wish you all kinds of luck in fighting the negativity back home and also in other parts of the world.

    People over here react badly to the situation you must face every day – and by badly I mean with extreme rage either directed at your culture or at their own. You sound like a smart guy who has moved past the indulgence of anger and is trying to create solutions.

    Hang in there Anthony.

  24. Truth v Lies says

    QUOTE: Backwards, ignorant people resent being reprimanded and simply cling harder than ever to their positions out of spite. Gentle persuasion doesn’t work too well either. They cannot be changed.

    I wonder if the pink mafia realise you are talking about them>

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